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post #1351 of 1375 Unread 08-15-2016, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PaulGo
Is it possible to overlay the HDR signal on a standard HD broadcast signal? I believe this is done on 4K HDR Blu-ray content where the HDR portion is only activated on TV sets that are HD capable.
After doing some research is appears it is possible and also it is possible to overlay HDR a 4Kbroadcast signal, using this logic I assume it is also possible to overlay HDR on a 1080P broadcast signal:


Technicolor and Elemental Technologies demonstrate world’s first live HDR broadcast delivery system at IBC 2015

Backward compatible system upscales high frame rate 4K Standard Dynamic Range events, including live sports, to HDR


Los Angeles (California) and Portland (Oregon), September 10, 2015 – Technicolor (Euronext Paris: TCH; OTCQX: TCLRY) a worldwide technology leader in the media and entertainment sector, and Elemental Technologies, the leading supplier of software-defined video solutions for multiscreen content delivery, announced today they will demonstrate the world’s first broadcast delivery system of 4K UltraHD high dynamic range (HDR) video at IBC 2015 in Hall 13, Booth M5/M7.
The live demonstration, which is optimized for broadcasters and pay-tv networks, shows how distributors can upscale high frame rate, standard dynamic range (SDR) events, such as sports, into impactful HDR. In addition, Technicolor and Elemental will highlight compatibility between Technicolor’s single layer backward compatible HDR delivery system and the 4K/HEVC-ready Elemental Live video encoder to illustrate a cost-effective solution for encoding and delivery.

Intelligent Tone Management Software allows for uncompressed video conversion

Technicolor’s demonstration includes a new server-based version of its Intelligent Tone Management software that scales SDR source material into the vivid colors, rich contrast and heightened realism of HDR video. This software, based on years of research by leading Hollywood colorists, allows a sports or live events operator to continue using their current SDR cameras, workflow, and infrastructure at a venue, but now enables them to upscale the entire broadcast to HDR. To prove the power and flexibility of the Intelligent Tone Management solution, Technicolor is using uncompressed 4K video at 60 frames per second, to showcase how this new technology makes converting content to HDR seamless for operators.
“The combination of HDR up conversion, 4K Ultra HD and high frame rate, and distribution of that signal through an entire compressed delivery chain is a world’s first and now Technicolor is showing that it can be done in real-time,” said Mark Turner, Vice President Partnership Relations and Business Development, Technicolor. “Traditionally, sports has always been the highest value content for pay-tv companies and broadcasters, and the one that has presented most challenges for next-generation video from a cost -benefit perspective – until now.”

Elemental and Technicolor partner for live encoding

Technicolor’s HDR delivery system allows for a single stream combining both HDR and SDR video, enabling distributors to simultaneously support SDR and the rapidly emerging audience of HDR screens. This backward compatible feature is essential to meet the bandwidth requirements for pay-tv operators and OTT distributors looking to migrate with confidence to an HDR world. Technicolor is using its new 4K HDR set top box to decode and play live HDR video while simultaneously playing the same signal on a current generation 4K SDR decoder to demonstrate the directly backward compatible stream.
Technicolor’s backward compatibility feature, while built for MPEG-HEVC initially, is independent of video codec and EOTF and shows the company’s commitment to provide consumers with the amazing benefits of HDR -- with more content, on more devices on an accelerated timeframe.
“HDR is important and the industry wants it sooner rather than later given its obvious visual appeal and potential to stimulate UHD device and service uptake,” said Mike Callahan, Senior Director of Solutions Marketing at Elemental Technologies. “Software-defined video solutions from Elemental give content programmers a key advantage: flexible, scalable HDR infrastructures that support live and VOD services and easily keep pace with rapid change. It’s a powerful complement to the Technicolor HDR workflow which provides features, such as backward compatibility, for simplifying workflows and reducing storage and delivery costs.”
Elemental is also showcasing the Technicolor single layer solution, running on a video-on-demand (VOD) workflow at their stand (Hall 4, Stand 4.B80).

http://www.elementaltechnologies.com...first-live-hdr
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post #1352 of 1375 Unread 08-15-2016, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by egnlsn
IP is far more likely than QAM due to bandwidth concerns, at least in the short term. Maybe a year or two down the road they will be able to do some linear (QAM) 4K channels.
I don't think they will ever be QAM. Comcast wants to move to IP as quickly as possible and away from QAM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGo
Is it possible to overlay the HDR signal on a standard HD broadcast signal? I believe this is done on 4K HDR Blu-ray content where the HDR portion is only activated on TV sets that are HD capable.
Comcast's picture quality is so bad, it's not worth it. The idea of 1080p HDR is silly too. DirecTV will just do it in 4k, they have 50 4k channels worth of bandwidth sitting empty right now waiting for content.

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Originally Posted by jimv1983
I wish I could say the same about the quality. As another comparison test with other sources I bought a HD antenna to try on my TV. My area doesn't have great OTA reception but when I put my antenna on a high point I was able to get a few channels(which did freeze up at times due to bad reception). One of the few channels I was able to get was my local NBC affiliate. The picture quality was excellent. According to the tier 3 support guy I've been talking to Comcast doesn't shouldn't be re-compress any of the local channels and is sending local channels down at like 10Mbps. Whether that's true or not is questionable. He also said that local channels are picked up from the same feed my antenna gets while cable channels come from a different place. He said that if some compression issue was the cause that it would be unlikely that it would impact both local and cable channels since they are processed differently. Again, whether that is true or not is questionable.
It depends on your local channel. NBCSN has a pretty good bitrate, although it doesn't look that great. I have gotten more critical when I used to be, however, as I now have a 65" Sammy 4k TV, so I can see pretty much everything. In my market, I believe they are passing OTA signals straight through, and just remodulating them 2:1, not re-compressing, but it's really hard to tell for sure. It could vary market to market.

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Giving away TV for almost nothing? According to the guy in a local Comcast sales office the current internet I have would cost $65/month all by itself and the landline phone(which I hardly use) is $20/month. My Triple Play package is $180/month. All prices before taxes/fees. Plus that $180/month is a promotion packages while the internet-only and landline are non-promotion prices. That makes the TV the largest portion of the cost.
Weird. Comcast does not have their **** together. Here, they just keep giving you various bundle deals, and they are often about what it would cost for internet only, since there are no promotions on that at all. If you actually had to pay full price, it would be more expensive, but not DirecTV expensive, not even close.

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It seems like a ripoff to me to charge more for a better picture when the picture should be that good in the first place. And it isn't even talking about 4K.
I suppose having two versions of it is actually kind of goofy. If it were actually good quality, I'd pay a couple bucks a month for it though. Not just 1080p with super heavy compression, but a really nice, high bitrate.
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post #1353 of 1375 Unread 08-15-2016, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by enroberts
We're doing QAM today for Olympics viewing parties around the country. It's just one channel and almost a full QAM ;-)
These are only available to Comcast employees? And I'm guessing not on older, non-rebuild systems? Our system is a total mess. We're missing a ton of channels, and it seems to be crammed completely to the gills. It's a 625mhz system. When are the old, sub-860mhz systems going to get rebuilt, and if they don't get rebuilt, then how do they transition over to IPTV, 4k, etc?
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post #1354 of 1375 Unread 08-15-2016, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW
I don't think they will ever be QAM. Comcast wants to move to IP as quickly as possible and away from QAM.
I realized something last night that has me confused. With the X1 system you can watch live TV, OnDemand and cloud recordings on a computer using a web browser or from an Android or iOS device using the Comcast TV app. It would seem to me that those methods are using IP to deliver the video. Doesn't QAM require turner hardware? If that is the case why can't Comcast just send the same thing to the X1 boxes? Maybe I'm missing something. The picture quality over the tv.xfinity.com does look better than what I get from the box.

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I suppose having two versions of it is actually kind of goofy. If it were actually good quality, I'd pay a couple bucks a month for it though. Not just 1080p with super heavy compression, but a really nice, high bitrate.
It just seems to me that it would be double charging. It's like "Hey, we are already sending you a 1080 stream of a channel but it looks terrible. Pay us more money for a stream that is the same resolution but actually looks good."

Last edited by jimv1983; 08-15-2016 at 03:26 PM.
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post #1355 of 1375 Unread 08-15-2016, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jimv1983
Doesn't QAM require tuner hardware?
Right now, with DOCSIS 3.0, IP is delivered over QAM.

Here's what my Comcast system looked like in 2014. The three big downward spikes are the remaining analog channels. Everything else is QAM.



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post #1356 of 1375 Unread 08-15-2016, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dr1394
Right now, with DOCSIS 3.0, IP is delivered over QAM.

Here's what my Comcast system looked like in 2014. The three big downward spikes are the remaining analog channels. Everything else is QAM.



Ron
My question was if picking up a QAM signal requires an actual TV tuner. If this is the case then Comcast must already be sending all channels out over IP instead of QAM since channels can be watched on a computer or mobile app using a regular internet connection.
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post #1357 of 1375 Unread 08-15-2016, 05:27 PM
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All devices connected to the cable have a tuner in them, including HSI modems. Currently, all of the bits being delivered by the cable (whether they're IP bits or linear channel bits) are on a QAM channel.

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post #1358 of 1375 Unread 08-15-2016, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimv1983
I realized something last night that has me confused. With the X1 system you can watch live TV, OnDemand and cloud recordings on a computer using a web browser or from an Android or iOS device using the Comcast TV app. It would seem to me that those methods are using IP to deliver the video. Doesn't QAM require turner hardware? If that is the case why can't Comcast just send the same thing to the X1 boxes? Maybe I'm missing something. The picture quality over the tv.xfinity.com does look better than what I get from the box.
The TV everywhere stuff is encoded very differently than the stuff delievered via linear QAM. Those IP streams are not the same as would be delivered to an STB, were one in existence now that delivered video via IP.

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It just seems to me that it would be double charging. It's like "Hey, we are already sending you a 1080 stream of a channel but it looks terrible. Pay us more money for a stream that is the same resolution but actually looks good."
You have a point.

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Originally Posted by dr1394
Right now, with DOCSIS 3.0, IP is delivered over QAM.
Not the question. We're talking about video being delivered on a QAM versus via IP. Yes, technically DOCSIS 3 uses QAM, but that's irrelevant to our discussion, and a nitpicky distraction to the actual topic at hand.
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post #1359 of 1375 Unread 08-16-2016, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW
The TV everywhere stuff is encoded very differently than the stuff delievered via linear QAM. Those IP streams are not the same as would be delivered to an STB, were one in existence now that delivered video via IP.

But since they are sending out TV over IP at some level shouldn't it be somewhat easy to make the needed changes to send it to the box? Maybe not but it should would be nice to get that quality. Too bad the Comcast TV app on my phone doesn't support Chromecast.
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post #1360 of 1375 Unread 08-16-2016, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jimv1983
But since they are sending out TV over IP at some level shouldn't it be somewhat easy to make the needed changes to send it to the box? Maybe not but it should would be nice to get that quality. Too bad the Comcast TV app on my phone doesn't support Chromecast.
Nope. Managed IP network would be QoS'ed and fixed bitrate, the OTT streaming stuff has to have at least two different bitrates available to do adaptive streaming, and they are probably more heavily compressed.
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post #1361 of 1375 Unread 08-16-2016, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW
Nope. Managed IP network would be QoS'ed and fixed bitrate, the OTT streaming stuff has to have at least two different bitrates available to do adaptive streaming, and they are probably more heavily compressed.
Well that sucks. More heavily compressed? Really? I would be thrilled if that "more heavily compressed" picture is what I got from the box. Couldn't they just pick one of the bit rates and send it down to the boxes? I guess it isn't that easy? I'm guessing by "QoS" you mean "quality of service"? If so my current QoS is a PoS.

I really don't want to go through the trouble of switching to DirecTV and paying more money overall and losing the X1 system which, in my opinion, is better than what DirecTV has but at this point Comcast really isn't leaving me much choice.
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post #1362 of 1375 Unread 08-17-2016, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Comcast Goes For a Gig in Chicago

Comcast confirmed it will launch a 1 Gbps (downstream) consumer pilot offering in Chicago on Wednesday (August 17) powered by DOCSIS 3.1.
The debut, first reported by the Chicago Tribune, will mark Comcast’s third market to rollout DOCSIS 3.1, cable’s multi-gigabit platform for HFC networks, and will follow trials already underway in Atlanta and Nashville.

Like those earlier launches in Atlanta and Nashville, the rollout in Chicago is also considered an “advanced consumer trial,” a Comcast official confirmed.

Comcast will sell 1-Gig in Chicago for $139.95 per month during the trial, but will also be testing promotional pricing in that region, with more specifics to be announced, an MSO official said.

In Atlanta and Nashville, Comcast has been advertising a service that maxes out at 1 Gbps downstream and 35 Mbps upstream for $70 per month to customers who agree to a three-year contract, or a contract-free price of $139.95 per month.

Chicago is also the site of Comcast data-usage trial that limits monthly usage at 1 Terabyte, with the option to purchase additional buckets of 50 GBs of data for $10 each (up to a maximum of $200), or move to a new unlimited data plan that runs an additional $50 per month. Comcast started to trial that plan in greater Chicago and its Northern Indiana systems on August 1 (subscription required).

In Chicago, Comcast is sparring with AT&T, which launched its fiber-based GigaPower platform in parts of Chicago in 2015.

Comcast also offers a symmetrical 2 Gbps “Gigabit Pro” residential service in the Windy City that uses targeted deployments of fiber-to-the-premises technology and starts at $299.95 per month, with a two-year contract.

http://www.multichannel.com/news/dis...chicago/407086
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post #1363 of 1375 Unread 08-17-2016, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Slow Roll Builds for DOCSIS 3.1

Comcast's traditional strategy with broadband upgrades has been to stay ahead of the market in capacity terms, but not to get aggressive with pricing or with promotion of its highest speed tiers. The operator began its upgrade to DOCSIS 3.0 in 2009, well ahead of many other cable companies. And it was also a leader around the same time in converting its video delivery systems to all-digital, reclaiming analog TV bandwidth for expanded Internet services.

However, the moves by Comcast are less about selling super-high-speed Internet services in the short term (although that does help with bragging rights) than they are about giving Comcast room to breathe as more and more services shift to IP. The company has also been pushing fiber deeper into its network to gain capacity and has expressed its support for the rapid development of Full Duplex DOCSIS, which promises to extend cable broadband capabilities in the upstream for symmetrical speeds up to 10 gigabits per second.

Full article at:

http://www.lightreading.com/cable/do...d/d-id/725475?
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post #1364 of 1375 Unread 08-17-2016, 01:47 PM
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DOCSIS 3.1 is coming here (supposed to be by the end of the year) because Google Fiber is building around here.

CIAO!

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post #1365 of 1375 Unread 08-17-2016, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimv1983
Well that sucks. More heavily compressed? Really? I would be thrilled if that "more heavily compressed" picture is what I got from the box. Couldn't they just pick one of the bit rates and send it down to the boxes? I guess it isn't that easy? I'm guessing by "QoS" you mean "quality of service"? If so my current QoS is a PoS.

I really don't want to go through the trouble of switching to DirecTV and paying more money overall and losing the X1 system which, in my opinion, is better than what DirecTV has but at this point Comcast really isn't leaving me much choice.
I'm presuming that IP delivery to the STB will yield less-bad video quality than QAM delivery does today. Not good, but less bad. The boxes would be a single, fixed bitrate, the OTT stream would have multiple bitrates in case Wifi or LTE isn't as fast as the highest bitrate. Not sure what you're talking about with your QoS, since Comcast doesn't currently *HAVE* any widespread IPTV deployments to HAVE QoS. Is Genie that bad? X1 is a pretty crappy rip-off of TiVo. TiVo is the one advantage of cable versus DirecTV, but I don't think even that will keep me around in the long run with cable's awful picture quality.
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post #1366 of 1375 Unread 08-18-2016, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW
I'm presuming that IP delivery to the STB will yield less-bad video quality than QAM delivery does today. Not good, but less bad. The boxes would be a single, fixed bitrate, the OTT stream would have multiple bitrates in case Wifi or LTE isn't as fast as the highest bitrate. Not sure what you're talking about with your QoS, since Comcast doesn't currently *HAVE* any widespread IPTV deployments to HAVE QoS. Is Genie that bad? X1 is a pretty crappy rip-off of TiVo. TiVo is the one advantage of cable versus DirecTV, but I don't think even that will keep me around in the long run with cable's awful picture quality.
Sorry, I must have misunderstood what QoS means. I'm not sure what LTE has to do with it since the live TV requires being on the home Comcast internet connection for it to work. I never said the DirecTV DVR(that's what the Genie is right?) is "BAD" I just don't like the interface. It's a personal preference thing. I simply don't like it. I like the X1 system. The menus are set up better and the whole thing looks better overall to ME. The Genie looks like something that was designed like 10 years ago and never looked at again.
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post #1367 of 1375 Unread 08-19-2016, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jimv1983
Sorry, I must have misunderstood what QoS means. I'm not sure what LTE has to do with it since the live TV requires being on the home Comcast internet connection for it to work. I never said the DirecTV DVR(that's what the Genie is right?) is "BAD" I just don't like the interface. It's a personal preference thing. I simply don't like it. I like the X1 system. The menus are set up better and the whole thing looks better overall to ME. The Genie looks like something that was designed like 10 years ago and never looked at again.
XFinity TVGo works over 3G or 4G mobile data, but that only has a subset of the live TV streaming in-house I believe.

Interesting. I'll have to go to an AT&T store and play with Genie if they have one set up there. Since TiVo is far superior to X1, I have to wonder how good Genie is. X1 was a huge improvement over iGuide, but it's still not very good. I swear they hired laid off Nokia engineers to design the software. It reminds me of my E71, where you had to make 20 clicks to do anything. Hopefully AT&T stores have them. They definitely have DirecTV, now that AT&T doesn't sell U-Verse [in Connecticut]. It was mega-awkward pre-merger and pre-selloff to Frontier when they had U-Verse and DirecTV (bundled with DSL) in the same store.
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post #1368 of 1375 Unread 08-21-2016, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by egnlsn
DOCSIS 3.1 is coming here (supposed to be by the end of the year) because Google Fiber is building around here.
Will this also be limited to the SLC city boundaries (like Google Fiber), or available in the 'burbs?
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post #1369 of 1375 Unread 08-21-2016, 05:28 PM
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Will this also be limited to the SLC city boundaries (like Google Fiber), or available in the 'burbs?
That I don't know. Didn't even think about asking that question. I'll see if I can find out. I hope it will be available to all of us.

CIAO!

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post #1370 of 1375 Unread 08-22-2016, 09:01 AM
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Will this also be limited to the SLC city boundaries (like Google Fiber), or available in the 'burbs?
3.1 rolls out in Q4 in all areas in Utah.

"I think over the next 5 years, with Comcast, Google and Centurylink now In the race for fiber to the premise in this market, hopefully we’ll see higher services levels at reduced prices."






CIAO!

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post #1371 of 1375 Unread 08-22-2016, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by egnlsn

3.1 rolls out in Q4 in all areas in Utah.

"I think over the next 5 years, with Comcast, Google and Centurylink now In the race for fiber to the premise in this market, hopefully we’ll see higher services levels at reduced prices."
Thanks! Well, I'd like them to be in a race for fiber (or comparable) to my home -- but at least there is finally some signs of progress from one of the parties...
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post #1372 of 1375 Unread 08-23-2016, 02:55 PM
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Thanks! Well, I'd like them to be in a race for fiber (or comparable) to my home -- but at least there is finally some signs of progress from one of the parties...
I'd rather have good, solid competition for delivering 100mbps internet to a wide subscriber base at a reasonable price. I'd prefer FTTH, but I'd pick HFC or VDSL if it were the right speed at the right price.
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post #1373 of 1375 Unread 08-23-2016, 07:15 PM
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...if it were the right speed at the right price.
Price definitely is the ultimate deciding factor.

CIAO!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW
XFinity TVGo works over 3G or 4G mobile data, but that only has a subset of the live TV streaming in-house I believe.

Interesting. I'll have to go to an AT&T store and play with Genie if they have one set up there. Since TiVo is far superior to X1, I have to wonder how good Genie is. X1 was a huge improvement over iGuide, but it's still not very good. I swear they hired laid off Nokia engineers to design the software. It reminds me of my E71, where you had to make 20 clicks to do anything. Hopefully AT&T stores have them. They definitely have DirecTV, now that AT&T doesn't sell U-Verse [in Connecticut]. It was mega-awkward pre-merger and pre-selloff to Frontier when they had U-Verse and DirecTV (bundled with DSL) in the same store.
In my experience AT&T stores inside malls and even some multi tenant shopping center buildings doesn't have DirecTV because they aren't allowed to put a dish on the building. Free standing AT&T stores and some multi tenant shopping center buildings will often have DirecTV set up.

Not sure what you are talking about saying it takes "20 clicks to do anything". I can start playing a recording in as little as 3 button presses. It's only more if I have to scroll down a long list of shows or scroll through a list of episodes of one show.

I also think it's kind of funny that DirecTV started calling its box the "Genie" like it was some "new" product they released. The UI hardly looks any different than the box offered like 10-15 years ago. Besides a darker color theme it's about the same.

The search functionality of the "Genie" is awful.

As for the TiVo being superior that is YOUR opinion.
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Originally Posted by jimv1983
In my experience AT&T stores inside malls and even some multi tenant shopping center buildings doesn't have DirecTV because they aren't allowed to put a dish on the building. Free standing AT&T stores and some multi tenant shopping center buildings will often have DirecTV set up.

Not sure what you are talking about saying it takes "20 clicks to do anything". I can start playing a recording in as little as 3 button presses. It's only more if I have to scroll down a long list of shows or scroll through a list of episodes of one show.

I also think it's kind of funny that DirecTV started calling its box the "Genie" like it was some "new" product they released. The UI hardly looks any different than the box offered like 10-15 years ago. Besides a darker color theme it's about the same.

The search functionality of the "Genie" is awful.

As for the TiVo being superior that is YOUR opinion.
Ours seem to all have them. Our malls aren't more than 2 stories tall here, so worst case scenario, they run a cable up a floor or two to the roof for a dish.

X1 is extremely click-heavy. You can to click and click and click to do anything. The responsiveness of the remote isn't very good either, although my TiVo isn't so hot, but it's 2 generations old, and is doing way more than the hardware platform ever envisioned (Premiere). X1 is weirdly inconsistent though, it has something to do with the way it's cloud-based.

The Genie was really the multi-room implementation with the central 5-tuner box and the small client boxes.

So what's better than TiVo? Some people argue Genie is, I haven't used it myself to be able to verify that. X1, while better than the iGuide DVRs, is nowhere even close to TiVo, MCE is a disaster, so maybe Hopper? Ignoring DISH's poor satellite TV service, is Hopper a good DVR? I've never used one, and don't care to ever use one, but it could be a good DVR with a poor TV service backing it up.
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