OTA/ QAM HD STB with Native Passthrough? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I looked over Ken's nice HDTV STB summary thread, but too often couldn't find critical pieces of info on a particular HD STB.

Here is what I want:

Musts:
OTA ATSC HDTV reception
Component output
*Native resolution Passthrough capability

Strongly desire:
Cable QAM DTV tuner (unscrambled channels)
DVI/HDMI output

Optional:
Analog cable/OTA tuners

So, the basics I want are simply OTA ATSC with component video out with native resolution passthrough. Too many boxes I've seen require a switch to be set for the output resolution. I want the output resolution to always match the channel I am watching, automatically switching to 1080i output from 1080i channels and 720p output for 720p channels (and 480p/i for SD channels).

Recommendations for STB's out there? Older models available on Ebay are OK, too.
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post #2 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 07:59 AM
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LG 4200A would do everything you listed...

Matt
Please don't PM me with technical questions that should be posted in the forum.
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post #3 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 10:48 AM
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Nope.

The LG LST-4200A I believe is the only current one that meets your requirements.

It is the best current STB out there. I know. I've had one for over 5 months and love it.

Goes online for about $285 + Can be found at www.*********************/

I got mine from there. Ordered over the phone, and had it in about 4 days. No hassles.
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post #5 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 11:32 AM
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Do yourself a favor and look no further than the LG LST-4200A. It meets all of your mandatory and optional requirements. It's priced right <$300 and it just works. I have had zero problems with my LST-4200A. It has better screen geometry options for 4:3 content than other STBs, better channel guides, better connectivity and resolution output options, etc., etc., etc. Stop the search now, buy this box and be happy. You won't regret it.
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post #6 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 11:46 AM
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I'll fourth that or what every can't beat the 4200

BJM
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post #7 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 01:23 PM
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I have one question for LST4200A: can it support QAM for channels over 125? I've tried Samsung SIR-T451. It can only search cable channels up to 125. Most of my cable HD channels are over channel 125.
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post #8 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxbat121
I have one question for LST4200A: can it support QAM for channels over 125? I've tried Samsung SIR-T451. It can only search cable channels up to 125. Most of my cable HD channels are over channel 125.
I am not exactly sure how this is supposed to work, but my local cable channels go up to at 800 on "THEIR" channel map.

That being said, my locals are broadcast in the channel 700 range, again, on "THEIR" channel map.

But MY LG LST-4200A "MAPS" them as 76-7, 76-8, 114-3, and 114-4 respectively.

I DO NOT think it matters how high THEY MAY map their channels as the LG will RE-MAP them anyway.

I USED TO receive almost ALL of my digital cable channels until they scrambled most of them. Most of them were mapped on their map between 200-500, but on my LG they were mapped between digital 80-115 and on most of those channels they were mapped as subchannels.

For example while channel 82 would have one digital channel, say ESPN HD, it would be mapped as 82-1. But channel 83 would be mapped from like channel 83-1 all the way up to channel 83-18. It would be a mix from HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, all the way to some obscure digital channel like CNNfn or something.

So if your local cable Co. is offering locals in the clear(Clear QAM) on say channels 668-676 on THEIR channel map, don't fret. The LG would just receive those channels and re-map them is all.

I actually receive every channel, but they are SCRAMBLED, and are MAPPED that way. Even though the Scrambled channels are remapped, you can tell which channels are PPV and VOD(for things likes MLB,NHL, and NBA season passes).

Also, my music channels are mapped on Adelphia in the 400's and I receive each and every one of them mapped in the channel 79 range.
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post #9 of 38 Old 12-23-2004, 08:50 PM
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The previous model, the 3100A, does the HD, QAM, passthrough, and has component and DVI. I have only used the OTA on mine, as I have sub basic cable and they seem to have blocked anything over channel 23 out on the pole. Anyway, bet you can find one of these on e-bay.
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post #10 of 38 Old 12-24-2004, 07:19 AM
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I just looked at the specs for the LST-4200 and am still amazed that the boxes only have one RF input.

Are you guys who are connected to more than one source using an auto RF switcher? It seems odd to me that there are so few boxes in this catagory that are designed to take more than one input.

Peace,

DM
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post #11 of 38 Old 12-24-2004, 11:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by DavoM
I just looked at the specs for the LST-4200 and am still amazed that the boxes only have one RF input.

Are you guys who are connected to more than one source using an auto RF switcher? It seems odd to me that there are so few boxes in this catagory that are designed to take more than one input.

Peace,

DM
I do not know any auto detecting RF coax switches. If you do please post a link as that would be a great addition to this otherwise terrific HD STB.

Radio Shack has a A/B switch that has a Ir remote control unit. We stock slide and push button A/B coax switches that we recommend to our customers who want to receive OTA and cable services.

-Robert
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post #12 of 38 Old 12-24-2004, 07:01 PM
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So when using an A/B switch, does the unit have to rescan the channels?

Peace,

DM
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post #13 of 38 Old 12-24-2004, 07:34 PM
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Everyone seems so excited about the LST-4200A. But I'd like a box with a hard disk.

Ideally TiVo would have a box with all the extras, like ATSC, QAM, etc. But I have very little faith in TiVo the company any more. They seem to be clueless as to innovative new hardware products.

So the question is, what is a full featured box like the 4200A but with a hard disk? I know that Sony has announced an HD PVR but my understanding is that it is still vaporware.
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post #14 of 38 Old 12-24-2004, 09:18 PM
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LG also makes a version of the 4200A with a hard disk and PVR recording and it has two independent RF inputs for cable and OTA, so no A/B switch is needed withit!
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post #15 of 38 Old 12-24-2004, 09:43 PM
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Hi Joxer,

What model LG are you referring to?

Their website is pretty bad (but most websites are equally bad). They make an LST-3410A, but based on the "specifications" I can't even tell if it has 2 RF inputs.

http://us.lge.com/Product/proddetail...e=1&perPage=10
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post #16 of 38 Old 12-24-2004, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DavoM
So when using an A/B switch, does the unit have to rescan the channels?

Peace,

DM
No
When you switch the 4200a from cable to ota or visa versa it ask you if you want to rescan. You just said no and it keeps what was in memory.

BJM
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post #17 of 38 Old 12-24-2004, 10:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joxer
LG also makes a version of the 4200A with a hard disk and PVR recording and it has two independent RF inputs for cable and OTA, so no A/B switch is needed withit!
It's the LST-3410A. The LG LST-3410A is a QAM/ATSC PVR, with a 120 gb HD. No DVR recording fee is required and it has two separate inputs for Cable and OTA.

Yes, as Martin says, you don't need to rescan when switching the inputs as the LST-4200A has non-volatile memory that stores your previously scanned channels.

-Robert
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post #18 of 38 Old 12-25-2004, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the Forum has Spoken...looks like the consensus is the 4200A- thanks, guys! Time to list my like-new/CIB DTC100 on Videogon...

I really want to keep my DTC100, but the Panasonic AE700 is one of the few projectors it doesn't work with :(.
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post #19 of 38 Old 12-25-2004, 11:27 AM
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Any word on a CableCard QAM version of the 4200A?

All CC STBs/DVRs have been delayed, so I was wondering if anyone had any updates.
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post #20 of 38 Old 12-25-2004, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rgb
Well, the Forum has Spoken...looks like the consensus is the 4200A- thanks, guys! Time to list my like-new/CIB DTC100 on Videogon...

I really want to keep my DTC100, but the Panasonic AE700 is one of the few projectors it doesn't work with :(.
Rgb,

Like I stated in an above post, the 4200A is the way to go, as of 12/26/04. NO QUESTION.

But, do you live in a sever multi-path area and are you patient?

The reason I ask this is because by sometime next year, hopefully before March of 05 but I doubt it, the new "5th Generation Chip LG STB'S" should be released. These new chips" are SUPPOSED TO work WONDERS in areas where people suffer from multipath problems, and are supposed to be an overall stronger tuner(although the 4200A IS WITHOUT QUESTION the STRONGEST Tuner on the market. Least amount of signal needed in order to get a lock on a station).

Now this is all SPECULATION on this forum and anywhere else mind you. Although the 5th generation chips praises have been made by people that others call reputable(BUT I don't know them, so they could be CRACKPOTS for all I know) that word still hovers over it, SPECULATION.

Also, even though it is "supposed to"(there are those two words again) be released by the end of the 1st qrt of next year, odds are it will be longer. Most new items are released WELL AFTER they were supposed to. My guess would be at least until late May or June.

This is just something to consider. This new model would have the 5th gen chip and MAY even have more than 1 RF input on it, who knows. My guess is that the new box will go for between $250-$275 as prices continue to drop on newer and better equipment.

BUT YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH THE 4200A. It is a great box!! I know people will say you could wait forever and never get any new equipment, ever because the market is in a constatnt state of change. What is new and great today is old and outdated tommorow. You can't keep up with the Jones's when it comes to electronics(unless you want to live in the boxes the stuff comes in, and your wallet is empty, and you are in debt up to your eyeballs).

This is just something to think about.
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post #21 of 38 Old 12-25-2004, 01:05 PM
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Also, about the LG LST-3410A with 120 GB DVR.

There is a long thread about that unit in the HD recorders section of the forum. IT is LONGGGGGG!!!

Anyway, I was initially going to buy that unit(IT DOES HAVE 2 RF INPUTS for both cable and antenna), but people have HAD SO MANY ISSUES WITH IT, I decided to pass on it.

Way to many headaches on that model. The only way I would even consider getting it is if it was going for about $350+tax or something, probably less.

Not worth all the problems for the cost of that unit(currently I believe $799 online and elsewhere. Originally went for $999 at it's original release).

About Tivo. I am not sure about this, but since they have an EXCLUSIVE DEAL with DirecTV, I wonder if in the deal it FORBIDS them to have a box that can receive QAM(clear or otherwise) since D* is in DIRECT competition with digital cable. There might be some wording in the contract that forbids them to do so.

They can make them for regular cable obviously(and digital, but with no QAM decoding).
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post #22 of 38 Old 12-25-2004, 08:14 PM
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If you're avoiding the 3410a, you don't know what you're missing.

I've had one for a bit over six months now and haven't had a single issue, nor have most others running firmware revision 1.15.

I personally would never see HD network programming without it; solely because of it I've been able to watch every episode of Gilmore Girls, CSI: and ER this season in HD...
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post #23 of 38 Old 12-25-2004, 09:32 PM
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Just curious, did you have to send the unit OUT to get the update or did you mail it to LG and had them do it, or neither?

If it is neither, then enjoy your unit.

If it is either of the first two, no one should have to go through that kind of crap to enjoy something. The unit should work right out of the box, especially at that price.

The units "issues", fixable or not, were just too many for me. WAY TOO MANY bugs.

Hopefully the newer units(or current ones) are better suited, but since this is a brand new tech, it will be at least a couple(possibly more) of years before the bugs are worked out IMHO.
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post #24 of 38 Old 12-25-2004, 10:03 PM
 
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My experience with the LST-3410A is that if you have 1.15 firmware you have a reliable HD PVR.

The 3410A OTA tuner is not quite as selective as the 4200A, otherwise the LST-3410A is very much the same as the LST-4200A, with a 120 gb HD.

-Robert
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post #25 of 38 Old 12-27-2004, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AkaStp
As you say, there is little or no correlation between the channels numbers the cable company uses and where they end up in the 451 or LG. After scanning he'll need to review the captured channels list to see where they all ended up. In the Denver area Comcast puts the local HDs in the 650s on their receiver but they up at 18-2, 90-2, 91-1, 91-2 and 119-1 in the 451 and LG. The 18-1 channel (CBS) is a bit flakey so that may mean the 451 has a problem at the bottom end or I may have a faulty receiver.
I understand the channels mapping thing. That's why I looked up the frequency vs analog channel numbers. All my local HD channels (except Fox and CBS) are located > ch. 131 frequency. That means either 451 or 4200 has to be able to map those channels to 131.1 etc. However, when I did a channel scan, 451 can only scan up to channel 125 as most analog TVs will do. There is no way for me to access any channels over 125 from 451. I'm wondering if LST4200A will do the same thing. I guess the simplest test is try to tune to channel number 131, for example, and see what happens. In 451, it will jump right back to last channel it tuned to or go to channel 1. That means it will not accept that channel as valid channel.
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post #26 of 38 Old 12-28-2004, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by STEELERSRULE
Rgb,

Like I stated in an above post, the 4200A is the way to go, as of 12/26/04. NO QUESTION.

But, do you live in a sever multi-path area and are you patient?


This is just something to think about.
No problems with multipath for me. My patience is getting better ;).

I am in no big rush, since I am using a myHD card as my main HD tuner as a stop gap. Not that this is "roughing it" in any way ;).

My MDP-120 card with DVI daughter card meets all my requirements except QAM tuning. They added Native resolution passthrough in a software update early this year. I threw the card into a "free" PC I had laying around, so I got the equivalent of the HDTV PVR box for about $375 (myHD plus DVI card). This was purchased last year.

I still plan to get an HDTV STB due to the WAF, though. For the same reason, I have a Panasonic Rp82 DVD player, even though my HTPC's do DVD's quite well. I have basically mirrored functionality between a set of HTPc's and STB's- the HTPC's for my tweaking and optimizing hobby, and the STB's for the wife and visiting relatives.
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post #27 of 38 Old 01-10-2005, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Foxbat121
I understand the channels mapping thing. That's why I looked up the frequency vs analog channel numbers. All my local HD channels (except Fox and CBS) are located > ch. 131 frequency. That means either 451 or 4200 has to be able to map those channels to 131.1 etc. However, when I did a channel scan, 451 can only scan up to channel 125 as most analog TVs will do. There is no way for me to access any channels over 125 from 451.
The 4200a is not mapping. There are no channels above 125. It is the cable company that is mapping. The only channels that you will not be able to get are the scrambled channels.
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post #28 of 38 Old 01-10-2005, 08:51 PM
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For those inquiring minds who want to know - The 4200A will tune both NTSC and ATSC channels up thru 135...
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post #29 of 38 Old 01-11-2005, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonmx
The 4200a is not mapping. There are no channels above 125. It is the cable company that is mapping. The only channels that you will not be able to get are the scrambled channels.
With all due respect but I don't think you understand what I'm try to say here. First, check this chart out: http://www.cabl.com/restaurant/freq0.html

CATV Channel 125 is in frequency range of 798 ~ 804 MHz. Most of my Local HD channels (unscrambled) are in the range of 834 ~ 850 MHz (confirmed by using my cable STB). If a QAM tuner does not let you tune to CATV frequency over channel 125 (or over 804MHz), it is useless. So far, Samsung SIR-T451 falls into this useless category. I can't find LG box locally and hence don't know if it works or not. On another thread, I read the LST-3510a, LG's DVD player+OTA+OQM tuner, lets you tune up to channel 134. That sounds promising.
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post #30 of 38 Old 01-11-2005, 09:24 AM
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As others have said if the 3410 has FW 1.15 you'll be fine. I've had mine for awhile now and love it, plus any unit you buy now should definately have 1.15 on it. You can go into the menu section to check it out first to make sure (I had the guy at BB hook it up to a TV to check mine first too).

John

Quote:
Originally posted by STEELERSRULE
Just curious, did you have to send the unit OUT to get the update or did you mail it to LG and had them do it, or neither?

If it is neither, then enjoy your unit.

If it is either of the first two, no one should have to go through that kind of crap to enjoy something. The unit should work right out of the box, especially at that price.

The units "issues", fixable or not, were just too many for me. WAY TOO MANY bugs.

Hopefully the newer units(or current ones) are better suited, but since this is a brand new tech, it will be at least a couple(possibly more) of years before the bugs are worked out IMHO.
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