The Official Samsung 360 720P bug thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 11:06 AM
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there's any one out there with a 360 who's NOT experiencing the problem (of course not, why would they visit the 360 720p PROBLEM THREAD)?

Are we all hooked up the same way (e.g. DVI)? Any chance it's a copy-protection type thingie? I could try with component but I really don't think that's the issue.

Just a few thoughts.

=NLK=
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post #182 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nlk10010
there's any one out there with a 360 who's NOT experiencing the problem (of course not, why would they visit the 360 720p PROBLEM THREAD)?

Are we all hooked up the same way (e.g. DVI)? Any chance it's a copy-protection type thingie? I could try with component but I really don't think that's the issue.

Just a few thoughts.

=NLK=
As I've posted before, I have a 360 and experience the problem on ONLY ONE of the two OTA ABC affiliates I'm able to receive. One (WWAY-DT, Wilmington, NC) broadcasts in full DolbyD5.1 and comes in perfectly with no sync or artifact problems. The other station, (WPDE-DT, Florence, SC) is using Digital ProLogic II for their sound and is cosistantly out of sound sync on any HD network feed that is not live. Interestingly, the sync problem disappers when they go the commercials, which are up-converted to digital but are SD and 4:3 format.
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post #183 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 12:34 PM
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I think most of us are experiencing the problem through D*, not OTA, although I certainly understand that any problems with reception are serious ones. From your message, perhaps it's the audio encoding that's doing it (for both OTA and otherwise); e.g. are the "Rebel Billionaire" and "Nanny911" shows audio-encoded differently than "House"?

Inquiring minds love a puzzle.

=NLK=
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post #184 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nlk10010
I think most of us are experiencing the problem through D*, not OTA, although I certainly understand that any problems with reception are serious ones. From your message, perhaps it's the audio encoding that's doing it (for both OTA and otherwise); e.g. are the "Rebel Billionaire" and "Nanny911" shows audio-encoded differently than "House"?

Inquiring minds love a puzzle.

=NLK=
I should have noted I AM having the same problems with D*s transmissions of ESPN-HD. I'm not eligible to receive Fox or any other Networks from D* because of local availability (not Network owned). The problem does seem to be transmission however, because I experienced the same sync problem on an interview show on HD-Net on one occasion and they're full Dolby D5.1. Just that one time though. One other observation: Discovery HD on D* comes in a variety of sound formats -- DD5.1 and ProLogicII and there's never been a sync problem in either format. I am convinced there's some digital "flag" missing in the transmissions that's causing the problem. Most of my local stations seem to be very casual about their broadcast standards for HD at present. Last night for example the local CBS afilliate did not include some digital flag with the broadcast of CSI - NY and the Dolby decoder never switched on and the HD broadcast went on with no center channel! Sound (ProLogic Stereo) on the SD transmission of the same program was fine. So, to me, it seems that HD is still just a poor cousin to SD as far as the broadcast engineers maintaining any kind of top notch quality control.
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post #185 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nlk10010
I could try with component but I really don't think that's the issue.

Just a few thoughts.

=NLK=
Don't even bother, I'm using Component and have the same problem. With other experiencing the same problem with other receivers, I wonder if D* is sending some kind of flag not supported by these troubled receivers.
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post #186 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PDPnNJ
Don't even bother, I'm using Component and have the same problem. With other experiencing the same problem with other receivers, I wonder if D* is sending some kind of flag not supported by these troubled receivers.
Same here - lucky for me though, I get good OTA reception of all my locals and I don't watch ESPN (not a big sports fan).

For the record, I've only had the box for about 2 weeks. I haven't had any spontaneous reboots but I do get audio dropouts that seem to be resolved by changing channels.

I thought about asking D* to exchange this box for the RCA but for obvious reasons have decided not to. IF I had paid full price for this box (I got the $99 deal that included the dish upgrade, multiswitch, install, etc.) AND IF I watched ESPN AND IF I couldn't get HD locals OTA I would be quite pissed as well.

Nonetheless, D* needs to acknowledge this problem (with some consistency, I might add) and address the issue.

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post #187 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 02:23 PM
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Would it be silly of me to hope that the reason they are delaying on this is because they will start swapping them out with MPEG 4 boxes immediately?

:)
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post #188 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 02:26 PM
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Quite.
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post #189 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WILDCAT NATION
Would it be silly of me to hope that the reason they are delaying on this is because they will start swapping them out with MPEG 4 boxes immediately?

:)
Probably, but there's nothing wrong with being silly. :)

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post #190 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 07:04 PM
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You know....a temporary fix for this would probably be for D* to convert the 720p signals to 1080i...at least until they figure out the problem. D* has no problem downrezing the HD (some 1080i is 1280x1080 instead of 1920x1080 on D*), so why couldn't they temporarily make all HD channels 1080i?

I know the 720p lovers would hav a problem with this, but at least temporarily, everything would work, in theory.......


JT
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post #191 of 609 Old 01-06-2005, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nlk10010
I think most of us are experiencing the problem through D*, not OTA, although I certainly understand that any problems with reception are serious ones. From your message, perhaps it's the audio encoding that's doing it (for both OTA and otherwise); e.g. are the "Rebel Billionaire" and "Nanny911" shows audio-encoded differently than "House"?

Inquiring minds love a puzzle.

=NLK=
There are quite a few of us experiencing this problem with OTA ABC stations.
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post #192 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by dvdguyjt
You know....a temporary fix for this would probably be for D* to convert the 720p signals to 1080i...at least until they figure out the problem. D* has no problem downrezing the HD (some 1080i is 1280x1080 instead of 1920x1080 on D*), so why couldn't they temporarily make all HD channels 1080i?

I know the 720p lovers would hav a problem with this, but at least temporarily, everything would work, in theory.......


JT
Not going to happen. They'd have all the people that own 720P native displays up in arms, just like you said. They're not going to rob Peter to pay Paul...I'd be happy if they tried though, if it did indeed fix it temporarily.

I have to say that this has been very frustrating to me, to the point that I've been considering inviting Time Warner back to see if they can get a line to my house. But then I think about the lousy set top boxes that I've had with cable in the past. Both the Moto and the SA boxes that I've had are years behind this Sammy box, despite its issues. If D* would just fix this I really would not be able to come up with a single complaint about their product.
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post #193 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vin
Same here - lucky for me though, I get good OTA reception of all my locals and I don't watch ESPN (not a big sports fan).

Hey, we are neighbors and we share the same views on the subject (except the sports fan bit where I'm a big on it ;))

OTA reception is saving me big time with this problem.
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post #194 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 06:56 AM
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"D* would just fix this I really would not be able to come up with a single complaint about their product."

Likewise, but from left field, I wonder if this has anything to do with three (3) channels on a transponder, all kidding aside could be 720P does not do well under that condition with our receivers? I'm no expert on this so I'm sure shortly someone will tell me how wrong I am on this.

From D* Show press release by mid year we'll need new receivers anyway to do the (HD) MPEG 4 stuff along with a new antenna. I wonder what will become of the 101, 110, and 119 birds, all SD I guess?

If the new stuff is LIL HD only, I'm not interested as I have all that OTA now and "it works"! They never actually said ALL their HD offerings on the new system, just the top 12 DMA's to start. Which I guess does impact our issue and if D* will fix it or just hope we all go away?

Just wondering out loud............... YMMV

It is "WOW" TV!
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post #195 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dvdguyjt
You know....a temporary fix for this would probably be for D* to convert the 720p signals to 1080i...at least until they figure out the problem. D* has no problem downrezing the HD (some 1080i is 1280x1080 instead of 1920x1080 on D*), so why couldn't they temporarily make all HD channels 1080i?

I know the 720p lovers would hav a problem with this, but at least temporarily, everything would work, in theory.......


JT
What makes you think this problem is not related to their bandwidth compression algorithm ?
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post #196 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 06:59 AM
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well now I'm a little confused. My biggest problems with my box are the OTA reception I am getting from my local ABC station (WLOS-DT), and also the occasional problematic movie feed from ESPN-HD. Sports are fine, films and sitcoms are not. When they go to commercial, I get the sidebars and the 4:3 and everything is fine including audio. Am I correct in understanding that this box does this for D* broadcast of ABC also? And how is it some people's OTA reception of ABC-HD is okay. if that is the case? Are the stations doing anything different? Regardless, I am scheduled to get a replacement for the Samsung from D*. Maybe I will shop around and try to find a Sony HD-300. Anybody tried one of those?
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post #197 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by calvinb
well now I'm a little confused. My biggest problems with my box are the OTA reception I am getting from my local ABC station (WLOS-DT), and also the occasional problematic movie feed from ESPN-HD. Sports are fine, films and sitcoms are not. When they go to commercial, I get the sidebars and the 4:3 and everything is fine including audio. Am I correct in understanding that this box does this for D* broadcast of ABC also? And how is it some people's OTA reception of ABC-HD is okay. if that is the case? Are the stations doing anything different? Regardless, I am scheduled to get a replacement for the Samsung from D*. Maybe I will shop around and try to find a Sony HD-300. Anybody tried one of those?
I swapped out my Samsung for the Rca DTC-210 and the WLOS-DT and ESPN-HD problems went away. However, I am having a problem with the RCA box locking up, so I mught have to do a swap there.
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post #198 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Apps1
I swapped out my Samsung for the Rca DTC-210 and the WLOS-DT and ESPN-HD problems went away. However, I am having a problem with the RCA box locking up, so I mught have to do a swap there.
Uh oh.... I have a new DTC-210 sitting in my foyer waiting to replace my 360 courtesy of D*. I'm wondering if it will be worth the hassle.

C
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post #199 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Christobalito
Uh oh.... I have a new DTC-210 sitting in my foyer waiting to replace my 360 courtesy of D*. I'm wondering if it will be worth the hassle.

C
I think there are alot of RCA's out there working fine. Give yours a try. I hope swapping out the unit will resolve my problem.
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post #200 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 08:06 AM
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I'm happy some folks are receiving RCAs and they're working, but I'd prefer to have a fixed 360. It's just easier. I guess I'll consider that option if this drags on much longer.
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post #201 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aldamon
I'm happy some folks are receiving RCAs and they're working, but I'd prefer to have a fixed 360. It's just easier. I guess I'll consider that option if this drags on much longer.
Exactly. I prefer to keep my 360 as well. After a month of getting it, I started having some problems with it, and D* actually sent me a replacement LG model. Before getting the LG hooked up, the 360's problems seemed to just go away, so I decided not to keep the LG and sent it back. I like the 360 and its features and such. Is the RCA or Sony pretty much the same, in terms of features/connections/etc? Anyone know?

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post #202 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 12:11 PM
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I've been using the 360 for about a month and am reasonably satisfied. I get the local HD channels OTA as D* doesn't yet offer these in Phila but I have had zero issues with these HD OTA channels. I do see some audio sync and video problems with ESPN HD during commercials and some video replay, but it's not bad. Haven't had a chance to see movies on ESPN HD yet to see if the problem exists there, but don't these stink anyway? The other satellite HD channels, Discovery etc, look great to me.
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post #203 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 12:42 PM
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I have both a Samsung 160 and 360. The 360 has the problems and the 160 doesn't. So can be different between the two to cause the problem? If something I really want to watch on ESPN I go the bedroom for glitch free viewing.

Fred
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post #204 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 12:43 PM
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Received an RCA DTC-210 as replacement for my 360 yesterday, but D*'s computer outage is preventing it from being activated.

Meanwhile, TimeWarner cable showed up to install HD box. Now I'm getting all the HD locals (except my cheap ABC affiliate), just in time for the NFL playoffs...too bad the AFC wildcard games are on ABC.

Anyway, watching DiscoveryHD and HDNet on each feed clearly shows me the results of D*'s overcompression of their HD feeds. I'm considering cancelling the bulk of my services with D* and just keeping the bare minimum active, so I can continue to get NFL ST every year.

Will let everyone know if my DTC-210 has any problems, since many of us are receiving them as replacements. It's menu system is faster than the 360, I can tell that much so far.
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post #205 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 01:22 PM
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"Will let everyone know if my DTC-210 has any problems, since many of us are receiving them as replacements. It's menu system is faster than the 360, I can tell that much so far. "



I got my DTC-210 replacement 1 week ago. My ESPN-HD and ABC-HD(OTA) are gone. That is great except for the fact that it locks up 3 to 4 times per day, but only when watching OTA. They are shipping me a new one.
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post #206 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 01:46 PM
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Good to know. I'm too far away to get any good HD OTA signals, so perhaps my DTC-210 will remain stable. Crossing my fingers.
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post #207 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sunra
I've been using the 360 for about a month and am reasonably satisfied. I get the local HD channels OTA as D* doesn't yet offer these in Phila but I have had zero issues with these HD OTA channels. I do see some audio sync and video problems with ESPN HD during commercials and some video replay, but it's not bad. Haven't had a chance to see movies on ESPN HD yet to see if the problem exists there, but don't these stink anyway? The other satellite HD channels, Discovery etc, look great to me.
I'm sorry, but it seems like you're trying to play down the problem. I was where you are in September and I also ignored it. ESPN HD was fine except for commercials and movies, so why sweat it right? Well, now we're in January and a lot of us have more 720P content being delivered by satellite and it's messed up because of the same issue. So even if you can't see the problem often, it's there so why not call and add to the pressure? What would it hurt?
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post #208 of 609 Old 01-07-2005, 08:34 PM
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This problem is starting to really piss me off. Fox and ABC HD broadcasts are a joke. The audio sync is like 15 secs off and the glitching is like watching frame by frame. What is the deal with DirecTV that they dont address this problem. Has anyone had any luck in directv totally replacing there box?
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post #209 of 609 Old 01-08-2005, 05:02 AM
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Same problem here with fox and espn. I will call today to complain and see if they will swap out my 360 for the RCA.
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post #210 of 609 Old 01-08-2005, 06:17 AM
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Same problem in northeast PA where our feed comes from NYC. I signed the petition and sent an email complaint at the Samsung website. In the complaint I mentioned this thread and the fact people were returning their Samsungs for the RCA unit. I don't know if anyone will read it (or care about it) but hopefully every little bit helps....

ozzie
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