How do you choose the best hdmi cable for the $? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: What hdmi brand are you using & are you happy?
Monster 48 13.87%
Belkin 22 6.36%
Arista 0 0%
Samsujng 2 0.58%
Dayton 3 0.87%
Extron 0 0%
Acoustic Research 13 3.76%
audioquest/cinemaquest 5 1.45%
XHD 2 0.58%
other 251 72.54%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 346. You may not vote on this poll

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post #181 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Well, nobody here actually said it was bad quality, but that was what people here were implying by getting mad at me because I choose to buy them. I thought that was the main reason why we've been arguing all this time.

Maybe you can find good quality cables at a cheaper price, but the problem is, you don't know for sure. You are taking a chance. You have to buy it, try it and then if it's good quality, you're in luck. If it's not good quality, then you just wasted money on garbage. At least with Monster cables, I'm 100% guaranteed that I'm not buying garbage cables.

I don't think anyone here was upset that you choose to buy them. Whatever you choose to do doesn't affect me. The argument was with your statement that (quoting your post):

"What is all this talk about cheap cables from Monoprice? I can't believe the number of cheapskates here. Suck it up and buy Monster cables. Yes, they're a little bit pricier, but they'll last longer and they will give you better quality in the long run. Sometimes, they're on sale at RadioShack. I bought them when they were 50% off and I couldn't be happier with them."

Skipping over the insults, basically you stated several things that are not backed up by anything but your beliefs and personal opinion:

1. Monster is a bit pricier when they are much more expensive.
2. They give you better quality, which is what most people here are concerned about. We have many posts here that have the opposite experience, that Monoprice cables are in fact just as good for most purposes as Monster cables, at a much reduced price.

No one implied anything denigrating the quality of Monster cables. The point was that the quality of the Monoprice cables is more than enough for most applications at an order of magnitude of price less. Four of these cables is a blueray player.
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post #182 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 09:22 AM
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I think the Poll results pretty much sums it all up!
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post #183 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

What is all this talk about cheap cables from Monoprice? I can't believe the number of cheapskates here. Suck it up and buy Monster cables.

Why should I/we?

Quote:


Yes, they're a little bit pricier,

No, they are a LOT more expensive.

Quote:


they'll last longer

Based on what testing, in what environment?

I actually fell prey to Monster advertising and a sales pitch for some speaker cables when I was much younger (almost 20 years ago). I still have those speaker cables as a reminder of why I will NEVER buy Monster products again. I could go into detail with photos, but the upshot of my experience is that the plain 14-gauge zip cord I bought at Home Depot lasted longer and performed better than the Monster Cable.

Quote:


and they will give you better quality in the long run.

"better quality"? In what way? Picture quality? Can't be that, as any digital cable meeting the HDMI spec will give the exact same picture. Audio quality? Can't be that - it's just another digital signal. Perceived quality? OK, how many $$$ is that worth?
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post #184 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Well enjoy it. But, the quality of those "inexpensive" cables are low and the picture quality is not at its peak.

OK, please explain to a few of the engineers on this board how a digital signal (HDMI) is going to be affected in any way other than obvious "sparklies" or pixel dropouts?

If the signal is within the receiving equipment's ability to decode, there will be no degradation in picture quality.
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post #185 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Fine, I'll agree with that comment. Maybe Monster Cables do cost more money, but for people here to say they're bad quality is just plain crazy talk.

The Monster HDMI cables aren't poor quality, but they are priced at 5-10x what a fair price should be.

The Monster speaker cables I have dealt with in the past were of EXTREMELY poor quality, and actually had smaller conductors made of lower-grade copper than basic zip-cord selling for 10% as much.

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I've had issues with buying cheap composite cables before. I'd either get some weird line on the screen or some humming sound from the audio.

Analog signals are different from digital. With an analog signal, there is ALWAYS some signal degradation induced by the cable. Differences in cable construction will change the type and amount of signal degradation.

However, I would point out that BlueJeansCable makes far better analog cables than Monster, for lower prices. I can't speak for Monoprice in this area, as I have not used their analog cables.

Quote:


And when I bought a "digital" audio coax cable for my home theater, I got frequent drop outs of audio. And I'll remind you that this is a "digital" cable that transmits a digital audio signal.

Sure it's a digital signal. What spec was your cheap coax cable tested to? (I'm assuming it wasn't tested to ANY spec.) This is different from HDMI in that HDMI has specific test requirements - there is no corresponding standard for a normal SPDIF connection.

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So, I replaced them all with Monster cables and all those problems were eliminated. No more line on the screen, no more humming sound, and no more audio drop out.

Very believable, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with HDMI, nor does it have anything to do with Monoprice, BlueJeans, or any of the other reputable low-price cables mentioned in this thread.
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post #186 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 10:53 AM
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Whoa! Three essays to respond to. Too many things to say that I haven't said already.

You guys aren't saying that all cables are constructed the same way, whether they're Monster on "inexpensive" ones? I bet those monoprice cables aren't even gold-plated or can even transmit 1080p signals.

Quote:


The Monster speaker cables I have dealt with in the past were of EXTREMELY poor quality, and actually had smaller conductors made of lower-grade copper than basic zip-cord selling for 10% as much.

You do realize that Monster sells low end cables and high end ones as well. Buy the high end ones. Oh wait. I'm sorry. It costs too much. Well never mind then.
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post #187 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

You guys aren't saying that all cables are constructed the same way, whether they're Monster on "inexpensive" ones? I bet those monoprice cables aren't even gold-plated or can even transmit 1080p signals.

Clearly, you don't have a clue about what Monoprice sells, or know much about the HDMI spec. Any cable that is HDMI Category 2 compliant can carry 1080p.

I suggest you do some research on the specs you seem to be so fond of not quoting. You could start here:

http://www.hdmi.com/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=3#15

Here's a quote for you, from the HDMI spec FAQ:

Quote:


Q. What’s new in the HDMI 1.3 Specification?

> Higher speed: Although all previous versions of HDMI have had more than enough bandwidth to support all current HDTV formats, including full, uncompressed 1080p signals, HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates.

In short, any salesman who tells you that you need a cable rated for HDMI 1.3a to be compatible with 1080p is either lying, misinformed, or just plain ignorant. I've heard several salespeople in big-box stores tell people this and use it as an excuse to up-sell them into an expensive Monster HDMI cable that they simply didn't need.

Quote:


You do realize that Monster sells low end cables and high end ones as well. Buy the high end ones. Oh wait. I'm sorry. It costs too much. Well never mind then.

The ones that crapped out WERE the high end Monster line, bought at a VERY high-end store (any place that stocks a pair of the $250K McIntosh speakers can safely be considered high-end, dontcha think?). To be fair, the two salesmen at that store that I work with never tried to convince me that I needed to buy Monster - I did that to myself, since I was young and naive. Since then, they have started carrying a much lower-priced, higher-quality line of cables that they recommend. Interestingly, though, a lot of people still come in and request Monster by name - and the store will happily take their money (why wouldn't they?).

Have you ever noticed that Monster never puts standard wire gauge info on their speaker wires? Are you aware that this is the single most important specification for speaker wire? Why do you think they would systematically refuse to provide the single most important piece of data for one of their flagship products? Hmmmmm....perhaps it's because their marketing is designed to convince people who don't understand the technology that they should spend more $$$$? Maybe?

You need to realize that you are arguing with a group of people who know an awful lot about this subject, and you have made multiple statements that simply cannot be backed up with facts. for myself, I may not be the world's biggest expert on high-speed cable design, but I am an engineer with multiple patents and a lot of design experience under my belt. I recognize snake oil when I see it.
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post #188 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

I bet those monoprice cables aren't even gold-plated or can even transmit 1080p signals.

Tired of running uphill yet?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...#specification
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post #189 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 11:32 AM
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In short, any salesman who tells you that you need a cable rated for HDMI 1.3a to be compatible with 1080p is either lying, misinformed, or just plain ignorant. I've heard several salespeople in big-box stores tell people this and use it as an excuse to up-sell them into an expensive Monster HDMI cable that they simply didn't need.

Ah, salesmen! I forgot about that. Talk to a salesman at Best Buy and they'll also tell you that you need Monster Cables for the best, possible quality. Call them liars or whatever you want, but I personally know a few people that work there. They don't lie about stuff like that. They just know more about that stuff than you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Tired of running uphill yet?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...#specification

Wow, you actually believe that?! Like I said, my uncle bought some monoprice cables that were "gold-plated" but they really weren't. Also, those cables are also very thin, which is not good especially for HDMI cables. The Monster ones are thicker, which makes them less susceptible to interference and will therefore, produce better quality. Oh and I advise you to stay away from 6 ft cables if your equipment is less than 6 feet apart. The longer your cable is, the more signal degradation you'll get. Oh wait, you guys don't believe in signal degradation. Never mind then
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post #190 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MauneyM View Post

You need to realize that you are arguing with a group of people who know an awful lot about this subject, and you have made multiple statements that simply cannot be backed up with facts. for myself, I may not be the world's biggest expert on high-speed cable design, but I am an engineer with multiple patents and a lot of design experience under my belt. I recognize snake oil when I see it.

Uh, you guys don't know a thing or else we wouldn't be having this argument. I don't "think" Monster cables are better, I know. I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about.
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post #191 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Uh, you guys don't know a thing or else we wouldn't be having this argument. I don't "think" Monster cables are better, I know. I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about.

Which one of these should I buy for my 1080p Sammy?

http://www.monstercable.com/home_av/hdmi.asp

Which one do you have?
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post #192 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

.... Talk to a salesman at Best Buy and they'll also tell you that you need Monster Cables for the best, possible quality. Call them liars or whatever you want, but I personally know a few people that work there. They don't lie about stuff like that. They just know more about that stuff than you.
......

Again, I'm speechless.

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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Uh, you guys don't know a thing or else we wouldn't be having this argument. I don't "think" Monster cables are better, I know. I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about.

How long is "all of my life"?

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
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post #193 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BVfan View Post

Which one of these should I buy for my 1080p Sammy?

http://www.monstercable.com/home_av/hdmi.asp

Which one do you have?

I have this one: http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3832
I have the 4 ft. one, which is not listed there for some reason.

But wow, I see what you guys are talking about. I got that on sale for $20 at RadioShack. I say, wait for a sale. Don't buy it at that site.
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post #194 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

I have this one: http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3832
I have the 4 ft. one, which is not listed there for some reason.

But wow, I see what you guys are talking about. I got that on sale for $20 at RadioShack. I say, wait for a sale. Don't buy it at that site.

Cheapest site on line had a 1 meter 700HD like yours for $44.95. Cheapest I have ever seen any Monster product is 50% off at electronics stores going out of business. Your price is very unusual, but sometimes RS does stuff like that.
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post #195 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BVfan View Post

Your price is very unusual, but sometimes RS does stuff like that.

It was on sale. 50% off. I don't know why they had the sale, but they do that sometimes and I take advantage of it.
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post #196 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 01:07 PM
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Sorry. Double post. Disregard this.
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post #197 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Also, those cables are also very thin, which is not good especially for HDMI cables. The Monster ones are thicker, which makes them less susceptible to interference and will therefore, produce better quality.

I suggest you do some research - maybe a basic electronics course? Ever heard of Faraday's laws? Ohm's law? Some basic theory regarding shielding and mutual inductance might help you understand what we're trying to tell you.

Your statement here is enough to prove that you do not understand the most basic concepts of how signals travel in a cable.

Quote:


Oh and I advise you to stay away from 6 ft cables if your equipment is less than 6 feet apart. The longer your cable is, the more signal degradation you'll get. Oh wait, you guys don't believe in signal degradation.

No, we all "believe" in signal degradation. However, the guys you are trying to argue with actually understand what signal degradation means, and also understand how to read an eye pattern on a scope.

Now, I'll ask for your technical opinion - what difference is there between a signal that is very slightly inside - say 25% - the allowable tolerance for a digital input as opposed to a signal that is 50% of the way between the ideal and the limit? How does the input detection circuit respond to this difference, and why is it significant? What would you expect the impact to be on the picture displayed on the screen? Why?

Also, since you seem to be an "expert", I'll ask you this: What is the danger in going beyond 6 feet unnecessarily? Which of the following effects would expect the difference to be manifested in?

> Increased signal rise time
> Reduced peak signal voltage
> Increased hysteresis in the transmitter
> Increased hysteresis in the receiver
> Increased conducted EMI
> Increased radiated EMI
> Increased conducted EMI susceptibility
> Increased radiated EMI susceptibility

Once you've told us which if these you expect to be the danger of on overly-long cable, then you should be able to describe why that is. What physical mechanism acting within the cable do you expect will be the cause for the reduced performance?

Quote:


I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about.

"Both worlds"? Which two worlds would those be? I'm guessing that digital electronics design isn't one of them...

Quote:


Talk to a salesman at Best Buy and they'll also tell you that you need Monster Cables for the best, possible quality. Call them liars or whatever you want, but I personally know a few people that work there. They don't lie about stuff like that. They just know more about that stuff than you.

Uhmmm....yeah, right.

The last time I asked a Best Buy salesman about a display's handling of 1080p/24, he really put me in my place with his superior knowledge. Especially when he went to his website to try to figure out what I meant by 5:5 pulldown vs. 3:2. Yeah, those part-time college students know a lot more about electronics design than a 20-year veteran engineer.....

Please tell me this was a troll response....
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post #198 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Call them liars or whatever you want, but I personally know a few people that work there. They don't lie about stuff like that. They just know more about that stuff than you.

Ha-ha... No they don't lie. And 98% of them don't know any better than....... perhaps you?


Quote:


Wow, you actually believe that?! Like I said, my uncle bought some monoprice cables that were "gold-plated" but they really weren't.

And 99% of connectors are not "real" gold. It's only gold in coloring.

Quote:


Also, those cables are also very thin, which is not good especially for HDMI cables. The Monster ones are thicker, which makes them less susceptible to interference and will therefore, produce better quality.

Bleh.... read the spec's on gauges of the cable your buy. They are basically the same. The gauge is typically thicker based on the length of cable. No need for 22AWG for short runs.

Quote:


Oh and I advise you to stay away from 6 ft cables if your equipment is less than 6 feet apart. The longer your cable is, the more signal degradation you'll get. Oh wait, you guys don't believe in signal degradation. Never mind then

You should read the selections. You can get 1.5' to xx'.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...02&cp_id=10240

Seriously.... you make many assumptions and have many misconceptions. Enjoy your Mon$ter cables.... just don't try to reel in others with your myths.

Back to school on Monday. Finish your dinner and finish your homework before beddy-byes.
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post #199 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 01:31 PM
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Wow! This is great reading.

I knew lots of Best Buy employees and none of them were well versed in anything but selling extended warranties. I also happen to work part time at a Radio Shack and have used and sold lots of way over priced Radio Shack and Monster cables. We also sell "lessor" brands and I cringe when people insist on buying the "high end" stuff when they could have bought brand X for 1/4 the cost and not noticed a lick of difference. In fact, in a pinch I recently bought a $60 Radio Shack HDMI cable (no I didn't pay that much) because I gave my lowly Monoprice cable to my In-Laws so they could watch their new Blu-Ray player. I ordered a new one from Monoprice and it was not only less $$ but it was lower gauge and better built. I returned the Radio Shack cable.

To sum up, Monoprice cables are very well made and a bargain at the prices they sell for. Monster Cable and other high end brands are way overpriced and in most cases are not worth it.
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post #200 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by knightc2 View Post

In fact, in a pinch I recently bought a $60 Radio Shack HDMI cable (no I didn't pay that much) because I gave my lowly Monoprice cable to my In-Laws so they could watch their new Blu-Ray player. I ordered a new one from Monoprice and it was not only less $$ but it was lower gauge and better built. I returned the Radio Shack cable.

Uh, did you even try the RadioShack ones? It should be a night and day difference.
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post #201 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 02:25 PM
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Uh... have you ever tried Monoprice cables? May be no difference compared to Mon$ter...
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post #202 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Uh... have you ever tried Monoprice cables? May be no difference compared to Mon$ter...

Must I repeat everything?
"I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about."
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post #203 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 02:42 PM
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Must I ask again... have you tried cables from Monoprice?

How long is "all of your life"?
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post #204 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Must I ask again... have you tried cables from Monoprice?

What part of "both worlds" don't you get? YES, I've tried them and I've tried many other "inexpensive" ones too. Monster cables are better. Apparently, I'm dealing with people that don't know how to read plain English. No, wonder why Monoprice was able to brainwash you.

Believe me or not. I don't care. It's your loss not mine.

Seriously, how much is Monoprice paying you people to market their cables? If it's good money they're paying, then maybe I'll join your team.
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post #205 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 02:57 PM
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Okay. Even though I don't believe you, that's okay. It can end here.

Again... the poll and everyone else must be wrong.

No brainwashing whatsoever from Monoprice. They don't jack up prices to offset advertising/marketing costs that get passed on to the consumer.

I've experienced "both worlds" all of my life.
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post #206 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Uh, did you even try the RadioShack ones? It should be a night and day difference.


As far as picture quality is concerned they were identical. I returned them because I saved $5 by buying at monoprice. Night and Day? If it was really a night and day difference most of the folks here would pay the extra $$$ and buy the Monster Cable products. The only thing that is night and day is the price.
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post #207 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by knightc2 View Post

If it was really a night and day difference most of the folks here would pay the extra $$$ and buy the Monster Cable products. The only thing that is night and day is the price.

LOL, people just look at the Monster price tags and they automatically stay away from them.
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post #208 of 357 Old 12-31-2008, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

LOL, people just look at the Monster price tags and they automatically stay away from them.

No. People who understand the underlying technology define the specs their components must meet - including cables - then purchase the product(s) that meet their specs at the best value. While your favorite product may meet the required spec, it is well-known as one of the worst values on the market.

You clearly don't understand the specification, so you don't seem to have set yourself a clear spec target to meet the requirements of your system. I am assuming that this has resulted in your buying into the snake oil sales pitch.

I also noted that you have yet to back up any of your claims with any sort of technical explanation of WHY your particular brand of HDMI cable will perform better than anything else on the market. Simply stating that you see a "huge difference" doesn't cut it on a forum that is heavily focused on verifiable claims and hard data.

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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

Must I repeat everything?
"I've dealt with both worlds all of my life, so I know what I'm talking about."

You also have yet to explain what you mean by "both worlds". Must we repeat every question?
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post #209 of 357 Old 01-01-2009, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by xraffle View Post

LOL, people just look at the Monster price tags and they automatically stay away from them.

I beg to differ. MOST people that have been following HD technology since its inception input to this forum. For MANY quality and early adaption has been at a high cost. Part of the reason many of us come here is to get input from experienced people in their chosen field, like MauneyM.

If Monster products would show even a 20% increase in quality/performance over other less expensive products, many people in this forum would have no problem spending the extra money. Real world bench tests do not show Monster products to be superior to less expensive products with similar specs.

Personal perception is another world, which must be one of the "both" worlds you speak of. If a person perceives something to be superior, then in their mind it is. This gives one piece of mind with their buying decision. Nothing wrong with that.

The thing about the Best Buy employees, my son's friend works there ... it is easy to trash them, but they have training seminars given by Monster salesman - they are told to sell up -- they get awesome discounts and sometimes free samples of Monster products - why wouldn't you push the product.
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post #210 of 357 Old 01-01-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BVfan View Post

I beg to differ. MOST people that have been following HD technology since its inception input to this forum. For MANY quality and early adaption has been at a high cost. Part of the reason many of us come here is to get input from experienced people in their chosen field, like MauneyM.

Oh, give me a break. He doesn't know a thing. He's got you all brainwashed.

Quote:


If Monster products would show even a 20% increase in quality/performance over other less expensive products, many people in this forum would have no problem spending the extra money. Real world bench tests do not show Monster products to be superior to less expensive products with similar specs.

The problem is: none of you even tried the Monster products. You look at the price, freak out, and buy monoprice because they're cheaper.

I can understand you people prefer Monoprice cables because they're cheaper and seem to give decent quality. But to say that Monster and Monoprice cables have the same EXACT quality is just plain crazy talk.

Oh and btw, I visited my uncle and I took a look at his so-called "gold-plated" HDMI cables that he got from Monoprice. It turns out, it wasn't even gold-plated, it was silver, even though it was advertised as gold-plated. So, don't believe all the specs you see at monoprice.com. I'll be glad to provide the link and a picture of what he received as evidence. Let me know if you would like me to prove it.
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