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post #91 of 122 Old 07-07-2008, 03:52 PM
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They must be talking about CC on the TV which won't work with progressive on. I just went through all this with someone on VideoHelp. It will definitely send CC over HDMI at any resolution when using the decoder in the recorder not the TV decoder.
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post #92 of 122 Old 07-26-2008, 04:53 PM
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hitting cable /power/ menu buttons in that order.. it should bring up a screen with hd settings and closed caption...should beable to turn it on there
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post #93 of 122 Old 03-20-2009, 04:40 PM
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I came here to ask, "Can I hear the sound, and see closed captions, at the same time?"

But now I see there are lots of even more confusing issues re cc & HD. Is there a simple answer to my original question? A complicated answer? (Any answere at all?) Thanks!
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post #94 of 122 Old 03-20-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assumed Name View Post

I came here to ask, "Can I hear the sound, and see closed captions, at the same time?"

I know that quite a few people have publicly indicated the only way to see captions is to hit the mute button on the remote control. (This misconception was conveyed on "Life" earlier this week.) However, that's not the case.

You'll need to figure out which device is able to decode captions for you. If you're watching television over the air or with a direct caption feed, or if analog caption data is being transmitted to your TV via an inexpensive, non-HD set top box, then your TV would be the device that would decode captions. If not, if you're using an HD set top box and an HDMI cable, then the captions need to be decoded by the set top box.

Assuming your TV needs to decode the captions, if you go into the Menu system for your TV, you should be able to find settings for closed captions and to turn them on all the time. If your remote control has a CC button, you can then use the CC button to turn them off temporarily if you need to.

If your HD box needs to decode the captions, then you may need to check out a thread that I had set up to help people figure out how to enable captioning from different set top boxes at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036172

Some of the set top boxes are very difficult to work with, and the company may not provide the user manual for the box. That lack of information is why the above thread was set up.


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post #95 of 122 Old 03-22-2009, 04:45 PM
 
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I have read all of the posts on this forum, and I did not see my particular problem in any
of the previous posts.

OK, I have what I think is a unique CC problem on all FOX HD channels that I can get. I am going to give as much info as I can, and I am really frustrated to say the least that I cannot watch FOX HD prime time programming in my living room. Here are the facts:

I have two Sanyo HDTVs. One 26" and one 32". The 26" is just shy of a year old. The
32" is about two and half years old, and this is the TV that has the problem.
I watch HD over the air.
I get two local FOX network stations at my house, KVHP-DT and KBTV-DT. 90% signal
and 70% signal respectively.
CC is set to CC1.
CC is fine on both channels when watching anything other than FOX prime time
network programming.
CC during prime time reverts to a small box big enough for one letter at a time which
flashes for a mili-second one letter at a time.
Every now and then, the CC box will extend out for the last couple of words of a
sentence.
I was able to recieve one other FOX network station KRIV-DT out of Houston the other
night and the CC did the same thing as the two locals. So all three FOX stations are
affected.
All other networks and channels are fine. Local FOX stations are fine except during
network programming.
I have returned all CC options to default to no avail.
I have done an add on scan hoping to have the tuner "re-learn" the channel to no avail.
I have cleared the channel memory and have done a total re-scan to no avail.
I have unplugged the HDTV and let it sit for 10 minutes or so to no avail.
The 26" HDTV CC is fine, It is not affected.
Once again, all other HD channels CC is fine, and local FOX station non network
programming is fine. Only prime time FOX programming is affected.
Sanyo customer service was useless. After explaining that I get my HD OTA, they suggested I turn on the CC on the cable box.
Local FOX engineers are scratching their heads, saying it is not us.
Network digital programming in SD on the sub channel is fine on the 32" HDTV. It just affects the HD programming.

So what could FOX be doing that is different than all of the other networks?
Fox engineers are scratching their heads, and I'm going bald from pulling my hair out.
Any ideas?
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post #96 of 122 Old 03-24-2009, 10:19 AM
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Check the firmware version in your Sanyo and then call them and ask if there is a newer version. You may or may not be able to upgrade it yourself.
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post #97 of 122 Old 03-24-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat lady View Post

I have read all of the posts on this forum, and I did not see my particular problem in any
of the previous posts.

OK, I have what I think is a unique CC problem on all FOX HD channels that I can get. I am going to give as much info as I can, and I am really frustrated to say the least that I cannot watch FOX HD prime time programming in my living room. Here are the facts:

I have two Sanyo HDTVs. One 26" and one 32". The 26" is just shy of a year old. The
32" is about two and half years old, and this is the TV that has the problem.
I watch HD over the air.
I get two local FOX network stations at my house, KVHP-DT and KBTV-DT. 90% signal
and 70% signal respectively.
CC is set to CC1.
CC is fine on both channels when watching anything other than FOX prime time
network programming.
CC during prime time reverts to a small box big enough for one letter at a time which
flashes for a mili-second one letter at a time.
Every now and then, the CC box will extend out for the last couple of words of a
sentence.
I was able to recieve one other FOX network station KRIV-DT out of Houston the other
night and the CC did the same thing as the two locals. So all three FOX stations are
affected.
All other networks and channels are fine. Local FOX stations are fine except during
network programming.
I have returned all CC options to default to no avail.
I have done an add on scan hoping to have the tuner "re-learn" the channel to no avail.
I have cleared the channel memory and have done a total re-scan to no avail.
I have unplugged the HDTV and let it sit for 10 minutes or so to no avail.
The 26" HDTV CC is fine, It is not affected.
Once again, all other HD channels CC is fine, and local FOX station non network
programming is fine. Only prime time FOX programming is affected.
Sanyo customer service was useless. After explaining that I get my HD OTA, they suggested I turn on the CC on the cable box.
Local FOX engineers are scratching their heads, saying it is not us.
Network digital programming in SD on the sub channel is fine on the 32" HDTV. It just affects the HD programming.

So what could FOX be doing that is different than all of the other networks?
Fox engineers are scratching their heads, and I'm going bald from pulling my hair out.
Any ideas?

Mallego's suggestion is a good one.


I think that the Fox stations in your area are sending out the caption data in a slightly off-beat fashion that is causing problems for the decoder in your older TV but not your newer TV. If your older TV can be made to mimick the functionality of your new TV though a firmware update, then you might not see the decoding problem any longer.

These Fox stations are likely to be causing problems for other TVs as well, however.

One way of fixing the problem may be for the local Fox stations to use the EEG HD caption legalizer. That device "legalizes" caption data that isn't being sent out properly so that all caption decoders can read the captions. If you go to the EEG web site and look at the documents that they have online, you can see that the company identified more than 33 ways that caption data can be transmitted improperly, and which their device is designed to correct.

The Fox station in DC has had problems with very delayed captions for syndicated programs for years and still hasn't been able to work them out as of last week. The engineer at Fox station WBFF, however, long ago realized that there were problems getting clean captions onto the HD channels and installed the EEG HD Caption Legalizer, which fixed the problems. My DTV equipment can decode the captions for syndicated programs fine from WBFF, but not from WTTG. (I suspect it's likely that EEG may generally know more about how to fix captioning problems on the broadcast side than other companies do, so if there is something else that the station is doing incorrectly, my bet is that EEG would probably help them figure that out.)

(I don't have a financial interest in EEG or other dealings with that company.)


Dana
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post #98 of 122 Old 03-24-2009, 12:42 PM
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A long-shot, but at this point, maybe something to work with at least.

I tried to help a poster with a similar situation with a TV that would show only a small box in bottom center. I duplicated that by setting my TV to teletext (TT1) which might be happening there by accident or bad "interpretation" by your rogue TV?

Here's my post for ref.

Maybe set the rogue TV for TT1 and see what happens, or .... ?????????


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post #99 of 122 Old 03-24-2009, 02:13 PM
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FOX sends caption data as part of the encoded stream and it is just passed through at the local level. If the problem was with the network, it would be nationwide and not just local. I would call Sanyo back and try to get someone more knowledgeable that the first person you talked to.

Something else to try is to change the settings to analog captions. Both types of captions will be present on the digital channel and your set may have an easier time with the legacy captions.
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post #100 of 122 Old 03-24-2009, 02:52 PM
 
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Thanks ot all for your suggestions about the CC problem. I will attempt to see what I can do and report back when I know something definitive. Thanks again!
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post #101 of 122 Old 03-25-2009, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmulvany View Post

Mallego's suggestion is a good one.


I think that the Fox stations in your area are sending out the caption data in a slightly off-beat fashion that is causing problems for the decoder in your older TV but not your newer TV. If your older TV can be made to mimick the functionality of your new TV though a firmware update, then you might not see the decoding problem any longer.

These Fox stations are likely to be causing problems for other TVs as well, however.

One way of fixing the problem may be for the local Fox stations to use the EEG HD caption legalizer. That device "legalizes" caption data that isn't being sent out properly so that all caption decoders can read the captions. If you go to the EEG web site and look at the documents that they have online, you can see that the company identified more than 33 ways that caption data can be transmitted improperly, and which their device is designed to correct.

The Fox station in DC has had problems with very delayed captions for syndicated programs for years and still hasn't been able to work them out as of last week. The engineer at Fox station WBFF, however, long ago realized that there were problems getting clean captions onto the HD channels and installed the EEG HD Caption Legalizer, which fixed the problems. My DTV equipment can decode the captions for syndicated programs fine from WBFF, but not from WTTG. (I suspect it's likely that EEG may generally know more about how to fix captioning problems on the broadcast side than other companies do, so if there is something else that the station is doing incorrectly, my bet is that EEG would probably help them figure that out.)

(I don't have a financial interest in EEG or other dealings with that company.)


Dana

Hi Dana -

Unfortunately, the EEG box won't work during prime-time. Since the Fox "splicer" is downstream from the EEG Legalizer, anything that it fixed is replaced by data from the HD feed from Fox. It does work really well for the syndicated programming, however.

On a related note, I just got an e-mail from the chief engineer of the Fox station in Syracuse, NY asking about closed captions on the Fox prime-time programming. In it he says that "It is a result of a encoding software upgrade they (Fox) did a few weeks ago."

I guess that it's not just you...

_

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post #102 of 122 Old 03-25-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbulla View Post

Hi Dana -

Unfortunately, the EEG box won't work during prime-time. Since the Fox "splicer" is downstream from the EEG Legalizer, anything that it fixed is replaced by data from the HD feed from Fox. It does work really well for the syndicated programming, however.

On a related note, I just got an e-mail from the chief engineer of the Fox station in Syracuse, NY asking about closed captions on the Fox prime-time programming. In it he says that "It is a result of a encoding software upgrade they (Fox) did a few weeks ago."

I guess that it's not just you...

_

Thanks for clearing up that up about the role of the EEG box, Mark. Would all engineers hook up the EEG box the same way?

I'm confused, though. Are you saying there was a problem with how caption data from Fox primetime programs were formatted and transmitted nationally due to a software upgrade?

Cat Lady---I agree with spwace that it may help to force your Sanyo to show CC1 captions instead of CS1 or Service1 captions----if that's a choice that your TV has. (I can't force my Sharp HDTV to show only CC1 captions, but I *can* force my Samsung HDTV to do that, so HDTVs behave differently in this respect.) I myself have experienced that the CC1 caption data (ATSC CEA-608 captions) may be decoded flawlessly when there are problems with the ATSC-CEA-708 caption data (from the local ABC station).

Dana
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post #103 of 122 Old 03-25-2009, 02:52 PM
 
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Thank you all so much for your input. As I try to resolve the problem, I will keep refering to this thread to see what continuing info y'all can offer. Thanks.
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post #104 of 122 Old 04-03-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

That's one thing I don't understand about my new DVD player. There is no way to turn on Closed Captions in it.

I am having issues with CC not playing on my PS3 with certain DVDs. The Season 1 DVD set indicates on the box and in the menu that CC is available. However, it is not something you turn on and off in the menu. The subtitles button the remote does not turn them on either. I have it connected to my HDTV via component video cables since my Panasonic is pre-HDMI. Any other DVD or BD that can be menu or remote enabled will display the CC. Any ideas?
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post #105 of 122 Old 04-03-2009, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by FOPA View Post

I am having issues with CC not playing on my PS3 with certain DVDs. The Season 1 DVD set indicates on the box and in the menu that CC is available. However, it is not something you turn on and off in the menu. The subtitles button the remote does not turn them on either. I have it connected to my HDTV via component video cables since my Panasonic is pre-HDMI. Any other DVD or BD that can be menu or remote enabled will display the CC. Any ideas?

Hitting a DVD player's subtitle button has nothing at all to do with closed captions. It will only affect whether the subtitles are shown.

Please note that closed captions are very different from subtitles.

It's not clear that your Panasonic TV has actually shown closed captions from DVDs via the component video input or if you've only seen subtitles from the DVDs. Many people don't make the distinction between subtitles and closed captions, but it's important to do so. Your Panasonic may not be able to decode closed captions via component video input, but then again it may. Presumably you have made sure that the TV's CC1 (analog) captions are on? [If you have your TV set to display only Service1 (digital/advanced) captions, it might not show the analog captions. (The default caption mode should allow decoding of native captions on both analog and digital inputs.)]

Rarely, some DVDs that are labeled as having closed captions don't actually have them. This happened with DVDs of "Sophie's Choice" (which I've never been able to see with captions). Did you try playing the Season 1 DVD on your computer? While not all DVD software has the option to turn on captinos, the free Windows Media Player program does.

It's possible that the PS3 doesn't pass through the line 21 closed captions; there's currently no law requiring such devices to do that.


Dana
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post #106 of 122 Old 04-03-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmulvany View Post

Hitting a DVD player's subtitle button has nothing at all to do with closed captions. It will only affect whether the subtitles are shown.

Please note that closed captions are very different from subtitles.

It's not clear that your Panasonic TV has actually shown closed captions from DVDs via the component video input or if you've only seen subtitles from the DVDs. Many people don't make the distinction between subtitles and closed captions, but it's important to do so. Your Panasonic may not be able to decode closed captions via component video input, but then again it may. Presumably you have made sure that the TV's CC1 (analog) captions are on? [If you have your TV set to display only Service1 (digital/advanced) captions, it might not show the analog captions. (The default caption mode should allow decoding of native captions on both analog and digital inputs.)]

Rarely, some DVDs that are labeled as having closed captions don't actually have them. This happened with DVDs of "Sophie's Choice" (which I've never been able to see with captions). Did you try playing the Season 1 DVD on your computer? While not all DVD software has the option to turn on captinos, the free Windows Media Player program does.

It's possible that the PS3 doesn't pass through the line 21 closed captions; there's currently no law requiring such devices to do that.


Dana

Thanks for the explanation. I will try the disks in my laptop when I get home. I understand what you are saying. I think you are correct that my Panasonic is the culprit, despite the fact that this problem originally was discovered by my folks using some crappy, no-name DVD recorder connected to their Samsung plasma HDTV. I will try to find out what type of cable they are using. I think the problem with my equipment is linked to the TV, because the CC adjustments are grayed out for the component video settings. I guess I am so used to selecting English as a subtitle choice is how I am confusing them with cc. Thanks for the assistance!

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post #107 of 122 Old 04-03-2009, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOPA View Post

Thanks for the explanation. I will try the disks in my laptop when I get home. I understand what you are saying. I think you are correct that my Panasonic is the culprit, despite the fact that this problem originally was discovered by my folks using some crappy, no-name DVD recorder connected to their Samsung plasma HDTV. I will try to find out what type of cable they are using. I think the problem with my equipment is linked to the TV, because the CC adjustments are grayed out for the component video settings. I guess I am so used to selecting English as a subtitle choice is how I am confusing them with cc. Thanks for the assistance!

steve


The Samsung plasma HDTV is *very* likely not to be able to decode caption data via the component video input. The Panasonic *may* be able to do that. Don't assume just yet that it's the TV's fault; it sounds like the Panasonic isn't detecting any CC data to decode.

Remember that captions can't be decoded via the component video input if the video resolution is higher than 480i (interlaced), so if your PS3 is automatically upconverting the video, that might be why you can't get captions decoded. If you can force the PS3 to send the video at 480i, that might help.

You'll need to do some troubleshooting to figure out what's going on. If you could borrow someone's DVD player with component video and turn off progressive scanning and upconversion on the player, you could figure out if your Panasonic TV can decode captions via component video. If it can, then the PS3 device may be stripping the caption data on the component video output. As an alternative, you could use your laptop with captioned DVDs that don't have English subtitles.

Dana
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post #108 of 122 Old 04-04-2009, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dmulvany View Post

Thanks for clearing up that up about the role of the EEG box, Mark. Would all engineers hook up the EEG box the same way?

I'm confused, though. Are you saying there was a problem with how caption data from Fox primetime programs were formatted and transmitted nationally due to a software upgrade?

Cat Lady---I agree with spwace that it may help to force your Sanyo to show CC1 captions instead of CS1 or Service1 captions----if that's a choice that your TV has. (I can't force my Sharp HDTV to show only CC1 captions, but I *can* force my Samsung HDTV to do that, so HDTVs behave differently in this respect.) I myself have experienced that the CC1 caption data (ATSC CEA-608 captions) may be decoded flawlessly when there are problems with the ATSC-CEA-708 caption data (from the local ABC station).

Dana

I think the issue with Fox is that they run a VERY different affiliate/network distribution model to the other networks.

ABC, NBC and CBS distribute a network feed to the local affiliate, but that local affiliate decodes it, adds local shows at some times, and then re-encodes it. This means that the EEG legaliser could be placed just before the final ATSC encoder such that it processed both network and local caption content, as that encoder path is used all the time.

Fox doesn't do this - and instead distribute a final encode network feed to their affiliates. When the station is showing networked shows there is no local decoding and recoding going on - the streams Fox distribute are simply passed straight through to the viewer - so AIUI the closed captions, just like the audio and video, are totally untouched by the local station's equipment. The station's local encoder and other equipment is only "in circuit" during local programming when the local encoder output (which COULD be passed through a local EEG device) is "spliced" in to the broadcast chain, replacing the network feeds, so any local legaliser would only be legalising locally inserted content.

Fox take this approach to avoid every local station needing HD decoders and HD switching gear for their HD feed, and it also guarantees a level of quality for all network content irrespective of the local station's encoder, removing picture quality losses and audio metadata errors etc., and also reducing the bandwith required for distribution (as you can distribute at a lower bitrate if you don't have a further MPEG2 decode/recode process downstream - as ABC/NBC/CBS do) However it also means that any network errors are passed by all stations...
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

I think the issue with Fox is that they run a VERY different affiliate/network distribution model to the other networks.

ABC, NBC and CBS distribute a network feed to the local affiliate, but that local affiliate decodes it, adds local shows at some times, and then re-encodes it. This means that the EEG legaliser could be placed just before the final ATSC encoder such that it processed both network and local caption content, as that encoder path is used all the time.

Fox doesn't do this - and instead distribute a final encode network feed to their affiliates. When the station is showing networked shows there is no local decoding and recoding going on - the streams Fox distribute are simply passed straight through to the viewer - so AIUI the closed captions, just like the audio and video, are totally untouched by the local station's equipment. The station's local encoder and other equipment is only "in circuit" during local programming when the local encoder output (which COULD be passed through a local EEG device) is "spliced" in to the broadcast chain, replacing the network feeds, so any local legaliser would only be legalising locally inserted content.

Fox take this approach to avoid every local station needing HD decoders and HD switching gear for their HD feed, and it also guarantees a level of quality for all network content irrespective of the local station's encoder, removing picture quality losses and audio metadata errors etc., and also reducing the bandwith required for distribution (as you can distribute at a lower bitrate if you don't have a further MPEG2 decode/recode process downstream - as ABC/NBC/CBS do) However it also means that any network errors are passed by all stations...

That's really interesting. How did someone from across the pond figure this out?

The problem that I myself experience with the DC Fox station (WTTG) is with the captions for the *syndicated programs.* (markbulla, who's the engineer for both the Baltimore Fox and CW stations, *doesn't* have a problem generating intact, synchronized captions for those programs.) What this means is that instead of taping the Saturday afternoon program of "Stargate Atlantis" from WTTG, I often watch the 2 a.m. broadcast of "Stargate Atlantis" from WUVA (which my CECB can't pick up in order fr my TiVO to record it). :-( (My sleep cycle is out of whack!)

Dana
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post #110 of 122 Old 04-04-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmulvany View Post

That's really interesting. How did someone from across the pond figure this out?

Dunno - I like knowing how things work I guess - and have hung out here long enough to pick up some stuff...

Also - knowing the differences between the UK/European standards and the US standards makes life a lot easier when trying to use MS stuff this side of the pond (where Windows 7 has finally caught up to where my first OTA CECB was 9 years ago in supporting DVB Subtitles and Interactive text...)

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The problem that I myself experience with the DC Fox station (WTTG) is with the captions for the *syndicated programs.* (markbulla, who's the engineer for both the Baltimore Fox and CW stations, *doesn't* have a problem generating intact, synchronized captions for those programs.) What this means is that instead of taping the Saturday afternoon program of "Stargate Atlantis" from WTTG, I often watch the 2 a.m. broadcast of "Stargate Atlantis" from WUVA (which my CECB can't pick up in order fr my TiVO to record it). :-( (My sleep cycle is out of whack!)

Dana

If my understanding is correct then syndicated programming is replayed by the local station - and thus any Closed Captions will be inserted by them. If there are problems then it is either with the syndicated source or the local station - not the Fox network, as they aren't responsible for syndicated content?

Are stations in the US legally obliged to caption a minimum percentage of content? (Over here the main networks have to hit near 100% these days)
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post #111 of 122 Old 04-04-2009, 11:39 AM
 
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Practically all television stations (broadcast and cable), operating for more than four years, are required to closed caption practically all of their programming.
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post #112 of 122 Old 04-04-2009, 03:37 PM
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Practically all television stations (broadcast and cable), operating for more than four years, are required to closed caption practically all of their programming.

What is the definition of practically - out of interest?

In the UK it is a weighted percentage based on national audience share - meaning most terrestrial (analogue-originally) networks have to hit between 95 and 100% whilst some of the less watched channels - like the shopping channels and music channel have lower percentages to hit.

The interesting issue is with British Sign Language (which currently has to be open, not closed, apart from stations that can simulcast an interactive video stream containing it - Sky News is a notable proponent of this) - as there are similar rules for sign-language in the UK - though the targets aren't as high. All channels - including the music video channels - have to abide by these quotas - meaning you get BSL interpretation of music videos (though these are often confined to the early hours of the morning).

The BBC broadcast an overnight block of content called The Sign Zone - after midnight most nights - which contains in-vision sign-language versions of a lot of BBC current affairs, factual and some drama programmes. (It is designed for VCR/PVR time-shifting)

There are also quotas for AD (Audio Description) for visually impaired viewers.
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post #113 of 122 Old 04-05-2009, 04:26 AM
 
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What is the definition of practically - out of interest?

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/exemption..._cc_rules.html
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post #114 of 122 Old 06-18-2009, 08:15 PM
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I have exactly the same problem with FOX in Milwaukee. I have an RCA DTV L26WD26and OTA reception. Local FOX station engineer says FOX goes directly to air through a "splicer" and that local station has no control over the problem. How do we contact FOX engineering?
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post #115 of 122 Old 06-21-2009, 03:03 PM
 
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I have looked at the FOX network web site and can't find any reference to network engineering. Does someone have a web address for FOX network engineering???
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post #116 of 122 Old 03-10-2010, 05:30 AM
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another quick and easy way to access the menu screen (either in front of the unit or from remote).
1. Power off (will put device in stand-by)
2. Press menu button
3. Quickly press the up or down arrow
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post #117 of 122 Old 07-23-2010, 01:06 PM
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I have comcast running through a Motorola box to a standard TV (not HD). Everything works fine except that I don't get closed caption on just the five encore programs (there will be little snippets of CC once in a while on those channels. The Comcast service guy has been out several times, can't find an explanation - thinks it must be in our wiring - but that doesn't seem logical to me, since the problem is confined to encore channels. Any suggestions?
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post #118 of 122 Old 07-23-2010, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by basophil View Post

I have comcast running through a Motorola box to a standard TV (not HD). Everything works fine except that I don't get closed caption on just the five encore programs (there will be little snippets of CC once in a while on those channels. The Comcast service guy has been out several times, can't find an explanation - thinks it must be in our wiring - but that doesn't seem logical to me, since the problem is confined to encore channels. Any suggestions?

You're right that you need to think logically about this. To me, this sounds like a problem outside of your equipment and your house since you can see captions fine for all other programs. There may be a problem with how Encore is transmitting captions or with the satellite transmission or with how the local station is processing the captions from Encore. You have the option of filing an online complaint directly with the FCC, although you can also try calling Comcast again and asking for the local station to check their own ability to receive captions for Encore programs. Can you find out from any other Comcast customer in your area if they have the same problem seeing captions for Encore programs? Doublecheck whether they're using HD service or analog service.

One thing to remember, since you're not using HD services, is that you need to be able to see the basic captions, which are Line 21, EIA-608 captions that can be decoded directly by your TV. It's possible that Encore is sending out only the advanced, EIA-708 captions, but they are required by the FCC to send out both types of captions at the same time. If other people are able to see captions on Encore HD programs, Encore may have simply failed to realize they need to send out both types of captions for all of their programs. Or maybe there's a problem with how they're sendindg out the EIA-608 captions. (Some local TV stations have made that mistake, too, and just needed to correct what they're doing.)

It's going to be very important for whoever is investigating this to look at what's happening with the EIA-608 captions, not just the EIA-708 captions. The online complaint form may not ask for this information, so you'll need to emphasize that you're using analog services and are thus experiencing problems seeing analog captions, which are the types of captions that need to be investigated.

If you don't get results quickly from Comcast, just file a complaint with the FCC. (It used to be that you had to wait a while to complain to the FCC, but that's no longer the case.) Go to www.fcc.gov and look for their online complaint form for captions.
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post #119 of 122 Old 07-30-2010, 01:02 PM
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Thanks!

I will try your suggestions and let you know what happens.
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post #120 of 122 Old 09-02-2010, 04:12 PM
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Thanks!

I will try your suggestions and let you know what happens.

To dmulvany

I complained gain to Comcast without any help at the time. But about two weeks later the captions appeared on all the channels and have continued to be displayed. I think your idea of missing EIA-608 was the most likely explanation. Thanks again for your advice
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