Status of Boston DTV Tower??? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 601 Old 09-07-2000, 12:26 PM
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TShort,

I have a Winegard deep fringe UHF only antenna outside, about 25 feet off the ground. Paid ~$75 for it at You Do It Electronics in Needham. SAF for outside antenna's is very low, but after several days of "this is the only way it's going to work" she...

uhh never mind, I will shut up now. I would like to stay married

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post #92 of 601 Old 09-07-2000, 10:25 PM
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Watching Letterman right now. Much better than analog, but agree that 40-1 has an edge on SDTV clarity (BUT NO HD!!!!!). Full NTSC picture & full 16:9 HD picture works great.

Very happy with seeing all the 4:3 picture data, with all deference to the 14 year old girls....

Tim

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post #93 of 601 Old 09-07-2000, 10:53 PM
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I can't get WBZ, so I can't comment on how it looks, even though I'm only a few miles further west than Jim_S.

I would like to say that I'd rather not have black bars. The Elite TVs lock into full mode when given an HD signal, so with 4x3 being converted to 16x9 1080i (or whatever it is), I can't adjust the picture to fill the screen.

Jim_S, what do you use to get WBZ?

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post #94 of 601 Old 09-08-2000, 11:18 AM
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Do you guys get a lot of break up on WHDH/NBC (42-1?)? I seem to get signal breakup/blocking/sound dropouts every once in a while... Are they in low power too?

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post #95 of 601 Old 09-08-2000, 12:17 PM
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TShort

WHDH (42-1) and WFXT (31-1) have been the most solid signals I get, and the only signals that don't breakup up the wind/rain. If you are getting breakup, you will probably get breakup on WBZ when it goes to full power. Time to think about moving the antenna from the attic to the roof? The hardest part of an outside antenna is explaining to the neighbors what that thing on your roof is for.

Tim,

Before the police come knocking at my door, I want to say the 14 year old girls were relatives. Uncle Jim is a real push over.

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post #96 of 601 Old 09-08-2000, 04:18 PM
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Jim,

You gave me a great laugh (been a long day, I needed it). Understand.

Tim

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post #97 of 601 Old 09-08-2000, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim_S:
TShort

WHDH (42-1) and WFXT (31-1) have been the most solid signals I get, and the only signals that don't breakup up the wind/rain. If you are getting breakup, you will probably get breakup on WBZ when it goes to full power. Time to think about moving the antenna from the attic to the roof? The hardest part of an outside antenna is explaining to the neighbors what that thing on your roof is for.


Jim,

Have a little faith here! WBZ's signal will leave the other's in the dust!

Bob
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post #98 of 601 Old 09-09-2000, 09:14 AM
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Bob Hess Posted
Quote:
Jim,

Have a little faith here! WBZ's signal will leave the other's in the dust!

Bob
Well bring it on Bob :-)



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post #99 of 601 Old 09-09-2000, 04:09 PM
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Well... I bought a new antenna... Winegard "Prostar 1000 Series" UHF model PR-9022 from You Blew... err... Do It Electronics (I had the hours wrong: 9-9 M-F, 9-6 Sat, closed Sun). It still fits in my attic...

I am now able to get 100% signal strength for 42.01 (WHDH), 20.01 (WCVB), 23.01 (WHUB) and 23.02. I'm not getting the breakup I was getting on 42.01 anymore! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
I get 88% (8 out of 9 dots) signal signal strength for 31.02 (WFXT).
I'm not sure what my previous signal strengths were, but I don't remember them being 100%.

This is after fiddling with various connections, amplifier settings, etc. I bought a VHF/UHF combiner, but it hurt the signal strength by 1 dot (~11%). I'm going to try another way of connecting my other VHF/UHF antenna later, to see if I can still keep VHF stations strong.

But I still can't get WBZ yet! UGH!

Bob... is the new antenna tower the one to the west of 128? That's the biggest one I saw when I was in Needham today.

One side effect of installing an antenna in my attic... I now get good radio reception! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

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post #100 of 601 Old 09-09-2000, 07:11 PM
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tshort,

Have you tried the turned to Min attenuator trick yet?

Tim

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post #101 of 601 Old 09-09-2000, 08:18 PM
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tshort,

When you were @ "You Blew it Electronics" you could have hit the WBZ tower with a rock, it's right there.

Tim,

The award of post # 100 on this thread goes to you. My hero.

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post #102 of 601 Old 09-10-2000, 08:53 AM
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Rich,

If we kept the old BZ tower posts going, despited our admitted tangents from the topic, we might be approaching 500s, Bob Hess' title aversions aside.

Tim

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post #103 of 601 Old 09-10-2000, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rudolpht:
Have you tried the turned to Min attenuator trick yet?
I'll get one tomorrow from Radio Shack, and maybe a better UHF/VHF combiner/splitter. I don't get any signal strength at all from 30.01.

I had a neighbor over showing him the DTV, and I was showing him the clear picture without snow, static or ghosting. Then on WHUB (which has gotten significantly worse recently), we were getting reception problems, and that showed him what partial reception was like... it looked perfectly clear, but blocky! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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post #104 of 601 Old 09-11-2000, 05:31 PM
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We gotta keep this topic with more replies than Denver! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

I got an antenuator, and it didn't help. It hurt the signal strength, and I couldn't get in 30.01. I also got a new UHF/VHF combiner, and it did the same thing as the last one. Wondering if I should return them...

There seems to be another way to combine the VHF and UHF portions of my antanna's, I'm going to try that later. I need some 300-Ohm twin-lead, question, if the length of the run is about 1.5 feet or less, do I REALLY need to run 300-Ohm twin=lead? Or can I get away with two short runs of wire (such as the extra antenna rotator wire I have)?

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post #105 of 601 Old 09-11-2000, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tshort:
We gotta keep this topic with more replies than Denver! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

I got an antenuator, and it didn't help. It hurt the signal strength, and I couldn't get in 30.01. I also got a new UHF/VHF combiner, and it did the same thing as the last one. Wondering if I should return them...
Need to get a variable antenuator and set it to min. (Yes min). $10 r/s part. It may be magic for me. I know other folks haven't had any luck with the attenuator voodoo.

It may work for me because I pray to Rex Trailer and the Boomtown pantheon from BZ days gone by.

Tim

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post #106 of 601 Old 09-11-2000, 11:21 PM
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Page 4.... Yes!

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post #107 of 601 Old 09-12-2000, 12:34 AM
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Use 300 ohm twin lead. If you want to avoid buying a big chunk then buy a cheap set of rabbit ears with twin lean and cut off what you need.

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post #108 of 601 Old 09-12-2000, 06:12 AM
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A lot of us have used the attenuator voodoo in different ways. I used it to minimize the signal on Fox and kept tweaking the antenna until I had the strongest signal with the weakest input. Took the anntenuator off, and had a very weak WBZ signal. Spent another hour moving the antenna tiny amounts, smaller increments than could be done with a rotor.

I have never liked 300 ohm twin lead, even in short runs. Too many ghost problems, and assume digital would have the same multipath issues as NTSC has with ghosting.

Kudos to WBZ for the "Broadcast in True HDTV" moniker in the NTSC broadcast. Great way to get the word out to Joe 6 pack. I kept switching from MNF at the commercials to catch a peek. Even the WBZ commercials although in 4:3, did not have the odd geometry problem. Great job Mr. Hess, it is one of the best HDTV pictures I have seen anywhere, including HBOH.

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post #109 of 601 Old 09-12-2000, 01:59 PM
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I have the antenna mounted to the side of the house at the roof peak, so I can adjust it from a ladder. Had the little woman yelling signal strength out as I moved it around.

You might want to try using the attenuator on WHDH (42-1) setting it to max to eliminate multipath interference. Being as close as you are you may be putting too much signal into your TV. I had a similar problem with FOX when I first set the antenna up. Its a game of trial and error, and its probably time to stop listening to me because of all the errors




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post #110 of 601 Old 09-12-2000, 04:28 PM
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I'm not an ANTENNA engineer, but I was told never to downlink a UHF antenna to a UHF/VHF coimbined antenna, only to a VHF only.

More voodoo..... or more power!!!!!

Tim

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post #111 of 601 Old 09-12-2000, 09:50 PM
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If the antenneas are pointing nearly 90 degrees from each other and there isn't much to cause multipath (like in Kansas) then you can combine any two antennas. It may take some fussing to keep any multipath down, but it can be done under the right circumstances.

(Denver's ahead in posts again)

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post #112 of 601 Old 09-12-2000, 10:27 PM
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The UHF antenna I bought has two sets of antenna hook ups... one for the down link, the other says it is to be connected to a VHF antenna... I want to try using a 1.5' (very short) length of twin-lead between my old UHF/VHF antenna (I removed the vertical cross members on the VHF/UHF antenna, which should lessen the UHF multipath?), to see if I can get VHF as well.

The VHF/UHF "Gold Series" R/S combiner was no better than the cheap one I bought at You Do It, it degraded the signal strength by 1 dot. I want to see how this hookup (using twin-lead between the antennas) compares... I may still have an old pair of broken rabbit ears from my dead Sears TV...

I tried various combinations of the antenuator, it's a variable 20dB, with the adjustable value set to min:

ant -> ground block -> TV
ant -> ground block -> amplifier -> TV ****
ant -> ground block -> atenuator -> TV
ant -> ground block -> atenuator -> amplifier -> TV
ant -> ground block -> amplifier -> atenuator -> TV
ant -> VHF/UHF grounded combiner -> TV
ant -> VHF/UHF grounded combiner -> amplifier -> TV
ant -> VHF/UHF grounded combiner -> amplifier -> atenuator -> TV
ant -> VHF/UHF grounded combiner -> atenuator -> TV
ant -> VHF/UHF grounded combiner -> atenuator -> amplifiter -> TV

The **** gives the best signal strength on the channels I can get. I bought the Winegard to get more gain... and I have noticed less, if none, break up on 42.01.

I have the amp because I send the antenna signal to my receiver for FM and to the other antenna input for analog reception (so I can see how 44 is coming in), and it's better than a splitter in this regard.

I figure the strong Fox signal on 30 was hurting WBZ's signal on 31... so an antenuator would make sense.

How were you able to make the small adjustments? Get up on the roof? (I DON'T want to move my antenna to the roof...)

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post #113 of 601 Old 09-13-2000, 09:17 AM
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I'm also not an antenna engineer but the guy who put my UHF only antenna up 50' in a pine tree said NOT to combine at all. He said running a totally seperate high grade coax for this seperate antenna and then hooking it up with a seperate UHF designed amp would yield the best results. In my case on the DTC-100 STB there are antenna A & B inputs, so my normal VHF/UHF/FM antenna is on the A port and my souped up UHF only rig is on the B port.

The results have been great, I get WHDH & WFXT at 95+ signal, WCVB at the lower power they are at now at 65+ signal and I'm 60 miles away from Boston near Worcester AND in a small valley to boot. Despite the excellent results I do NO get WBZ however. Come on Bob, make it happen.


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post #114 of 601 Old 09-14-2000, 07:09 PM
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Since no one's asked in a week, I guess it's my turn.

Bob, what's the word in WBZ towerland? The new prime-time schedule is just around the corner...
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post #115 of 601 Old 09-18-2000, 07:21 AM
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Sending this glorious topic to the top, in hopes that Bob has the answer... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

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post #116 of 601 Old 09-18-2000, 03:15 PM
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I'm hoping that its going to be soon. after all his last post about it was that he was taking to the contractor last week and he'd let us know what happens. maybe he was told next week(meaning this week) and Bob didn't want to get our hopes up seeing that he had already said the end of the month, and he wants to surprise us.

(wishful thinking)
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post #117 of 601 Old 09-18-2000, 09:05 PM
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Bob Hess,

Any good news ... or bad?

we want to beat denver, in posts and continued high quality.

Tim

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post #118 of 601 Old 09-18-2000, 09:18 PM
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The Framingham Best Buy has the new RCA 38" 16x9 TV in the store attached to a UHF antenna! I was able to see WFXT, WCVB and WHDH. However, I did not try to tune in WBZ nor WHUB.

Denver has almost 200!?! posts.

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post #119 of 601 Old 09-19-2000, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rudolpht:
Bob Hess,

Any good news ... or bad?

Tim
Here's the WBZ tower update:

At this point, two issues remain....

1. Our bridge is about 75% complete. The 250 foot horizontal support structure for the three runs of 8 inch transmission line should be ready to hang line in a few days. Completion of the horizontal run by the end of the month is questionable.

2. At the top of the tower, just below the antenna, there is a point where the three rigid copper 8" transmission lines (the lines that carry the signals from the transmitters to the antenna) terminate. At this point, measurements are being made and a few pieces of custom cut 8" and 7" lines must be fabricated to connect the whole complex to the antenna system. For those wondering, there are actually two antennas at the top that will be transmitting DTV. The third line is a spare in case one of the primary lines burn up - part of the redundacy we are building into the project since the failure of just one line would take several stations off the air. We are still expecting the line termination process to be complete before the end of the month. It did not help that the entire crew came down sick yesterday with the flu.

I am still awaiting an update from the owners of the two companies doing the construction. We are REALLY trying to have our signal, and the signals of WCVB and WGBH up and on the air by October 2, which is the start date of the new CBS fall season of HDTV programming. My guess right now is that we will miss that date, but not by much. Even if all of the construction is complete, testing will still take a few days before we begin regular programming on the new system.

As far as what you early adopters see on your sets, I see us with at least two remaining problems to solve. One is lip-sync and the other relates to the comment in another thread about our 4x3 aspect ratio upconverted programming sitting in a 16x9 frame. We're working on both of these problems and also hope to have our PSIP system functioning around the time we go full power.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
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post #120 of 601 Old 09-19-2000, 08:01 AM
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It sounds like things are atleast moving forward. I can't wait to see CBS in HDTV. From what I've heard it sounds like CBS offers the most programing. Im hoping next year they will be doing the football games as well. They seem to be putting alot intoit.
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