Any recent 5th generation receiver chip news? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 433 Old 04-01-2005, 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
Tom, I appreciate your position, but respectfully, we do not agree. I have based my post on the more than 1000 LST-4200As my company has sold since July 2004, with only one return.

Further we have spoken to most of the customers and read the avs forum and other forums with hundreds of other satisfied LST-4200A users. In fact, the only negative posts about this otherwise terrific HD STB is regarding a anomaly, where some HD clear QAM channels can not be accessed after 8:00 PM in the San Francisco area.

TV Broadcasters buy this box in very large quantity as well as HD enthusiasts and novices.

My substantial sales statistics represent a 99.99% approval rate. I was being conservative with my 95% estimate. The facts don't lie.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technologies Dealer


We have discovered these units have two problems...

1. The units forget to stay in constant audio mode after a power failure.
2. Units will lock up if they are on and the transport stream is interrupted repeatedly (like rain fade during a storm) even if they are plugged into a UPS.

We have taught the Media resources folks at schools how to reset the units..
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post #182 of 433 Old 04-01-2005, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally posted by GSfromCT
Rich:
I don't know for sure. I am going on info from D-Luks. He posted this info titled "4th & 5th ATSC demodulators dictionary" in the old 5th generation terrestrial receivers thread here.
I wish he/she were around to comment further.

Is this the posted list you are talking about?

5th generation:

LG - LG3303 (same footprint)

ATi - T310/3

Broadcom - BCM3520/17

Oren - CAS-220

Micronas - DRX3942H (Linx )

ST (Licenced Linx technology) - STV0370

IB
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post #183 of 433 Old 04-02-2005, 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by inky blacks
Is this the posted list you are talking about?

5th generation:

LG - LG3303 (same footprint)

ATi - T310/3

Broadcom - BCM3520/17

Oren - CAS-220

Micronas - DRX3942H (Linx )

ST (Licenced Linx technology) - STV0370

IB


Yup, that is it!

It has been VERY quiet in the OTA STB area. Broadcast Flag models will have to be coming out pretty soon, or are manufacturers waiting to see what the outcome of the court case will be?
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post #184 of 433 Old 04-02-2005, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I found this interesting summary of upcoming FCC digital tuner regulations.

quoted from the text:

"There is a loophole where manufacturers can continue to sell true monitors without a DTV tuner as long as they do not include NTSC (analog) tuners, as many plasma displays and front projectors are sold today."

http://www.insightmedia.info/news/FCCTunerMandate.htm

FCC Tuner Mandate-2005 Update

3.21.2005


2005 ushers in the next phase of the FCC tuner mandate. Here is an update on what is required of manufacturers, plus an overview of how some major players plan to respond.

Under the FCC order, TV manufacturers are forced to phase in integrated ATSC tuners into roughly half of all 25 to 35-inch TV lines by July 1, 2005. By July 1, 2006, all sets measuring 25 inches or larger must include digital TV tuning. In the final phase, all other sets between 13 inches and 24 inches must have ATSC tuners by July 1, 2007.

These are the more affordably priced TVs, hitting the bread-and-butter category for TV makers, as this segment appeals to a much larger audience than larger screen models affected by the mandate last year.

There is a loophole where manufacturers can continue to sell true monitors without a DTV tuner as long as they do not include NTSC (analog) tuners, as many plasma displays and front projectors are sold today.

TV makers are concerned over the lackluster response consumers gave the integrated sets in 2004, which featured a price premium of $300 and only offered uni-directional CableCARD functionality.

Most consumers opted for the monitor version, satisfied with the set-top box furnished by satellite or cable providers, which includes a digital tuner. Now adding a $300 price premium on smaller-size sets (many selling for under $500) in order to keep compliance with the '05 FCC mandate looks even less promising to manufacturers.

Here's how some manufacturers have responded. Thomson-TCL Electronics announced at CES that it will introduce seven RCA direct-view TV models featuring integrated ATSC tuner/decoders and 480i (interlaced) Standard Definition Digital TV (SDTV) image resolution.
Greg Bosler, TTE's North America Profit Center executive VP, said the company has been working diligently to offer an affordable solution to the DTV tuner mandate and has arrived at a system that will command a premium starting for as little as $100. An entry-level RCA 27-inch integrated SDTV will start at $269, he said. Screen sizes for new SDTV models - which are essentially analog televisions with digital tuners - are 27 inches and 32 inches in standard 4:3 aspect ratios. The company said it is targeting consumers who want to replace a TV in the bedroom or the den with something that is digital, but isn't high definition. RCA will also offer HDTV monitors in 27-inch and 32-inch 4:3 direct-view CRT screen sizes.

In an effort to avoid any additional consumer confusion, Sharp is biting the bullet early in the cycle and only shipping rear-projection TV sets with ATSC and CableCARD-ready tuners. Bob Scaglione, Sharp marketing senior VP, noted that some retailers have requested only ATSC and CableCARD-ready rear-projection TV products from vendors in 2005. He added that the [retail] price delta for integrated tuning isn't that much higher, so consumers are opting for full-tuner solutions, thinking they may need the capability in the future.
Sharp said it will include ATSC tuners in all 37-inch and larger AQUOS LCD-TVs by July 1, 2005, and for all LCD-TVs with 16:9 screen sizes below 37 inches, AQUOS offers a choice of integrated tuning, or HDTV monitors.

Toshiba Marketing VP Scott Ramirez said his company will continue to carry HDTV monitors through the first half of 2005, before transitioning the line over to 100% fully integrated HDTV sets. Ramirez added: "The market being what it is, the consumer is voting for HD monitors now. If we go to 100% compliance in March 2006, as we've requested, then probably in the first quarter of 2006, most companies will completely change over to integrated." The caveat for Ramirez is in LCD and plasma sets. "In flat panel, you are at a much higher price point, where the customer is looking for the highest technology," he said. "There, I think integrated products are much more sellable." The company is looking at offering a mixture of fully integrated and monitor-only flat-panel televisions in 2005, but the majority of the models will include ATSC tuning and digital CableCARDs.

Samsung planned to phase in integrated tuning into many of its DTV direct-view and rear-projection DLP displays around the middle of last year. But, in microdisplay rear-projection models, those plans were delayed by several months. This year, any model in the Samsung line with a screen size of 36 inches or larger will be introduced as a fully integrated DTV set, said Jim Sanduski, Samsung Visual Media Products marketing VP.
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post #185 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
TV Broadcasters buy this box in very large quantity as well as HD enthusiasts and novices.

My substantial sales statistics represent a 99.99% approval rate. I was being conservative with my 95% estimate. The facts don't lie.

You do realize the statistical problem here? Your sales show that 99.99% of people who choose to purchase a receiver keep them, but your sample is not random. Your sample is only made up of people who believe that the receiver is going to work - people who don't think it will don't buy one in the first place.

Most people who live in poor locations may choose not to purchase a receiver at all - and they wouldn't be included in your survey.
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post #186 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by sregener
You do realize the statistical problem here?

I'm just skeptical that only one 1 person out of every 10,000 (99.99% approval) disapproved the product.
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post #187 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 07:09 AM
 
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Originally posted by sregener
You do realize the statistical problem here? Your sales show that 99.99% of people who choose to purchase a receiver keep them, but your sample is not random. Your sample is only made up of people who believe that the receiver is going to work - people who don't think it will don't buy one in the first place.

Most people who live in poor locations may choose not to purchase a receiver at all - and they wouldn't be included in your survey.

Not true. Many of our customers upgraded to the LST-4200A because they tried other boxes without success. Many are 60+ miles away from the transmission tower. Many have had multi-path problems so they turned to LG's LST-4200A.

-Robert
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post #188 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 07:26 AM
 
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Originally posted by vman41
I'm just skeptical that only one 1 person out of every 10,000 (99.99% approval) disapproved the product.

Sorry, I should have said 99.9% not 99.99%. Many of our 1000+ sales are to avs forum members. Would I post 99.9% of my customer who purchased the LST-4200A love the product on the same forum where I made the sales if it was not true?

Other than William's comments that have no bearing on its ability to pull in weak signals and Les who has a Dolby Digital sync problem when down-converting HD to SD and the Clear QAM after 8:00 PM anomaly in the San Francisco area no one has posted a negative experience. But we have read many independent users post excellent results.

I don't doubt that some of the many users either my company sold or other dealers sold are not satisfied with the LST-4200A and I am sure this post will encourage them to come forward, however, to knock this terrific product that is clearly superior to any other available puts a false feeling in the minds of many people that would enjoy very reliable HD reception and will not buy it. The people who are posting negatively have never even tried this product.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer
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post #189 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 07:39 AM
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Ok so you don't want to know about any problems with the units.. we have installed over 800 of them at this time..
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post #190 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 08:12 AM
 
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William, I referenced your comments on the unit and will list the details of your analysis of the 800 you have installed:

Quote:
_______________________________________________________
We have discovered these units have two problems...

1. The units forget to stay in constant audio mode after a power failure.
2. Units will lock up if they are on and the transport stream is interrupted repeatedly (like rain fade during a storm) even if they are plugged into a UPS.

We have taught the Media resources folks at schools how to reset the units..
_______________________________________________________
Before I starter ********************* 8 years ago I worked for 20+ years as a RF systems engineer for Ikegami, Nucomm and Hitach Denshi. I have a great deal of respect for you and all broadcast engineers. I know and agree with your anger over the FCC adopting 8-VSB modulation over CODFM. However, we have to live with 8-VSB modulation and the LG LST-4200A is the best ATSC tuner available. Maybe some day when the next generation ATSC tuner becomes available it will even improve on this excellent 4th generation set top decoder, but today it's your best choice.

Les, another distinguished broadcast engineer who experienced audio sync problems when down-converting HD to SD also said the LST-4200A is the best ATSC tuner available. Most consumers would not be down-converting HD to SD and those that do should not buy this box.

Finally, I must ask why would you and most other broadcasters buy this box in very high volume if it was not your best price/performance available product.

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

-Robert
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post #191 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Didn't LG say they were no longer going to make the LST-4200A?

IB
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post #192 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 12:24 PM
 
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Quote:


Originally posted by inky blacks
Didn't LG say they were no longer going to make the LST-4200A?

IB

Yes, at the current rate of sale LG will phase the LST-4200A out by June '05.

No replacement has been announced. Very sorry to see this beauty go away.

-Robert

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post #193 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 03:06 PM
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Because it has the least number of issues at this moment but as you have said its being dropped so we are searching for a replacement unit.

Samsung had a great RF front end for the time in the T-160 and T-165 but they forgot closed captioning support on the NTSC out which rendered it useless as a ATSC to NTSC converter.

I have worked with many engineers including people with the companies you mentioned. (Call Bob Johnston at Hitachi for my references)
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post #194 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 03:19 PM
 
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Bob Johnston is a personal and professional friend of mine for 20 years. I worked with Bob for many years. I love Bob, he is one of the funnest and nicest people I know and a absolutely wild dresser.

I can still get LST-4200As until June '05.

-Robert
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post #195 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by William Smith
Samsung had a great RF front end for the time in the T-160 and T-165

All the compnies are coming out with their own 5th chips that address multipath problems. Maybe Samsung's next offerings will up the ante just as LG drops out of the set top box market. My guess is LG will be back, certainly when the US cuts off analog transmissions.

IB
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post #196 of 433 Old 04-04-2005, 08:46 PM
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All the compnies are coming out with their own 5th chips that address multipath problems.

The problem is that, including that 8 year old notice from Zenith that I posted above, I don't think I have ever seen an 8vsb chip announcement from ANY company that did not say it addressed multipath. So I only now count boxes that are actually selling, where we can get some real reviews of them.

I have never been able to get very good reception from any press release.

- Tom

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post #197 of 433 Old 04-15-2005, 03:37 PM
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post #198 of 433 Old 04-26-2005, 03:10 PM
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post #199 of 433 Old 04-26-2005, 07:16 PM
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LG is now shipping some TVs using the 5th gen chip. I know the 52SX4D 52" DLP and 30FZ4D 30" CRT utilize the LGDT3303 chip and have shipped.

Robert
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post #200 of 433 Old 04-27-2005, 06:23 AM
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So if anyone can get ahold of one of these 5th gen sets, please post reception results. Thanks.
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post #201 of 433 Old 04-27-2005, 07:21 AM
 
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Our shipment is scheduled to arrive Friday, April 29, 2005. I will have them on display by the weekend and will post the results of the OTA reception with a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.

-Robert

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post #202 of 433 Old 04-28-2005, 08:55 AM
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Hi Robert
Is this the new 5 gen box to replace the LG 4200 or just a new shippment of LG 4200. What is the name of the new box? Thanks

HDTV is clear get the picture
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post #203 of 433 Old 04-28-2005, 09:33 AM
 
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Their is no replacement for the LST-4200A as of yet.

The new shipment of LG merchandise is all HDTV's and a new DVD up-converting players recorders and DVD/VCR combo recorders.

One item is a newly designed 50" plasma with a built -in HD DVR.

I am working ou getting the new models up on my site with links to LG's pdf data sheets. These items are so new LG has not yet updated their site and they are not in most stores yet.

-Robert

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post #204 of 433 Old 05-03-2005, 01:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
Our shipment is scheduled to arrive Friday, April 29, 2005. I will have them on display by the weekend and will post the results of the OTA reception with a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

Well I am seriously impressed with LG's 5th generation ATSC tuner. Today we put out two new LG HDTVs, Model #52SX4D 52" and Model DLP w/the HD3 DLP chip set and the 30FZ4 30" CRT Direct View, both have built-in 5th generation ATSC LG tuners.

I connected the indoor Silver Senor OTA antenna and scanned for local channels. It picked up 21 HD OTA channels, more than any other ATSC tuner. The picture is rock solid on all 21 channels. We are surrounded by 6 story apartment buildings in very direction, and our store is on the street level. No other ATSC tuner could even pick up one channel.

You can see these TVs at http://*********************/DLP,%20L...ew%20HDTVs.htm

I am amazed and as impressed as I could ever imagine possible. This advanced technology ATSC tuner make ATSC work reliably.

-Robert

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post #205 of 433 Old 05-03-2005, 01:35 PM
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Well I am seriously impressed with LG's 5th generation ATSC tuner. Today we put out two new LG HDTVs, Model #52SX4D 52" and Model DLP w/the HD3 DLP chip set and the 30FZ4 30" CRT Direct View, both have built-in 5th generation ATSC LG tuners.

Robert -

Are you saying then that the new TV's have noticeably better reception than the 4200A?

- Tom

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post #206 of 433 Old 05-03-2005, 01:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry
Robert -

Are you saying then that the new TV's have noticeably better reception than the 4200A?

- Tom

Yes.

-Robert

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post #207 of 433 Old 05-03-2005, 01:49 PM
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I want one in a OTA set top box now !!!! I need a realiable set top box for OTA . Are you listening LG give us a 5th gen set top box please?

HDTV is clear get the picture
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post #208 of 433 Old 05-03-2005, 02:14 PM
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Hey Robert, any word on whether the LG 30FZ4's slimmer brother, the LG 30FS1D Super-slim has the same tuner? That would be a nice set to pick up if it had the LGDT3303 like the 30FZ4.

Can't wait for the FusionHDTV5 to arrive stateside as well.
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post #209 of 433 Old 05-03-2005, 02:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rack
Hey Robert, any word on whether the LG 30FZ4's slimmer brother, the LG 30FS1D Super-slim has the same tuner? That would be a nice set to pick up if it had the LGDT3303 like the 30FZ4.

Can't wait for the FusionHDTV5 to arrive stateside as well.

Yes it does. All new LG HDTVs have the 5th generation ATSC decoder built-in.

-Robert

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post #210 of 433 Old 05-03-2005, 04:11 PM
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Robert-

Did the 5th generation tuner just address issues with Multipath? Or does it seem that it's also capable of picking of weaker signals as well?

OTA Only since 2/05!
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