*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 9551 Old 08-14-2008, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MickeyDora View Post

Anyone able to get the manual from the Asus site? I keep getting 404 errors. If you got it, can you RapidShare it till Asus fixes the link. Thanks.

I think they do it on purpose until released.
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post #62 of 9551 Old 08-15-2008, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by gunbunnysoulja View Post

Is it possible to still use VGA for video from my current video card, and just run HDMI out from the Xonar to my receiver for audio?

With my 8500 GT to my Sammy 6187, IMO, the pq is better (and easier to get 1:1) via VGA.

Just an idea, you could set up dual output (Clone wouldn't work) with the primary being VGA and secondary being HDMI. Connect VGA to your Panny and loop the HDMI through the Xonar into your AVR. The HDMI wont be empty just a blank windows desktop although be careful you don't lose the mouse

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post #63 of 9551 Old 08-15-2008, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Then you will not be buying it anytime in the near future. Asus teamed up with Arcsoft to provide the needed hardware to software interfaces.

PowerDVD teamed up with Auzentech.

I know the PAP implementations of each partnership are proprietry but I can live in hope
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post #64 of 9551 Old 08-17-2008, 04:41 PM
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I noticed US Asus updated 8 Aug and Taiwan Asus update 15 Aug. Fridays? Manuals still 404

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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post #65 of 9551 Old 08-17-2008, 05:34 PM
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I'm keeping my eye on this as I need a solution for HD sound on my HTPC.


I would hope that it doesn't take too long for companies to make video cards with this support out of the box...

-Jason

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post #66 of 9551 Old 08-17-2008, 07:23 PM
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It shouldn't be that hard for them to add bitstreming into either video card or the IGP. AMD 48xx supports HDMI muti-channel PCM like a free gift on top of the video function. I still don't understand why it is hard to get a solution out.
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post #67 of 9551 Old 08-17-2008, 07:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

It shouldn't be that hard for them to add bitstreming into either video card or the IGP. AMD 48xx supports HDMI muti-channel PCM like a free gift on top of the video function. I still don't understand why it is hard to get a solution out.

The protected audio path has to have been designed in from the beginning. It is not something which can be added later (in hardware). It either has the PAP/PAVP hardware already or it never will.
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post #68 of 9551 Old 08-17-2008, 08:37 PM
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Damn PAP/PAVP. I hate it!
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post #69 of 9551 Old 08-17-2008, 11:59 PM
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Available for preorder in Norway

I have placed an order for the card with online retailer komplett.no
Estimated date for shipment of the card is August 23, 2008 (unconfirmed)

Can't wait to bitstream my collection of HD DVD and Blu-Ray from my trusty HTPC.

Kenneth
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post #70 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kennethhoeiland View Post

Available for preorder in Norway

I have placed an order for the card with online retailer komplett.no
Estimated date for shipment of the card is August 23, 2008 (unconfirmed)

Can't wait to bitstream my collection of HD DVD and Blu-Ray from my trusty HTPC.

Kenneth

What price is the preorder?

Any idea to what that equates to in GBP£ and US$

Thanks....
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post #71 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by R10KYJ View Post

What price is the preorder?

Any idea to what that equates to in GBP£ and US$

Thanks....

It is 380 USD
Or 200 GBP

It's expensive being norwegian.. Normally the "reality" rate of exchange for us is 1 USD equals 10 NOK. If a produkt is 200 USD it will be 2000 NOK regardless of exchange rates (the current exchange rate for usd is 1 USD equals 5.40 NOK)

Kenneth
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post #72 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

The protected audio path has to have been designed in from the beginning. It is not something which can be added later (in hardware). It either has the PAP/PAVP hardware already or it never will.

What exactly is PAP/PAVP hardware? Is it just HDMI/HDCP to encrypt the output? It doesn't include some kind of hardware interface for the PCI-e bus, does it? I don't see how they could somehow change that standard to suit the whims of Hollywood . . .

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post #73 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethhoeiland View Post

It is 380 USD
Or 200 GBP

It's expensive being norwegian.. Normally the "reality" rate of exchange for us is 1 USD equals 10 NOK. If a produkt is 200 USD it will be 2000 NOK regardless of exchange rates (the current exchange rate for usd is 1 USD equals 5.40 NOK)

Kenneth

$380 will be leaving me waiting for another year for something else. I can build an HTPC for that (just did actually) and although I want HD audio, it isn't worth the cost of more than a stand alone.

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post #74 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post

$380 will be leaving me waiting for another year for something else. I can build an HTPC for that (just did actually) and although I want HD audio, it isn't worth the cost of more than a stand alone.

WOW! $380? Can you PM your build list (parts)? Thanks.
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post #75 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MickeyDora View Post

WOW! $380? Can you PM your build list (parts)? Thanks.

Considering you have purchased 313 discs of a Dead format and 250 discs of a more expensive format, does the price of the computer really matter to you? That is a heck of a lot of discs!
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post #76 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 10:59 AM
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I doubt it will be retailed at $380 at US. I think that it will be around $200.
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post #77 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Considering you have purchased 313 discs of a Dead format and 250 discs of a more expensive format, does the price of the computer really matter to you? That is a heck of a lot of discs!

LOL!!! I haven't updated that list in months. I am probably close to 500 on BD and close to 350-375 on HD DVD.

Actually my last HTPC cost me almost $2000 (built May 07) and I am noticing that the newer hardware can do things my current setup can't do for less than half the price. Don't you just love technology?
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post #78 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 11:28 AM
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According to what they were saying in the taiwan forums, I think they said it would come out to about 185 US dollars without addon board and 230 with.
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post #79 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 11:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

What exactly is PAP/PAVP hardware? Is it just HDMI/HDCP to encrypt the output? It doesn't include some kind of hardware interface for the PCI-e bus, does it? I don't see how they could somehow change that standard to suit the whims of Hollywood . . .

Basically (and if I am wrong, I am sure someone will chime in to correct me ), the hardware must encrypt the audio. It adds "encryption noise" to the audio as it sends it along. The software player must remove this "encryption noise" using a decryption key. This key is known only to the software player and the hardware.

The software player must request the encryption from the hardware. If it does not, the hardware will downsample and send unencrypted sound.

Therein lies the problem. The hardware and software must know enough about each other to make sure the request and decryption work properly. A request without a proper key results in noise. No request results in downsampled sound.

This has to be built from the ground up, with constant communications between the hardware maker and the software player maker.
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post #80 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Basically (and if I am wrong, I am sure someone will chime in to correct me ), the hardware must encrypt the audio. It adds "encryption noise" to the audio as it sends it along. The software player must remove this "encryption noise" using a decryption key. This key is known only to the software player and the hardware.

The software player must request the encryption from the hardware. If it does not, the hardware will downsample and send unencrypted sound.

Sounds about right. But I suspect the hardware (audio card) does the decryption and the SW does the encryption? Otherwise what hardware would be doing the encryption, the BD player or motherboard?

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post #81 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 01:07 PM
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Here there is some hole in the process if what you kust described is correct. In order for both party of the communication understand to each other, they need to use handshaking protocols. If they use symmetric alogrithm for encrypting the data between them, they need to use the same key. If the key is embedded in the software, it will be found out later just like how AACS is broken. If they generate the key on the fly, someone can then monitor that process and get the key in the same way, so I think that the best business approach is to giving up the old thinking and find some other way.
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post #82 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

Here there is some hole in the process if what you kust described is correct. In order for both party of the communication understand to each other, they need to use handshaking protocols. If they use symmetric alogrithm for encrypting the data between them, they need to use the same key. If the key is embedded in the software, it will be found out later just like how AACS is broken. If they generate the key on the fly, someone can then monitor that process and get the key in the same way, so I think that the best business approach is to giving up the old thinking and find some other way.

Yes, the key is easily broken. Yes, it's a pointless and silly requirement for PAP/PAVP.

And yes, the hardware has to be certified. They are all using the same encryption as the non-PAP cards, but the PAP cards are certified that the encryption doesn't have some hole at the hardware level (e.g. where you could plug something in and get decrypted HD audio).

Very very dumb, since you can easily decrypt all the source material, and would never bother trying to decrypt at the hardware level. But whatever.

So while the 4850/70 and all the other HDMI HD audio/video IGPs on the market today are technically capable of sending HD audio bitstreams, the hardware hasn't been certified, and likely couldn't be certified, so the software players aren't allowed to send hd bitstream audio.

Simply braindead, yes.

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post #83 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 01:40 PM
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From your description, it seems to me that once someone figured out how to fool the software player to send out encrypted bitstream audio and decrypt it on the fly before sending it to 4850/70 or G45, we could get a solution without using the expensive audio card that claims to support HD audio bit stream. So we have wide choice for IGP/video cards etc.
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post #84 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 01:41 PM
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I saw 230 German Marks yesterday for the two cards - pre/pre-order.

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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post #85 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreydeng View Post

From your description, it seems to me that once someone figured out how to fool the software player to send out encrypted bitstream audio and decrypt it on the fly before sending it to 4850/70 or G45, we could get a solution without using the expensive audio card that claims to support HD audio bit stream. So we have wide choice for IGP/video cards etc.

Yes, based on my understanding that should be the case. Unless there is some sort of unique driver/key combo between the software and the specific PAVP device, in which case the "fooling" might be a little harder, but still doable.

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post #86 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Davinleeds View Post

I saw 230 German Marks yesterday for the two cards - pre/pre-order.

Are you kidding?
There is no German Mark anymore since 2002!
The "new" currency is called Euro (1 Euro = 1,95583 DM), just for your information...

Regards, nosurrender
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post #87 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Yes, the key is easily broken. Yes, it's a pointless and silly requirement for PAP/PAVP.

And yes, the hardware has to be certified. They are all using the same encryption as the non-PAP cards, but the PAP cards are certified that the encryption doesn't have some hole at the hardware level (e.g. where you could plug something in and get decrypted HD audio).

Very very dumb, since you can easily decrypt all the source material, and would never bother trying to decrypt at the hardware level. But whatever.

So while the 4850/70 and all the other HDMI HD audio/video IGPs on the market today are technically capable of sending HD audio bitstreams, the hardware hasn't been certified, and likely couldn't be certified, so the software players aren't allowed to send hd bitstream audio.

Simply braindead, yes.

Lossless PCM and bitstreams are BOTH supposed to be secure per AACS. Btw, for those that missed the response in another thread, there has been some preliminary confirmation that Cyberlink and Intel are implementing PAP for the G45 boards. Also, those that own ATi 48XX series may still hold out some small hope that their hardware is capable of PAP and bitstreaming (with hypothetical driver/player updates) given the reference to Dolby TruHD in their marketing materials.
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post #88 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

And yes, the hardware has to be certified. They are all using the same encryption as the non-PAP cards, but the PAP cards are certified that the encryption doesn't have some hole at the hardware level (e.g. where you could plug something in and get decrypted HD audio).

Actually, the term "certification" implies there is some third party that does the certifying (i.e. an AACS technical review board)--which I don't think actually exists. It seems like what's been going on over the past year is that Cyberlink and Arcsoft are so terrified of getting their Blu-ray player licenses revoked and getting sued, that they have taken the precautionary legal measure of downsampling hi def audio barring any special arrangements made by a hardware company (in this case, Auzentech, Asus, and from recent news, Intel).
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post #89 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nosurrender View Post

Are you kidding?
There is no German Mark anymore since 2002!
The "new" currency is called Euro (1 Euro = 1,95583 DM), just for your information...

Regards, nosurrender

Yeah, you're right it was Euro. Interesting that there's still a conversion rate, if there's no DM.

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post #90 of 9551 Old 08-18-2008, 03:09 PM
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Why is there no pre-order in the US?
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