MSI 7411 Motherboard Sneak Peek (share your thoughts!) - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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post #2251 of 3490 Old 06-17-2009, 07:58 PM
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Yes, you do want a heavier gauge than the terminal block allows. But, the work around is pretty easy with quality wire strippers. Just strip your heavier gauge wires to a lighter gauge - and tin them with solder (to corral any stray strands)and protect them from corrosion.
The drop in gauge for that last 1/2 inch is nothing compared to the drop in gauge on the other side of the terminal block, where it becomes a circuit board trace.
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For the speaker block terminial, this is a industry standard high density connector. It was chosen because it was industry standard and because the cards are low profile to allow for smaller chassis designs. It was the only connector that would allow for all the speaker wires to fit within the card height.

Good news is that the terminal block unplugs from the card so you can connect up your wires then plug it back into the card.

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post #2252 of 3490 Old 06-17-2009, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeWPgh View Post

Yes, you do want a heavier gauge than the terminal block allows. But, the work around is pretty easy with quality wire strippers. Just strip your heavier gauge wires to a lighter gauge - and tin them with solder (to corral any stray strands)and protect them from corrosion.

You figure 12 gauge would work? If so:

Gold 12 AWG Pin Solder Connector Pair
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post #2253 of 3490 Old 06-17-2009, 08:16 PM
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One of the things that has held me back (other than a processor a bit more powerful than the 5050e at 65W or less) was the inability to use it as an amp for an external source (in my case a cable box).

It was earlier indicated that this was available in Windows 7. Does anyone have more details on this.
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post #2254 of 3490 Old 06-17-2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

Would love some feedback on the blog and the new possibilities

It looks like the new FW for the MB allows one to set individual x-overs and eqs for each channel. If this is correct, the MB would also be nice for running multiamped stereo setups. One could set the x-over for each output and set an eq to address any needs for the driver/room. It becomes a very cheap way of multiamping speakers, and for people interested in playing with speaker design, for making quick changes to a system and seeing how it affects the sound. If one could run another amp card, then one could multiamp in surround mode.

How many channels can one adjust?

Thanks

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post #2255 of 3490 Old 06-17-2009, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

It looks like the new FW for the MB allows one to set individual x-overs and eqs for each channel. If this is correct, the MB would also be nice for running multiamped stereo setups. One could set the x-over for each output and set an eq to address any needs for the driver/room. It becomes a very cheap way of multiamping speakers, and for people interested in playing with speaker design, for making quick changes to a system and seeing how it affects the sound. If one could run another amp card, then one could multiamp in surround mode.

How many channels can one adjust?

Thanks

Yes, I do have a couple of system integrators looking at possible multi-room amp configurations.

As far as Window's can tell, there are 8 DACs. However, there is currently only the 5 channel amp card.

The new f/w signal flow gives you control over all 8 channels in the DAC, but you are still limited by the current amp card. Unless someone wants to take it upon themselves to build a 7 channel card, that is what is available today.

But yes, in theory you are right.

The current board design only allows for a single amp plug in card.

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post #2256 of 3490 Old 06-17-2009, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mozartrules View Post

One of the things that has held me back (other than a processor a bit more powerful than the 5050e at 65W or less) was the inability to use it as an amp for an external source (in my case a cable box).

It was earlier indicated that this was available in Windows 7. Does anyone have more details on this.

We have Quad Core 65W parts in both our Phenom I and Phenom II line. We also have faster Athlon II 65W parts that launched at Computex.

As for Win 7, yes it allows for real time monitoring of source inputs. There is a check box on the audio panel that allows you to pass through sources from the inputs and play it back on the outputs.

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post #2257 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 03:06 AM
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Hard to say. The pins would work fine, but I don't know if there is room for the bodies/insulators. The teminal block is pretty cramped.
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You figure 12 gauge would work? If so:

Gold 12 AWG Pin Solder Connector Pair

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post #2258 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeWPgh View Post

Hard to say. The pins would work fine, but I don't know if there is room for the bodies/insulators. The teminal block is pretty cramped.

I was thinking of giving the pins a 20 degree bend or so. Hopefully, they wouldn't snap!

Suspect if I did this I'd end up with the 7 ch preamp board. I've got some spare amplification hanging around (though not enough for 7 channels). However, the idea of using the 5 channel amp board for speaker crossover development is very intriguing: if one could couple REW (or similar) to the internal EQ for automatic filter adjustment you've got the poor mans version of some otherwise very expensive tools...
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post #2259 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I am building my own break out box using banana jacks.

Monoprice has a wall plate with 5 pairs of keystones pre mounted. I figure run a short wire from the wall plate connector to the terminal block and then I can run heavier wire to the speakers using banana jacks.

They actually have a special on Banana Jacks today...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Here is the wall plate I am going to use.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

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post #2260 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

The new f/w signal flow gives you control over all 8 channels in the DAC, but you are still limited by the current amp card.

Just to make sure I understand this correctly, does this mean that one can assign two amps to 1 channel? I.e. Front Left gets two amps assigned so one can biamp it. Amp 1 is given a particular x-over (e.g. forth order, 200Hz high frequency cutoff) and Amp 2 a different xover but same channel (.e.g forth order, 200Hz low frequency cutoff). For front right speaker you do the same with amps 3 and 4. Amp 5 you assign to a sub through a third channel. In other words one can multiamp individual speakers.

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post #2261 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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If I understand what you are trying to do correctly, then yes.

You could use the switcher to take content from channel 1's input and output it on channels 1 and 2. Then you could use those outputs plus the crossovers to drive the tweeter on channel 1 and the mids on channel 2.

You could do this for both L/R which would use 4 of the amp channels. Then you could use the 5th channel for the center and then use channel 6 for the sub.

You would basically be using one amp channel for each tweeter, 1 amp channel for each mid, 1 amp channel for the center and then the pre amp output on the board for the sub.

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post #2262 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 09:44 AM
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That is exactly what I meant. The MB becomes quite useful in areas such as speaker design, multiamping, multiroom, etc. If they could have allowed for a second amp board that would have been pretty cool, but I guess that is asking a little too much...maybe ver 2

PS, I just ordered one on the basis of your blog and last post. Thanks. Should be fun to play with.

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post #2263 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 09:46 AM
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Can one use the line outputs from the board in conjunction with the internal amps? I.e. Use the line out for the same source as the internal amps are using to feed a couple of external amps at the same time.

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post #2264 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 09:56 AM
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Currently, the line outs mirror the front channels (left/right), so yes.
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post #2265 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

Can one use the line outputs from the board in conjunction with the internal amps? I.e. Use the line out for the same source as the internal amps are using to feed a couple of external amps at the same time.

In particular for the same input? IE; split the fronts to high and low so that the low end goes to the line outs and the high end runs to the amp? If so, I can use one of the big old stereo amps that's hanging around for the bottom end on the fronts...
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post #2266 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

In particular for the same input? IE; split the fronts to high and low so that the low end goes to the line outs and the high end runs to the amp? If so, I can use one of the big old stereo amps that's hanging around for the bottom end on the fronts...

Currently, the line outs get the full range of frequencies that the amp outs get. What you want should be possible with the new firmware but someone will have to code an app to actually route the frequencies.
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post #2267 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 10:30 AM
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I have some G Skill 1066, DDR2, 2GB Ram. Has this board had any trouble with RAM higher than 800? I notice the specs state 800, but can it go up to 1066?

Thanks.

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post #2268 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonTHB View Post

How about another thread covering more technical aspects of the platform?

For example is the flow of audio a result of the firmware or is it the DAE-3? I had thought that it may be possible to make the inputs outputs. That way, if a customer isn't interested in surround sound it would allow for more line inputs using the Preamp.

Thanks. I guess you could say both.

The signal flow is a result of the f/w. Therefore, new f/w beyond this upcoming release could add some other functionality. However, f/w alone is not enough...it really needs to have the capabilities of the chip to really make the majic happen.

I don't know if the inputs could be mapped os outpus. I don't think so, but will ask the D2 guys to be sure.


Thanks for the feedback. Anyone else have comments on the new features coming? Are you guys excitied about what we are trying to enable?

For those that have not see it yet...

http://links.amd.com/TurnItUp

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post #2269 of 3490 Old 06-18-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mozartrules View Post

One of the things that has held me back (other than a processor a bit more powerful than the 5050e at 65W or less) was the inability to use it as an amp for an external source (in my case a cable box).

It was earlier indicated that this was available in Windows 7. Does anyone have more details on this.

I previously attempted to get the digital out from an Xbox360 into the DIVA ( 32 bit Vista) for amplified gaming via Vladd's switching app and it worked; sort of. I was only able to input a 2 channel, full range signal and bass management that worked for internal sources did not work on the digital input. Further, the Xbox's sound options that include Dolby Digital or DD + WMA Pro did not work either (produced a nasty, loud distortion from the DIVA's amps).

I tried this again today via Windows 7 and got exactly the same result via its built in switcher.

Thus, if your left/right front speakers have decent bass extension, and your cable box can send 2 ch PCM only (no Dolby Digital), and you can live with two channel input only, either OS could work for you.

A couple of other thoughts: Though I didn't try it, you could try using the DIVA's analog audio inputs instead of digital in from your cable box. This would solve the DD distortion issue by not passing it via your box's analog outs. Further, even if your L/R front speakers are bass limited satellites, if I read elsewhere in this thread correctly, the DIVA passes full range L/R analog out in combination with the signal that goes to the amps so you could run a pair of RCA cable into a sub and use its low pass crossover to match the bass roll off of your satellites. The only thing you'd have to watch is straining your satellites with a full range range signal if you turn the volume up too high. Note that I'm assuming BM doesn't get applied to analog inputs just as they don't with the digital input; but I have not tested this.

Good luck.

Eric
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post #2270 of 3490 Old 06-19-2009, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

Can one use the line outputs from the board in conjunction with the internal amps? I.e. Use the line out for the same source as the internal amps are using to feed a couple of external amps at the same time.

I use this configuration with my home cinema system as the front speakers are also my Hi-Fi speakers and have their own stereo amp. The issue you will get is a lot of noise through the phono outputs of the motherboard, none of which is present in the amp outputs. It seems to just be poor design/ proximity to other noise-generating components. Watching TV at night is a pain or during quiet scenes in movies as you struggle to hear people talk sometimes. If you could output via two devices at the same time I would get a $10 PCI-e sound card and use it's output for the fronts, but this is not possible in Windows Vista or 7.
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post #2271 of 3490 Old 06-19-2009, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

Thanks. I guess you could say both.

I don't know if the inputs could be mapped as outputs. I don't think so, but will ask the D2 guys to be sure.

It could be a limitation of the preamp not the chip. It also makes the use of a special connector that much more of a limitation.
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post #2272 of 3490 Old 06-19-2009, 11:02 AM
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I have modified many tripath digital amps by updating their power supplies, changing out capacitors to blackgates, and swapping out the inductors with air core inductors. I believe the amp board can be made to sound much better with simple mods. It looks like the board really needs a 45v power supply to really boast the bass response of the board rather then running off the computer's 12v and 5v supply. The capacitors should be changed to at least Panasonic caps with a bypass cap. Plus the inductors need to be changed for sure to help smooth out the high frequencies . I wish I had a schematic for the board and d2audio chip. I know the inductors on the tripath amps were either 15uh or 10uh. My guess is these are 10uh, but I don't know without a schematic. I am ready to modify this little gem, but I need more information concerning the board before I can begin.
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post #2273 of 3490 Old 06-19-2009, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyghostfire View Post

I have modified many tripath digital amps by updating their power supplies, changing out capacitors to blackgates, and swapping out the inductors with air core inductors. I believe the amp board can be made to sound much better with simple mods. It looks like the board really needs a 45v power supply to really boast the bass response of the board rather then running off the computer's 12v and 5v supply. The capacitors should be changed to at least Panasonic caps with a bypass cap. Plus the inductors need to be changed for sure to help smooth out the high frequencies . I wish I had a schematic for the board and d2audio chip. I know the inductors on the tripath amps were either 15uh or 10uh. My guess is these are 10uh, but I don't know without a schematic. I am ready to modify this little gem, but I need more information concerning the board before I can begin.


At the back of the amp card there is already a 45V upconvert that drives the amp card.

I know D2Audio does have some white papers, etc on their site but I am not sure how much docuementation they provide since I have not checked in a while.

As for component choices, those were all driven by MSI's purchasing dept. based upon what parts they could get (availability), the component cost of parts avaialble and the production cycle.

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post #2274 of 3490 Old 06-19-2009, 08:50 PM
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1st motherboard worked for 3 days, long enough to install windows 7, drivers and transfer part of my music and photo files. I had trouble getting sound (entirely my fault, the power connector was not in), but then stopped working when I left it powered for the night.

2nd one never got into a case, nor was the amp ever connected. It worked only for a couple of hours. It failed the same way as the first.

3rd MB is working for a third evening now, very happy with the sound driving old compact stereo speakers (my ohm-meter says they're 7.5 Ohm, close enough). Happy with the performance, playback is fine. Man is it ever loud !!! Speakers are usually around 3 %, and I'm finding volume adjustment difficult as the steps are big early in the ladder.

The third is the same version as the other 2: small IGP heat sink, PCI braket too high and capacitors preventing the use of the AverMedia board in the PCIe slot

I don't have a remote, I'm finding it easy to adjust the volume using the wireless kb. The kb is faster to find.

My setup:
Antec 2480 with EW380 power supply
AMD 5050e
MSI 7411
Logitec EX110 keyb
1 x 2Gigs generic 800 MHz memory
Generic DVD burner
AverMedia combo TV tuner

I will be getting better speakers and a larger monitor when I finish moving two weeks from now.

My IGP heatsink is really hot to the touch. I will try to fit a small fan to shake the air a bit more. The flow of the 2480 is good but lots of cool air gets evacuated too fast. It is not a case I would recommend with this board.

Thanks for your help guys down here.
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post #2275 of 3490 Old 06-19-2009, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lelou View Post

1st motherboard worked for 3 days, long enough to install windows 7, drivers and transfer part of my music and photo files. I had trouble getting sound (entirely my fault, the power connector was not in), but then stopped working when I left it powered for the night.

2nd one never got into a case, nor was the amp ever connected. It worked only for a couple of hours. It failed the same way as the first.

3rd MB is working for a third evening now, very happy with the sound driving old compact stereo speakers (my ohm-meter says they're 7.5 Ohm, close enough). Happy with the performance, playback is fine. Man is it ever loud !!! Speakers are usually around 3 %, and I'm finding volume adjustment difficult as the steps are big early in the ladder.

The third is the same version as the other 2: small IGP heat sink, PCI braket too high and capacitors preventing the use of the AverMedia board in the PCIe slot

I don't have a remote, I'm finding it easy to adjust the volume using the wireless kb. The kb is faster to find.

My setup:
Antec 2480 with EW380 power supply
AMD 5050e
MSI 7411
Logitec EX110 keyb
1 x 2Gigs generic 800 MHz memory
Generic DVD burner
AverMedia combo TV tuner

I will be getting better speakers and a larger monitor when I finish moving two weeks from now.

My IGP heatsink is really hot to the touch. I will try to fit a small fan to shake the air a bit more. The flow of the 2480 is good but lots of cool air gets evacuated too fast. It is not a case I would recommend with this board.

Thanks for your help guys down here.

I think your chassis is the 1st gen version of the Antec 430 remote. If so you can turn the fans on the chassis around so they are pulling air in instead of exhausting it. That helps get some air in the chassis. Some quick checks by our guys up in Seattle did that and it helped.

Some have moved to after market heatsinks for the NB to help keep it cool. However, I don't think the failures are due to NB overheating. When we did some thermal studies and overheated the chipset, we never saw a board fail from it. We just saw pixelation, corrupted video.

I am wondering if the failures are due to too much stress on the VRs down on the board. I think everyone that has had a failure was running 95W parts. I am wondering if the combo of 95W parts and limited airflow across the VRs might be what is causing some of the failures. If the VRs overheat, the board will fail pretty quickly.

I have not seen any failures with 65W parts in them in all my builds.

I just built one of these for my VP today and I put a 45W dual core in there. It was running very cool and pretty fast. I think I am going to try moving one of my Phenom 9350e systems over to a 45W part and see how it does.

Less power to the CPU means the VRs will run cooler.

However, you are running a 5050e which is a lower power part as well so it is hard to determine what caused your failures.

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post #2276 of 3490 Old 06-19-2009, 09:37 PM
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I must be in way over my head. I set up my new system with Vista 64 ult. I get the wave sounds when booting,etc but if I try to watch netflicks, no sound, radio, no sound. I have it connected through the HDMI right to the tv. I tried to connect it through my Onkyo receiver and had no luck with picture or sound. WHen you click on the speaker in the control bar, the sound is set to high for all three things.
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post #2277 of 3490 Old 06-20-2009, 12:10 AM
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Are you trying to output the sound through HDMI or the speakers? If it's the speakers, make sure you set the default output format to 48/16 or 48/24. The drivers don't seem to properly support 96/x or 192/x.
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post #2278 of 3490 Old 06-20-2009, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

I think everyone that has had a failure was running 95W parts. I am wondering if the combo of 95W parts and limited airflow across the VRs might be what is causing some of the failures. If the VRs overheat, the board will fail pretty quickly.

I have not seen any failures with 65W parts in them in all my builds.

FYI mine was (and still is) a 65W quad core. And I never noticed that it was hot before it broke.
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post #2279 of 3490 Old 06-20-2009, 05:28 AM
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Are you trying to output the sound through HDMI or the speakers? If it's the speakers, make sure you set the default output format to 48/16 or 48/24. The drivers don't seem to properly support 96/x or 192/x.

Through the HDMI. We played around, reinstalled the drivers, etc last night and got it working.

Does anyone have experience with screen flickering badly when running through an Onkyo receiver? Are the settings that need addressed?
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post #2280 of 3490 Old 06-20-2009, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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FYI mine was (and still is) a 65W quad core. And I never noticed that it was hot before it broke.

Thanks. I don't think it it the processor getting hot. I am wondering if it is the VR's over heating and not getting cooled down to handle the current flow.

This is just a guess, I don't really know what might have caused the failures.

Regards.
Java

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