Asus upcoming Xonar AV1 HDMI soundcard - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 83 Old 07-17-2008, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ymarker View Post

(+) EAX 5.0 for my games. Don't think Auzentech has this.

What?? Creative just released a bunch of sound cards based on its new PCI Express-based X-Fi audio processor, and Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 also uses it.

Auzentech Reveals HDMI 1.3-native PCI Express Audio Combo Card

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The Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 has been designed around the latest Creative PCI Express X-Fi audio processor. For home theater enthusiasts, the processor includes HDMI 1.3 support and will feature Dolby Digital and DTS encoding for a single-cable connection to home theater systems. For gamers, the card leverages the power of the PCI Express-optimized X-Fi processor to deliver accelerated audio for improved game performance, with ultra-realistic EAX 5.0 effects and 3D positional audio.

“Creative is excited to work with Auzentech to deliver a true high-definition HDMI solution based on our latest PCI Express-based processor,” said Steve Erickson, VP and GM of audio for Creative. “We have completely re-architected our X-Fi audio processor, optimizing it for the PCI Express bus. We’ve also made a significant achievement in customizing our audio technology to enable the highest quality lossless digital audio for HDMI, for a stunning HD digital entertainment experience.”

So there is no PCI Express bridge as seen in the ASUS PCI Express Xonar cards (C-Media Oxygen CMI8788 is a PCI-based processor). Another difference is that X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 is more focused on HDMI with simplified analog part (DAC and OPAMP). I welcome it if it reduces the price as I (and perhaps most users too) never use analog. The X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 card is thus slimmer than Xonar HDAV1.3 and X-Fi Prelude 7.1.

ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3



Auzentech Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1



The output ports are HDMI in, HDMI out, S/PDIF (optical/coaxial combo) and an connector for analog breakout. Compare it with

Auzentech Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1



X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 is a nice little card for HDMI users (if it works as advertised)!
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post #32 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 08:49 AM
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Ultimately it will come down to whose crappy drivers you want to risk your money on.

On paper the Auzentech looks good, but the Creative core essentially means that the odds of ripping the thing out of your PC and stomping on it are high.

I am not sure that Asus will be much better. Their drivers may be better, but their customer service is extra-lousy.

I do imagine that if Asus kicks theirs out the door soon and Auzentech waits another two months the market will run at Asus first.
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post #33 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

Ultimately it will come down to whose crappy drivers you want to risk your money on.

On paper the Auzentech looks good, but the Creative core essentially means that the odds of ripping the thing out of your PC and stomping on it are high.

I am not sure that Asus will be much better. Their drivers may be better, but their customer service is extra-lousy.

I do imagine that if Asus kicks theirs out the door soon and Auzentech waits another two months the market will run at Asus first.

I thought the Asus drivers were a bit better than the creative ones on my last X-Fi, can't say I had any problems with them though, at least not for my needs. Neither allow convenient setting of levels and delays which I would have liked for analogue output but with HDMI bitstream you don't need any settings, so as long as they both work they should both be fine.

I recently tried hooking up my D2 via analogue to see if it sounded better than the Receiver and remembered why I tore it out in the first place, I get bad hum from analogue.

I won't be rushing out to buy either of these until there have been a few reviews and plenty of feedback on here. There is always one tiny thing you don't realise that can end up ruining a great product.

Fingers crossed

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post #34 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 10:12 AM
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For some (including me) I'm not buying a HDMI soundcard until PowerDVD releases a version that doesn't downsample and it seems like Cyberlink is in bed with Auzentech. If for any reason its implied that the Auzentech will work better or be more compatible with PowerDVD then that makes my decision.

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post #35 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 10:22 AM
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Any word on the MSRP price of the Xonar AV1 HDMI 1.3?
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post #36 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 10:29 AM
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I just want to be able to build a simple head-end device that can play HDMI audio (LPCM or bitstream, I don't care!) from ripped DVD, HD-DVD, and BD without constant fussing. So far I'm falling short I am really hoping the Xonar gets me there.
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post #37 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:


I just want to be able to build a simple head-end device that can play HDMI audio (LPCM or bitstream, I don't care!) from ripped DVD, HD-DVD, and BD without constant fussing. So far I'm falling short

You're too easy... I can do that with my G-33 based Shuttle box... but you failed to mention PAVP (or PAP ?) for non-downsampled audio...


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post #38 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 10:40 AM
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Driver? For bitstream, there is no room for X-Fi/Oxygen audio processor driver to involve. Software player sends bitstream through PAP, which is muxed with video and sent over HDMI. These HDMI sound cards are ridiculously bloated for such a simple task, X-Fi HomeTheater is slightly slimmer, though.
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post #39 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 11:42 AM
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@renethx, can I ask where you got that picture of the Auzentech X-fi HT 7.1?
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post #40 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

You're too easy... I can do that with my G-33 based Shuttle box... but you failed to mention PAVP (or PAP ?) for non-downsampled audio...



Heh, yes... I should have said "non-downsampled audio"
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post #41 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post

@renethx, can I ask where you got that picture of the Auzentech X-fi HT 7.1?

I don't remember its name, I believe it's a Candian review site.
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post #42 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 11:58 AM
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Yes it is called, Hardware Canucks. You took the picture and removed our sites watermark. This picture is ours and is exclusive to our site. I have no problem with you using the picture for threads but please Do not remove our watermark logo from it. Can you please replace it with the original one that has our watermark.
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post #43 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Driver? For bitstream, there is no room for X-Fi/Oxygen audio processor driver to involve. Software player sends bitstream through PAP, which is muxed with video and sent over HDMI. These HDMI sound cards are ridiculously bloated for such a simple task, X-Fi HomeTheater is slightly slimmer, though.

I have plenty of experience with Creative drivers and there is nothing in a computer that they can't screw up. I wouldn't be surprised if they conflicted with Notepad under the proper circumstances.

And Bitstreaming through PAP is probably one of the most complicated things going on in this card. It is going to require perfect function on all fronts, especially drivers since that is the glue that makes it work.
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post #44 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

Bitstreaming through PAP is probably one of the most complicated things going on in this card. It is going to require perfect function on all fronts, especially drivers since that is the glue that makes it work.

Agreed. But DSP plays no role in this complicated process ... it's just a speculation, you may be right.
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post #45 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post

Yes it is called, Hardware Canucks. You took the picture and removed our sites watermark. This picture is ours and is exclusive to our site. I have no problem with you using the picture for threads but please Do not remove our watermark logo from it. Can you please replace it with the original one that has our watermark.

Oh, it's your site. I understand, I will replace the picture soon.
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post #46 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Oh, it's your site. I understand, I will replace the picture soon.

Technically, since it is an unreleased product, all copyrights including any still images belong to Azuntech. So technically everyone is violating copyright. But that is what the Internet is all about. The selling and marketing of other people's ideas.
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post #47 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post


So there is no PCI Express bridge as seen in the ASUS PCI Express Xonar cards (C-Media Oxygen CMI8788 is a PCI-based processor). Another difference is that X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 is more focused on HDMI with simplified analog part (DAC and OPAMP). I welcome it if it reduces the price as I (and perhaps most users too) never use analog. The X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 card is thus slimmer than Xonar HDAV1.3 and X-Fi Prelude 7.1...

The Xonar HDAV1 will come in TWO versions. The standard version will be without the daughter card that provides the extra analog channels and should be cheaper than the Deluxe version that includes all the extra channels.

The card(s) will also feature swapable OpAmps on ALL analog channels and come STOCK with the LM4562s on all channels as well. Some people don't care about the analog parts of these cards, but others do...

Also, the PCIe bridge does not effect sound quality in any way so it really isn't relevant in this discussion...

Lastly, I would not in any way expect the Auzentech card to be cheap in price. Their pricing history to date reveals that this would be a pipe dream...
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post #48 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 02:20 PM
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@SlackerX IIRC, the rumored price on the HDA 1.3 is about $300, not sure if that is for the vanilla version or the deluxe. Would be great if they offered both cards and the daughter card for those who want to upgrade.

The Auzen X-FI HT 7.1 has a front channel replacable opamp by the looks of the picture. We are working on getting more pictures and further information for everybody. To note although not really relavent to sound quality the card uses a newly redesigned X-fi procesor to offer Native PCI-E interface. Looks like that Xonar HDA 1.3 from the picture is still using a PLX bridging chip.
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post #49 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 02:21 PM
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Oh, it's your site. I understand, I will replace the picture soon.

Thank you very much.
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post #50 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizam View Post

For some (including me) I'm not buying a HDMI soundcard until PowerDVD releases a version that doesn't downsample and it seems like Cyberlink is in bed with Auzentech. If for any reason its implied that the Auzentech will work better or be more compatible with PowerDVD then that makes my decision.

Cyberlink and Nvidia are both on the X-fi HT 7.1 project, yes. Cyberlink already released info to the press that stated thier upcoming software will use this card to it's full potential.
I am pretty sure ASUS also has a software player partner involved for their HDMI 1.3 project.
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post #51 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post

Cyberlink and Nvidia are both on the X-fi HT 7.1 project, yes. Cyberlink already released info to the press that stated thier upcoming software will use this card to it's full potential.
I am pretty sure ASUS also has a software player partner involved for their HDMI 1.3 project.

Yes, it's well known ASUS has partnered with Arcsoft; Arcsoft is creating a special build of TMT whose own PAP is compatible with the Xonar HDAV's PAP.

Because of the lack of a native PAP encryption channel in Vista, this silly situation with vendors having to "partner up" to ensure an unbroken PAP tunnel has arisen.
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post #52 of 83 Old 07-18-2008, 04:16 PM
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Thats the name I was trying to think of "Arcsoft"...
Hey atleast you can be sure whichever way you go the software will be functional with that product having the software company working with the product during development of the new player or patched payer whichever way they decide to go. Auzen with Cyberlink and ASUS with Arcsoft.
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I hope this means nothing, but the asus link for the Xonar HDAV is only on it's global site, not on the US site. As a matter of fact when I called and spoke to Asus (Lvl2) the guy pointed this out, though mentioned he'll try to get a release date and price. I'm not holding my breath for an answer, though if he does suprise me I'll let you guys know.

Back to studying autonomic receptors!
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post #54 of 83 Old 07-19-2008, 10:02 AM
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So it looks like us non-HDMI receiver owners have to pay extra just to get older technology. MY receiver has 5.1 analog inputs that I'm sure will sound better carrying LPCM than the current signals: DD/DTS over optical.
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post #55 of 83 Old 07-19-2008, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post

@SlackerX IIRC, the rumored price on the HDA 1.3 is about $300, not sure if that is for the vanilla version or the deluxe. Would be great if they offered both cards and the daughter card for those who want to upgrade.

The Auzen X-FI HT 7.1 has a front channel replacable opamp by the looks of the picture. We are working on getting more pictures and further information for everybody. To note although not really relavent to sound quality the card uses a newly redesigned X-fi procesor to offer Native PCI-E interface. Looks like that Xonar HDA 1.3 from the picture is still using a PLX bridging chip.

I'll say again that the bridging chip has no effect on the quality of sound that is produced by this product and has very little to do with compatibility of the device. The chip does exactly what it's supposed to do...

It would be nice if we could keep this discussion on topic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty2k1 View Post

So it looks like us non-HDMI receiver owners have to pay extra just to get older technology. MY receiver has 5.1 analog inputs that I'm sure will sound better carrying LPCM than the current signals: DD/DTS over optical.

Why would you be paying extra for older technology? Are you planning on sticking with your current receiver? If so, why bother with an HDMI card at all? There are plenty of high-quality analog cards out there now and you won't get any benefit from the HDMI output from any of this cards unless you purchase a receiver that can process HDMI sound.

The existing Xonars range in cost from $89.00-200.00. There are also cards available from Auzentech, Creative and HT-Omega (my pick if not a Xonar for HTPC/Music use) that offer very high quality analog audio as well as standard (non-HD) digital output and encoding.
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post #57 of 83 Old 07-19-2008, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerX View Post

I'll say again that the bridging chip has no effect on the quality of sound that is produced by this product and has very little to do with compatibility of the device. The chip does exactly what it's supposed to do...

It would be nice if we could keep this discussion on topic.

-I also said the bridging chip has no bearing on sound quality. -why would it? I just mentioned one card is native PCI-E and the other is PCI with a bridge chip. how are details about either card not on topic?
Anyway...
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post #58 of 83 Old 07-19-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty2k1 View Post

So it looks like us non-HDMI receiver owners have to pay extra just to get older technology. MY receiver has 5.1 analog inputs that I'm sure will sound better carrying LPCM than the current signals: DD/DTS over optical.

Both card features full analog sections and DDL, DTS-C Output along with the HDMI 1.3 ability. These "older" technologies are available on quite a few cards and even some motherboards. Most are waiting for these cards because of the HDMI 1.3 features though. These cards are great for people who think they may move to HDMI in the future becasue you have all the other output options available.
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post #59 of 83 Old 07-19-2008, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerX View Post

Why would you be paying extra for older technology? Are you planning on sticking with your current receiver? If so, why bother with an HDMI card at all? There are plenty of high-quality analog cards out there now and you won't get any benefit from the HDMI output from any of this cards unless you purchase a receiver that can process HDMI sound.

The existing Xonars range in cost from $89.00-200.00. There are also cards available from Auzentech, Creative and HT-Omega (my pick if not a Xonar for HTPC/Music use) that offer very high quality analog audio as well as standard (non-HD) digital output and encoding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post

Both card features full analog sections and DDL, DTS-C Output along with the HDMI 1.3 ability. These "older" technologies are available on quite a few cards and even some motherboards. Most are waiting for these cards because of the HDMI 1.3 features though. These cards are great for people who think they may move to HDMI in the future becasue you have all the other output options available.

I think those comments were based on the idea that you have to buy an HDMI 1.3 sound card with analogue just to get a solution that isn't being downsamped You have to have PAP to get round the downsampling even for analogue

Just my interpretation of course

Adam
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post #60 of 83 Old 07-19-2008, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

I think those comments were based on the idea that you have to buy an HDMI 1.3 sound card with analogue just to get a solution that isn't being downsamped You have to have PAP to get round the downsampling even for analogue

Just my interpretation of course

Adam

I too, have come to that conclusion.

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