*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 160 - AVS Forum
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post #4771 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ausvette View Post

Are you running an ATI card ? If you have a look at the ATI & TMT posts you'll notice people talking about this issue. There did seem a little discussion that the later 8.12 & 9.1 drivers may solve this. I tried 8.12, as you say didn't skip, but wasn't smooth either. Haven't tried 9.1 yet.

Once the HDAV1.3 card passes the 24 Hz certainly the next issue is that TMT doesn't work with ATI cards at 24 Hz anyway ...

I'm suprised people haven't mentioned this before.

Actually you've said earlier you're running an nvidia. As far as I'm aware nvidia shouldn't have this problem. Can any nvidia users comment ?

I am running 9800GTX Nvidia, my JVC HD1 projector shows 47.96hz when Nvidia is set to 23hz and TMT shows 23.98hz.

they match up but something is out in the timing with the hz.
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post #4772 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hceuterpe View Post

I just said there's no reason for a "slim" card! In fact I doubt ASUS will bother releasing the slim version. Just get a version made in 2009 and it will do everything you want it.

Let's see. Did Asus suddenly reduce the price of the standard card, remove the extraneous analog circuitry, eliminate the useless 'Splendid' engine and reduce the height of the card?

If not then there certainly is a very good reason for a slim card which is no doubt why they appear to be planning to release it after the dust settles with the current card.

Just because you don't see any value does not mean others do not.

"But it's just a flesh wound!"
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post #4773 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 06:15 PM
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Ok I have the Xonar HDAV and using XP Pro pretty happy with it so far but I am looking for a front end to use that will work with TMT/Xonar/XP anyone have a recommendation ?
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post #4774 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 07:20 PM
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What do you mean by "front end"??

Lilo loves my HTPC ... ^_^
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post #4775 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j2037 View Post

I am running 9800GTX Nvidia, my JVC HD1 projector shows 47.96hz when Nvidia is set to 23hz and TMT shows 23.98hz.

they match up but something is out in the timing with the hz.

Ok something strange is going on if your projector is showing its receiving 47.96 Hz. Have you tried running bypassing the Onkyo to see if that gives you 23.98 straight through to the projector ? Just for a test, I realise you wont get any audio, but would rule out the onkyo isn't doing something weird. I guess also check in the projector section what the HD1 shows when fed a 23.98Hz signal.
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post #4776 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lilohtpc View Post

What do you mean by "front end"??

I think he means a media centre application. MCE, Media Portal, Meedio, SageTV, Myth etc etc
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post #4777 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

I'm not sure quite what you mean by auto selecting the audio info. We just bitstream the entire data blob over to your reciever and it makes all the decisions. The request would make more sense to me in a non-bitstreaming situation (but even there I'd be interested in hearing a more informed opinion as to where the value there is.)

But in general ASUS is the driver of any feature relating to the bitstreaming feature of the ASUS TMT release and a concerted effort with them is what it takes to push through something for that release.

Something more general unrelated to bitstreaming at all (and not affecting bitstreamed data) would be a potential feature ArcSoft would consider independently.

I am not sure if Arcsoft or ASUS actually controls what I am talking about. If I play a 7.1 Channel PCM Blu-ray in TMT then it will output however many channels of PCM that I have selected in the ASUS control panel and at the Khz that I selected in that application regardless of the fact that I selected the HDMI option in TMT.

In the days of SPDIF you could select an option for bit perfect output. That would automatically select the appropiate Khz for the PCM output. Is it possible for TMT to determine the Khz and number of channels for a PCM Blu-ray and then set the ASUS card to automatically output those settings?

It is really annoying to try to figure out what Khz the Blu-ray was recorded at and then change the ASUS control panel to those settings.
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post #4778 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 08:43 PM
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Yes that is what I mean, Media Center ect ? any recomendations ?
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post #4779 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 09:16 PM
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Good news and bad news:

Good news-- the ASUS HDAV card I just ordered and received from Newegg is a 9- serial number card, with the 24p fix (supposedly).

Very bad news-- the installation of the Xonar HDAV software fails. When I turn on the computer after seating the card, Windows XP SP3 immediately begins installing "PCI to PCI bridge" drivers, etc. as it recognizes the new hardware. It does NOT give me the choice to cancel looking for drivers-- it just installs them immediately. Perhaps as a result, launching the latest software and driver installation package (downloaded from the ASUS website) fails; it begins normally, launches the teal green installer program, installs a variety of files, then abruptly quits to the desktop and gives me a "Installation failed; please remove the HDAV card and restart your computer" message.

I've tried everything I can think of to fix the problem:
- three different PCI-E slots
- boot in safe mode (in safe mode the software won't recognize that the HDAV hardware is installed and returns an error at the start of a software installation attempt)
- deep uninstall (using Revo Uninstaller) of the Xonar software, followed by reinstallation of the latest downloaded software, OR of the software than came on my HDAV's DVD
- disabled Plug and Play service from windows after uinstallation to try to prevent autoinstall of drivers

None of the above helped.

I have tripled checked that the 4-pin molex power connector is properly seated. I get the blue LED light inside the card and even used a voltmeter to verify the -7,0,0,+5 V coming to the 4-pin molex.

I'm really at my wit's end and could you your help. Any suggestions? Searching this thread led to several posts describing the same problem, but I didn't see any reported or proposed solutions and most of the posts reporting the same problem are much older (and thus probably are using different drivers).

Thanks in advance!

-David
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post #4780 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 09:36 PM
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David, don't mean to state the obvious but have you tried to boot in safe mode and install that way, it should work.
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post #4781 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ausvette View Post

Ok something strange is going on if your projector is showing its receiving 47.96 Hz. Have you tried running bypassing the Onkyo to see if that gives you 23.98 straight through to the projector ? Just for a test, I realise you wont get any audio, but would rule out the onkyo isn't doing something weird. I guess also check in the projector section what the HD1 shows when fed a 23.98Hz signal.

thanks ausvette, the JVC HD1 is fine, it displays in doubles if fed a signal 30hz or below. so 30hz will show as 60hz, 24hz as 48hz and so on.

60hz will show as 60hz but actually output is 120hz, 24hz shows 48hz but actually output is 96hz, it gets technical i guess, something like it ups the hz after the processing before it reaches the lamp or something technical like that, reduces blur or judder in panning etc, but the PJ is fine. i think it is designed like that beause 24hz isn't very good for fast action motion, can't keep up. the extra hz refreshes faster to reduce framing.

i am thinking more of driver/software issue, either Nvidia or TMT.

Both Nvidia and TMT really need to output 23.976hz to be correctly set, this i think may be the problem. I don't think Nvidia and TMT are syncing up properly, i read in other forums were people tested nvidia at 24hz and it was not actually that but a bit off and was not able to set at 23.976 either.
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post #4782 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 10:13 PM
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j2037,

Thanks for your suggestion.

Yes, I tried safe mode-- in safe mode (with or without networking), the computer won't acknowledge that the HDAV is installed and therefore returns a "plug in the HDAV" error over and over at the start of an attempt to install the software.

Any other ideas? I'm going bald from all the hair I'm yanking out

Thanks,
David
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post #4783 of 9551 Old 02-19-2009, 11:38 PM
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David, install Vista. Join the new generation and feel the superior OS, you will never go back.
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post #4784 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 12:03 AM
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David: I wouldn't install Vista. Many feel the cure is worse than the disease. If you really want to leave XP, wait a few months for Windows 7.

Have you tried using a "Restore Point" to take your computer back in time a few days, to a time before XP ran amok and jammed in its suspect drivers.
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post #4785 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drliu View Post

j2037,

Thanks for your suggestion.

Yes, I tried safe mode-- in safe mode (with or without networking), the computer won't acknowledge that the HDAV is installed and therefore returns a "plug in the HDAV" error over and over at the start of an attempt to install the software.

Any other ideas? I'm going bald from all the hair I'm yanking out

Thanks,
David

Reinstallation of windows will most likely fix your issue.
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post #4786 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drliu View Post

j2037,

Thanks for your suggestion.

Yes, I tried safe mode-- in safe mode (with or without networking), the computer won't acknowledge that the HDAV is installed and therefore returns a "plug in the HDAV" error over and over at the start of an attempt to install the software.

Any other ideas? I'm going bald from all the hair I'm yanking out

Thanks,
David

dont' know if it will work, probably not but hey couldn't hurt to try, can you install the driver without the card plugged in to the motherboard.
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post #4787 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy99 View Post

Yes that is what I mean, Media Center ect ? any recomendations ?

Not from me I'm afraid. I have only used Media portal and I'm still trying to set that up :-)
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post #4788 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 01:36 AM
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i've been reading forums and people saying with the new ati drivers there getting 23.976hz, seriously considering moving to the ati camp.

the tmt issues seem to be fixed also.
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post #4789 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by el_kano View Post

Not from me I'm afraid. I have only used Media portal and I'm still trying to set that up :-)

I have been looking at Media Portal also it looks like what I would like but was not sure if it would work with Xonar/TMT ect have you had any success getting to work ?
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post #4790 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I know what you mean. Operating Systems existed on PCs before Windows, so it is very silly to assume Windows is the standard solution for PCs. No one in their right mind would assume that most PC users are running Windows.

Considering that the vast majority of prebuilt PCs come with Windows installed, it's actually silly to believe otherwise. The fact is, most PC users run some version of Windows on their machines. There's only a small niche market of users that use Linux or some other OS on an x86-based PC. Not everyone is a geek or software programmer. Take into account the vast number of PCs used by just about every company in existence and realize that almost all of them come with Windows preconfigured on them. Companies need to adhere to a market standard when it comes to universal applications and most of them will migrate to Windows by default. Companies will also use Macs and Unix-based PCs for special appliocations but the vast majority of company users will be using a Windows OS most, if not all, of the time.

Joe Average that walks off the street into a Best Buy or other retailer is more likely to buy a Windows PC than anything else, especially once he learns that upgradeability with other OSes can be extremely difficult and expensive, if not near impossible in some cases. It's also going to be a platform that he will be most familiar with. There's a wider selection of software for Windows PCs than any other platform, at least in the consumer market. OSes like Linux are still considered on the fringe for the majority of PC owners. Most people simply don't have the time or incentive to learn how to use an OS that they may never need to use in their everyday line of work. Almost everyone that has a job these days needs to know how to use a Windows OS so it stands to reason that most of these people will also own a Windows PC at home.

Sorry to hijack the main topic (what was it again?), but such a ludicrous comment begged for a reply. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
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post #4791 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j2037 View Post

i've been reading forums and people saying with the new ati drivers there getting 23.976hz, seriously considering moving to the ati camp.

the tmt issues seem to be fixed also.

Maybe we should swap. I spent a couple of years with nvidia and got sick of their crap drivers. Now I've spent a couple of years with ati and am definitely sick of their crap drivers. Was thinking of trying nvidia again so I'd have different issues to look at !
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post #4792 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by j2037 View Post

David, install Vista. Join the new generation and feel the superior OS, you will never go back.

That's like telling him to cut off his arm because he has a splinter in his pinky. I tried Vista Ultimate 64 and it wouldn't let me install all of the same apps I had been running happily under XP Pro (PowerDVD 7.3, for instance). I tried everything I could but it still refused to load. I wiped the drive, reinstalled XP Pro from scratch and let it update to the latest version, and now everything is running the way it's supposed to. I gave Vista a shot and it turned out to be every bit as buggy as everyone said. I've currently got Vista on a prebuilt HP PC I bought for my wife (she hates it) and also a laptop I bought for my son (he also hates it). My advice, don't drink the Kool-Aid.
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post #4793 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ausvette View Post

Maybe we should swap. I spent a couple of years with nvidia and got sick of their crap drivers. Now I've spent a couple of years with ati and am definitely sick of their crap drivers. Was thinking of trying nvidia again so I'd have different issues to look at !

I also just swapped from a nVidia card to an ATi 4650. I can now see my entire desktop on my 60" Sony HDTV for the very first time. The overscan with the nVidia cards was driving me nuts. I wanted to try the ATi card and see how it compared, plus I was able to get one with an HDMI output in anticipation of eventually getting the Xonar HDAV1.3.

I rebuilt my HTPC last weekend with a new motherboard, AMD Black Edition AM2 CPU, and the ATi 4650 graphics card. When I ran Cyberlink's BD Advisor it told me my graphics driver wouldn't support BD playback. I thought I was using the latest driver from the Gigabyte website so I got the latest driver directly from ATi and now everything is hunky dory. I had tried an older version of an ATi HD card but it caused issues with BeyondTV so I pulled it and reinstalled my nVidia 8600GT. So far the 4650 has performed extremely well. I can't wait to get it paired up with the HDAV1.3 as soon as I can find a vendor that has them in the 24p version.
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post #4794 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 05:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drliu View Post

j2037,

Thanks for your suggestion.

Yes, I tried safe mode-- in safe mode (with or without networking), the computer won't acknowledge that the HDAV is installed and therefore returns a "plug in the HDAV" error over and over at the start of an attempt to install the software.

Any other ideas? I'm going bald from all the hair I'm yanking out

Thanks,
David

Try going into the Device Manager and telling it to update the drivers from the CD (or the download folder if you use a newer version of the drivers).
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post #4795 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 05:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

Considering that the vast majority of prebuilt PCs come with Windows installed, it's actually silly to believe otherwise. The fact is, most PC users run some version of Windows on their machines. There's only a small niche market of users that use Linux or some other OS on an x86-based PC. Not everyone is a geek or software programmer. Take into account the vast number of PCs used by just about every company in existence and realize that almost all of them come with Windows preconfigured on them. Companies need to adhere to a market standard when it comes to universal applications and most of them will migrate to Windows by default. Companies will also use Macs and Unix-based PCs for special appliocations but the vast majority of company users will be using a Windows OS most, if not all, of the time.

Joe Average that walks off the street into a Best Buy or other retailer is more likely to buy a Windows PC than anything else, especially once he learns that upgradeability with other OSes can be extremely difficult and expensive, if not near impossible in some cases. It's also going to be a platform that he will be most familiar with. There's a wider selection of software for Windows PCs than any other platform, at least in the consumer market. OSes like Linux are still considered on the fringe for the majority of PC owners. Most people simply don't have the time or incentive to learn how to use an OS that they may never need to use in their everyday line of work. Almost everyone that has a job these days needs to know how to use a Windows OS so it stands to reason that most of these people will also own a Windows PC at home.

Sorry to hijack the main topic (what was it again?), but such a ludicrous comment begged for a reply. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

I know, I was making the point that VMC is also the most used front end out there as well. Saying otherwise is just as silly as me saying Windows is not the most used OS.

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post #4796 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by speedy99 View Post

I have been looking at Media Portal also it looks like what I would like but was not sure if it would work with Xonar/TMT ect have you had any success getting to work ?

I don't have this card yet, but I do use Media Portal and the TMT plug-in. It works really well together. Almost seamless, but not completely.

I have tried many front ends and keep coming back to MP.

Mark
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post #4797 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by j2037 View Post

David, install Vista. Join the new generation and feel the superior OS, you will never go back.

I have to agree with this. I have converted most of my PCs in the house to Vista - most of them Vista 64 but my HTPC is Vista 32 to ensure maximum compatibility. As I will point out below most of the anti-hype about Vista is simple nonsense. It works very well now and is the current OS. If you can get your system to work without reinstalling any OS then great, stick with what you have. On the other hand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by myAV View Post

Reinstallation of windows will most likely fix your issue.

If you end up resorting to this then by all means grab a copy of Vista 32 and give it a go. The idea is that if you are going to do this much work you might as well make it worth your while.

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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

That's like telling him to cut off his arm because he has a splinter in his pinky. I tried Vista Ultimate 64 and it wouldn't let me install all of the same apps I had been running happily under XP Pro (PowerDVD 7.3, for instance). I tried everything I could but it still refused to load. I wiped the drive, reinstalled XP Pro from scratch and let it update to the latest version, and now everything is running the way it's supposed to. I gave Vista a shot and it turned out to be every bit as buggy as everyone said. I've currently got Vista on a prebuilt HP PC I bought for my wife (she hates it) and also a laptop I bought for my son (he also hates it). My advice, don't drink the Kool-Aid.

Perhaps you should have tried Vista 32 instead of Vista 64? To make the statements you make above with the obvious implication that your experience applies to Vista 32 is a disservice to all. It is true that there are some compatibility issues with V64 - not many, but there are some. That being said, V32 is the OS that vendors write drivers for first now for the most part and it is the mainstream OS from a support perspective.

Given that you did not say when you did all this it is also possible that you jumped in too soon. I waited until the end of last year to give the ecosystem time to stabilize and I have had no issues whatsoever on... let's see... 4 systems so far. My HTPC is working quite well, my main desktop is fantastic - gotta love the 6 GB I can run under V64 as I use memory heavily.

The point here is that Vista hating is much more of an emotional than a rational experience. In fact, most of the hating has to do with change, not anything actually wrong with Vista itself. As such, imposing your personal opinion on others is not very useful.

I would say that if the OP of this part of the thread can get it working without reinstalling the OS they will be fine and should do that. Failing that they need to seriously consider purchasing Vista Home Premium and installing it as a 32 bit OS. While it is very likely that MS will release Win 7 this year sometime and it is shaping up to be one of the best if not the best OS MS has ever shipped we still do not know if it will truly be as good as it seems nor do we really know when it will ship. Then there is the old 'wait for SP1' adage which has many dimensions to it; truth is the adage has merit in many ways. That puts Win 7 out more than a year or so before it can truly be said to be 'certified'. As such there is no real downside to migrating to Vista now even if Win 7 is as good as it looks like it will be.

"But it's just a flesh wound!"
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post #4798 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

That's like telling him to cut off his arm because he has a splinter in his pinky. I tried Vista Ultimate 64 and it wouldn't let me install all of the same apps I had been running happily under XP Pro (PowerDVD 7.3, for instance). I tried everything I could but it still refused to load. I wiped the drive, reinstalled XP Pro from scratch and let it update to the latest version, and now everything is running the way it's supposed to. I gave Vista a shot and it turned out to be every bit as buggy as everyone said. I've currently got Vista on a prebuilt HP PC I bought for my wife (she hates it) and also a laptop I bought for my son (he also hates it). My advice, don't drink the Kool-Aid.

Funny, I have Vista Ultimate 64 and have no problems at all. I guess I must have drank the cool-aid.
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post #4799 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe Tag View Post

David: I wouldn't install Vista. Many feel the cure is worse than the disease. If you really want to leave XP, wait a few months for Windows 7.

Have you tried using a "Restore Point" to take your computer back in time a few days, to a time before XP ran amok and jammed in its suspect drivers.

I personally thought about this dilemma like many of us, especially with Windows 7 right around the corner...Which OS? I decided to go with Vista even with with W7 around the corner because of the upgrade path that Microsoft has decided it will take. When Windows 7 does come out, the upgrade will be less painful but the upgrade from XP to W7 means a complete clean install...which means wiping out your boot drive completely. I personally don't have the time to do that. IF the upgrade proves to be troublesome, at least I still have the option of doing a clean install whereas the other route, you don't have that choice. To each their own.

Eric

Eric

My Stuff: Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 w/  Ideal-Lume Bias Lighting, Yamaha RX-V3800, Oppo BDP-103D

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post #4800 of 9551 Old 02-20-2009, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by xgecko View Post

I have to agree with this. I have converted most of my PCs in the house to Vista - most of them Vista 64 but my HTPC is Vista 32 to ensure maximum compatibility. As I will point out below most of the anti-hype about Vista is simple nonsense. It works very well now and is the current OS. If you can get your system to work without reinstalling any OS then great, stick with what you have. On the other hand...



If you end up resorting to this then by all means grab a copy of Vista 32 and give it a go. The idea is that if you are going to do this much work you might as well make it worth your while.



Perhaps you should have tried Vista 32 instead of Vista 64? To make the statements you make above with the obvious implication that your experience applies to Vista 32 is a disservice to all. It is true that there are some compatibility issues with V64 - not many, but there are some. That being said, V32 is the OS that vendors write drivers for first now for the most part and it is the mainstream OS from a support perspective.

Given that you did not say when you did all this it is also possible that you jumped in too soon. I waited until the end of last year to give the ecosystem time to stabilize and I have had no issues whatsoever on... let's see... 4 systems so far. My HTPC is working quite well, my main desktop is fantastic - gotta love the 6 GB I can run under V64 as I use memory heavily.

The point here is that Vista hating is much more of an emotional than a rational experience. In fact, most of the hating has to do with change, not anything actually wrong with Vista itself. As such, imposing your personal opinion on others is not very useful.

I would say that if the OP of this part of the thread can get it working without reinstalling the OS they will be fine and should do that. Failing that they need to seriously consider purchasing Vista Home Premium and installing it as a 32 bit OS. While it is very likely that MS will release Win 7 this year sometime and it is shaping up to be one of the best if not the best OS MS has ever shipped we still do not know if it will truly be as good as it seems nor do we really know when it will ship. Then there is the old 'wait for SP1' adage which has many dimensions to it; truth is the adage has merit in many ways. That puts Win 7 out more than a year or so before it can truly be said to be 'certified'. As such there is no real downside to migrating to Vista now even if Win 7 is as good as it looks like it will be.

I have Vista 32 installed on two other machines in my household. Nobody in my family is thrilled with it. Vista has had more bugs than any preceding version of Windows and I'm not too crazy about continually beta testing software that is supposed to be mature. The fact that I had problems installing legacy software that is supposed to work under Vista just sealed the deal for me. If PowerDVD had installed without a hitch then I'd probably still be using Vista. As it is, I simply didn't have the time to troubleshoot a buggy OS and try to figure out how to get something working that is supposed to work without all of the fuss. I was dealing with a narrow window of opportunity to get my HTPC back up and running so when Vista gave me a hard time I was forced to revert to an OS that is tried and true and stable. I see no reason to use Vista at this point in time since Windows 7 is right around the corner. It sounds like it's the OS Microsoft should have waited to introduce instead of shoving Vista down our throats.

I don't hate Vista, but then I don't particularly like it either. I expect a Windows OS to at least be user friendly to users of previous versions of Windows and not requrie a massive learning curve just to perform the basic functions I need from a PC. I have to continually search around on my wife's PC to find a simple function that's no longer where I'm used to finding it. No doubt that's another fine feature that Microsoft included at a premium price. I was actually looking forward to giving Vista a shot. I don't think it's unreasonable to install an OS and have it work with the software I currently own, especially when the OS is supposed to work with legacy software. I'm hoping to eventually install an Asus HDAV1.3 sound card in my HTPC but, guess what? It really only works properly under XP and not Vista according to what I've read. Don't you think it's ironic that they only wrote stable drivers for it to work under XP and not Vista?

FYI - I installed it last weekend so I was using the latest and greatest with SP1. I made sure I downloaded all of the latest updates and drivers for my system before installing any other software.

I'm happy for all those that have successfully installed Vista and are satisfied with it. If you have the time to get it up and running, then by all means, give it a try, especially if you have access to a copy for evaluation purposes. OTOH, I would never consider shelling out big bucks for a new Windows OS that has been proven to be as buggy as Vista has. My advice is to wait for Windows 7 and hope they finally got it right.
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