ATI Radeon HD 4600 & 4800 series support 7.1 channel HDMI audio! - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 2819 Old 10-10-2008, 09:56 PM
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Hi! Mostly-happy HD4850 user here. I have opened another thread on some video issues I'm having, and a saga with the Pioneer Elite 84TXSi, in case anyone else has it.

I just finished reading all 33 pages of this thread. (ugh!) But man I learned a lot about how this has progressed.

It seems we still don't have a professional fix for the switching inputs/power off HDMI audio problem.

Also, am I the only person who has "24-bit, 96000Hz" as the highest setting for audio? I don't see any 192Khz options.

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post #992 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadamir View Post

Would allowing libav to do 24-bit+ require a major overhaul?

If you want to have it clean and nice then it's not a little thing to change. However, there are quick and dirty ways to get around the 16bit limitation. E.g. my eac3to tool uses a patched libav library which outputs full bitdepth for all supported codecs. The problem is that I have to reapply these patches everytime I want to rebuild libav (and I have to do that for every codec separately).

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Originally Posted by chadamir View Post

Is there any hope of the dts extensions in the near future?

I don't think there is any hope. Of course you never know. The TrueHD decoder also appeared unexpected. But DTS-HD support is probably a lot more difficult from what I can say. The current libav DTS decoder doesn't even handle 96khz or 6.1 or 7.1 DTS-ES yet. It just decodes plain DTS. So I don't expect to see a libav DTS-HD decoder anytime soon (if at all).
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post #993 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 05:05 AM
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Well, depends on what you mean by "professional". Disabling the service fixes the issue, and does it in a seamless manner. Also, a DVI Detective fixes it as well (I have tried is both ways now). Also, I've been told that .11 version (2 versions from now) of CCC will fix this issue as well.

So, all told, it's not nearly as bad an issue as it was a few months ago. Disabling the service is free and doesn't seem to cause problems for 99% of the people out there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cetrian View Post

Hi! Mostly-happy HD4850 user here. I have opened another thread on some video issues I'm having, and a saga with the Pioneer Elite 84TXSi, in case anyone else has it.

I just finished reading all 33 pages of this thread. (ugh!) But man I learned a lot about how this has progressed.

It seems we still don't have a professional fix for the switching inputs/power off HDMI audio problem.

Also, am I the only person who has "24-bit, 96000Hz" as the highest setting for audio? I don't see any 192Khz options.


_____________________________________

My Onkyo 3008 (non-professional) review
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=19539055
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post #994 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 08:23 AM
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I must admit that there are still lot of topics I need to learn even after 5 years experience of HTPC histroy. I am not sure which thread is the best to post this message so I post this message here and in Onkyo 705 owners thread also.

Below is my configuration and how I configure the system.

- Vista 32 Ultimate
- AMD 4670 video card
- Onkyo 705 receiver
- 5.1 speaker setup
- I connect 4670 to 705 using HDMI for both audi and video
- I ripped all my CDs to PC in WMA loseless format and use VMC for playing audio.
- In VMC, I set the speaker as 'Digital connection, 2 speakers' in order to get DD/DTS from DVD playback.
- In Windows, I use HDIMI audio and set speaker as 5.1.
- Listening mode for 705 is as below.
PCM/Analog -> Neural THX (expands 2 channel to 5.1 channel)
DD -> Direct
DTS -> Direct
MultiPCM -> Neural THX

The reason I set listen mode to Neural THX for PCM/MultiPCM is that I would like to get 5.1 sound from 2 channel audio.

However when the audio reaches 705 from 4670, the 705 displays MultiPCM and the listening mode is changed to 'Direct'. Because the source only has two channels when playing audio using VMS, only two front speakers are used. I think that this is because 4670 HDMI audio is set to 5.1, so 705 receives 5.1 channel sound even VMC only outputs 2 channels.

My question is that is there a way so that 4670 outputs 2 channels when I play audio and outputs 5.1 when I play DVD/BD etc. without change the Windows audio setup?
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post #995 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

I must admit that there are still lot of topics I need to learn even after 5 years experience of HTPC histroy. I am not sure which thread is the best to post this message so I post this message here and in Onkyo 705 owners thread also.

Below is my configuration and how I configure the system.

- Vista 32 Ultimate
- AMD 4670 video card
- Onkyo 705 receiver
- 5.1 speaker setup
- I connect 4670 to 705 using HDMI for both audi and video
- I ripped all my CDs to PC in WMA loseless format and use VMC for playing audio.
- In VMC, I set the speaker as 'Digital connection, 2 speakers' in order to get DD/DTS from DVD playback.
- In Windows, I use HDIMI audio and set speaker as 5.1.
- Listening mode for 705 is as below.
PCM/Analog -> Neural THX (expands 2 channel to 5.1 channel)
DD -> Direct
DTS -> Direct
MultiPCM -> Neural THX

The reason I set listen mode to Neural THX for PCM/MultiPCM is that I would like to get 5.1 sound from 2 channel audio.

However when the audio reaches 705 from 4670, the 705 displays MultiPCM and the listening mode is changed to 'Direct'. Because the source only has two channels when playing audio using VMS, only two front speakers are used. I think that this is because 4670 HDMI audio is set to 5.1, so 705 receives 5.1 channel sound even VMC only outputs 2 channels.

My question is that is there a way so that 4670 outputs 2 channels when I play audio and outputs 5.1 when I play DVD/BD etc. without change the Windows audio setup?

Hi Jeff,

I read few times and I am not 100% sure what you mean by "is there a way so that 4670 outputs 2 channels when I play audio and outputs 5.1 when I play DVD/BD etc."

I have very similar set up, I am using 4850 to my Integra 9.8 using 7.1 here. My HTPC audio signals -> pre-amp signals are same as yours. I think it is perfectly fine.
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post #996 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Hi Jeff,

I read few times and I am not 100% sure what you mean by "is there a way so that 4670 outputs 2 channels when I play audio and outputs 5.1 when I play DVD/BD etc."

I have very similar set up, I am using 4850 to my Integra 9.8 using 7.1 here. My HTPC audio signals -> pre-amp signals are same as yours. I think it is perfectly fine.

My understanding is that he is asking (and others had asked this in the past and I don't know if there was a fix), but Stereo audio (e.g. Music) will be outputted as 5.1/7.1 audio instead of just 2 channel PCM.
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post #997 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genro View Post

My understanding is that he is asking (and others had asked this in the past and I don't know if there was a fix), but Stereo audio (e.g. Music) will be outputted as 5.1/7.1 audio instead of just 2 channel PCM.

Hold on... what do you mean? what if u play some 2 channels MP3 files from fooorbar2000 or iTune, are you saying that you guys will get 5.1/7.1 audio instead of 2 channels?

Below are what I have.
Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - MP3 - 2 channels.

Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - DVD - 5.1/7.1 DTS, DD... audio depending what source I choose from the DVD menu.

Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - BD - 5.1/7.1 LPCM audio
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post #998 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Hold on... what do you mean? what if u play some 2 channels MP3 files from fooorbar2000 or iTune, are you saying that you guys will get 5.1/7.1 audio instead of 2 channels?

Below are what I have.
Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - MP3 - 2 channels.

Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - DVD - 5.1/7.1 DTS, DD... audio depending what source I choose from the DVD menu.

Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - BD - 5.1/7.1 LPCM audio

Yes that is what he was saying (I don't even own a 4850 yet so don't mind me) .

I'd be curious though if it is application specific (you said you use Foobar/itunes)? Does it do the same in WMP or VMC?
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post #999 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Hi Jeff,

I read few times and I am not 100% sure what you mean by "is there a way so that 4670 outputs 2 channels when I play audio and outputs 5.1 when I play DVD/BD etc."

I have very similar set up, I am using 4850 to my Integra 9.8 using 7.1 here. My HTPC audio signals -> pre-amp signals are same as yours. I think it is perfectly fine.

Hlkc,

What I would like is to use 705 to be able to recognize 2 channel audio and process it as 5.1 sound when I play music using VMC. However my understanding is that because I set HDMI audio device as 5.1, 4670 ends up outputting 5.1 sounds to 705 even there are only two audio channels, 705 just receives 5.1 and do nothing. As the result I can only here two channels.

I know(learned from some other thread) if I change the HDMI device (4670) to 2 speakers, 4670 will only output 2 channel PCM and 705 will recognise it and use 5.1 listening mode. But that means that I need to switch between 2 and 5.1 for HDMI device (4670) for playing BD and music.
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post #1000 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Hold on... what do you mean? what if u play some 2 channels MP3 files from fooorbar2000 or iTune, are you saying that you guys will get 5.1/7.1 audio instead of 2 channels?

Below are what I have.
Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - MP3 - 2 channels.

Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - DVD - 5.1/7.1 DTS, DD... audio depending what source I choose from the DVD menu.

Integra 9.8 using Direct mode - BD - 5.1/7.1 LPCM audio


Hlkc,

Genro is right about what I am asking for. I would like to here 5.1 instead of 2 chanels when I play music. I know 705 can do that as long as it detects analog/PCM signal in its input. However it will do nothing (aka using direct mode) for multichannel PCM signal which I believe 4670 is outputting when I set it as 5.1 even I only play music which is two channel PCM. In this mode my 705 can't do anything despite it has that capability.

So I wonder whether there is a configuration for my HTPC which can automatically change the output format of 4670 based on whether I am playing stereo music or 5.1 DVD/BD
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post #1001 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genro View Post

Yes that is what he was saying (I don't even own a 4850 yet so don't mind me) .

I'd be curious though if it is application specific (you said you use Foobar/itunes)? Does it do the same in WMP or VMC?

I believe this is the setup in Windows Sound and is not applicatio specific. I am using Vista 32 Ultimate and the sound device (4670 HDMI) can only be choosed from three options below.

2 speakers
5.1 speakers
7.1 speakers

So if I set the sound device to 5.1, it always output 5.1 sound which means that if I play music, even only there is signal for both front speakers, all other channels are still outputted with no SOUND.

Can someone confirm my theory?
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post #1002 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

Hlkc,

Genro is right about what I am asking for. I would like to here 5.1 instead of 2 chanels when I play music. I know 705 can do that as long as it detects analog/PCM signal in its input. However it will do nothing (aka using direct mode) for multichannel PCM signal which I believe 4670 is outputting when I set it as 5.1 even I only play music which is two channel PCM. In this mode my 705 can't do anything despite it has that capability.

So I wonder whether there is a configuration for my HTPC which can automatically change the output format of 4670 based on whether I am playing stereo music or 5.1 DVD/BD

Jeff,

Based on what you described, it is different than what Genro described. It looks like you want the 2 channels materials like MP3 in VMC to play 5.1/7.1 from your 705, right? I think my outcome is more pure and is intend to be and I don't mess with the 2 channels to 5.1/7.1. I think you want to make your 2 channels source to be 5.1, am I right?

If so, there is nothing to do with HTPC/VMC source. I think your behavior is correct now and if you want to have 5.1/7.1 from 2 channels sources, you need to play around the setting in your 705 and when detects 2 channels please make those to 5.1/7.1.
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post #1003 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Jeff,

Based on what you described, it is different than what Genro described. It looks like you want the 2 channels materials like MP3 in VMC to play 5.1/7.1 from your 705, right? I think my outcome is more pure and is intend to be and I don't mess with the 2 channels to 5.1/7.1. I think you want to make your 2 channels source to be 5.1, am I right?

If so, there is nothing to do with HTPC/VMC source. I think your behavior is correct now and if you want to have 5.1/7.1 from 2 channels sources, you need to play around the setting in your 705 and when detects 2 channels please make those to 5.1/7.1.

Hlkc,

You are right about I want to play 2 channel music as 5.1 because I feel that 5.1 sounds more like when you sit in theatre for live music.

And you are right that I need to play around 705. However my understanding is that when I set HDMI sound device to 5.1, 4670 will output multi channel PCM signal even there is only two channels for music. And since 705 will do nothing to multi channel PCM signal I have no way to get 5.1 effects.

And I believe that if I set HDMI device to 2 speakers, 4670 will only output 2 channel PCM signal and 705 can then process it to 5.1. I will try it tonight and make sure my understanding is right.

So based on above, what I am asking is that whether sound device (4670) can automaticaly output sound based on how many channels in the sound. For example, if 4670 output 2 channel PCM when I play music and output multi channel PCM when I play BD then I can get what I want.
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post #1004 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 10:44 AM
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My understanding is, that when I am using Vista exclusive mode for playing music (like in foobar), my receiver will receive exactly the number of channels source material has. So when I play 2.0 FLAC, receiver receives PCM 2 channels, when I play 5.1 FLAC, receiver receives PCM 5.1. I am waiting for my 4670, so I cannot test it, but it should behave that way.

There is no Directshow audio renderer that uses exclusive mode, so when playing movies Vista mixer is used and receiver receives configured number of channels with configured bitrate
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post #1005 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Even if/when it is capable, not sure how you integrate ffdshow into VMC or MediaPortal. Could you clarify that?

There is MediaPortal configuration screen where you can select directshow filter for video and audio. Simply select ffdshow and it will be used. I do not use VMC, but I think there is no such configuration so you have to change merits to enable ffdshow for audio
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post #1006 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

So if I set the sound device to 5.1, it always output 5.1 sound which means that if I play music, even only there is signal for both front speakers, all other channels are still outputted with no SOUND.

Can someone confirm my theory?

Just test and confirm here.
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post #1007 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

Hlkc,

And I believe that if I set HDMI device to 2 speakers, 4670 will only output 2 channel PCM signal and 705 can then process it to 5.1. I will try it tonight and make sure my understanding is right.

Ok I just try it in my set up and yes ONLY 2 channels coming in from my 4850.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

So based on above, what I am asking is that whether sound device (4670) can automaticaly output sound based on how many channels in the sound. For example, if 4670 output 2 channel PCM when I play music and output multi channel PCM when I play BD then I can get what I want.

But it looks like I can't get what you want, at least in my set up here. Using above example, my source is lock and only allow me to change Pure Audio, Direct and LPCM. I can't change/ask my Integra 9.8 to change the incoming 2 channels signal to what you want such as THX or anything that contains 5.1 sound... It is lock. I think it is to do with the Vista.
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post #1008 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salajm View Post

My understanding is, that when I am using Vista exclusive mode for playing music (like in foobar), my receiver will receive exactly the number of channels source material has. So when I play 2.0 FLAC, receiver receives PCM 2 channels, when I play 5.1 FLAC, receiver receives PCM 5.1. I am waiting for my 4670, so I cannot test it, but it should behave that way.

There is no Directshow audio renderer that uses exclusive mode, so when playing movies Vista mixer is used and receiver receives configured number of channels with configured bitrate


What interface you are using between your sound card the your receiver?
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post #1009 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Ok I just try it in my set up and yes ONLY 2 channels coming in from my 4850.

But it looks like I can't get what you want, at least in my set up here. Using above example, my source is lock and only allow me to change Pure Audio, Direct and LPCM. I can't change/ask my Integra 9.8 to change the incoming 2 channels signal to what you want such as THX or anything that contains 5.1 sound... It is lock. I think it is to do with the Vista.

Hlkc,

Thank you for trying this out for me. I also tried many configurations on my system and here is the result.

1) No matter I choose stereo or 5.1 for RealTek HDMI device, I only get PCM out. On my 705, I can only choose direct, stero and pure audio listening mode.

However in 705 user's manual, it says THX is a listening mode which can spand 2 channel audio to 5.1 or 7.1. I will ask this questio in 705 owner thread.

2) I found a enhancement setting in property dialog of the Realtek HDMI device which is called 'speak fill'. It is described as that a surounding sound effect will be produced by the device for stereo signal. I tried that and I got Multich PCM signal out on my 705 and all 5 speaks sound. So this is the mode I will use for a while until I figure out how to use 705 to do that which I believe will be more effective than Vista.
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post #1010 of 2819 Old 10-11-2008, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

1) No matter I choose stereo or 5.1 for RealTek HDMI device, I only get PCM out. On my 705, I can only choose direct, stero and pure audio listening mode.

What about DTS and other encoding DVD? Do you get DTS or other encoding on your 705? I can choose all I want from the menu and my pre-amp will decoding them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

2) I found a enhancement setting in property dialog of the Realtek HDMI device which is called 'speak fill'. It is described as that a surounding sound effect will be produced by the device for stereo signal. I tried that and I got Multich PCM signal out on my 705 and all 5 speaks sound. So this is the mode I will use for a while until I figure out how to use 705 to do that which I believe will be more effective than Vista.

Yes, I just try "speak fill" and all my 7.1 speakers have sound right away. But I am more a pure 2 channels guy, I prefer to stick with the 2 channels when I play 2 channels materials. But this will be the work around for you.
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post #1011 of 2819 Old 10-12-2008, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

What interface you are using between your sound card the your receiver?

Currently I am using SPDIF. When using exclusive mode I can play back 2.0 FLACs, but when I try to play 5.1 FLAC, I get an error because my audio driver do not supports this number of channels. So no channel conversion between input and output.
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post #1012 of 2819 Old 10-12-2008, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

What about DTS and other encoding DVD? Do you get DTS or other encoding on your 705? I can choose all I want from the menu and my pre-amp will decoding them.

Yes, with this configuratio I get DD and DTS bitstreamed to 705 and the DD/DTS indicator lit. IN addition I can use 705 to do many post processing so that I can choose many listening mode like THX Cinema as well as others.
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post #1013 of 2819 Old 10-12-2008, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by salajm View Post

Currently I am using SPDIF. When using exclusive mode I can play back 2.0 FLACs, but when I try to play 5.1 FLAC, I get an error because my audio driver do not supports this number of channels. So no channel conversion between input and output.

Just curious, have you tried to select listenigng mode other than DIRECT in your receiver?
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post #1014 of 2819 Old 10-12-2008, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

Just curious, have you tried to select listenigng mode other than DIRECT in your receiver?

Yes, but this will result in 2.0 -> 5.0 conversion (DPL II). But still I cannot play 5.1 FLAC. I must use analog, or disable exclusive mode.
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post #1015 of 2819 Old 10-12-2008, 11:15 AM
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Just wondering what other happy 4850 owners are using for 1080p MKV playback?

One interesting tradeoff seems to be that I can't just look at my reciever to see if DTS or Dolby are working properly anymore. It's always on "PCM 96Khz"

I see a lot of mention of PDVD8, and something called TMT. Personally, I use KMPlayer so I can tweak everything, but it can be an awful headache sometimes. I do like the professional look of KMPlayer though.

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post #1016 of 2819 Old 10-12-2008, 01:19 PM
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post #1017 of 2819 Old 10-12-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by salajm View Post

Yes, but this will result in 2.0 -> 5.0 conversion (DPL II). But still I cannot play 5.1 FLAC. I must use analog, or disable exclusive mode.

Actually I also tried using SPDIF via coxial. I can't select anything listening mode other than DIRECT and Stereo. This must be because I am using VMS for playing music which doesn't use exclusive mode.
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post #1018 of 2819 Old 10-12-2008, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by salajm View Post

Yes, but this will result in 2.0 -> 5.0 conversion (DPL II). But still I cannot play 5.1 FLAC. I must use analog, or disable exclusive mode.

MadFlac?

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post #1019 of 2819 Old 10-13-2008, 12:42 PM
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MadFlac?

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post #1020 of 2819 Old 10-13-2008, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

Actually I also tried using SPDIF via coxial. I can't select anything listening mode other than DIRECT and Stereo. This must be because I am using VMS for playing music which doesn't use exclusive mode.

I can use DPL II even I do not use exclusive mode. Receiver is getting stereo and can expand it to 5.0 without any problems
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