DirecTV MPEG4 Installation & Hardware - Master Topic II (Continued) - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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post #2251 of 2268 Old 02-21-2009, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by pclement View Post

... (Please correct me , if I am wrong about this.) MTRUNZ is correct that the new D* receivers do not have OTA tuners and he will need to purchase a used H20 to use a D* receiver for OTA. ...

A word to the wise. With a very narrow exception (see below), you cannot "purchase" a used H20. They all belong to D*. If you buy one from someone on eBay, it is very likely stolen or should have been returned to D* and wasn't. (Same thing.) When you go to activate it, you lose.

The narrow exception is that when they first came out - early January 2006 I believe until March 1, 2006 - they were available for purchase. I did so. Most of those boxes were purchased with a rebate from D* that required the H20 boxes to be returned to D* if you canceled your subscription. I did that, too, so I know from experience. (Leaving was a mistake and I have been back with D* for 15 months now.)

H20-600 HD STBs now have been recalled by D* That was the model first issued. (They ran too hot and are now considered defective.) That's a further impediment to "buying one." All subsequent models such as the H20-100 are leased only. They were never offered for sale. No one "owns" one so no one can sell one.

Sorry to pound on this subject but I presume no one wants to throw their money away.

Dana

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post #2252 of 2268 Old 02-22-2009, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pclement View Post

Jumping in a little late here, but if MTRUNZ wants to receive D* HD he will need to upgrade his dish to a Slimline dish. I have been informed by D* and members of this forum that D* HD will only be MPEG-4 in the near future and a Slimline dish and H20 or later receiver is required. Although the H20 can process MEPG-4, I do not think that a Phase 3 dish will work. (Please correct me , if I am wrong about this.) MTRUNZ is correct that the new D* receivers do not have OTA tuners and he will need to purchase a used H20 to use a D* receiver for OTA.

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Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

A word to the wise. With a very narrow exception (see below), you cannot "purchase" a used H20. They all belong to D*. If you buy one from someone on eBay, it is very likely stolen or should have been returned to D* and wasn't. (Same thing.) When you go to activate it, you lose.

The narrow exception is that when they first came out - early January 2006 I believe until March 1, 2006 - they were available for purchase. I did so. Most of those boxes were purchased with a rebate from D* that required the H20 boxes to be returned to D* if you canceled your subscription. I did that, too, so I know from experience. (Leaving was a mistake and I have been back with D* for 15 months now.)

H20-600 HD STBs now have been recalled by D* That was the model first issued. (They ran too hot and are now considered defective.) That's a further impediment to "buying one." All subsequent models such as the H20-100 are leased only. They were never offered for sale. No one "owns" one so no one can sell one.

Sorry to pound on this subject but I presume no one wants to throw their money away.

Dana


Thanks for the advice. I'll look into that but D* just installed the P3 dish a few months ago and said it was the dish everyone with HD was being upgraded to per company directive. It was actually the district service manager who installed it and told me this. He left me his card so I'll have to call him for clarification.
I also wanted to share with Dana what D* explained to me about buying used D* HD receivers. You can still legally buy a new D* receiver IF you want to pay a steep price so as long as there are pre "owned" receivers out there, they can be legally re-sold. D* explained this when I called to inquire about used receivers. The assumption that nearly ALL used HD receivers are leased is good advice so your warning should be taken seriously. That being said, if you follow D*'s instructions, you can easily verify the receiver's history BEFORE you buy. The procedure is simple. Start by asking the seller for the RID (receiver ID) number that appears on the rear panel sticker. If the seller refuses or says there is no RID, DO NOT PROCEED. To make sure the receiver is not owned by D* (the seller can face fraud charges and fines if the receiver was a lease), call D* and have them check the RID number to see if the receiver was previously leased or owned. They will check the history on the spot and tell you if it's ok to buy. I just bought a used H20 after D* verified it was previously "owned" and fully legit. To be on the safe side, I called again the next day to make sure thier info was accurate and it was. I had no trouble activating the receiver but I had to wait a few days for a new access card. A word of warning to buyers & sellers: CYA and call the RID in before you try to buy or sell one. It isn't worth the risk.
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post #2253 of 2268 Old 02-23-2009, 05:13 AM
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To clarify this.
It is correct that the Phase III dish will NOT receive any of the HD channels because it can't see the satellites in the 99 and 103 slots. There are a few HD channels on 110 and 119 but these are already mirrored on 99, and the 110/119 versions will be removed very soon, so you need a slimline dish in order to receive HD.
The comments and advice about DirecTV receivers/DVRs is generally correct. However only certain revisions of the H20-600 receiver were recalled. If you look under the receiver and there is no paper sticker showing the H20-600 is at ECO 2.0 then the receiver was subject to recall. I am not sure DirecTV is still processing the recall, there's a long thread on this at http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138686 The H20-600 is susceptible to overheating but that was NOT the reason for the recall. Still, I would be very careful about buying an H20-600 because many of them have been "cooked" and are already failing.
As far as owned vs lease is concerned, the advice in the post from mtrunz is very important. There are in fact many H20-600s out there that are owned, and some H20-100s - I have one of each and they are both "owned". Most of the HR2x DVRs out there are leased, but again there are a few "owned" units. I have three DVRs and two of them are "owned". If you see an HR21PRO out there, it is almost certainly "owned" since almost all were sold only to commercial establishments and there was no lease program. But as mtrunz has posted, it's very important to check the receiver/DVR numbers with DirecTV before you buy ANY HD boxes from eBay, Craig's list etc. Many of the boxes offered for "sale" out there are in fact leased boxes and DirecTV will refuse to activate them, so you will be left with an unusable piece of equipment. This even applies to boxes you might get from a relative - you can't use them, they need to be returned to DirecTV.
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post #2254 of 2268 Old 02-23-2009, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasbrit View Post

This even applies to boxes you might get from a relative - you can't use them, they need to be returned to DirecTV.

Does DirecTV really want them back? My H20-600 was replaced back in September, but the technician just left it lying in the middle of my floor. It doesn't show up on my account.

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post #2255 of 2268 Old 02-23-2009, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

Does DirecTV really want them back? My H20-600 was replaced back in September, but the technician just left it lying in the middle of my floor. It doesn't show up on my account.

Follow the advice of texasbrit above. Call D*. If they want it back, they'll send a prepaid shipper box.

Dana

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post #2256 of 2268 Old 02-23-2009, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

Follow the advice of texasbrit above. Call D*. If they want it back, they'll send a prepaid shipper box.

Dana

If it was replaced because it was faulty, they may not want it back. But I agree with drbonbi - check with DirecTV. Some people have posted that they got charged by DirecTV because a box was not returned.
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post #2257 of 2268 Old 02-23-2009, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasbrit View Post

If it was replaced because it was faulty, they may not want it back. But I agree with drbonbi - check with DirecTV. Some people have posted that they got charged by DirecTV because a box was not returned.

I've heard that too. Actually, when D* checked the RID on my H20-100, they said that at the very least, the original subscriber of a leased receiver will be charged full price if it turns up in the possesion of anyone but them. This may not apply to units D* considers defective but I also wouldn't assume they don't want those back. Make the call and find out. I also agree that the H20-600 model should be avoided. I'm sure there are many 600's that have never had a problem but with the reputation they have, I wouldn't even buy one if it was still in a sealed box. My luck is such that it would be one of the defective units out there. I made sure I purchased the -100.
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post #2258 of 2268 Old 02-23-2009, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by texasbrit View Post

To clarify this.
It is correct that the Phase III dish will NOT receive any of the HD channels because it can't see the satellites in the 99 and 103 slots. There are a few HD channels on 110 and 119 but these are already mirrored on 99, and the 110/119 versions will be removed very soon, so you need a slimline dish in order to receive HD.

Do you have timeline as to when the slim will need to be installed to continue HD reception? It sounds like a huge screw up that D* would make a mandatory dish change to the P3 in August only to have to install the slim a few months later. Maybe I'm crazy and the dish I have is actually the slim but the installer refered to it as a Phase 3 more than once and said that I wouldn't get HD for much longer if they didn't install this newest dish. Hmmmmm. Is there a visual difference between the two? Do I recall correctly that I had previously read posts that said the slim only runs one cable out of the LNB? If so, I have 4 cables from my current dish's LNB into my attic which would indicate a P3.
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post #2259 of 2268 Old 02-24-2009, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrunz View Post

Do you have timeline as to when the slim will need to be installed to continue HD reception? It sounds like a huge screw up that D* would make a mandatory dish change to the P3 in August only to have to install the slim a few months later. Maybe I'm crazy and the dish I have is actually the slim but the installer refered to it as a Phase 3 more than once and said that I wouldn't get HD for much longer if they didn't install this newest dish. Hmmmmm. Is there a visual difference between the two? Do I recall correctly that I had previously read posts that said the slim only runs one cable out of the LNB? If so, I have 4 cables from my current dish's LNB into my attic which would indicate a P3.

The Phase III dish is round. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...cid=3124252157 The SlimLine is oval and is pictured here. http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite...enna_types.asp

Dana

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post #2260 of 2268 Old 02-24-2009, 05:26 AM
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The Phase III dish is not round. It is oval (see the link above that states the dish is 18" x 22"). The Slimline dish is also oval, but is bigger and requires a larger support post.
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post #2261 of 2268 Old 02-24-2009, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pclement View Post

The Phase III dish is not round. It is oval (see the link above that states the dish is 18" x 22"). The Slimline dish is also oval, but is bigger and requires a larger support post.

The Phase III dish is oval and is 18x20. The Slimline dish is 22.5x32.5. If you have a Slimline dish it will say "slimline" on it.

I suspect the tech was installing slimline dishes but was calling them Phase III. If not there will be many unhappy customers, the Phase III only gets a few HD channels and they will be gone very soon.
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post #2262 of 2268 Old 02-24-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pclement View Post

The Phase III dish is not round. It is oval (see the link above that states the dish is 18" x 22"). The Slimline dish is also oval, but is bigger and requires a larger support post.

I should have said the Phase III dish "looks" round. At least far more so than the Slimline. Maybe it's "rounder" than the Slimline.

Anyway, one sure way to determine the type is to hold down the remote INFO key. That will bring up "System Setup" in the Menu. With the Slimline, under Satellite Dish> Dish Type mine reads "5 LNB, Multi-Sat."

Dana

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post #2263 of 2268 Old 02-24-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

The Phase III dish is round. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...cid=3124252157 The SlimLine is oval and is pictured here. http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite...enna_types.asp

Dana

Thanks for the clarification Dana. The installer must have had a brain fart when referring to my new dish as the P3. It is indeed, the slim. Hey, I don't care what he called it as long as he installed the right dish. Now, this leads me to another question. I plan to set up a 5x8 multiswitch distribution point before I add a few new lines. This way, I can mutliplex my OTA and Sat lines instead of running one for each source. The question is, will the 5x8 (for 3 satellite systems) which was P3 compatible still be SWIM compatible? I have a feeling I need a new multiswitch.
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post #2264 of 2268 Old 02-25-2009, 09:17 AM
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Thanks for the clarification Dana. The installer must have had a brain fart when referring to my new dish as the P3. It is indeed, the slim. Hey, I don't care what he called it as long as he installed the right dish. Now, this leads me to another question. I plan to set up a 5x8 multiswitch distribution point before I add a few new lines. This way, I can mutliplex my OTA and Sat lines instead of running one for each source. The question is, will the 5x8 (for 3 satellite systems) which was P3 compatible still be SWIM compatible? I have a feeling I need a new multiswitch.

You can't use a multiswitch with an SWM system. But I don't think you have an SWM system, you said you have four cables from the dish so that makes it a Slimline (probably an SL5 but it could be an SL3).
Anyway you can't use your old 5x8 because it won't pass any of the signals from the DirecTV10 and DirecTV11 satellites. You need a Zinwell WB68. And you can't diplex OTA for the same reason the old 5x8 won't work, the OTA signals are in the same frequency band as the signals from DirecTV10 and 11. You really need to run separate cables for OTA, it is by far the simplest and most reliable solution, although there are a couple of other different approaches/workarounds, none of them approved by DirecTV for reasons I'll mention.
First, you could replace the LNB in your dish with an SL5S, the SWM version of the SL5. SWM moves all the signals to different frequency bands and so the OTA and sat signals don't overlap. Then you can use a diplexer to connect the OTA to the sat cable, and diplexers at each TV to separate them out. The SWM connects to the house through a single cable and then you use SWS splitters to connect to each SWM-compatible DVR. The reason DirecTV does not officially "support" this diplexing is that some diplexers interfere with the signals between the receivers and the SWM.

The second option, which can work only with HD DVRs and receivers that have BBCs (i.e. NOT the H23 or HR23) is to move the BBC away from the reciver to the output of the multiswitch. So a line where you want OTA will go dish>WB68>BBC>diplexer with OTA in from antenna>cable run to receiver>diplexer for OTA "out">receiver. The BBC is not designed to be used at a distance from a receiver but if the cable is a good one and the distance is not too great then it works fine (I use this approach with no problems).
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post #2265 of 2268 Old 02-27-2009, 09:32 AM
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As of 02/25/09, D* has moved the Showtime HD channel from the 70's channels to the 500's channels. I assume that you now need a Slimline dish to receive the Premium Channels in HD from D*.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pclement View Post

As of 02/25/09, D* has moved the Showtime HD channel from the 70's channels to the 500's channels. I assume that you now need a Slimline dish to receive the Premium Channels in HD from D*.

If that's true, a lot of HR10 people will no longer be able to hold out. I'm holding on to one of mine, but I use it mainly for OTA anyway, so it's not a big deal. Plus, I'm holding onto it hopefully to get the HR30 (my number!), the new HD TiVo, for a good deal. I replaced one of my two HR10s, and D* did a replacement with a HR10 refurb for free.

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post #2267 of 2268 Old 02-27-2009, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by texasbrit View Post

You can't use a multiswitch with an SWM system. But I don't think you have an SWM system, you said you have four cables from the dish so that makes it a Slimline (probably an SL5 but it could be an SL3).
Anyway you can't use your old 5x8 because it won't pass any of the signals from the DirecTV10 and DirecTV11 satellites. You need a Zinwell WB68. And you can't diplex OTA for the same reason the old 5x8 won't work, the OTA signals are in the same frequency band as the signals from DirecTV10 and 11. You really need to run separate cables for OTA, it is by far the simplest and most reliable solution, although there are a couple of other different approaches/workarounds, none of them approved by DirecTV for reasons I'll mention.
First, you could replace the LNB in your dish with an SL5S, the SWM version of the SL5. SWM moves all the signals to different frequency bands and so the OTA and sat signals don't overlap. Then you can use a diplexer to connect the OTA to the sat cable, and diplexers at each TV to separate them out. The SWM connects to the house through a single cable and then you use SWS splitters to connect to each SWM-compatible DVR. The reason DirecTV does not officially "support" this diplexing is that some diplexers interfere with the signals between the receivers and the SWM.

The second option, which can work only with HD DVRs and receivers that have BBCs (i.e. NOT the H23 or HR23) is to move the BBC away from the reciver to the output of the multiswitch. So a line where you want OTA will go dish>WB68>BBC>diplexer with OTA in from antenna>cable run to receiver>diplexer for OTA "out">receiver. The BBC is not designed to be used at a distance from a receiver but if the cable is a good one and the distance is not too great then it works fine (I use this approach with no problems).

Slim/Swim, I guess my brain doesn't work as fast as my fingers typed (for once!). I meant to type SLIM which is definitely what I have. Thanks for the suggestions regarding my distribution options. I guess I have a new 5 x 8 multiswitch and a box of unopened diplexers for sale. Only 2 of the 4 D* lines were ever run into the house so it sounds like the simplest thing for me to do is to run one more line to the new 3rd D* receiver and then just use my Dist. amp to boost the OTA signal before splitting it to all 5 sets. The hardest part will be putting the switch and diplexers on ebay. Thanks for the great advice.
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post #2268 of 2268 Old 06-03-2009, 09:46 AM
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Has anyone here seen the Sat-Go unit? I'm interested in hearing feedback pro and con.

ÂOne of the few good things about modern times: If you die horribly on television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained us.Â
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