*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 214 - AVS Forum
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post #6391 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalupacabra View Post

I've been very much on the fence for awhile now about this card and, as I'm looking for something to tweak around with over Golden Week, am considering picking one up soon, but I want to make sure I have a couple of things right as opinion seems to be mostly split.

I know that there are no questions here that haven't been answered already, but the answers have been contradictory, so I'm hoping to get a solid yes or no about what I'm looking for. First off:

Things I understand (or as I understand them) about the HDAV 1.3:
-This does not function like a SA BR player, and should not be expected to.
-It's a tweaker's card, and likely always will be. There is tinkering involved.
-There are compromises between TMT versions. TMT3 is easier, OEM allows for precise tweaking.
-TMT 3 will downrez decoded audio to 48/16 for LPCM HDMI output
-The architecture of the hardware is quirky, but pretty damn impressive.

Things I am still uncertain about regarding the HDAV 1.3 (due to disagreements and disputes in this thread):
-In the Deluxe model, can full rez audio be sent via the analog outs?
-Can the ASUS OEM TMT decode TrueHD/DTS-HDMA to LPCM (over HDMI) with no downsampling (set manually)?
-When setting to "speakers" does this mean everything is decoded, or are legacy formats (original DD and DTS) passed along?
-When set to 5.1/7.1 speakers or "speakers" rather than "digital", what happens to native LPCM tracks on the BR disc?

As my pre/pro (Denon A7100) does not decode DTS HD-MA and DD TrueHD, I'm looking for an option to do the decoding on the HTPC side and stream out LPCM to my pre so it can do the D/A converting. I honestly wouldn't care if it decoded everything to LPCM, as long as it was consistent and pleasant to hear.

Stand alone player options in Japan suck, and while I like the PS3, I have to be honest and say I've come to enjoy keeping the physical media on the shelf and just flipping through my movies on the HDD and am willing to accept a bit of compromise to that end.

Unfortunately, certain BR discs are just not cooperating with my current config (Iron Man, for example) and all I'm getting is stereo. This is regardless of whether I use the SPDIF output of my Onkyo SE200PCI or the HDMI audio out on my HD 4850. Even the 5.1/7.1 option in TMT 3 only yields stereo feed to the A7100.

If the HDAV can get me the HD Codecs decompressed to full rez LPCM on HDMI (with all channels present and accounted for), then a little tinkering is worth it to me. Hell, even getting everything via analogue would be a step up from stereo-only LPCM. I've seen so much contradictory information on this topic though. One person will say it works, then in come "no it doesn't" flames...lather, rinse, repeat. There are a lot of people who seem to have really worked this thing over through and through (Davinleeds especially) and know exactly what it can do, so I'm hoping I can get a definitive answer from someone who understands what this card can and can't do.

So, to cut to the chase, taking into consideration that there will be manual tweaking regarding the frequency and bit format, can this thing be set so that I get proper LPCM over HDMI via the non-integrated ASUS TMT and at least the proper channels via TMT 3 (bitstripped if the disc is over 48/16) regardless of whether the BR track is TrueHD, HDMA, or LPCM? If I can get that, it's completely worth it.

Just to make it simple, you'll only get full audio resolution with bistreaming or analog. And this is what this card is good for, and it's really worth the $$$ it costs IMO. With the exception of HD-DVDs, and analog of course, when only bitstreaming it is as simple as it gets to setup, and it just works.

In any other scenario and/or requirements any other LPCM 48/16 out there is a better choice.

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post #6392 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

Situation 1: Analogue Out. As you describe, this just works.


Situation 2: HDMI Audio only (after an audio upgrade): Eek I already use both VGA outputs. One drives the projector, one drives a monitor. Does this mean the HDMI output would be disabled? Can't it just do audio with no video?




HDMI is a nightmare. I'm not using it for video (messes your levels), and looks like I'm not using it for audio...ever.

Seems I'd be paying a premium for a card with HDMI...that I couldn't use even if I upgraded the audio side of my system.

I just want a Xonar DX with Deluxe upgrades

That's why I like my setup of three displays, 8200 MSI MB with hdmi and an 8600gts. One to AVR, one to display, and one to desktop. This way I can also do my work, while a movie plays for some one else. It's does double duty when I need to.

I thinking of building another soon.

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post #6393 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 10:11 AM
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Does the Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe obviate my need for a receiver that does Dolby-HD/DTS HD? Is the HD Audio decode done at the Xonar?

Can I go straight out from the analog outs to a 5 or 7 channel amp setup?

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #6394 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

Does the Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe obviate my need for a receiver that does Dolby-HD/DTS HD? Is the HD Audio decode done at the Xonar?

Can I go straight out from the analog outs to a 5 or 7 channel amp setup?

It seems that the answer is yes. The Xonar will decode and send it on out to the amps. Woo Hoo!

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #6395 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Excellent news. That is actually what I wanted to hear.

And even then it's just a matter of changing the audio setting in TMT to SPDIF which can be done easily with the remote in the VMC integrated version. Sadly you'll have to buy TMT3 for that right now.

I use the HDAV in the exact same way that you want to and I never touch the control panel.
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post #6396 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

Situation 1: Analogue Out. As you describe, this just works.


Situation 2: HDMI Audio only (after an audio upgrade): Eek I already use both VGA outputs. One drives the projector, one drives a monitor. Does this mean the HDMI output would be disabled? Can't it just do audio with no video?




HDMI is a nightmare. I'm not using it for video (messes your levels), and looks like I'm not using it for audio...ever.

Seems I'd be paying a premium for a card with HDMI...that I couldn't use even if I upgraded the audio side of my system.

I just want a Xonar DX with Deluxe upgrades

See this statement by zixnus, last sentence - what you want.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post16316460

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post #6397 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 02:57 PM
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I don't know if it's new, but this from Warner to trade your HDDVD for BD and you get to keep your HDDVD disk. I think I will participate for those that TMT 3 won't play correctly.
@slysoft:
http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread....719#post192719

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post #6398 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davinleeds View Post

See this statement by zixnus, last sentence - what you want.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post16316460

Not really. For my current situation (analogue video and audio out), the card will work fine.

However, for futureproofing, I'd like the HDMI to work without plugging video into it. This won't work.

However, however...thinking this through. If I replace my CRT monitor (but not the CRT projector) with a LCD monitor with HDMI ($200 or so), then I could make the Xonar output work.

There is a work around.

What I'd really like is a Xonar DX "Deluxe" with the quality analogue outs with RCA jacks, but no HDMI.

Thanks Davin

Mark

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post #6399 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 03:16 PM
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The hdmi input, even though it doesn't need actual video, unlocks the hdcp/pavp requirements for the HD audio codecs for hdmi. However, from his statement I get he didn't need to connect hdmi to get audio out the analog.

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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post #6400 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davinleeds View Post

The hdmi input, even though it doesn't need actual video, unlocks the hdcp/pavp requirements for the HD audio codecs for hdmi. However, from his statement I get he didn't need to connect hdmi to get audio out the analog.


I understand that.

I'm trying to tell you I have 2 potential use cases:

1. Analogue only. No problem. This is what I would do now. (The HDMI part of the card is therefor useless...and expensive.)

2. If I'm going to spend lots for a card with HDMI, I'd like to be able to use HDMI one day. Therefore I'd like the HDMI to "just work" for audio.
Not PAP bitstreaming of True-HD/DTS-MA, just work for 24bit 192khz 8 channel audio, without video connected.

Anydvd is your friend, there is no need for bitstreaming and being tied to the commercial players.

It looks like, if I had this card and bought a HDMI capable surround processor, I'd have to add a HDMI equipped monitor, just to loop through, while I watched the actual movie using my CRT projector connected to the other DVI-I (VGA) connector.

It's messy.

This whole DRM/HDCP/PAP debacle is infuriating. Particularly when the whole house of cards is completely cracked anyway. Why do they force these stupid hardware restrictions down our throats when the discs are now completely unprotected??

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post #6401 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 04:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davinleeds View Post

I don't know if it's new, but this from Warner to trade your HDDVD for BD and you get to keep your HDDVD disk. I think I will participate for those that TMT 3 won't play correctly.
@slysoft:
http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread....719#post192719

Most Excellent find!

The only HD-DVDs I have left are the Complete Plant Earth Series. Too expensive to replace at full price, but this makes it MUCH cheaper.

I am now no longer worried about whether HD-DVDs work properly or not in the future.
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post #6402 of 9551 Old 04-22-2009, 10:09 PM
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I only have Left, Center, Right speaker. I only use analogy out. If I choose 5.1 speaker setup and disabled rear speakers in windows, will the sound content of the rear channels be redirected to my front speaker channels? or they will simply be dropped?

Does anybody know?
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post #6403 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 05:54 AM
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I had some trouble with my CPU load, which resulted,especially when using Xonar HDAV digital out and MPC/Reclock/Pass through, in stuttering and sync problems.
It wasn't my first thought, but I flashed my mobo bios to the latest version, updated all my mobo stuff and that made a whole lot of difference. My CPU load is now (average) 20% lower and no stuttering anymore.
Still will install (next week) a new CPU and additional 2 gig memory though
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post #6404 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 08:48 AM
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My Setup:

Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H Motherboard
E6600
XFX Geforce 9400 GT 1Gb, up to date drivers
HDAV Deluxe, up to date drivers
Windows Vista Home Premium 32 bit (Freshly Loaded)
TMT 3
Harman Kardon 354 Receiver
Sharp Aquas LCD

A little history:
When I 1st installed the HDAV on the above existing system using the Full HDMI path, I had a very bad screen flicker about every 5 seconds when simply in Windows. No Flicker when connected directly to the Video Card. I changed the original HDMI cable going from the HDAV to my receiver to the one that came with the card and the Flicker practically went away. Then, without making any additional changes to the HDMI cables, if I change the HDAV to Analog out, it completely goes away.

When playing a movie in TMT3 with whichever High resolution Audio tracks and HDMI pass through, I get video and sound break ups every 5-10 seconds with screen flickers. If I change to a lower resolution Audio Track using HDMI pass through, the problem considerably lessons. If I change to analog, it is non existent. I have a dual boot system where XP and TMT2 are loaded and the results are the same.

I plan to buy another short 1.3a HDMI cable and give that a try. If this works, I'm a little surprised the cable that came with the card isn't good enough. Any suggestions on a brand that is easily obtainable at a national chain store?

Any other suggestions?
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post #6405 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

Does the Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe obviate my need for a receiver that does Dolby-HD/DTS HD? Is the HD Audio decode done at the Xonar?

Can I go straight out from the analog outs to a 5 or 7 channel amp setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

It seems that the answer is yes. The Xonar will decode and send it on out to the amps. Woo Hoo!

The Xonar doesn't do the decoding, that is done by your player/filters. This is important to know because different players/filters might behave differently. Right now both PowerDVD 8/9 and TMT3 have some bugs with this, especially in 7.1 systems. That's the reason why me and a couple other people bought the HDAV, to not let the players do the decoding. Unfortunately the card didn't work for me in other areas, but the others seem to be fine with it.
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post #6406 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

This whole DRM/HDCP/PAP debacle is infuriating. Particularly when the whole house of cards is completely cracked anyway. Why do they force these stupid hardware restrictions down our throats when the discs are now completely unprotected??

Legitimate piracy concerns (anyone dispute it's happening at a frightening rate?) regardless of the defense's effectiveness and more importantly raw fear.

Personally, I think they overplayed their hand and were naive about how effective it could be in the long haul against pirates and how quickly tech companies could meet the spec. But I do think a level of security that prevents casual copy/exchange was probably a necessary evil--something to the level of DVD perhaps.

(Cheers to the music industry for accepting they can't stem the tide and selling MP3s! I refused to purchase DRM protected music for years on principle and finally bought a bunch of stuff from Amazon last year. I feel the same way about Blu-ray today. I try to vote with my $.)
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post #6407 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

Legitimate piracy concerns (anyone dispute it's happening at a frightening rate?) regardless of the defense's effectiveness and more importantly raw fear.

Personally, I think they overplayed their hand and were naive about how effective it could be in the long haul against pirates and how quickly tech companies could meet the spec. But I do think a level of security that prevents casual copy/exchange was probably a necessary evil--something to the level of DVD perhaps.

(Cheers to the music industry for accepting they can't stem the tide and selling MP3s! I refused to purchase DRM protected music for years on principle and finally bought a bunch of stuff from Amazon last year. I feel the same way about Blu-ray today. I try to vote with my $.)

[rant]
While I do not want to derail this thread, I have to say that ineffective DRM measures only infuriate legitimate users and have shown no evidence of affecting piracy in any way and it would be nice if the content providers would just give it up. I have bought every single CD I have on my server and they are not copy protected in any way, manner, shape or form. I have yet to buy a single BR disk in part because I find playback to be so unreliable on my preferred method (HTPC). By incorporating such draconian yet useless DRM they certainly impeded my purchases substantially. In fact, I am much less likely to buy any BR disks ever due to the DRM issue.

That being said I do rent from BB Online but have had many problems with disks - about half of them have some issue or another. This does not engender confidence in the BR format and every last issue can be blamed upon excessive and intrusive DRM.

To sum it up DRM does nothing to stop or stem piracy but it sure pisses me and many other legitimate users off to no end. How can they be so utterly moronic given the vast amount of data on this? I have yet to overestimate the stupidity of the content holders; every time I think they have gone as far as they can to be stupid they find some way to top their last effort...
[/rant]

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post #6408 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 02:12 PM
 
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Most legitimate users play their movie through a standalone player. Most will never run inot a drm problem.

We are not most users, we are the cutting edge who want to wring every last drop from our purchases.
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post #6409 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

.........we are not most users, we are the cutting edge who want to wring every last drop from our purchases.

^^^^
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post #6410 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Most legitimate users play their movie through a standalone player. Most will never run inot a drm problem.

We are not most users, we are the cutting edge who want to wring every last drop from our purchases.


While I tend to agree, but the stand alones do run into problems too and require updates to play some new disc's.

Rew
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post #6411 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rew452 View Post

While I tend to agree, but the stand alones do run into problems too and require updates to play some new disc's.

Is this true? They'd killed the key for a legitimate hardware player in a case other than the hardware key being hacked? (I haven't heard of a case like that yet.) There are certainly hardware player issues, but I'm not so sure it's directly related to DRM key management. Could be wrong tho...
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post #6412 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

Is this true? They'd killed the key for a legitimate hardware player in a case other than the hardware key being hacked? (I haven't heard of a case like that yet.) There are certainly hardware player issues, but I'm not so sure it's directly related to DRM key management. Could be wrong tho...

No, not that I know of but I do know there have been playback problems with newly released disc's. Just as the software players have had.

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post #6413 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 07:14 PM
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After buying an Asus Xonar card, and being content with the free TMT that came with it, I decided to upgrade to TMT3 because of VMC integration. I really need remote control / VMC simplicty with my HTPC or my wife and kids won't use it.

However, I'm having problems getting TMT3 to work in VMC. When I launch in VMC I can only see the top left 1/4 of the screen since it opens in 1280x768 (my desktop resolution) when it should open in 1920x1080 (the resolution I've set in VMC and is the native resolution on my Samsung A550 LCD TV). I've tried emailing ArcSoft support about the issue but they won't respond, which is frustrating for a product that has email only support.

Does someone know how I can get TMT3 to open at a different resolution than my desktop (i.e. 1920x1080 so I can watch blurays)? VMC and all my programs in it launch at 1920x1080, so does every video game I own. So there must be some kind of work around to do this in TMT3. Any help would be appreciated so I can make this system remote control / VMC friendly for my wife and kids.
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post #6414 of 9551 Old 04-23-2009, 07:31 PM
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I'm still learning the VMC, but it asks or you should choose the display it opens in.

Just a guess, but the desktop is primary? Just a throught, but open TMT3 app itself. Where does it open? If on display, reduce size if fullscreen, drag to Samsung, click full screen, then close.

Start VMC, which opens on Samsung?. TMT3 is there in VMC? Click that a see if opens full. Just a wild guess.

PS: You have full screen checked in TMT3, I don't and it opens but try it.

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post #6415 of 9551 Old 04-24-2009, 07:41 AM
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I'm guessing by the lack of response no one cares about trying to compartmentalise discussion around these cards?
Guess it works fairly well in it's own kind of way the way it is now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

Ah the man likes a challenge! ;-P
Yes of course that's the case but at least if everyone's broken up into their respective OS families the 'noise' so-to-speak is reduced and we'll all have a much greater chance at "seeing the forest for the trees"

For those not familiar with the expression:
http://www.bartleby.com/59/4/cantseethefo.html

It doesn't have to be threaded quite so much, could have for e.g.

(1) HDAV1.3 / HDAV1.3 Deluxe
(a) Win 7 (w/wo MC)
(a) Vista/XP (w/wo MC)
(a) GNU/Linux, BSD's etc
(b) Hardware/Fw (e.g. opamp/fw upgrades)
(?)
(?)

(2) HDAV Slim
Similar to (1)

I'm not quite sure where the best home for this sub-forum would be and what exactly it'd be called.
I do know that it should probably be called something more generic than: "Asus HDAV cards"...

I think one level closer to the root index, straight under "Home Theatre Computers" might be the most appropriate home.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26

As always I'm open to other peoples thoughts...
But be forewarned, if you totally disagree and you don't (imo) give a clear reason, then a challenge will be forthcoming! jk ;-P



There's a thread, yes.

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post #6416 of 9551 Old 04-24-2009, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

I'm guessing by the lack of response no one cares about trying to compartmentalise discussion around these cards?
Guess it works fairly well in it's own kind of way the way it is now...

I am for it....but we really need to get a mod to assist with this.

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post #6417 of 9551 Old 04-24-2009, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

Personally, I think they overplayed their hand and were naive about how effective it could be in the long haul against pirates and how quickly tech companies could meet the spec. But I do think a level of security that prevents casual copy/exchange was probably a necessary evil--something to the level of DVD perhaps.

Personally the only thing I think that's keeping BD's from being causually exchanged like DVDs are now is the cost of the media and burners. Once those comes down I don't expect there to be much difference.

With that said, it basically speaks to your point, the CSS protection on DVD basically only kept commercial DVD players from coping commercial DVDs.

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post #6418 of 9551 Old 04-24-2009, 04:39 PM
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I'm still learning the VMC, but it asks or you should choose the display it opens in.

Just a guess, but the desktop is primary? Just a throught, but open TMT3 app itself. Where does it open? If on display, reduce size if fullscreen, drag to Samsung, click full screen, then close.

Start VMC, which opens on Samsung?. TMT3 is there in VMC? Click that a see if opens full. Just a wild guess.

PS: You have full screen checked in TMT3, I don't and it opens but try it.

I chose flat panel display via hdmi when I set up VMC. My desktop resolution is set at 1280x768 (Samsung A550 LCD TV) so I can surf the internet, read stuff, etc.. When I open up VMC the resolution changes to 1920x1080 so I can view everything in high def. With big icons and 10ft interface this works out just great. HOWEVER, when I click on TMT3 in VMC it opens, but TMT3 opens in 1280x768...which is so large that I can only see the top 1/4 of TMT3 inside of VMC (i.e. the top 1/4 fills the whole screen). This renders TMT3 absolutely useless inside of VMC. I do have auto full screen checked but that doesn't solve the issue.
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post #6419 of 9551 Old 04-25-2009, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

I am for it....but we really need to get a mod to assist with this.

Meh I give up...
I mean there are mods in this thread and they don't seem to have warmed to the idea.
And if we can't get them on board then it aint going anywhere...
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post #6420 of 9551 Old 04-25-2009, 04:00 AM
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Harman Kardon 354 Receiver

I plan to buy another short 1.3a HDMI cable and give that a try. If this works, I'm a little surprised the cable that came with the card isn't good enough. Any suggestions on a brand that is easily obtainable at a national chain store?

Any other suggestions?

livetoflyfish: I use the same AVR as yours (355 in my country), please make sure that you upgrade the 354/355 firmware to the latest version!! The upgrade will reduce HDMI problem a lot. I still use the short cable that come with the HDAV but use Sony HDMI cable to my AVR. But the most changes were when I used the Monster HDMI series 1000 cable from my 355 to Samsung Plasma 650A, the picture quality is better and had less loss signal too.

I also found that with the integrated on-board ATI HD3200, TMT crash very often until I upgrade to ATI 4670, all the crash problems GONE!

Hope it will help.
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