I bet you did NOT Know - TWC does not support HDMI - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm in a battle with Time Warner Cable. According to TWC, they do NOT support the HDMI functions of their service. They provide you with boxes that may....or may not have an HDMI connection ( I have had 3 different boxes so far, 2 had a HDMI and 1 did not )

If you HDMI connection on the box provided by TWC works on your HDTV, you got lucky.

Here is the salt in the wound for extra sting: Their attitude and arrogance for a solution. I went to their office in person and spoke to them over the phone and got the same LAME excuses.

TWC: "Yes we know we have a problem with our PACE boxes, and PACE knows it too" ( Yet instead of pulling a defective product from service you continue to use them).....So much for TWC quality control

TWC: " The cost of the HDMI cables is too expensive"......at Radio Shack the cables are too expensive, on Amazon I got a good HDMI for $6.

TWC gave me 2 different boxes with HDMI connections yesterday. 1 was a DVR type box from Scientific Atlanta 8300 that works on all 3 of my HDTV's ( so you know all 3 tv's are OK, and so is the connecting HDMI cable )

The second box was an HDMI box by PACE, the HDMI failed.

TWC provided me with 2 boxes, 1 is ok and the other is defective and they don't care.

When you call TWC for tech support, they tell you you are on your own for HDMI, they only support the Component type ( R,G,B, with R&W audio ) connections

Why we should all be angry: All the new HDTV's have 2 or 3 HDMI type connections. You should have the option which connection you want to use for any device you want to connect. My Sharp LCD has 5 inputs, my Pioneer has 6. According to TWC.....33 or 40% of my available inputs can NOT be used for their service.

Do any of us really want to spend $$$ on these HDTV's and then find out you can NOT use all of it's functions because the cable company has a policy " We DON'T SUPPORT HDMI"?
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post #2 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 08:54 AM
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I'm surprised that they didn't just give you a new box and pass the defective one off on some other poor sucker. Would make you happy and perhaps the other guy wouldn't use HDMI and thus would never know his loss.
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post #3 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 09:06 AM
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We get this same problem in Canada for the Pace boxes and Videotron. I'm not sure what Rogers uses for their boxes (I'm a Cogeco customer), but I've heard tell that they don't support HDMI either.

The PACE boxes for Videotron do have HDMI outputs, but the handshakes are flakey and the availability of the HDMI output is not dependable; the image flickers in and out, the colors get distorted, there's too much latency when switching channels.

Your best bet, if you really want to use HDMI, is to invest in your own cable box, ensuring that the manufacturer complies with all the latest HDMI versions and is HDCP licensed.


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post #4 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bak_phy View Post

I'm surprised that they didn't just give you a new box and pass the defective one off on some other poor sucker. Would make you happy and perhaps the other guy wouldn't use HDMI and thus would never know his loss.

1. TWC company policy of NOT supporting HDMI with a good luck you are on your own attiude

2. All of our HDTV have HDMI connections that we may / maynot be able to use.

3. HDMI is not going away anytime soon.

4. I'm not an HDMI fan, but I want the option of being able to use the function if I choose too. The idea that 40% of my available inputs are un-useable because TWC does not support the function is un-acceptable to me.

5. It's a little like the old model T cars you had to crank to start. Time Warner says we support the car, but not the crank to start it with. They support HD....but not HDMI
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post #5 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, those Pace boxes do blow. I have TWC in San Diego. The HDMI connection does not work with the box. My DVD player works fine with HDMI on either input I choose on my Samsung so I figured it's there crappy boxes.
I'm gonna try switching boxes and hope I get lucky. In the meantime I'll keep using the component connection.
By the way, I had a one of their techs come out and I don't think he knew anymore than I did!
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post #6 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I live in San Diego and I'm stuck with Time Warner Cable. TWC is NOT a small company.

TWC is acting like there is nothing they can do about a lousy product like the Pace boxes for HDMI.

I have told them " You are Time Warner !...Not Larry the Cable Guy "....if Pace can't get it right....lean on them .....use your leverage as a big company....You would think TWC would have watched The Soprano's to learn how to muscle a bit...

If GM needs a tire.....and went to Firestone....Goodyear...etc....and said I need a tire made for me that works..........You think GM would get it ?

You think if TWC goes to the HDMI box makers and says I need HDMI functions that work.........they could get one ?
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post #7 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 10:13 AM
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Just get DVR boxes. The SA ones all work fine. Rather than fret about it pay the extra few $ a month. If that doesn't work then switch to a different provider and tell them why...
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post #8 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 10:14 AM
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On a side note, my Motorola 6412 works great with HDMI.


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post #9 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aatk View Post

Just get DVR boxes. The SA ones all work fine. Rather than fret about it pay the extra few $ a month. If that doesn't work then switch to a different provider and tell them why...

TWC does not want to exchange the PACE boxes with the Sci Atlanta 8300 DVR type without charging $9.95 per month /per box. I have 3 boxes, I only need 1 DVR type box....the other 2 just need working HDMI connections.

There is not many switching provider options. Time Warner....satellite....or antenna.......the other 2 have their own issues as well


Besides.....My central point is that the cable companies including TW, must be made to support their service better than they are doing. They provide HD signals , but don't support the techonlogy behind it is wrong and should not be accepted by any of us as consumers.
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post #10 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 10:44 AM
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I'm not an HDMI fan, but I want the option of being able to use the function if I choose too. The idea that 40% of my available inputs are un-useable because TWC does not support the function is un-acceptable to me.

You're not an HDMI fan.
You want the option if you choose to use it.
You feel your set is being underutilized by 40%.

Whatever dude.

Do you also feel they should lean on all the TV networks to film and broadcast only in HD say that your HD utilization will be 100%? And the movie studios go back and rework their films so they are in HD?

It's not like they suddenly changed their policy. They supported component inputs, not HDMI, when you got your TV. Maybe you should have checked on that before you bought it. Not defending TWC, (got my own problems with them), but I don't expect the world to change based on decisions I make.

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post #11 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Adult Beverage View Post

You're not an HDMI fan.
You want the option if you choose to use it.
You feel your set is being underutilized by 40%.

Whatever dude.

Do you also feel they should lean on all the TV networks to film and broadcast only in HD say that your HD utilization will be 100%? And the movie studios go back and rework their films so they are in HD?

It's not like they suddenly changed their policy. They supported component inputs, not HDMI, when you got your TV. Maybe you should have checked on that before you bought it. Not defending TWC, (got my own problems with them), but I don't expect the world to change based on decisions I make.

The world is on it's own and we are all in touble, but that is another topic.

I do expect a company that I do business with to provide me with acceptable levels of service since I pay them for that. Do I want options ? YES !...we all want options, in all areas of life not just HDTV.

It's not my TV is underutilized by 40%, It's UN_AVAILABLE and can not be used by the cable box for HDMI under present conditions.

I do expect to be able to use all of my inputs on my HDTV including the HDMI. I understand HDMI has it's own sets of issues, but I like the idea of running 1 smaller cable from the cable box to the TV instead of having to use 2 larger cable for component video and audio.

Let cable tv use the HDMI connection and free up the other connections for the other devices.

Other devices I may want to connect don't have HDMI connections, they have to use the S-Video or component connections.
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post #12 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 12:10 PM
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Pace Micro Technology and Simplay Labs Team Up to support HDMI and HDCP on all Pace HD set-top boxes
Saltaire, West Yorkshire, June 20, 2007: Pace Micro Technology plc (PIC), the leading independent developer of digital TV technologies for the global payTV industry and Simplay Labs, LLC, the leading provider of testing technologies, programs and interoperability design standards for the high-definition (HD) consumer electronics industry, today announced they have signed an agreement to maximise HDMI performance and HDCP on all current and future Pace high definition set-top boxes.

As such, all of Pace's HD products will support the HDMI standard, as well as the HDCP specification, to ensure interoperability with HDTVs and other HD consumer electronics devices and protection of digital content.

HDMI is the de facto standard connector for high-definition consumer electronics devices, including TVs, set-top boxes, DVD players and A/V receivers. In addition, HDMI is rapidly growing in the game console, PC and mobile markets, as manufacturers meet consumer demand for multimedia convergence. More than 130 million devices featuring HDMI are expected to ship in 2007, according to market researcher In-Stat.

"As more and more HDMI products are coming to market, manufacturers are now including multiple HDMI ports on HDTVs. Consumers are demanding the simplicity of connecting several source devices to an HDTV, such as a game console, set-top box and a Blu-ray Disk or HD DVD player," said Joseph Lias, president of Simplay Labs, LLC.

Mark Merigot, Director of Engineering at Pace commented: "This new partnership is a key part of our global strategy to improve our development test capability in order to be sure we deliver the highest quality experience to the end user.

"The implementation of these important specifications into our set-top boxes will ensure that our boxes work together with consumer electronics devices to provide a consistent 'plug and play' user experience and maximize consumers' access to premium HD content."

As part of the agreement, all of Pace's HD set-top boxes will undergo Simplay Labs' interoperability testing, which involves plugging devices into a suite of other HD devices available on the market. This suite of tests offers a thorough verification not found with other testing services, and is based on real-life usage situations that consumers encounter with HD equipment.
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post #13 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darrin1471 View Post

Pace Micro Technology and Simplay Labs Team Up to support HDMI and HDCP on all Pace HD set-top boxes
Saltaire, West Yorkshire, June 20, 2007: Pace Micro Technology plc (PIC), the leading independent developer of digital TV technologies for the global payTV industry and Simplay Labs, LLC, the leading provider of testing technologies, programs and interoperability design standards for the high-definition (HD) consumer electronics industry, today announced they have signed an agreement to maximise HDMI performance and HDCP on all current and future Pace high definition set-top boxes.

As such, all of Pace's HD products will support the HDMI standard, as well as the HDCP specification, to ensure interoperability with HDTVs and other HD consumer electronics devices and protection of digital content.

HDMI is the de facto standard connector for high-definition consumer electronics devices, including TVs, set-top boxes, DVD players and A/V receivers. In addition, HDMI is rapidly growing in the game console, PC and mobile markets, as manufacturers meet consumer demand for multimedia convergence. More than 130 million devices featuring HDMI are expected to ship in 2007, according to market researcher In-Stat.

"As more and more HDMI products are coming to market, manufacturers are now including multiple HDMI ports on HDTVs. Consumers are demanding the simplicity of connecting several source devices to an HDTV, such as a game console, set-top box and a Blu-ray Disk or HD DVD player," said Joseph Lias, president of Simplay Labs, LLC.

Mark Merigot, Director of Engineering at Pace commented: "This new partnership is a key part of our global strategy to improve our development test capability in order to be sure we deliver the highest quality experience to the end user.

"The implementation of these important specifications into our set-top boxes will ensure that our boxes work together with consumer electronics devices to provide a consistent 'plug and play' user experience and maximize consumers' access to premium HD content."

As part of the agreement, all of Pace's HD set-top boxes will undergo Simplay Labs' interoperability testing, which involves plugging devices into a suite of other HD devices available on the market. This suite of tests offers a thorough verification not found with other testing services, and is based on real-life usage situations that consumers encounter with HD equipment.


I just connected 4 Pace boxes to my new 37" Sharp LCD and all 4 failed to display a picture or sound.

I connected a Scientific Atlanta 8300 box to the same tv and everything was fine, so the TV was good, the HDMI on the TV was OK.

It was the PACE box, provided by Time Warner which failed and when I called TWC they said we provide you the box, but do not support the HDMI technology or offer support. If you have trouble, you are on your own.....Unquote

Anybody with HDMI connections on their HDTV should be worried over service and attitude like this.
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post #14 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 02:45 PM
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Sounds like Pace will be upgrading software?

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post #15 of 25 Old 06-22-2007, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrin1471 View Post

Pace Micro Technology and Simplay Labs Team Up to support HDMI and HDCP on all Pace HD set-top boxes
Saltaire, West Yorkshire, June 20, 2007: Pace Micro Technology plc (PIC), the leading independent developer of digital TV technologies for the global payTV industry and Simplay Labs, LLC, the leading provider of testing technologies, programs and interoperability design standards for the high-definition (HD) consumer electronics industry, today announced they have signed an agreement to maximise HDMI performance and HDCP on all current and future Pace high definition set-top boxes.

As such, all of Pace's HD products will support the HDMI standard, as well as the HDCP specification, to ensure interoperability with HDTVs and other HD consumer electronics devices and protection of digital content.

HDMI is the de facto standard connector for high-definition consumer electronics devices, including TVs, set-top boxes, DVD players and A/V receivers. In addition, HDMI is rapidly growing in the game console, PC and mobile markets, as manufacturers meet consumer demand for multimedia convergence. More than 130 million devices featuring HDMI are expected to ship in 2007, according to market researcher In-Stat.

"As more and more HDMI products are coming to market, manufacturers are now including multiple HDMI ports on HDTVs. Consumers are demanding the simplicity of connecting several source devices to an HDTV, such as a game console, set-top box and a Blu-ray Disk or HD DVD player," said Joseph Lias, president of Simplay Labs, LLC.

Mark Merigot, Director of Engineering at Pace commented: "This new partnership is a key part of our global strategy to improve our development test capability in order to be sure we deliver the highest quality experience to the end user.

"The implementation of these important specifications into our set-top boxes will ensure that our boxes work together with consumer electronics devices to provide a consistent 'plug and play' user experience and maximize consumers' access to premium HD content."

As part of the agreement, all of Pace's HD set-top boxes will undergo Simplay Labs' interoperability testing, which involves plugging devices into a suite of other HD devices available on the market. This suite of tests offers a thorough verification not found with other testing services, and is based on real-life usage situations that consumers encounter with HD equipment.

sounds like corporate BS. Let's see them back up this bs with replacing boxes with working HDMI. At this point they're just lying!
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post #16 of 25 Old 06-23-2007, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

sounds like corporate BS. Let's see them back up this bs with replacing boxes with working HDMI. At this point they're just lying!

Unless it happens within the next week, it ain't going to happen. All set top boxes deployed after July 1, 2007, as a practical matter, are going to have to include cablecards. I suppose they can push an update, but I think replacements are out of the question.
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post #17 of 25 Old 06-23-2007, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Justanopinion View Post

There is not many switching provider options. Time Warner....satellite....or antenna.......the other 2 have their own issues as well

ATT is currently rolling out U-verse in San Diego.
https://uverse1.att.com/launchAMSS.do

I'm in Penasquitos and it's not avaliable here yet, but will be very soon according to my neighbor (ATT employee). The biggest downside is that it can't currently receive 2 HD signals simultaneously. That is supposed to be resolved in Q1 08.

Also, there is a San Diego specific Cable/HDTV board you may find interesting here: http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/cgi-bin/discus.cgi


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post #18 of 25 Old 06-25-2007, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

sounds like corporate BS. Let's see them back up this bs with replacing boxes with working HDMI. At this point they're just lying!

There is an employee of Pace who contributes to avs but he only works on the Motorola network stbs. Reading the threads he contributes to have shown different stb from different manufacturers has HDMI problems with different TVs.
They are fixable through a firmware update but this can take a little time solve and some cable companies are slow to distribute the firmware.

You could contact Simplay labs with your set up details and they may be able to keep you updated.

http://www.simplayhd.com/
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post #19 of 25 Old 06-26-2007, 04:48 PM
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I just came across this thread. Denial seems certainly to be the simplest response to this issue. I was surprised the other day when I came across this TWC Presentation (I believe that it is some sort of training document).

One extract:
Quote:


Get a handle

HDMI is here, isn't going away, and will likely become more prevalent as more subs upgrade to HDTV. It offers simplicity of installation wiring and great throughput from the set-top to other devices, but is not yet bug-free. HDMI cables themselves may have problems, and compatibility issues remain, largely with HDCP and older customer premises equipment (CPE) such as DVD players.

If operators want to keep gold-plated subs happy and be prepared for the next video wave, it makes sense for their technical teams to get a handle on HDMI as soon as possible.

The document seems to indicate some interest in some quarters of TWC in having their field people understand how to handle HDMI issues.

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post #20 of 25 Old 07-31-2009, 07:09 AM
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I see this thread is over two years old. Guess what? TimeWarner is still not supporting HDMI as I found out a few weeks ago.

Hmmm.... Do I want to string the component cables plus two audio cables through the wall or a single hdmi cable??? No question there!
Fortunately, both of my boxes are Scientific Atlanta 8300 and HDMI works fine.

How sad that after two years of this garbage, TimeWarner is still handing out the component & audio cables, telling us, "They're just as good."
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post #21 of 25 Old 07-31-2009, 07:19 AM
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Sooooo...cancel your TWC subscription.

And for 720p, Component is just as good.
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-31-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NE-Phil View Post

....TimeWarner is still handing out the component & audio cables, telling us, "They're just as good."

No to defend TWC< but component video is as good as HDMI.

HDMI has no inherent HD image quality advantage over component video.

For digital audio, a digital optical or coax cable is needed, which is substantially better than l/r analog stereo.

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post #23 of 25 Old 08-01-2009, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

HDMI has no inherent HD image quality advantage over component video.

Huh?

For an HD program (let's say the Tonight Show), the video has been digitized at the camera. It has been edited digitally, stored digitally, transmitted digitally, delivered to my house digitally.

But you think it's OK to then do a D/A in the STB, send analog video over a lossy cable, then do a corresponding A/D in the TV, before displaying it?
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post #24 of 25 Old 08-01-2009, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

Huh?

For an HD program (let's say the Tonight Show), the video has been digitized at the camera. It has been edited digitally, stored digitally, transmitted digitally, delivered to my house digitally.

But you think it's OK to then do a D/A in the STB, send analog video over a lossy cable, then do a corresponding A/D in the TV, before displaying it?

There are two major steps you left out. The digital video stream generated by the camera is compressed as it is Encoded in the studio before being transmitted digitally and then uncompressed as it is Decoded in the STB. That is if you are lucky and no further Decoding-compression-Encoding is done by TWC. IMO the compression-encoding step removes so much information that the additional degradation introduced by the D/A and A/D steps when using the component connection is generally not noticeable.

Granted HDMI introduces the convenience of using one cable which can provide high quality audio and most new sets have more HDMI inputs than component inputs. Also many use receivers with HDMI inputs to route the audio to their home theater system.

I am not in anyway proposing excuses for the lack of HDMI support by TWC any other cable company.

If it isn't 720p or 1080i/p it isn't HD. If it is 720p or 1080i/p it may not be HD content.
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post #25 of 25 Old 08-01-2009, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

Huh?

For an HD program (let's say the Tonight Show), the video has been digitized at the camera. It has been edited digitally, stored digitally, transmitted digitally, delivered to my house digitally.

But you think it's OK to then do a D/A in the STB, send analog video over a lossy cable, then do a corresponding A/D in the TV, before displaying it?

Please do your homework before making statements filled with misinformation

It's this simple: HDMI has no inherent advantage over component video in passing HDTV signals from a STB to a display. Both are fully capable of all HD formats, including 720p, 1080i, 1080p, without any loss in HD image quality.

Further misinformation will be deleted without warning.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1162798

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