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post #91 of 3340 Old 02-14-2006, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billodom View Post

My Samsung DLP TV has HDMI and DVI inputs. Unfortunately, connecting the 6416 with a HDMI/DVI cable yields the same result--the 6416 still only passes PCM. According to one poster on this forum, the QIP/DCT STBs are in compliance with the HDMI spec. If you have an AV receiver with HDMI switching you should get 5.1 audio. Still, there is apparently a firmware fix for this issue. I called Motorola technical support and they advised me that they have provided Verizon with the fix and to ask them for it. Verizon tech support did confirm that they have been provided with the fix and are currently testing it. No word on when it would be implemented. In my particular case, I am choosing to go with the improved PQ over HDMI and going with the PCM that my Yamaha AV receiver converts to PLII.

Same situation here with a Sony GWIII. In my case I opted to go with the HDMI output since I have never gotten around to installing rear speakers anyway, and it should be a lot more apparent when they actually load this fix. Thanks for doing the legwork to verify that this is indeed on Verizon's radar.
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post #92 of 3340 Old 02-14-2006, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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My FiOS install is scheduled for tomorrow. I currently have a D* multiswitch in my attic connected to my D* dish. The ouputs of the multiswitch go to my three TVs (via the D* STBs). My plan is for the installers to put a splitter next to the multiswitch.

The issues are:

1) To get into my attic you need to climb up a step ladder and kind of 'pull' yourself up,
2) My attic does not have a floor and is extremely dusty.

I'm wondering if the installers will be willing to put the splitter where I want it (next to the multiswitch), or will they refuse and insist on an easier path?

Is this something I should do prior to them coming out tomorrow? If so, can anybody give me specifics on what kind of splitter the FiOS installers use so I can perhaps go out and buy one?

Also, should I run a coax (RG6) from the ONT location to the attic prior to installation, or should I let them do it?
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post #93 of 3340 Old 02-14-2006, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypicky View Post

My FiOS install is scheduled for tomorrow. I currently have a D* multiswitch in my attic connected to my D* dish. The ouputs of the multiswitch go to my three TVs (via the D* STBs). My plan is for the installers to put a splitter next to the multiswitch.

The issues are:

1) To get into my attic you need to climb up a step ladder and kind of 'pull' yourself up,
2) My attic does not have a floor and is extremely dusty.

I'm wondering if the installers will be willing to put the splitter where I want it (next to the multiswitch), or will they refuse and insist on an easier path?

Is this something I should do prior to them coming out tomorrow? If so, can anybody give me specifics on what kind of splitter the FiOS installers use so I can perhaps go out and buy one?

Also, should I run a coax (RG6) from the ONT location to the attic prior to installation, or should I let them do it?

Just being nosy, but, why does it matter? You are, in fact, getting rid of D*, right? You can't run D* and Fios on the same cable anyway.

They will do the run, so don't do it yourself. I don't know how they'll deal with the no floor thing, though. They may have orders not to straddle ceiling joists to keep from slipping and falling through the sheetrock or punching a hole in it with their foot.

Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
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post #94 of 3340 Old 02-14-2006, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickypicky View Post

My FiOS install is scheduled for tomorrow. I currently have a D* multiswitch in my attic connected to my D* dish. The ouputs of the multiswitch go to my three TVs (via the D* STBs). My plan is for the installers to put a splitter next to the multiswitch.

The issues are:

1) To get into my attic you need to climb up a step ladder and kind of 'pull' yourself up,
2) My attic does not have a floor and is extremely dusty.

I'm wondering if the installers will be willing to put the splitter where I want it (next to the multiswitch), or will they refuse and insist on an easier path?

Is this something I should do prior to them coming out tomorrow? If so, can anybody give me specifics on what kind of splitter the FiOS installers use so I can perhaps go out and buy one?

Also, should I run a coax (RG6) from the ONT location to the attic prior to installation, or should I let them do it?

Just being nosy, but, why does it matter? You are, in fact, getting rid of D*, right? You can't run D* and Fios on the same cable anyway.

They will do the run, so don't do it yourself. I don't know how they'll deal with the no floor thing, though. They may have orders not to straddle ceiling joists to keep from slipping and falling through the sheetrock or punching a hole in it with their foot.

Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
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post #95 of 3340 Old 02-16-2006, 11:16 PM
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Curious?

I just got FIOS TV, and I have never had a DVR or anything like it. I got the Moto qip6416-1 HD/DVR.

I have had a PC though, running Windows XP, with an HDTV Wonder from ATI. With it, I have been able to record programs and store them on my hard drive. Some of them I even encode to a divx file, then store them on my server over my wireless network so I can archive and view them at a later date. Now I understand this might be a touchy subject, but I am just asking out of ignorance.

With the qip6416-1, can I connect my PC to it to capture the HD or SD recordings? Simple question, probably not a simple answer.

TIA
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post #96 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by craniumxd View Post

With the qip6416-1, can I connect my PC to it to capture the HD or SD recordings? Simple question, probably not a simple answer.

TIA

In theory, yes, cause the equipment could probably do it, but in reality not until Verizon enables the DVR to do so.
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post #97 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 04:22 AM
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Other threads have described being able to successfully record the local SD and HD stations over firewire to the PC, since these are not protected. You will need one of those HD video recorders with 5C encryption capability to capture the others, I believe, and it is possible that certain programming is protected even from this.

I will do a quick search and post an update if I find the thread I am thinking about....
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post #98 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 04:37 AM
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Okay, the primary reference to firewire recording capability are over at dslreports.com on their FiOS fiber forum.

Here is a link to a thread that speaks to it directly.

There is also a sticky thread on firewire recording (IEEE 1394) at the top of the HD Recording forum on avsforums. I found a reference there to successful recording off of the 6416.
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post #99 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 05:44 AM
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Thanks a lot for the reference. Looks like there are some major obstacles though. Are there any tutorials out there that explain how to capture the recording via the firewire to the pc?

I mean do you play the recorded program, then capture it? How do you do this?

What do they mean by national and the term 5c?

This looks like a Herculean task for those of us that want to archive anything not on the national channels? (NBC CBS....)

Am I right?

TIA
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post #100 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digital_dilemma View Post

Just being nosy, but, why does it matter? You are, in fact, getting rid of D*, right? You can't run D* and Fios on the same cable anyway.

They will do the run, so don't do it yourself. I don't know how they'll deal with the no floor thing, though. They may have orders not to straddle ceiling joists to keep from slipping and falling through the sheetrock or punching a hole in it with their foot.

Well, I had my install on Wednesday. I posted the details here . Overall, I am pleased with FiOS. HD delivery is top-notch. SD is good, although not significantly better than D* (to my eye). Maybe I would see a bigger improvement with a larger TV. My two HD TVs are 30" and 23" respectively.

Update: I was able to do another comparison between D* SD and V* SD. The V* SD is more detailed. I detect less blockiness in the V* picture. I did the comparison over several SD channels and consistently, V* was less blocky. I was using the same TV (30") with D* using component video input and V* using HDMI->DVI input.
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post #101 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craniumxd View Post

What do they mean by national and the term 5c?

5C = DTCP and other DRM systems.

5C = 5 Companies ... Hitachi, Intel, Matsushita, Sony, and Toshiba ... which jointly produced the DTCP spec (and authorize other DRMs to interact / work with / share content with DTCP).

http://www.dtcp.com/data/wp_spec.pdf
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post #102 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I've read a lot about Verizon FiOS having a lot of bandwidth for TV but I haven't read how much they have. Has anybody done the calculations to determine:

1) How much bandwidth FiOS TV has
2) With existing programming, approximately how much bandwidth they have left?
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post #103 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 09:37 AM
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It would be dependant on the Font end of the STB that FIOS is using. Cable companys have about 750 Mhz of BW to use, but are limited by the number of analog channels used and modulation (QAM64 or 'QAM256) for digital. Also Limited by cable loss, infrastructure equipment etc. FIOS on the other hand does have lots of available BW on the fiber, but may be using the exact same equipment. Depends on what and how the OTD does its job. IF it is already designed for greater then 750 Mhz then yes they can do lots more channels then cable. And since they are 100% digital and most likely doing QAM256 then they can fit lots more channels, then cable.

P
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post #104 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 01:34 PM
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P is mostly correct. The RF portion of the optics FIOS is using is rated at 51 - 860 MHz, the same as the latest gear some cable companies are using. FIOS also does an analog tier, they reserve channels 2-49 for this from the line ups I have seen. With a set top I believe these analogs are simucast in digital. They are most likely using 256 QAM for all digitals, which could handle 12 SD channels or 2 HD channels of MPEG2 without further compression.

Up to this point FIOS would be equal to cable as far as bandwidth. What really gains more for them is the WDWM on the fiber for telephone and high speed data. On cable these services would be carried in the RF path taking up some of the 810 MHz of bandwidth. With FIOS multiplexing these on the fiber at different wavelegnths they do not take up any of the RF bandwidth. Significant advantage.

Hope this helped.
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post #105 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

Up to this point FIOS would be equal to cable as far as bandwidth. What really gains more for them is the WDWM on the fiber for telephone and high speed data. On cable these services would be carried in the RF path taking up some of the 810 MHz of bandwidth. With FIOS multiplexing these on the fiber at different wavelegnths they do not take up any of the RF bandwidth. Significant advantage.

Hope this helped.

Let me re-phrase my question. Considering what Verizon FiOS TV is currently delivering (and the associated bandwidth they have used), how many more HD channels can they deliver and maintain their current "true" HD standard?
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post #106 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 04:04 PM
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Dang! I worked hard on that explanation

134 channels in 860 MHz.
48 reserved for analog.
Leaves 86 for QAM 256. I've read 300+ channels total.
-48 Analog
-24 HD (Guess)
Leaves 228 SD digital.

Those 228 at 12 per would be 19 256 QAMs
24 HD at 2 per would be 12 QAMs

That would leave 53 QAMs open for HD or other SD.

Assumptions:

12/1 A/D compression - worst case
NO VOD streams on QAM, all delivered via IP - doubtful
All 256 QAM - probable

Is that better?
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post #107 of 3340 Old 02-17-2006, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

Dang! I worked hard on that explanation

134 channels in 860 MHz.
48 reserved for analog.
Leaves 86 for QAM 256. I've read 300+ channels total.
-48 Analog
-24 HD (Guess)
Leaves 228 SD digital.

Those 228 at 12 per would be 19 256 QAMs
24 HD at 2 per would be 12 QAMs

That would leave 53 QAMs open for HD or other SD.

Assumptions:

12/1 A/D compression - worst case
NO VOD streams on QAM, all delivered via IP - doubtful
All 256 QAM - probable

Is that better?

Much better ...I think...

What I gleen from the above is Verizon has around 53 QAMs open and you can fit 2 HD Channels per QAM, therefore (with my limited math ability) they can fit approximately another 106 HD channels, correct?

Thank you for the explanation. Also, am I correct in assuming that quite a bit of bandwidth can be saved by eventually eliminating the 48 (wasted, at least in my mind ) analog locals?
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post #108 of 3340 Old 02-18-2006, 04:04 AM
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Based on the above assumptions, correct.
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post #109 of 3340 Old 02-18-2006, 04:50 PM
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Well, got my install yesterday(fri 2/17), the Fiber was run to the house on wednesday. It was a looonnng install. Guys(2) got here @1:30pm, they left at 10pm, w/o my boxes(2 dvr's) being running. The last 1.5 hrs was just waiting for the init d/l's, which didn't come. I let them go home assuming overnight finish, which did happen.

I got the "triple play"(phone/data/tv). The first 2-3 hrs was getting the ONT, primary cat5 and coax run to my office(other side of house). My attic is a real bear, my hat's off to these guys for running everything inside. I warned 'em about it, an when he came down he let me know how "right" I was about my attic, no floor and "real" low.

Then it was about 1/2hr spent getting a dialtone. Turned out to be bad oxidation on my outside wires.

Internet came right up. My Linksys is daisychained behind their D-link, w/ their radio turned off. Just rebooted my Linksys for newIP and was good to go.

Then came tv. They got a little agressive in disconnecting cables in attic, lost my DISH, and OTA antenna. They worked for about an hour getting "what I had" back. The rest of the time was getting boxes in place and hooked up.

I have hdmi->dvi cable on Samsung 61" DLP. Do not get 5.1 out of my optical connect to receiver, hope they get this fixed. I have hdmi to 42" Sony lcd RP in bedroom, works fine.

Have 1 weird issue yet. The box on DLP is "missing" 3 local HD's(Fox/CBS/UPN), I can switch to them, but no pic shows up. Yet they show up on my bedroom box. Called and they tried resetting the box multiple times with no result. They are going to bring me a new box on monday.

PQ - SD channels are noticably better than DISH, this alone makes it worthwhile. HD is good, better than DISH HD, but not quite as good as OTA, IMO, but real close.

Haven't played with it too much yet, my first DVR, gonna be fun messing w/ it. One gripe, I think the remote blows. Tiny little buttons, not well layed out. My brothers Comcast remote is better(also works most of my boxes functions). Oh well.

Overall, pretty pleased so far.
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post #110 of 3340 Old 02-19-2006, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDuff View Post

It was a looonnng install. Guys(2) got here @1:30pm, they left at 10pm, w/o my boxes(2 dvr's) being running.

I don't understand this at all. How can Verizon make any money after spending 16+ man-hours hooking you up? Eventually they will have to do much much better than that.
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post #111 of 3340 Old 02-19-2006, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

I don't understand this at all. How can Verizon make any money after spending 16+ man-hours hooking you up? Eventually they will have to do much much better than that.

Yes it is a big gamble on Verizon's part - they bank on the fact that most people are too lazy to change providers and like the "package" deal from a single provider.

They hope to grab exactly people like mcduff - all 3 major services, TV/data/phone. At $100+/mo/household they'll get the money invested in these installs back within a couple of years.

The cable companies invested the same way when they installed all that coax in every neighborhood many years ago. I hope they got their money back cause the competition from Verizon will make them lose their profit margin.
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post #112 of 3340 Old 02-19-2006, 02:29 PM
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I asked the guy if my install will become water cooler talk.

He said they are supposed to average 3 installs/day, less when doing triple plays. Also said they are working 60hr weeks, so demand is big. As far as I'm concerned, E* & D* better be real worried too, I've been a E* customer for a decade, but they are losing me.

Biker19 is right, monthly long term customers is where it's at. In my case, they already had my phone and data(DSL), so payback from just tv won't be real rapid. But as long as they treat me right, I'll hang w/ 'em. As noticed w/ my E* service, I tend to hang around as long as you do that, but E* is farking up so adios. But I kept my sat wiring and OTA cable in place, so I can keep my options open.

It is a huge infrastructure cost, figure in the 2man crew that also had to lay the cable to my house, and of course the diggin crews for the main trunks everywhere. whew big $$$.

*had an interruption to this post*

Doorbell rang at 10am, another Verizon tech showed up, said "I'm here for your trouble ticket."(followed shortly by a 2nd guy) Dang, wasn't expecting anybody til monday. They tried a new box, no improvement on the missing HD locals. They wound up having to run a new coax down the wall, the old one just wasn't cutting it. But this was after spending lots of time with phone support trying everything. So add ~5 more manhours to my install.

Am happy to say that everything is now running as expected. I have to say; ALL Verizon techs that I have interfaced with, from the outside ground crew, both sets of inside, to phone support, have been very courteous, knowledgable and professional(the orig install guy even called today, his day off, to make sure everything was ok). Good job guys, keep it up and you will have me for a longhaul.
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post #113 of 3340 Old 02-20-2006, 11:28 AM
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My FIOS was installed on Monday, the 13th (after a six week wait!). The technicians arrived at 9am and were finished by noon. The fact that my Verizon internet & phone service was already setup and running no doubt speeded the installation.

I replaced the DISH network service to 1 SD television and am adding HD/DVR to my Sony HS10 projector in the Home Theater. Verizon SD reception is marginally better than DISH, probably because I am now using component connections vs. the S video output of the Dish receiver, but the programming guide is nicer. The FIOS remote control is an non-backlit ergonomic disaster. HD in the theater (via the component outputs projected onto a 100" diag. screen) is OK but not quite as good as my Samsung OTA receiver (which was sold on Ebay). HD Net is great, as is HD Discovery. The DVR is easy and fun to use, but with only 160gb of memory, it is too small for very much HD recording (about 25 hrs. max).

Overall, I am very pleased with the quality of both the FIOS product and their service.
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post #114 of 3340 Old 02-21-2006, 07:44 AM
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It's weird, my 2 dvr's are out of sync. If I am in hall between them, I can hear about a 4-5 second lag between them. They are both in sync to themselves(audio/video). I talked to the phone tech, who called yesterday to once again verify that everything is working ok, and he said that is normal since they are "recording" in realtime, there can be differences in the boxes. He says all newbies to dvr's wonder about this.

Just a little weird for me since they are relatively close together. But no biggie.
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post #115 of 3340 Old 02-21-2006, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the phone tech was implying that on one of the DVRs, you must have 're-wound' 4-5 seconds. In other words, if you hit "Live TV" on each remote, they should be back in-synch as they will be in 'real-time'.

If he wasn't implying this, then I think he is full of $hit
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post #116 of 3340 Old 02-23-2006, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digital_dilemma View Post

I thought I was just having problems with the Fios Internet, but finally, when my wife complained that the Fios TV was going out, I was able to determine that whenever I log in to the Rhapsody Music Service it knocks Fios TV out. Not sure why, it's just a streaming music service.

I have experienced lost connectivity in my Lan (all systems) when and only when I connect to Rhapsody. This started when I had FIOS installed a few days ago. I use the wireless D-Link router that was installed with the FIOS. I had no trouble with Comcast. Any ideas?
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post #117 of 3340 Old 02-23-2006, 03:09 PM
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The techs just left after an easy install for them.

After showing up almost 3 hrs into their appointment window, they finished the wiring part of the install in about 1 hr. Another 1/2 hr later both the DVR and STB were up and running. They were professional and neat about the job - although not necessarily the most knowledgeable - they had no news about the planned networking of boxes later this year.

Happy for far with the service.
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post #118 of 3340 Old 02-24-2006, 08:06 AM
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Cable-pricing relief for Va. could be on way
House to vote today on a bill identical to one that the Senate passed yesterday
BY JEFFREY KELLEY
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Friday, February 24, 2006



Sharon Holman says she has a hard time affording her cable bills. Prices for Holman and thousands of other tube-watching Virginians could drop and service could improve with a bill meant to spawn cable competition.
DON LONG/TIMES-DISPATCH
Sharon Holman has nothing bad to say about her cable television service, except . . .

"I can't afford it, to be honest with you," said Holman, a Richmond resident who pays "half here, half there" on her cable bills. Still, she wants the digital channels and Internet connection of cable.

Prices for Holman and thousands of other tube-watching Virginians could drop and service could improve with a bill meant to spawn cable competition. Today, the House will vote on a bill identical to the one the Senate passed yesterday.

The bills come as Verizon Communications Inc. lays a fiber-optic network throughout parts of the state. The system will allow the telecommunications company to provide video services and compete directly with cable firms such as Comcast Corp.

Verizon backed a bill last year to help it provide video faster than state regulations allow, a move opposed by the cable industry in Virginia. The two sides met for a year and attempted to hammer out an agreed-upon bill.

That didn't happen, and lawmakers settled the differences with compromise legislation that neither side fully embraces nor abhors. Local governments then said the bill needed more municipal and consumer protections, and a few changes were made.

The latest compromise comes at the expense of some control from local governments, fairness among all providers of cable TV and the need for a larger investment from a company wanting to provide TV, such as Verizon.


Verizon's main gripe with the legislation is that it must build out its network to cover at least 65 percent of a locality within seven years. Over time, a city or county can ask the company to serve up to 80 percent of residents.

Verizon Virginia preferred to build its network at a pace it preferred. Company President Robert W. Woltz Jr. yesterday called the build-out commitment a "competitive barrier to entry" -- however, he is quick not to complain about the compromise.

Without being required to serve most of the residents in a municipality, as the cable industry has been for years, many argued that Verizon could skip over poor areas. Verizon denied the claim, and the new bills would prohibit the already illegal practice known as redlining.

Verizon has complained that the traditional practice of gaining "franchise agreements" from every locality it wants to plug into video takes too long at six to 18 months. The bills would allow Verizon and others to strike deals with localities in as little as 75 days.

That prospect worries Del. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico, who said yesterday that local governments could lose negotiating power to new cable companies.

Local governments also wanted more public-, educational- and government-access channels, because unknown future needs might require additional stations, said Linda Robinson, Henrico County's legislative liaison. The bills would give localities up to three more channels, with a cap at seven stations.

Cable operators can shut off underused public channels, but the bills would ensure that older stations can't get removed.

Under the bill, if a Virginia locality has at least two cable contracts created a year before July 1, the deals remain.

For instance, in September, Verizon gained a video contract in Fairfax County, where the existing TV provider is Cox Communications Inc. Under the deal, Verizon must serve 85 percent of the county within seven years, and Fairfax -- as well as four other Virginia localities with which the company has garnered deals -- would be unaffected by the legislation until the contract expires.

Verizon is building its network in Richmond and the counties of Henrico and Chesterfield, as well as areas in Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia.

Virginia Cable Telecommunications Association President Ray LaMura said yesterday that the legislation would make for "a level playing field [that] will enable customers to make the choices, and we look forward to competing."


Contact staff writer Jeffrey Kelley at jkelley@timesdispatch.com or (804) 649-6348.
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post #119 of 3340 Old 02-24-2006, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Belcherwm View Post

...
Sharon Holman says she has a hard time affording her cable bills. Prices for Holman and thousands of other tube-watching Virginians could drop and service could improve with a bill meant to spawn cable competition.

"I can't afford it, to be honest with you," said Holman, a Richmond resident who pays "half here, half there" on her cable bills. Still, she wants the digital channels and Internet connection of cable.
....

Since when did affordable cable become a right that requires government legislature to ensure?
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post #120 of 3340 Old 02-24-2006, 06:56 PM
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This is the only country in the world where you can officially listed as being below the poverty line yet still have cable TV.
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