*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Wait a minute! Why does the PS3 have significant Bass Loss? I would expect everything to sound the same?

When you say "same volume" do you mean that you are showing the same Db level on the receiver or are you actually measuring the volume with an SPL? If you are not using an SPL then the comparison is not valid.

Yes. Same volume means the same output level shown on the receiver. Why would I want an SPL since I could hear the difference so clearly with my ears? The difference going from the internally decoded PS3 to the bitstreamed external decoding in the Integra is not subtle. The LPCM sounds very good but the bitstreamed signal through the Integra sounds incredible by comparison.
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post #902 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myAV View Post

Yes. Same volume means the same output level shown on the receiver. Why would I want an SPL since I could hear the difference so clearly with my ears? The difference going from the internally decoded PS3 to the bitstreamed external decoding in the Integra is not subtle. The LPCM sounds very good but the bitstreamed signal through the Integra sounds incredible by comparison.


That's an issue with the PS3, not with LPCM vs. bitstream. But the point is valid, which is not trusting source devices to do proper decoding of the bitstream.

So while technically, LPCM = bistream no matter who does it, it seems that many source devices (including the PS3 and TMT/PDVD, among others), don't properly do the decoding, bizarre as that might seem.

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #903 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

Any bitstream device will sound identical so I would hang on with G45 and wait for Intel and MS to get their act together. HDAV is the expensive way of getting what we should have already if microsoft wasn't such an arse.

The only way I would see the HDAV being the better option is if the electronics in the HDAV were better at decoding to analogue than your Onkyo. My gut feeling is that they probably are a bit better but you lose out on being able to set delays/speaker distances and using Audyssey etc.

It is a tricky one to call unless you are able to test either option back to back. However if it were me I would probably wait for Bitstream on the G45.

Adam

There is some question as to whether the the G45 will really be capable of doing the bitstreaming. AnandTech had an article about this recently. Hope they are wrong (I have several G45s). If not, I will be getting the Xonar (if they ever get the drivers up to snuff).
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post #904 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamilbok View Post

O, I have it directly connected to projector, and I do not know if my Onkyo SR 805 has something like info.

It does, the display button.
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post #905 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

You do realize that LPCM is identical to bitstream? The only issue right now is the bitstripping/downconverting/molesting done by TMT/PDVD. And the reality is it's having minimal effect on the sound, but it does introduce issues like lipsynch and periodic pops.

myAV's post about the PS3 screwing with the bass must be a configuration issue on his side. My PS3, as well as my HTPC, play substantial bass with LPCM.

So no, you won't notice any dramatic sound difference between LPCM (even bitstripped/downconverted) and bitstreaming, on the same setup and configured the same way. You'll just finally be rid of the extra molesting that TMT/PDVD do.

Which is enough to get me to buy this card, even though I already have a G35, G45, and 4850.

First, The comparison I did was between a standalone player and a game console that could playback BDs. So there was no bitstripping/downconverting or molesting etc ... involved whatsoever. It wasn't a configuration issue on my side either. It was just a clear difference between a player vs receiver decoded audio signal.
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post #906 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 08:36 AM
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Hi myAV, i have a question about using the ps3 as your bluray player with the hdav.

I'm wondering whether you can use the ps3 to decode HBR formats and use the xonar hdav to play the decoded audio through hdmi? The setup would be:

- PS3 hdmi-out goes to Xonar hdmi-in

- Xonar hdmi-out goes to TV

The ps3 audio would be setup to output LPCM in 7.1 or 5.1. I'm wondering whether the xonar would play this audio stream through its analog outs then stream the video in its hdmi out.

I was recently enlightened by this ps3 faq so i thought that this situation would be ideal for me.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=1058533#audio
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post #907 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myAV View Post

First, The comparison I did was between a standalone player and a game console that could playback BDs. So there was no bitstripping/downconverting or molesting etc ... involved whatsoever. It wasn't a configuration issue on my side either. It was just a clear difference between a player vs receiver decoded audio signal.

See, now you're not getting it. If the sound is at all different, than the PS3 is doing something wrong.

The decoding from bitstream to LPCM is math, plain and simple. There's no way to get different results, unless the device doing the decoding is doing something wrong.

However, after thinking about it, it's more likely you have a different matrix mode on your AVR. I can test my PS3 today and see if it does LPCM properly or not.

Again, there is no difference, it's either right or wrong (or molested, like in the HTPC case).

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #908 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemac View Post

It does, the display button.

Thank you I'll try.

Kamil
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post #909 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 09:07 AM
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Can anyone confirm if the TMT version supplied with the ASUS HDAV will play ripped folders from HDD? Not a big deal, I was just wondering since I hadn't heard anything in awhile about this. I have about half my BD/HD collection backed up to ripped folders and the other half to .iso files. I have been expierencing some minor problems with the iso's that I don't have with ripped folders. When I finish one and start another using TMT/Daemon Tools or Virtual Clone/MyMovies inside of VMC the second/third/etc. movie will start in Fast Foward and I can't get it to play at regular speed without exiting TMT and then selecting watch again which usually fixes the problem.

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post #910 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 09:16 AM
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Quote:


I need 12m long HDMI kabel from Onkyo to Infocus. By your opinion will I need hdmi booster? For DVI I have one.

I don't think so.
I'm using a 30 ft HDMI to connect from my computer room to our bedroom Where we have a 42" sony,so my wife can watch in bed.(Crystal clear.)
I quite sure after 100 ft. you might need a booster.
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post #911 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

Sorry if it seems I am picking on you, I really appreciate your info on here.

When using LPCM can you confirm the Audio on the 8.8 was set to LPCM and not another 'surround' setting?

Do you know whether the 8.8 applies Audyssey to both LPCM and Bitstream? I know the new Marantz Pre/Pro for instance does not, as it does not have enough processing power to decode HD and apply Audyssey. Easiest way to check is to disable Audyssey of course

Thanks,

Adam

I am pretty sure that Integra's LPCM setting was correct and no other surround setting involved during the comparison.I know some lower end AVR's turn off Audyssey when the receiver is decoding TrueHD or DTS-MA due to there being not enough processing power in the AVR. Owners of these confirm that the Audyssey logo does indeed turn off. it looks like the Integra 8.8 is up in the Integra line have enough processing power to handle it. The settings achieved in the Auto setup and the Audyssey processing are two different things. Its obvious that if Audyssey filtering is turned off in the setup menu the distance, crossover, and trim levels won't change.

To me it makes no sense to disable Audyssey in this way. My Integra indicates that the Audyssey filtering/processing remains active unless I turn it off. BTW,( I just upgraded to Integra 9.8 )
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post #912 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

See, now you're not getting it. If the sound is at all different, than the PS3 is doing something wrong.

The decoding from bitstream to LPCM is math, plain and simple. There's no way to get different results, unless the device doing the decoding is doing something wrong.

However, after thinking about it, it's more likely you have a different matrix mode on your AVR. I can test my PS3 today and see if it does LPCM properly or not.

Again, there is no difference, it's either right or wrong (or molested, like in the HTPC case).

Have you ever done a similar comparison test? I mean just like the one I did? If not, may I kindly ask you to do one and report back your findings?
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post #913 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna1934 View Post

I don't think so.
I'm using a 30 ft HDMI to connect from my computer room to our bedroom Where we have a 42" sony,so my wife can watch in bed.(Crystal clear.)
I quite sure after 100 ft. you might need a booster.

That's a good news, because for twelve meters of DVI I have sparkles in 1080p.
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post #914 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephster View Post

It will work in any pci-e slot. Most people wil use the small (and slower) pci-e x1
slot, as they will use a graphics card in the long (and faster) x16 slot(s), but it can certainly be used there.

I have the card so know this

Obviously you can't use a *pci* slot. IIRC the previous Xonar was made for that type of slot.

That's great. I'm not doing two video cards so this saves me buying new gear just to fit this new toy in!

Thanks so much for clarifying! Now how long till it's available north of 49??!!!

Craig
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post #915 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myAV View Post

Have you ever done a similar comparison test? I mean just like the one I did? If not, may I kindly ask you to do one and report back your findings?

Tons. And pretty regularly.

Whenever I hear an anomoly on my HTPC, which is pretty often, I test the same BD in the PS3 and dedicated BD player. The first couple of times I had to configure the inputs on my AVR to be consistent so I wasn't doing different matrixing, etc. But now, they all sound identical (although I don't generally use the PS3, which was my response to your post, that I'll test that again).

Edit: Don't forget to turn DRC to "OFF" in the PS3 (and any other BD player). This is just a mistake for some reason, and results in significant loss of fidelity. (Default is "Automatic")

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #916 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digi247 View Post

I am afraid that apparently the Video signal is not untouched and that when fed through the Xonar that some sort of video processing is happening to the signal,

Hmm if true then this is very VERY bad


Quote:
Originally Posted by Digi247 View Post

Maybe when the Vista and XP drivers are sorted this so called 'Added Brightness' will be solved.

Well I very much doubt that this will / could be solved by better drivers; in fact I suppose this has nothing to do with any software at all because the picture is (over)bright even in BIOS / during booting sequence / when starting operating system...


myAV, because you seem to be the Xonar "guru", could you please comment this? Have you encountered it as well? I mean if Xonar is really not only mixing video and audio together but in fact "doing something" with video signal (e.g. altering picture properties) even if Splendid is disabled then I find this to be VERY alarming!
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post #917 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 11:45 AM
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I can confirm that the video isn't left untouched by the Xonar, it appears way to bright in both XP and Vista. I really hope Asus is working hard on the known issues, the current situation is far from acceptable for a device this expensive.
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post #918 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by striky View Post

I can confirm that the video isn't left untouched by the Xonar, it appears way to bright in both XP and Vista. I really hope Asus is working hard on the known issues, the current situation is far from acceptable for a device this expensive.

As I wrote earlier I am afraid it has nothing to do with XP / Vista / whatever software hence Xonar is altering video signal on a hardware level permanently hence it will be impossible to fix it via software (drivers) fix. The only possible way I can think of is a newer / fixed firmware - if ever available...
I am really disappointed
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post #919 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

The decoding from bitstream to LPCM is math, plain and simple. There's no way to get different results, unless the device doing the decoding is doing something wrong.



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post #920 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 04:22 PM
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Hi, I recived the xonar today and have been trying to get it to work for some hours. Ive downloaded the beta drivers for both arcsoft and xonar on the asus homepage. In xonar hdav center I set hdmi out to dolby digital live and in arcsoft I set audio to hdmi. When I play DTS, DTS-HD and dts-es files I get no sound in arcsoft, my onkyo tx-sr606 reciver display has DTS highlighted though. Tried playing the same files in vlc mediaplayer and I suddently get sound, but no luck with arcsoft.

Im running the video from ati 4700 in extended desktop mode (1280x720) and pc monitor is running (1680x1050). Got all Listening mode presets set to last valid in onkyo tx-sr606.
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post #921 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marflow View Post

Hi, I recived the xonar today and have been trying to get it to work for some hours. Ive downloaded the beta drivers for both arcsoft and xonar on the asus homepage. In xonar hdav center I set hdmi out to dolby digital live and in arcsoft I set audio to hdmi. When I play DTS, DTS-HD and dts-es files I get no sound in arcsoft, my onkyo tx-sr606 reciver display has DTS highlighted though. Tried playing the same files in vlc mediaplayer and I suddently get sound, but no luck with arcsoft.

Im running the video from ati 4700 in extended desktop mode (1280x720) and pc monitor is running (1680x1050). Got all Listening mode presets set to last valid in onkyo tx-sr606.

The Dolby Digital Live setting will only give you standard Dolby Digital you should change this to either 5.1 or 7.1 speakers and nothing else in the HDMI setting, Then try again
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post #922 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 06:13 PM
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ok heres a real question ,

If i run my 2nd display DVI output
(because the 1st goes straight into my TV and i'd like to keep it that way)
from my 7800GTX to my Denon-4308's HDMI input then out the amp on the 2nd HDMI output to the Asus HDAV input could i use the card with anything on my setup (by controlling it from the 1st gfx card output) and then dragging what ever window over to use the HDAV card with my pc should i need to. bit complicated but i think i got there
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post #923 of 9551 Old 09-20-2008, 08:08 PM
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Ok i did some testing result......... no sound
1:unplugged/plugged....no good
2:changed res......no good
3:changed hdmi lead.........no good
4:disabled ati drivers and removed creative sound drivers......no good
5: changed amp settings .....no good
i think there is a problem between arcsoft and xonar software, for it to see hdmi, i am still seeing the message to select hdmi in the audio device.....
or there is some program that is blocking the hdmi signal between the to devices and then to the amp.......because some people are getting the signal to there amp but most of us are not (with out a format and starting again)....there must be a way around it or to test to see what it is........thanks again all you help would be appreciated
im using
ati 4850
lg-bluray-hd-dvd drive
philips 42pf7421 lcd 720p tv
tx-sr 605 onkyo
amd x2 5000+
xp services pack 3
...............caveman001
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post #924 of 9551 Old 09-21-2008, 01:32 AM
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I would advice everyone to send Asus a technical inquiry about the current issues on: http://support.asus.com/techserv/tec...Language=en-us
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post #925 of 9551 Old 09-21-2008, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by striky View Post

I would advice everyone to send Asus a technical inquiry about the current issues on: http://support.asus.com/techserv/tec...Language=en-us

Sent my enquiry in
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post #926 of 9551 Old 09-21-2008, 05:09 AM
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Hey guys, check out the Asus download section and you can find some useful new information there.

http://support.asus.com/download/dow...Language=en-us
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post #927 of 9551 Old 09-21-2008, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by myAV View Post

Hey guys, check out the Asus download section and you can find some useful new information there.

http://support.asus.com/download/dow...Language=en-us

Information is fine myAV but i would imagine that actual working drivers for the Xonar in XP and Vista is what everyone wants and not just information that most people already know.
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post #928 of 9551 Old 09-21-2008, 06:10 AM
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Can anybody tell me, what is the purpose of sister card with 6 analogue outputs in case, that I have AVR, which is capable of HDMI and all new formats?

Will it be used for EAX games only?

Thanks for info in advance.

Kamil
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post #929 of 9551 Old 09-21-2008, 06:13 AM
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Now there's others under select OS. I missed that before?

PDF's, aren't these on the Xonar disk?

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post #930 of 9551 Old 09-21-2008, 09:15 AM
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Since HDMI is said to be related and an advancement of DVI and fully backwards compatible with DVI -So I have read

If you connect this card to a Receiver as we have to do, can you connect the receiver to a DVI display by using a HDMI->DVI adapter and have proper picture? There shouldn't be any difficulty as long as the display and the card are all HDCP compatible.
Has anybody tried a setup of this nature?
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