ATI Radeon HD 4600 & 4800 series support 7.1 channel HDMI audio! - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingernst View Post

well believe what you want...you neither want to help us (ok in the first time you tried) nor you try to understand our problems.
I´m assured that I´m no newbie in this things...perhaps I´m younger than you and a student...but I had a side job in an Computer storage for 18 month...so I think I know what I say. Homecinema is my hobbie since nearly 10yrs. So don´t get such angry and accept that we have this 7.1 problem...if you read the last few pages you will see that this problem only happens with a 7.1 systems. With R1.97 is everything right in 5.1 Realtek setting by now. But 7.1 has still a problem

a)
Looking 5.1Movie with 7.1 setup through Bitstream (PowerDVD8): Front/Center/Surround - everything is ok
Switching to "8Channel" or "HDMI/PCM" (PowerDVD8) Front/Center/Backsurround...the surround signal gets routed from the surrounds to the backsurrounds..thats not our failure and not yours and sure not the problem from yamaha or Onkyo..its a Realtek problem.

If you look a 5.1 movie in 5.1 configuration everything is ok, even while looking the movie with "HDMI/PCM"

b)

WMV-HD "Surround test 720P"
5.1 Realtek configured, Onkyo plays: Front/Center/Surround...like he should
7.1 Realtek configured, Onkyo plays: Front/Center/ Backsurround

thats no user problem thats a bug...I don´t know why you have this blind love to ATI or Realtek..thats somesting like patriotism..blind and simple...

Why not just output a 5.1 signal from your PC and let the receiver expand it to 7.1 through the appropriate setting?

Affable Nitwit
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post #542 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

I understand you have a language barrier, but you're not making much sense. Well then I would be grateful to you if you would try to speak german with me, perhaps thats better. You seem to be jumping all over the place and not doing any sort of isolated diagnostics to figure out what you're incorrectly configuring. I understand that, it was like that in words about the past few sites, but not at the beginning and not in my room.

1) If you configure Windows for 7.1, and then run the test tones from Windows, do the sounds come out of the correct channels?
I told that in one of my first answers here, the Realtek/Windows test sounds are correct in every driver I tested

1a) If step 1 fails, then you have an issue with your AVR or speaker connections, as this works for, at a minimum, Onkyo and Denon.

1b) If step 1 works, then the Realtek driver and 4850 are fine. Thats wrong, the driver works correct with his own test sounds, but not the collaboration with some Players

2) Now add software. Since almost all BDs are 5.1, if you configure Windows for 7.1 you will get two blank/empty speakers when playing 5.1 content.

2a) In PDVD/TMT, configure for 8-channel. Sound should come from the sides, and the rears should be silent. Thats what I´m telling you since perhaps 5 sites...yes it SHLOULD but it doesnt
7.1 Realtek+AVR and 5.1 contend plays on Front/Center/Backsurrounds...not Front/Center/Surround (or your so called sides) like it should, its equal in all 5.1 contents...PDVD...Games...HD-WMV..whatever


2b) In PDVD/TMT, configure for 5.1 (leaving Windows at 7.1). This is the scenario where most AVRs will swap the sides/rears. But this is due to a mismatch in the configuration of Windows (7.1) and the player software (6-channel). this configuration makes no sense, but I tested it and it works like with Realtek 5.1 and PDVD 5.1-> Front/Center/Surround..like it should

Repeat all the above steps (as relevant) for 5.1.

Trust me. You have something configured incorrectly, and you're not doing step-by-step diagnostics.

If you're willing to do the above, you're likely to get some more help. Otherwise you likely won't.
I´m going to learn how to work as an engineer, believe me I know what it means to make tests step by step..I did this since I found the probblems


next question in the chain:

How is your Surround System (AVR) configured when you switch it (your Onkyo/Yamaham/whatever) to 5.1
Your Setup is Front Center Surround...right?!
configure to 7.1
Your Setup is Front Center Surround Backsurround (numerated from the front to the rear)...right?!

Look to my screenshot..compare that to your homecinema...and you will see why Realtek confuses surrounds and Backsurrounds on a 7.1 system with a 5.1 content in collaboration with any games or player Software

http://www.imgimg.de/uploads/Microso...84c7b53jpg.jpg

Greetings, Michael
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post #543 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Why not just output a 5.1 signal from your PC and let the receiver expand it to 7.1 through the appropriate setting?

Yes thats the way now, I have configured Realtek to 5.1 and PDVD to "6-channel" (or "PCM" both setups hit the same target)
so digital everything gets played like it should..thats enough for the moment...I don´t like PLIIX or DTS:Neo6 so much for completing to 7.1, that works not (constrancy of the sound) to every content..sometimes "direct" sounds more clearly

but thanks, your offer is a good one to help until bitstream will work (...and more movies will have 7.1 content)

Greetings, Michael
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post #544 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingernst View Post

Yes thats the way now, I have configured Realtek to 5.1 and PDVD to "6-channel" (or "PCM" both setups hit the same target)
so digital everything gets played like it should..thats enough for the moment...I don´t like PLIIX or DTS:Neo6 so much for completing to 7.1, that works not (constrancy of the sound) to every content..sometimes "direct" sounds more clearly

but thanks, your offer is a good one to help until bitstream will work (...and more movies will have 7.1 content)

Greetings, Michael

I confirmed a while back that Vista driver indicated L, R, C & rear L & R surrounds and that is incorrect. What I've done is changed from 5.1, what I have, to 7.1 and disable the rear surrounds and just leave/enable both side. It is correct to me in both VMC and PDVD8 DVD & BD playback since then. I used nothing but "Pure Audio" mode in my Onkyo 885 pre-amp and it is very clearly that what come out correct or not.
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post #545 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

I confirmed a while back that Vista driver indicated L, R, C & rear L & R surrounds and that is incorrect. What I've done is changed from 5.1, what I have, to 7.1 and disable the rear surrounds and just leave/enable both side. It is correct to me in both VMC and PDVD8 DVD & BD playback since then. I used nothing but "Pure Audio" mode in my Onkyo 885 pre-amp and it is very clearly that what come out correct or not.


The fact that it "labels" them as rear is irrelevant. The sound comes out of the right place if you configure everything properly.

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #546 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 02:28 PM
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You wanted me to overhole my tests... I did it...you are untroubled from any sign of sanity, I regret this...you can write, why can´t you read?! I have no problem with the fact that you perhaps don´t have this problem...I´m happy for you...but that don´t means that we cause the error..that´s a pity. I hoped this here is for exchange, help and for joint interests...not for living out your ego...have you done my tests I proposed? Have you tested the WMV-HD I posted? Have you tested any game? Have you tested my configuration? Have you posted any driver I should try to install and check it out?

Thats poor..I´m sorry about that....I didn´t came to this place to spite around some people...


Greetings Michael
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post #547 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingernst View Post

You wanted me to overhole my tests... I did it...you are untroubled from any sign of sanity, I regret this...you can write, why can´t you read?! I have no problem with the fact that you perhaps don´t have this problem...I´m happy for you...but that don´t means that we cause the error..that´s a pity. I hoped this here is for exchange, help and for joint interests...not for living out your ego...have you done my tests I proposed? Have you tested the WMV-HD I posted? Have you tested any game? Have you tested my configuration?

Thats poor..I´m sorry about that....I didn´t came to this place to spite around some people...


Greetings Michael

Michael,

I am not sure who are you referring to but I hope it is not me I agreed with you that it is hard to help sometime since we probably never have the same system, hardware, OS, software & etc... Since we are not QA and the best we can do is try to help each other by what we have done and hope other can TRY and solve the problem.

If you are referring to the 5.1 and 7.1 speakers set up, I've been 2nd that the moment you posted and I hope Realtek can fix that. But IMO I will try to look around and see any work around since sometime it will take forever for the manufacture to fix a small thing.
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post #548 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 03:19 PM
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Hei sorry hlkc, no that was no comment on you, I excuse the confusion we have to much confusions here Channels people words ....everything

Greetings, Michael
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post #549 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jespermart View Post

Yes I have both a LCD and a Panasonic plasma connected to the 4850, but the funny thing is that the driver 1.92 does not seems to have this behavior.
So for the moment I'm sticking to this, because the 1.96/1.97 does not fix the 7.1 problem via PCM (sending the sides to the back sorrounds), so there is really no reason to use the 1.96/1.97 drivers

Jesper

I have the same issue (high CPU usage) and here is what I found out. The thing that causes the issue is Vista sound subsystem. What happens is that it tells plug-and-play process "dcomlauncher" - the one that eats CPU time and prevents computer from sleep - to check for sound device capabilities repeatedly, if the device plugged in to HDMI does not provide a definitive response (e.g. in suspend mode or tuned off). This appears to be an issue for all Realteck-based audio solutions.

In my case, it is an issue when the receiver is off and is an issue when the receiver is off. A funny thing is that I would not know about it if I did not plug my monitor into a different video out - cause with the monitor on the same HDMI as sound it is impossible to actually see the increased CPU usage when receiver is off.

Here are some links to more detailed explanation of a similar (but not the same - in their case it is driver bug with effects processing, not HDMI) issue:


http://blog.hansmelis.be/2007/06/17/...-media-player/
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post #550 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingernst View Post

Hei sorry hlkc, no that was no comment on you, I excuse the confusion we have to much confusions here Channels people words ....everything

Greetings, Michael

No problem Michael. I just want to make sure that. But as I said at the end of the day, our hardware, software and gears are not 100% the same therefore even a program and a value of registry different, it will cost different behavior.
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post #551 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 07:10 PM
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For what it's worth, I can also verify what flyingernst was stating earlier. I have a Visiontek HD 4850 running audio and video into my Denon AVR-3806 receiver, running on Vista Ultimate SP1. When I configure my speakers for 5.1 and I run a speaker test, according to the graph I have Front Left, Center, Front Right, Rear Left and Rear right which all play correctly. When I switch to 7.1, it adds Side Left and Side right. If I do a test with it configured for 7.1, the Rear Left and Rear right no longer play, but Side Left and Side Right do. This is incorrect. And I know for damn sure my speakers are connected to my receiver properly.

Also, just an FYI, today Realtek released version R1.98 of their HD Audio Codec. The HDMI Audio driver is still at R1.97. I just did a fresh install of Vista with these drivers, and still seeing the same problem.

Does anyone know why my DTS Audio and Dolby Digital tests would fail? I just upgraded from a Visiontek HD 3870. When I ran these tests with the 3870 it would switch my receiver to the appropriate mode and play correctly...albeit only after installing the HDMI Audio driver. However, after installing the HD 4850 it will not play the tests and just gives me an error message right away. That being said, it does appear to be playing the audio correctly as I did test with my Transformers HD-DVD and audio was playing correctly out of my 5.1 setup.

Also, in case this helps anyone, I configured the audio properties on my PC in the Advanced tab to use "16 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality)". Upon clicking the test button my receiver shows me the following output for 5.1 and 7.1 respectively -

http://slap.gotdns.org/PCM-5.1.jpg

http://slap.gotdns.org/PCM-7.1.jpg
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post #552 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by slizzap View Post

Also, just an FYI, today Realtek released version R1.98 of their HD Audio Codec. The HDMI Audio driver is still at R1.97. I just did a fresh install of Vista with these drivers, and still seeing the same problem.

I suppose this is the reason why I don't need to try R1.97. With this rate do you think they can fix most of the thing by R5.00

Quote:
Originally Posted by slizzap View Post

Also, in case this helps anyone, I configured the audio properties on my PC in the Advanced tab to use "16 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality)". Upon clicking the test button my receiver shows me the following output for 5.1 and 7.1 respectively

Any reason why you don't select 24 bit 192000 KHz (Studio Quality)?
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post #553 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Any reason why you don't select 24 bit 192000 KHz (Studio Quality)?

I did this strictly for testing since I read some discussion debating the existence of 7.1 PCM with this card. I'm still in the midst of building/configuring my HTPC (i.e. I'm slowly pulling each of my hairs out one by one)
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post #554 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by slizzap View Post

I did this strictly for testing since I read some discussion debating the existence of 7.1 PCM with this card. I'm still in the midst of building/configuring my HTPC (i.e. I'm slowly pulling each of my hairs out one by one)

Interesting. Do you mind share about the "debating the existence of 7.1 PCM" part?
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post #555 of 2819 Old 07-08-2008, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Interesting. Do you mind share about the "debating the existence of 7.1 PCM" part?

I think the discussion was actually over in this thread

Mostly I'm working from memory as I've probably read every thread that referenced the 4850 over the past few days before buying it this afternoon. That being said, my info was just for reference and probably completely unnecessary
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post #556 of 2819 Old 07-09-2008, 05:35 AM
 
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I do not use 192 because of the lack of PAP. The players must downres the sound. With Windows set to 192, it will take the downres'd sound and upres it back to 192 before sending.

I would rather just have everything set to the lower settings until I get PAP.
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post #557 of 2819 Old 07-09-2008, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slizzap View Post

I think the discussion was actually over in this thread

Mostly I'm working from memory as I've probably read every thread that referenced the 4850 over the past few days before buying it this afternoon. That being said, my info was just for reference and probably completely unnecessary

IC, I was the starter of that thread. Hope you enjoy the LPCM on your 4850.
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post #558 of 2819 Old 07-09-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I do not use 192 because of the lack of PAP. The players must downres the sound. With Windows set to 192, it will take the downres'd sound and upres it back to 192 before sending.

I would rather just have everything set to the lower settings until I get PAP.

cybrsage,

Actual I tried that I do notice a small different. Yes, it might not be the best since it is Window up convert but still worth to take the advantage of your AVR can do that until the PAP here.
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post #559 of 2819 Old 07-09-2008, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

cybrsage,

Actual I tried that I do notice a small different. Yes, it might not be the best since it is Window up convert but still worth to take the advantage of your AVR can do that until the PAP here.

It's amazing you can hear any difference at all. How could you? The additional data is already lost

Wo0zy
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post #560 of 2819 Old 07-09-2008, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Wo0zy View Post

It's amazing you can hear any difference at all. How could you? The additional data is already lost

Wo0zy

I bet it's volume. Just a 3db increase in volume will make the exact same thing sound much better, and (at least for my Yamaha receiver) different bit rates and different encodings have different levels.
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post #561 of 2819 Old 07-09-2008, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy View Post

It's amazing you can hear any difference at all. How could you? The additional data is already lost

Wo0zy

First, all I used is nothing but MIT Shogun S1 balanced and speaker cables. On the top of that, I used Power Premier Plus AC generator to regenerate all the AC needs for the 2 Krell amps, all Martin Logan speakers and pre-amp. I am not try to tell you what gears I have but with what I have, is like putting a music file in a microscope. Let me repeat what I said again - I DO hear the different between 96 to 192 especially the 2 channels listening, it is amazingly with the image, clarity and the details that you can hear the different. Sometime, I can't stand with some poor recordings...

I have been working extra time for this LPCM and bit stream deals and make sure I want to take the full advantage of this new way to send the source to my pre-amp.
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post #562 of 2819 Old 07-09-2008, 05:36 PM
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Everyone, Read the white paper on DTS HD and DTS HD Brochure. It has correct info on 48 to 192 khz. RELATED SOURCES.
http://dts.com/DTS_In_Consumer_Produ...d_So_Good.aspx

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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post #563 of 2819 Old 07-10-2008, 04:30 AM - Thread Starter
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RV730 and RV710 to launch in September

- HD 4670 (RV730 XT): $149
- HD 4650 (RV730 PRO): $129
- HD 4470 (RV710 XT): ?
- HD 4450 (RV710 PRO): $99

The prices may be a bit high. HD 3650 (HD 4650 is replacing) was $79-$99 at launch. But the number of stream processors is the same as HD 3850/3870 (320).
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post #564 of 2819 Old 07-10-2008, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

RV730 and RV710 to launch in September

- HD 4670 (RV730 XT): $149
- HD 4650 (RV730 PRO): $129
- HD 4470 (RV710 XT): ?
- HD 4450 (RV710 PRO): $99

The prices may be a bit high. HD 3650 (HD 4650 is replacing) was $79-$99 at launch. But the number of stream processors is the same as HD 3850/3870 (320).

Why would anyone buy the 4670 when you could get the 4850 a couple of weeks ago for $150?
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post #565 of 2819 Old 07-10-2008, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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One possible reason is power consumption:

HD 4650 vs. HD 4850
  • -30W @idle
  • -40W @BD playback
  • -50W @gaming
The price of HD 4850 suggested by AMD is $199. If it is available at $150, then HD 4670 will available only at $100.
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post #566 of 2819 Old 07-10-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Why would anyone buy the 4670 when you could get the 4850 a couple of weeks ago for $150?

^^like above poster.

Because those won't be the price on the street.

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post #567 of 2819 Old 07-10-2008, 09:24 AM
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As a HTPC non-gamer user, I still like my ex-GC, 3650 over my 4850, exactly what I need for BD and HD playback performance, less heat, good price. Maybe I need to try one of those 4650 and maybe that is the one I want with Asus or Auzentech HDMI sound card.
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post #568 of 2819 Old 07-10-2008, 10:57 AM
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Well here is my very brief "review" of the 4850:

I was using a 2600xt and doing component/spdif out.

I got the 4850 working relatively well, pictures were slightly sharper thanks to not using component and I *think* audio sounded better but honestly its hard for me to say. I don't have as nice equipment as hllkc.

However the reason why I decided to put back my old 2600xt and return the 4850 is due to all the headaches induced thanks to HDMI/HDCP. I had it connected to my onkyo 805 then to my LCD Tv. It worked fine when everything was on. However if I put my PC into S3/sleep mode, then turned off everything, whenever it would resume/wake (whether on its own or by me inducing it) it would fail to get a signal if the receiver/tv is off. This will happen a lot unfortunately as it records shows then goes back to sleep etc. The only "fix" was doing a hard reboot. Reading online seems like the only other option was to get one of those DVI Detectives. Frankly all this hassle isn't worth it to me for the extra money and the slightly better picture/audio.

So although I liked the product as a whole it just didn't make sense for my configuration/situation. I'm going back to component out to my matrix switch which simply worked.
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post #569 of 2819 Old 07-10-2008, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by genro View Post

Well here is my very brief "review" of the 4850:

I was using a 2600xt and doing component/spdif out.

I got the 4850 working relatively well, pictures were slightly sharper thanks to not using component and I *think* audio sounded better but honestly its hard for me to say. I don't have as nice equipment as hllkc.

However the reason why I decided to put back my old 2600xt and return the 4850 is due to all the headaches induced thanks to HDMI/HDCP. I had it connected to my onkyo 805 then to my LCD Tv. It worked fine when everything was on. However if I put my PC into S3/sleep mode, then turned off everything, whenever it would resume/wake (whether on its own or by me inducing it) it would fail to get a signal if the receiver/tv is off. This will happen a lot unfortunately as it records shows then goes back to sleep etc. The only "fix" was doing a hard reboot. Reading online seems like the only other option was to get one of those DVI Detectives. Frankly all this hassle isn't worth it to me for the extra money and the slightly better picture/audio.

So although I liked the product as a whole it just didn't make sense for my configuration/situation. I'm going back to component out to my matrix switch which simply worked.

genro,

May I ask you why you want 4850 in the first place? Are you thinking looking for better audio, picture, gaming experience or all? I agree with you that if I were you with all the hassles, I will go back 2600xt in a heart beat.
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post #570 of 2819 Old 07-10-2008, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

genro,

May I ask you why you want 4850 in the first place? Are you thinking looking for better audio, picture, gaming experience or all? I agree with you that if I were you with all the hassles, I will go back 2600xt in a heart beat.

Since I'm using Component/spdif I was hoping to get better picture/audio basically. I don't use this PC for gaming at all. I realize the 4850 is overkill for my scenario but I got it with the 25% off at Best Buy. I figured I'd go for the HDMI/LPCM option.

I do think the picture/audio were both slightly better (maybe more than slightly), but again the hassles just weren't worth it. Unless I left this PC on all the time it wasn't go to work period, and leaving it on with the added heat/noise from the 4850 wasn't going to happen. Maybe one day when there is a 4000 series card that is passive I might consider it. I need my machine to be able wake up, record a show, then go back to sleep. Additionally I don't want to have to worry telling someone else that they have to turn o the AVR/TV before the wake it from sleep. It should just WORK imho. Its not worth the headaches for slightly better video/audio. That said I really did want this to work .

Maybe eventually this will all get sorted but I guess I'll wait.

EDIT: I'll add that I dont consider myself a "newbie" in regards to HTPC's. I've been an HTPC for close to 5 years now (two different machines). I was able to install/configure the 4850 properly and get PowerDVD 7/8 working with LPCM (Thanks hlkc for your instructions btw). I had installed/reinstall/updated all my software (PDVD, MyMovies, AnyDVD, etc etc) and thought I was golden then I tested the S3 stuff and it was a disaster. God help someone who is relatively new to this stuff figuring out the nuances (e.g. PDVD started crashing whenever I played ANYTHING. It was some sort of conflict with RealTek Drivers. Fortunately going back to a saved image worked fine -- Thanks Acronis ).
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