ATI Radeon HD 4600 & 4800 series support 7.1 channel HDMI audio! - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 2819 Old 06-10-2008, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jojoxl View Post

Supposedly this is a hard launch, so you should be able to buy the cards on-line on those dates. B&M stores will probably get them a couple of weeks later.

Some local stores have already received 4850s. Expect some to even be sold early (they always do ~ stockboys love setting up their friends...) availability of 4870 is still unknown.

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Originally Posted by markm75 View Post

I'm guessing they dont make a board which does both nvidia sli and crossfire?

With nvidia you can use a software script to turn off sli.. can the same be done on a crossfire board? Does using crossfire mean that only one of the 4 video ports will work.. Or if you use two 4850's independently, i wonder what this will imply as far as the truehd or hdmi audio going out across the hdmi.. would they both have hdmi audio..

Yes, Skulltrail can do both SLI and Xfire. And you will pay for it, dearly.
Crossfire is fully adjustable and the cards can work together or as separate devices with their own monitors.
The 4850/4870 cards have the ability to process and send 7.1 channels of HD audio along with video on the HDMI cable. Bitstream capability is unknown, but multichannel LPCM is all but guaranteed. I 'think' that only one of the outputs can run HDMI, but I could be wrong. There really is no reason that you couldn't buy an extra DVI/HDMI plug adapter and have one on each port.
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post #212 of 2819 Old 06-10-2008, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

Some local stores have already received 4850s. Expect some to even be sold early (they always do ~ stockboys love setting up their friends...) availability of 4870 is still unknown.

Do you "know" that some stores have already received them or is that an educated guess?
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post #213 of 2819 Old 06-10-2008, 01:42 PM
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What about 4650? Any news and launch date about that?
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post #214 of 2819 Old 06-10-2008, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

I 'think' that only one of the outputs can run HDMI, but I could be wrong. There really is no reason that you couldn't buy an extra DVI/HDMI plug adapter and have one on each port.

I am not sure if this is any help, but with the 7.7 drivers you can definitely get dual simultaneous HDMI working (on an HD2600XT) with a second adapter. This doesn't seem to be supported on later drivers and when contacting ATI about requesting this feature (on more recent releases), I was told that it wasn't an included feature and they didn't believe the card was capable of it. I told them I would be happy to include a screen shot but I didn't hear back from them at that point.
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post #215 of 2819 Old 06-10-2008, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

Some local stores have already received 4850s. Expect some to even be sold early (they always do ~ stockboys love setting up their friends...) availability of 4870 is still unknown.



Yes, Skulltrail can do both SLI and Xfire. And you will pay for it, dearly.
Crossfire is fully adjustable and the cards can work together or as separate devices with their own monitors.
The 4850/4870 cards have the ability to process and send 7.1 channels of HD audio along with video on the HDMI cable. Bitstream capability is unknown, but multichannel LPCM is all but guaranteed. I 'think' that only one of the outputs can run HDMI, but I could be wrong. There really is no reason that you couldn't buy an extra DVI/HDMI plug adapter and have one on each port.


My biggest hope is that i can have bluray on the pc.. then use cyberlink powerdvd on the pc.. play the movie and via the hdmi on the 4850 get truehd on my yamaha decoding hdmi receiver.. just as if i had a consumer bluray player hooked up to it.. i'm assuming this will all be possible, just possibly with a downsampled bitrate?

I'm sending video from one room to the other.. i have an office and living room.. it would be cool to be able to have the video as crossfire in either room, but that might require a 2 port switch with one output which are hard to find, at least in crossfire mode.. unless i could have two outputs at one time in crossfire mode at full speed.

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post #216 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 09:09 AM
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Curious what the difference in hdmi audio is with this series card the hd2600.. is it that the 2600 is really spdif over hdmi?

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post #217 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm75 View Post

Curious what the difference in hdmi audio is with this series card the hd2600.. is it that the 2600 is really spdif over hdmi?

All current ATI 2XXX and 3XXX only transmits 2 channels LPCM using a gray DVI-to-HDMI dongle via HDMI.

We are hopping this 4XXX will able to do 8 channels bit-stream but at least we know it will do 8 channels LPCM using a DVI-to-HDMI dongle via HDMI.

In July, Asus will launch a sound card that can do both LPCM and bit-stream 8 channels over HDMI.
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post #218 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

All current ATI 2XXX and 3XXX only transmits 2 channels LPCM using a gray DVI-to-HDMI dongle via HDMI.

We are hopping this 4XXX will able to do 8 channels bit-stream but at least we know it will do 8 channels LPCM using a DVI-to-HDMI dongle via HDMI.

In July, Asus will launch a sound card that can do both LPCM and bit-stream 8 channels over HDMI.

This is good news indeed.. either way ill be happy as long as powerdvd can transmit the truehd from bluray media.

On the asus note.. i hadnt heard this.. any idea what model they are calling it.. will it interface / work with any hdmi/dvi to hdmi video card.. ie: geforce 8600gt etc? Or require a daughter card (IE: two slots instead of just one in the case of the 4850, or so it appears).

Thanks

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post #219 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 12:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by markm75 View Post

This is good news indeed.. either way ill be happy as long as powerdvd can transmit the truehd from bluray media.

On the asus note.. i hadnt heard this.. any idea what model they are calling it.. will it interface / work with any hdmi/dvi to hdmi video card.. ie: geforce 8600gt etc? Or require a daughter card (IE: two slots instead of just one in the case of the 4850, or so it appears).

Thanks

It will be called the Asus Xonar HDAV1.3. It will have an HDMI in and an HDMI out. You take the HDMI out from your vid card, send it to the sound card, sound card adds the sound and sends it out HDMI.

You can read up on it here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036319
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post #220 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by markm75 View Post

This is good news indeed.. either way ill be happy as long as powerdvd can transmit the truehd from bluray media.
Thanks

That is the missing puzzle everyone is waiting for. Please note that even with 4XXX or Xonar HDAV1.3, we still need PDVD output not downsampling stream before we will able to enjoy the BD loseless format.
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post #221 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 01:32 PM
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Problem with the Asus is you have to use Acrsoft TMT. Which is fine if you play discs. But all of my discs are ripped to the hardware and TMT won't play MKV's.

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post #222 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 01:42 PM
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But the signal will still be TrueHD via PowerDVD would it not.. just downsampled a bit? So once they provide newer and better software this wont be an issue i'm assuming?

Why would using the Asus sound card mean you would have to use Acrsoft?

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post #223 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm75 View Post


Why would using the Asus sound card mean you would have to use Acrsoft?

They require it for full rez Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD. They are shipping a custom version of arcsoft with the card.

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post #224 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

Problem with the Asus is you have to use Acrsoft TMT. Which is fine if you play discs. But all of my discs are ripped to the hardware and TMT won't play MKV's.

I doubt this is TMT exclusive kind of deal... I bet PDVD8 will do just fine since CL has a bigger market share than TMT in this regard.

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Originally Posted by markm75 View Post

But the signal will still be TrueHD via PowerDVD would it not.. just downsampled a bit? So once they provide newer and better software this wont be an issue i'm assuming?

Why would using the Asus sound card mean you would have to use Acrsoft?

Yes so I expect when we have the card on hand and still using today PDVD8 I would say we will down sampled until CL has the version that not down sampled before we can have real fun

No and I really doubt that.
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post #225 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

I doubt this is TMT exclusive kind of deal... I bet PDVD8 will do just fine since CL has a bigger market share than TMT in this regard.

Asus just said that arcsoft is required and they will be providing a version of it for use. Beyond that I don't know.

I don't use arcsoft and I don't use PowerDVD, at least not for the player, just for the AVC codec so I get HA.
All my playback is done via VMC.

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post #226 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

I doubt this is TMT exclusive kind of deal...

When all of the Bitstream details were released the Asus and Arcsoft reps told the press that the HD Bitstream function would only function using the included Arcsoft Theatre player. That is good, since it is included (and won't cost extra like PDVDultraHD), but bad if you don't want to use that player.

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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

It will be called the Asus Xonar HDAV1.3. It will have an HDMI in and an HDMI out. You take the HDMI out from your vid card, send it to the sound card, sound card adds the sound and sends it out HDMI.

Expect the HDAV to land at ~$200 for the basic card and over $250 if you want the daughter card with all of the analog outputs. That is greater than what the HD4850 is going to sell for and it will provide everything except maybe Bitstream as a freebie.

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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Do you "know" that some stores have already received them or is that an educated guess?

A Swedish website has already started selling them. When ATI/AMD announced the slight delay of the 4850 (to align with 4870) they indicated that their partners were upset because they had thousands of 4850s all ready to sell. B&M stores typically receive new product 4-10 days before launch. I bought my 6800GT a full week prior to launch from Best Buy.
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post #227 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 02:31 PM
 
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I would assume ripped MKVs with discreet FLAC would be able to be output (MadFLAC) to this device and sent to the receiver as PCM losslessly, correct? As would any other decoded 5.1/7.1 source, in the same manner you would output to analog? (IE: Apple.com 1080p trailers with 5.1 AAC, decoded to PCM and sent to the reciever as such via HDMI)

Also, if bitstreaming is a reality, how hard would it be for someone to write a DirectShow filter that bitstreams TrueHD/DD+, and DTS-HD/MA via HDMI? Seems like it would be easier than FFDShow's EAC3 decoder, so that could be a possibility?

At that point we'd only need AnyDVD HD, MPC, and appropriate filters for a lossless disc-playback alternative to PowerDVD & Arcsoft TMT (albeit no menu support).
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post #228 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

When all of the Bitstream details were released the Asus and Arcsoft reps told the press that the HD Bitstream function would only function using the included Arcsoft Theatre player. That is good, since it is included (and won't cost extra like PDVDultraHD), but bad if you don't want to use that player.

I did miss that and I guess as long as it is free then I will take it. But I still think just a matter of them CL will find a way to do that one way or the other; might not be this card thou. Thanks for the info!
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post #229 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

I did miss that and I guess as long as it is free then I will take it. But I still think just a matter of them CL will find a way to do that one way or the other; might not be this card thou. Thanks for the info!

Because this ability relates to the software portion of the audio Protect Path it is most likely something that cannot be 'worked around'. I am sure that Asus and Arcsoft are 'partners' and they have taken steps to prevent other players from benefiting. I have strongly considered the Asus card, but since I want to keep my signal digital, would like to not add another device if possible, and would rather spend that extra $200 on another TB of storage ~ I will most likely pass. A reliable 7.1 LPCM HD should be fine. Maybe this summer Arcsoft's competitors will finally deliver a player that does not down-bit the audio and make the Bitstream feature less important.

Besides, the HDAV is already missing its target by not being released in half-height for all of those slim HTPCs out there.
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post #230 of 2819 Old 06-11-2008, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

Because this ability relates to the software portion of the audio Protect Path it is most likely something that cannot be 'worked around'. I am sure that Asus and Arcsoft are 'partners' and they have taken steps to prevent other players from benefiting. I have strongly considered the Asus card, but since I want to keep my signal digital, would like to not add another device if possible, and would rather spend that extra $200 on another TB of storage ~ I will most likely pass. A reliable 7.1 LPCM HD should be fine. Maybe this summer Arcsoft's competitors will finally deliver a player that does not down-bit the audio and make the Bitstream feature less important.

Besides, the HDAV is already missing its target by not being released in half-height for all of those slim HTPCs out there.

As you said, let's hope the other player not down sampled or perhaps they will 'partner' with other card(s).
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post #231 of 2819 Old 06-12-2008, 09:58 AM
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i'm kind of conflicted about this. on one hand i absolutely want bitstream, pcm, ddl, dts-c, over the SAME HDMI cable to AV Receiver where it can decode the HD audio streams and pass the video signal to projector or HDTV. that's awesome.

but on the other hand, i'm a huge video gamer. we will be constantly upgrading video cards and buying the audio costs OVER and OVER and OVER again and again and again. therefore, for PC gamers, teh solution is to buy separate. i hope they make video cards that don't have the audio BUILT in on all models.

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post #232 of 2819 Old 06-12-2008, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

i'm kind of conflicted about this. on one hand i absolutely want bitstream, pcm, ddl, dts-c, over the SAME HDMI cable to AV Receiver where it can decode the HD audio streams and pass the video signal to projector or HDTV. that's awesome.

but on the other hand, i'm a huge video gamer. we will be constantly upgrading video cards and buying the audio costs OVER and OVER and OVER again and again and again. therefore, for PC gamers, teh solution is to buy separate. i hope they make video cards that don't have the audio BUILT in on all models.

Digitally handling the audio, like HD motherboard audio chips or the included audio chip on the ATI cards is cheap. It costs very little and it makes sense to include that solution as a value-added feature if possible. Two things can increase the cost of audio in the PC. Processing and analog conversion. Motherboards (and the Radeons) use the CPU for special processing needs. And analog conversion (DACs) suck long and hard on just about every motherboard and are not even present on the Radeons. If you need advanced processing, like EAX or other effects, or if you plan on using analog connections you should buy a dedicated card. If you just want the digital connection to a receiver than you really just want the cheapest way to get all the zeros and ones out.
For your particular situation, as a gamer, you need to decide if EAX is required. If you don't need it, and many gamers don't now, you should be pretty happy with 7.1 LPCM that ATI will provide essentially for free. The option is the Asus or Azuntech cards which will add about $200 to your costs right there.
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post #233 of 2819 Old 06-12-2008, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

i'm kind of conflicted about this. on one hand i absolutely want bitstream, pcm, ddl, dts-c, over the SAME HDMI cable to AV Receiver where it can decode the HD audio streams and pass the video signal to projector or HDTV. that's awesome.

but on the other hand, i'm a huge video gamer. we will be constantly upgrading video cards and buying the audio costs OVER and OVER and OVER again and again and again. therefore, for PC gamers, teh solution is to buy separate. i hope they make video cards that don't have the audio BUILT in on all models.

You might want to wait a bit longer, a month, and instead of this card, you might want to consider this HDMI sound card. Just make sure your next, next and next GC has HDMI out and add sound from this sound card to your AVR.
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post #234 of 2819 Old 06-12-2008, 09:50 PM
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looks like this board is starting to be available as the cards hit the stores (even though they aren't supposed to be selling it yet): http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=432522

It would be interesting to ask him about HDMI audio support...
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post #235 of 2819 Old 06-13-2008, 07:03 AM
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looks like this board is starting to be available as the cards hit the stores (even though they aren't supposed to be selling it yet): http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=432522

It would be interesting to ask him about HDMI audio support...

I am surprise by now we don't even know the card can do 8 channels bit stream or not... I hope I don't have to get it and found out myself
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post #236 of 2819 Old 06-13-2008, 07:21 AM
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I am surprise by now we don't even know the card can do 8 channels bit stream or not... I hope I don't have to get it and found out myself

The focus on the new ATI/AMD cards has been solely on performance and the surprise ability to outperform Nvidia handily at the same price points. We are going to have to wait for a review that goes beyond Crysis frames per second and 3DMark scores and examines the abilities of the entire device.
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post #237 of 2819 Old 06-13-2008, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

The focus on the new ATI/AMD cards has been solely on performance and the surprise ability to outperform Nvidia handily at the same price points. We are going to have to wait for a review that goes beyond Crysis frames per second and 3DMark scores and examines the abilities of the entire device.

As a non-gamers, I'm in need from this card for different need perhaps as you refer as "surprise ability" - 8 channels LPCM and/or bit-stream...
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post #238 of 2819 Old 06-13-2008, 12:43 PM
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As a non-gamers, I'm in need from this card for different need perhaps as you refer as "surprise ability" - 8 channels LPCM and/or bit-stream...

No, the surprise is that ATI is back in the ring with Nvidia. ATI appears likely to steal the $300 and under crowns based upon price/performance. That is going to create a lot of demand for these cards from gamers. Strictly speaking, the 4850 may not be the best choice for non-gaming HTPCs. It might be best to wait for their lower end, possibly half-height cards, which will do all of the video and audio just as well. But if you game, and Bitstream and EAX is not an absolute must-have, the 4850/70 will be the product for you. Who knows, it might even do Bitstream. Aren't there any audio Fanboi sites that do detailed reviews of pre-release hardware?
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post #239 of 2819 Old 06-14-2008, 05:51 AM
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7.1 confirmed , now time to test this thing

xtremesystems org forums showthread.php?t=191096 (place . / / between words)
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post #240 of 2819 Old 06-14-2008, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

I am surprise by now we don't even know the card can do 8 channels bit stream or not... I hope I don't have to get it and found out myself

My distributer just got a bunch in on Friday. I may pick one up Monday and install it if a project at work finishes up ok. Otherwise, I'll have to wait on it till I have more time.

They are definitely in the channel.

EDIT: My local price is $199, which is what you would expect the large web retailers to sell it for, maybe a little less, though a lot of folks mark up heavily in the early days.
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