*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 104 - AVS Forum
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post #3091 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rew452 View Post

As far as I know .126 is retail current release but does not support HDAV's new audio formats

.125 is the current Asus version of TMT that does support HDAV.

.129 was really the last 3 digits of the ftp file name for .125 the full ftp file name is TMT_20081129. Not a new version.

Rew



Rew,

Thank you for your reply. Is that means retail version has no plan to do bit stream? Is your LPCM working? Do you have Vista or XP?
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post #3092 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper12 View Post

Thanks for helping. I have those settings, TMT set to HDMI and in the xonar set to HDMI. But It never says LPCM passthrough when playing in TMT. It says LPCM 4500Kbs mostly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

It should say 48k/24 PCM.

Just wanted to post back that LPCM 4500Kbs is the correct display for movies with native LPCM uncompressed soundtracks like Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest and 48k/24 PCM is for decoded soundtracks like Dolby True-HD - so both is correct depending on the native sound source. It doesn't appear that LPCM soundtracks require PAP since I can use both the 5.1 and HDMI output setting with no problem otherwise with Dolby True-HD I wouldn't be able to output in HDMI/passthrough mode when skipping the Xonar for video. The reason it doesn't say passthrough for LPCM is that it's not running in a exclusive type mode and depending on your output settings, may or may not be being tampered with (just make sure to press the Hi Fi button in the Xonar control panel to bypass all DSP effects, leave all volume controls left at max, etc.) So in essence, exclusive mode doesn't exist for LPCM even though it may be bit for bit perfect and untouched (again depending if all output setting come into alignment).

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Originally Posted by kbil69 View Post

Naturally my graphics card is connected on the HDMI IN HDVA.
And the HDMI OUT of the HDVA is connected to the amplifier on the HDMI IN. The adapter is connected on HDMI OUT of the amplifier to go towards the videoprojector.

Thx

Then it is probably something to do with HDCP/Protected Audio Path compliancy or handshake error. Nice fun stuff, isn't it? Be happy to go through hassles with your expensive hardware over HDCP while pirates freely pirate the movies without hassle as they always do. Now pat the guys on the back in charge of creating HDCP/PAP/DRM and tell them, job well done!

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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

We'll I've officially given up with the Xonar as a part of my HTPC upgrade. Too hard, too little gain just for integrated HDMI. I'll just stick with coax plus DVI-HMDI out my 8800GTS.

Can't say I blame you, even though I like to at least have on board decoding and LPCM output where otherwise I only had optical output with no Hi-Def support at all. You said it, too hard, too little gain. It needs to be as easy and seamless as DVD playback over SPDIF. Not likely going to ever happen.
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post #3093 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1205 View Post


When you get your 3808 just leave your audio setting at "standard" that way it will put out whatever the source is. I dont know about the rest of the folks here but I can tell a difference between the bitstreamed audio and the PCM. Maybe its just how the 3808 handles it with the Audessy MultEQ.

Same here, I can tell a difference. I think it probably is the receivers handling each input format differently because when I bitstream the center channel is quieter (too quiet), the sub/bass is louder (too loud), and the rears seems to be slightly quieter than PCM as well... PCM just seems much better balanced and clearer to me... When I had my system wired for bitstreaming the last time, I should of tested back and forth with the Pure Direct mode enabled on my receiver to bypass all DSP effects - then maybe I would of had the same sound from both HDMI and PCM. Someone mentioned in another thread here that their receiver didn't apply bass management to LPCM input like it did to bitstreaming. This is probably what's happening here - the receiver is simply applying DSP differently to each source or not at all to one or the other.
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post #3094 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Then it is probably something to do with HDCP/Protected Audio Path compliancy or handshake error. Nice fun stuff, isn't it? Be happy to go through hassles with your expensive hardware over HDCP while pirates freely pirate the movies without hassle as they always do. Now pat the guys on the back in charge of creating HDCP/PAP/DRM and tell them, job well done!



I look at supports bluray
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post #3095 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Just wanted to post back that LPCM 4500Kbs is the correct display for movies with native LPCM uncompressed soundtracks like Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest and 48k/24 PCM is for decoded soundtracks like Dolby True-HD - so both is correct depending on the native sound source. It doesn't appear that LPCM soundtracks require PAP since I can use both the 5.1 and HDMI output setting with no problem otherwise with Dolby True-HD I wouldn't be able to output in HDMI/passthrough mode when skipping the Xonar for video. The reason it doesn't say passthrough for LPCM is that it's not running in a exclusive type mode and depending on your output settings, may or may not be being tampered with (just make sure to press the Hi Fi button in the Xonar control panel to bypass all DSP effects, leave all volume controls left at max, etc.) So in essence, exclusive mode doesn't exist for LPCM even though it may be bit for bit perfect and untouched (again depending if all output setting come into alignment).

Just to make sure, if we do LPCM from a native sound source from a BD, the receiver will see PCM and 48 to 196 KHz depending the Xonar Control Panel setting, right? If it is the case, what I don't get it will be LPCM won't be PAP/exclusive mode and we are able to use window mixer to raise/lower the volume, right? If it is true, then LPCM is not the best way since Window mixer might touching the stream and that is the first place that we try to avoid and that's the reason why we all getting this card.
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post #3096 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Same here, I can tell a difference. I think it probably is the receivers handling each input format differently because when I bitstream the center channel is quieter (too quiet), the sub/bass is louder (too loud), and the rears seems to be slightly quieter than PCM as well... PCM just seems much better balanced and clearer to me... When I had my system wired for bitstreaming the last time, I should of tested back and forth with the Pure Direct mode enabled on my receiver to bypass all DSP effects - then maybe I would of had the same sound from both HDMI and PCM. Someone mentioned in another thread here that their receiver didn't apply bass management to LPCM input like it did to bitstreaming. This is probably what's happening here - the receiver is simply applying DSP differently to each source or not at all to one or the other.

I know for a fact that the new Marantz HD Pre/Pro for instance, does not have the processing power to decode HD onboard and also apply Audyssey. I don't know for sure if this is what some poeple are experiencing when they try to compare them but it is worth considering.

I believe that the Onkyo receivers do not have this problem but couldn't say for sure about any other makes/models.

Adam
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post #3097 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Just to make sure, if we do LPCM from a native sound source from a BD, the receiver will see PCM and 48 to 196 KHz depending the Xonar Control Panel setting, right? If it is the case, what I don't get it will be LPCM won't be PAP/exclusive mode and we are able to use window mixer to raise/lower the volume, right? If it is true, then LPCM is not the best way since Window mixer might touching the stream and that is the first place that we try to avoid and that's the reason why we all getting this card.

Exactly, until TMT indicates passthrough I am skeptical. ASUS mod posts differently but I am skeptical cause as I posted before, it "seems" the same as lpcm out the 8200.

Others with lpcm out vid card, is it similar?

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post #3098 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

I know for a fact that the new Marantz HD Pre/Pro for instance, does not have the processing power to decode HD onboard and also apply Audyssey. I don't know for sure if this is what some poeple are experiencing when they try to compare them but it is worth considering.

I believe that the Onkyo receivers do not have this problem but couldn't say for sure about any other makes/models.

Adam

I got a onkyo 606 with audessey and have same experience with bitstreaming as Emig5m, center is in most cases to low and I have to adjust the center by +3DB, bass is way to loud in some scenes and rears I have problem hearing. When I set 5.1 in tmt instead of hdmi the center was loud and clear , bass ok and all the surround channels was easy to distinguish.

Ive been testing the xonar for months in xp, but had to emigrate to vista since xp started doing random reboots on my games, dxdiag (display), using spdif in kmplayer or mediaplayer classic etc. No reboots in vista though, but its really annoying to have to switch between playback devices in vista (speakers and digital output) in addition to hdmi/soundcard mode in xonar everytime.
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post #3099 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Rew,

Thank you for your reply. Is that means retail version has no plan to do bit stream? Is your LPCM working? Do you have Vista or XP?

Arcsoft indicated maybe sometime in the future when HDAV is completed; it maybe included in retail version.

As far as LPCM I am using the analog outputs to my Denon AVR-3805, I can only say it sounds very good but I have no positive indicator as to what is actually being decoded. My HDAV driver is set to PCM.

Rew

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post #3100 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rew452 View Post

Arcsoft indicated maybe sometime in the future when HDAV is completed; it maybe included in retail version.

As far as LPCM I am using the analog outputs to my Denon AVR-3805, I can only say it sounds very good but I have no positive indicator as to what is actually being decoded. My HDAV driver is set to PCM.

Rew

rew,

When you do LPCM via HDAV1.3 to your AVR, can you use Window to raise/lower the volume and when you test the sound using the properties, will you hear them together with the movie if you playing a movie? If so, Window is touching it!
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post #3101 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Just to make sure, if we do LPCM from a native sound source from a BD, the receiver will see PCM and 48 to 196 KHz depending the Xonar Control Panel setting, right? If it is the case, what I don't get it will be LPCM won't be PAP/exclusive mode and we are able to use window mixer to raise/lower the volume, right? If it is true, then LPCM is not the best way since Window mixer might touching the stream and that is the first place that we try to avoid and that's the reason why we all getting this card.

Yes, you're exactly right - you're receiver will show PCM at whatever the Xonar's control panels frequency is set to. And you're also right that Windows mixer can be touching it because LPCM output even with a LPCM native soundtrack in HDMI mode is not working in a exclusive passthrough mode like Dolby True-HD and DTS-MASTER is (probably the reason TMT doesn't say passthrough). Just tried it again and volume effects it, output frequency (although only 44.1Khz and 48Khz worked - got no sound from 96 and 192Khz), where as when running in exclusive passthrough for AC3/DTS/Dolby True-HD etc... those settings have no effect. This still doesn't mean that it's not possible that it's transferring bit for bit perfect sound untouched like Asus claims when all output settings are in perfect alignment. This is why you should always set the frequency to what the movie is because any change in frequency is automatically touching/resampling it. Xonar/TMT needs to be able to detect what the input source is for LPCM and instantly bypass all user settings in the Xonar control panel for the HDMI setting to get a exclusive type mode passthrough effect like with True-HD/DTS-Master/etc. where none on the control panel settings can effect it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marflow View Post

I got a onkyo 606 with audessey and have same experience with bitstreaming as Emig5m, center is in most cases to low and I have to adjust the center by +3DB, bass is way to loud in some scenes and rears I have problem hearing. When I set 5.1 in tmt instead of hdmi the center was loud and clear , bass ok and all the surround channels was easy to distinguish.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience! Nice to actually see some consistency here! Especially for two totally different receivers and room corrections (mine is Yamaha with YPAO, not audessey). Now the question begs, if decoding by the Xonar and outputting LPCM is the same as just passing through and letting your receiver decode, just the decoding done at different locations as mentioned by some poster in this thread, then why do they both sound different? And if it's a case of our receivers treating each type differently and applying DSP different, why does it do this? Wouldn't that defeat to purpose of having the DSP features if it only works half the time? Or am I originally right that you lose some DSP features and functions when the receiver is decoding HD from lack or processing power? (which is the most logical explanation so far.)
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post #3102 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 05:58 PM
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I have two problems,
1st when I bring back the system from an s3 sleep state I lose all audio and the only way I can get it back is through a reboot, Whenn booting up I can hear a relay on the hdav1.3 audio card kicking in but on a sleep state it does not, If anyone can help with this thanks?

2nd In window media center with cablecard, All the audio is comming through as PCM and im not getting the Dolby Digital flag on DD shows. is there a setting i need to change, Thanks for any help.

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post #3103 of 9571 Old 12-16-2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerbones View Post

I have two problems,
1st when I bring back the system from an s3 sleep state I lose all audio and the only way I can get it back is through a reboot, Whenn booting up I can hear a relay on the hdav1.3 audio card kicking in but on a sleep state it does not, If anyone can help with this thanks?

2nd In window media center with cablecard, All the audio is comming through as PCM and im not getting the Dolby Digital flag on DD shows. is there a setting i need to change, Thanks for any help.

try going into the xonar control center and switch from hdmi to av/analogue and back again?
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post #3104 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

rew,

When you do LPCM via HDAV1.3 to your AVR, can you use Window to raise/lower the volume and when you test the sound using the properties, will you hear them together with the movie if you playing a movie? If so, Window is touching it!

I saw your post late last night and right you are but the question remains;

Is windows really in the chain or is windows just reflecting HDAV driver settings???

I do know the sound from HDAV decoding exiting sound formats and the new ones seem to be considerable better and fuller.

I have a XA2 so I have enjoyed the new formats before; via it's analog outs.

Asus definitely needs to clean up and finish this driver from the analog side we need Speaker Delay Setups and some Positive Indicator as to what format is being decoded.

Don't have a AVR which can decode HDMI audio, so I can't say for it.

I am not sure if there is anyway to answer this without some input from Asus and or a MS informed person such as the guy who use to keep us informed on MS VC-1 and the Vista sound system; I think his name was Amir but I don't think he is any longer with MS.

Rew

2 more things to put icing on the cake;

1. Separate speaker equalizer settings
2. Test tone such as Pink noise and say a single tone such as 1Khz for calibration.

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post #3105 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 10:56 AM
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I've just bought the Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe.

What is the right software/drivers installation order for using with Vista 32bit and which versions of each of them should I use ?

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post #3106 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 10:59 AM
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I use Harman receiver AVR 355 with HTPC Vista X64. I have a problem with Xonar.

1. In Xonar HDAV Center HDMI tab, I can choose sound output and can hear test sound not above PCM 48 Khz and my AVR show it's only multi-ch PCM.

2. When I Play BD iso rip TMT show it's Dolby trueHD passtrough but I can't hear anything.

Where are these problem come from 355? or Xonar HDAV? and what should I do?
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post #3107 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. MarioMan View Post

I've just bought the Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe.

What is the right software/drivers installation order for using with Vista 32bit and which versions of each of them should I use ?

It is all in the Asus site download section and just make sure use TMT .125 and you should be all set.
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post #3108 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 11:46 AM
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Rew, Emig5m and Davinleeds,

Thanks for the info regarding LPCM. Actually I am happy and honestly I have everything else and just a small portion of LPCM BD that I can't confirm Window is touching it or not that won't kills me, just bother me a bit and feel something is not 100% completed. To me, it is a big step from all codec to Windows mixer before sending it to my pre-amp compare to bit stream all except LPCM.

Also, I find that Asus OEM TMT .125 is far better than the PDVD 7 and 8 that I have been using for long time. I have not crash a single time as I have been changing around the setting during the playback and load up lot faster than my PDVD8 version right before I switched it to TMT.

Overall I am happy to join this wagon and let's bitsream NOW!
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post #3109 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Rew, Emig5m and Davinleeds,
Also, I find that Asus OEM TMT .125 is far better than the PDVD 7 and 8 that I have been using for long time. I have not crash a single time as I have been changing around the setting during the playback and load up lot faster than my PDVD8 version right before I switched it to TMT.

I fully agree. I dumped way too much money on PDVD7 and the upgrade to 8 only to find that about 80% of my Blu-Ray discs would play. With TMT I have had a 100% success rate and spent a whopping zero dollars, plus the cost of the HDAV of course.
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post #3110 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FrothyDog View Post

I fully agree. I dumped way too much money on PDVD7 and the upgrade to 8 only to find that about 80% of my Blu-Ray discs would play. With TMT I have had a 100% success rate and spent a whopping zero dollars, plus the cost of the HDAV of course.

Same here and no offense to PDVD company and users, without PDVD 7 and 8 experiences, I won't be so happy to OEM version TMT today

There is nothing what I call a show stopper for PDVD 7 and 8, but TMT UI and playback is definitely a bit smoother, faster and easy to play around than my PDVD 7 and 8 I have been experiencing.
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post #3111 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrothyDog View Post

I fully agree. I dumped way too much money on PDVD7 and the upgrade to 8 only to find that about 80% of my Blu-Ray discs would play. With TMT I have had a 100% success rate and spent a whopping zero dollars, plus the cost of the HDAV of course.

It's the opposite for me...
Do you have music & lyrics? try it and let me know if it plays with the .125 TMT bundled with the xonar...
I have a few others that won't play in TMT, but played well in PDVD 8.
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post #3112 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 02:13 PM
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I have the best of luck with TMT, therefore I bought Xonar.

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post #3113 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balky View Post

It's the opposite for me...
Do you have music & lyrics? try it and let me know if it plays with the .125 TMT bundled with the xonar...
I have a few others that won't play in TMT, but played well in PDVD 8.

I assume you are referring to BD. I don't have that in BD just DVD.

Also, I have no TMT before and if I were you, maybe it is time to do a clean install and see.
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post #3114 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rew452 View Post

2 more things to put icing on the cake;

1. Separate speaker equalizer settings
2. Test tone such as Pink noise and say a single tone such as 1Khz for calibration.

+1
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post #3115 of 9571 Old 12-17-2008, 02:57 PM
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I too have increased center to 100, but left all else at 76, which is default for me. Onkyo 605

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post #3116 of 9571 Old 12-18-2008, 03:27 AM
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When we are looks at Cd one puts 44.1Hz

When we are looks at a dvd one puts 48Hz

But when we are looks at Br one puts 96Hz or 192Hz?

Is what switch automatically according to the support or is necessary to change manually?

THX
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post #3117 of 9571 Old 12-18-2008, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbil69 View Post

When we are looks at Cd one puts 44.1Hz

When we are looks at a dvd one puts 48Hz

But when we are looks at Br one puts 96Hz or 192Hz?

Is what switch automatically according to the support or is necessary to change manually?

THX

Everything, yes, except for BR which I'm not even sure? I thought they where 48Khz?
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post #3118 of 9571 Old 12-18-2008, 08:37 AM
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Is what switch automatically according to the support or is necessary to change manually?
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post #3119 of 9571 Old 12-18-2008, 08:44 AM
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I'm still thinking of getting the xonar, over my 4870 PCM sound, which is less than perfect compared to the BD on a player...

A few questions..

Can the TMT OEM version work integrated mode with My Movies? (this sucks as i just bought the retail version too)..

Does Bitstream (x64 vista) with this card, sound just like the original bitstreamed track in say a real BD player?

Which sounds the closest to the original track on a real bd player.. Bitstream or PCM from this card (and if PCM, i'm assuming the PCM from this card is better sounding than say the PCM from my 4870 ati)?

Does passing the video through the card distort the video in any way?

Finally, will i be able to do coax audio out from this card (but not at same time as HDMI out), but both plugged in.

**Does anyone have this card in a rampage II extreme.. particularly the top slot (somehow).. this is my only option for putting it on this board..

(I'll be pairing this with my onkyo 606 receiver)

Thanks in advance


EDIT: Looked at the reviews here at new egg.. some said under vista they couldnt even get bitstreaming to work.. this isnt true is it? (x64) : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829132009

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post #3120 of 9571 Old 12-18-2008, 10:45 AM
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Hello all,

New to the Xonar stuff and I have a few questions. I am considering upgrading to this card for two main reasons. To play my backed up DVD collection and to play flawless audiophile grade sound on my Magnepans.

Does this card work well for a 2.1 stereo setup while also being able to play 5.1. I do not yet have a receiver with HDMI, so I will be relying on LR RCA for now.
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