*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 319 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:31 PM
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From yesterday's nVidia update, the HDMI audio device no longer disables when switching off the receiver. The display disables, but the audio device remains enabled.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:12 PM
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Mediamonkey and ASUS XONAR HDAV 1.3dlx

Now this got me thinking, Using Mediamonkey, you choose the audio output and you have three choices. Mediamonkey DirectSound, Medimonkey WASAPI and WAV.

WASAPI causes me all kind of problems, skipping, silence garbage.

So the question is this, using Mediamonkey DirectSound with Windows 7 and the ASUS XONAR 1.3 installed. Am I using the processing capability of the ASUS HDAV or sending the signal first through Windows crap and then the ASUS HDAV ,then I'm not getting bit perfect sounds which was the whole point of getting the ASUS HDAV?

I've tried installing ASIO4ALL and with limited success. I don't get 5.1 sound on all ASIO.dll drivers.

So a media application has to be able to select the XONAR I would presume to utilize it. Either WASAPI or ASIO.

And has anyone tried the UNIdriver upgrades for the ASUS XONAR?
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post
Now this got me thinking, Using Mediamonkey, you choose the audio output and you have three choices. Mediamonkey DirectSound, Medimonkey WASAPI and WAV.

WASAPI causes me all kind of problems, skipping, silence garbage.

So the question is this, using Mediamonkey DirectSound with Windows 7 and the ASUS XONAR 1.3 installed. Am I using the processing capability of the ASUS HDAV or sending the signal first through Windows crap and then the ASUS HDAV ,then I'm not getting bit perfect sounds which was the whole point of getting the ASUS HDAV?

I've tried installing ASIO4ALL and with limited success. I don't get 5.1 sound on all ASIO.dll drivers.

So a media application has to be able to select the XONAR I would presume to utilize it. Either WASAPI or ASIO.

And has anyone tried the UNIdriver upgrades for the ASUS XONAR?
WASAPI exclusive mode is bit-perfect from the Windows side. However it is possible for the driver or sound card to resample the audio. You have to use the HDMI playback device (not the Speakers playback device) and WASAPI exclusive mode. This will result in the player passing bit-perfect audio to the sound card driver. Windows will not touch the audio. The sound card or the driver may internally resample the audio but there is nothing you can do about this.

Both the HTHD and the Xonar HDAV natively support ASIO which should be bit perfect through the entire Windows + driver chain. The HTHD has a bit-matched mode which must be enabled. Ironically you have to use the Speakers playback device for this but there should be no additional processing in ASIO mode. The audio will be output as 8 channel PCM through the HDMI port.

The HDAV was never designed for bit-perfect audio. It was designed to digitise your typical PC analog output into HDMI (it also has analog output ports). The HTHD has a bit-matched mode in Audio Creation Mode where it *should* keep it bit-perfect through out till the HDMI port.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:43 PM
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More crazy pills...

Okay, so lets step back and take a deep breath. The purpose of getting my ASUS XONAR HDAV card was to realize HI-FI, audiophile grade sound from my Windows 7/64 bit system using Mediamonkey either in WASAPI, ASIO, Direct to my Pioneer SC-27 and then out to my Klipsch LA-SCALA'S.

BUT according to AVS/AIX High-Resolution Audio Test: Ready, Set, Go! This is how to setup a HI-FI audiophile grade sound from Windows 7/64 bit.


That laptop don't have no ASUS XONAR HDAV in it and it certainly don't have Burr Brown 192kHz/24-bit analog-to-digital converters and Wolfson WM8740 192kHz/24-bit DACs like in my SC-27.

So it seems to have HI-FI audiophile grade sound from Windows 7/64 bit system, I just need to run the sound any ole way to my SC-27 and viola-I have a HI-FI audiophile grade sound from Windows 7/64 bit system!

I got this from:

AVS/AIX High-Resolution Audio Test: Ready, Set, Go!

So let the ripping begin.

Dave
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post
Now this got me thinking, Using Mediamonkey, you choose the audio output and you have three choices. Mediamonkey DirectSound, Medimonkey WASAPI and WAV.

WASAPI causes me all kind of problems, skipping, silence garbage.

So the question is this, using Mediamonkey DirectSound with Windows 7 and the ASUS XONAR 1.3 installed. Am I using the processing capability of the ASUS HDAV or sending the signal first through Windows crap and then the ASUS HDAV ,then I'm not getting bit perfect sounds which was the whole point of getting the ASUS HDAV?

I've tried installing ASIO4ALL and with limited success. I don't get 5.1 sound on all ASIO.dll drivers.

So a media application has to be able to select the XONAR I would presume to utilize it. Either WASAPI or ASIO.

And has anyone tried the UNIdriver upgrades for the ASUS XONAR?
"And has anyone tried the UNIdriver upgrades for the ASUS XONAR?"
I have an HDAV1.3 Deluxe and the UniXonar drivers are the only ones that make the card work correctly for me....

Last edited by vcrpro3; 08-20-2014 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:29 PM
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Why yes I have and did so just yesterday. I had to run Windows 7/64 bit in the test mode.
But I also had the last XONAR drivers from ASUS working in windows 7/64 bit. Is it better? I personally don't hear a difference.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:43 PM
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BTW, How is the SLIM version of this card for gaming?
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by D_real_leSLIe View Post
BTW, How is the SLIM version of this card for gaming?
The slim version is PCI card so avoid it at all costs. There is really no need to get these anymore unless you have a specific requirement such as not being able to use GPU HDMI.
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by KurianOfBorg View Post
The slim version is PCI card so avoid it at all costs. There is really no need to get these anymore unless you have a specific requirement such as not being able to use GPU HDMI.
That or the PCIe Deluxe version. Will the GPU HDMI (Amd 290X) will be able to get me DTS HD or Dolby TrueHD?
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Old 08-21-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by KurianOfBorg View Post
The slim version is PCI card so avoid it at all costs. There is really no need to get these anymore unless you have a specific requirement such as not being able to use GPU HDMI.
A voice of reason perhaps.

My thought is, say your using WASAPI or ASIO. Does it matter what sound card your using when hooked up to very good DAC. Regardless how your out putting the source. Aren't you bypassing essentially everything int the computer?

I'm talking strictly audiophile stereo/SACD perhaps.

This insane asylum is killing me.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:44 PM
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Both the HDAV Slim and HDAV1.3 Deluxe hit the market when most video cards did not have HDMI outputs and gave the user that connection with quality multichannel digital audio. Most vid cards today offer HDMI out making them obselete. I tested my HDAV1.3 cards video processing capability(Asus Splendid Video) using the DVI connection on my GTX650Ti and the picture quality was a downgrade from what was output on the cards own HDMI out...I am only using the HDAV1.3 analog audio outputs anyway...
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:48 PM
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PC game audio

Hi. It's been a while. I am here to shamelessly pick people's brains for free, again, and I will say up front that I did not read all 319 pages of this thread. So if this is a repeat question, please flame me to your heart's content, but be sporting and answer, too, if you will. Here's the thing: I play games with PCM surround sound. I currently am getting true in-game audio (and DTS HDMA, etc.) by running a dual-monitor setup with a 2560 monitor for video through DP and a Sony AVR through HDMI for audio, telling Windows that the Sony is a monitor. I do that because if I just run GTX 780Ti SLI/AVR/Samsung S27A850D, there is lag, which is poison for gaming, and I doubt it would work at all with my new 2560x1440 resolution. It works great, except the dual monitor setup is giving me fits on boot, and other minor annoyances, no need to go into that here. So I'm thinking let a sound card handle the audio and go back to a single monitor setup.

So, two questions: Will this card send the same audio through its HDMI out that I now get from the Nvidia graphics card's HDMI? Is there a different card that will, whether or not this one will? Thanks for reading all this.

Last edited by hobnobber; 10-27-2014 at 03:58 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 10-27-2014, 10:07 PM
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Both the Xonar HDAV and X-Fi HTHD show up as separate audio devices in Windows. However they also require a HDMI input. If you provide this from the GPU it will still show up as a second monitor. Instead you can buy a cheap VGA to HDMI converter that produces a dummy HDMI signal to feed into the sound card.

Another limitation of the sound cards is that they actually show up as two devices (Speakers & HDMI). Only the speakers device accepts 8-channel PCM. Only the HDMI device accepts bit-streaming. The HDMI device only accepts 2-channel PCM. So you have to use the Speakers device as default to get 7.1 and specifically select the HDMI device for bitstreaming. If you set the HDMI device as the output device in a media player, then Dolby and DTS will bitstream, but something like AAC will get downmixed to stereo until you change the output device to Speakers.

If your receiver supports 4K resolutions then your best option is to just clone the HDMI and DisplayPort displays. You can clone a 120 Hz DisplayPort with a 60 Hz HDMI and set the 120 Hz display as the Clone Source so everything works normally such as 3D Vision, G-Sync, etc.

Last edited by KurianOfBorg; 10-27-2014 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 10-28-2014, 04:48 AM
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Thank you tons. I don't want to have to fiddle with anything to get sound each time, so, I guess the card is out. (You did clear up a long-standing mystery for me, though---why I had to set my old DDL card to "Speakers" in Windows.) I tried "duplicate these displays" in Windows, but that leaves me nothing higher than 1920 x 1080 and reports the Samsung monitor as a generic PnP. Are you saying that there are AVRs that will do 2560 x 1440? My present Sony STR-DH810 apparently does not.
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by hobnobber View Post
Thank you tons. I don't want to have to fiddle with anything to get sound each time, so, I guess the card is out. (You did clear up a long-standing mystery for me, though---why I had to set my old DDL card to "Speakers" in Windows.) I tried "duplicate these displays" in Windows, but that leaves me nothing higher than 1920 x 1080 and reports the Samsung monitor as a generic PnP. Are you saying that there are AVRs that will do 2560 x 1440? My present Sony STR-DH810 apparently does not.
There is no fiddling if you give up bitstreaming. VGA to HDMI adapter -> Sound card -> AVR. Just use the Speakers device as default.

You can attempt an EDID override on the HDMI display and see whether the receiver accepts a low refresh rate signal at 2560x1440@30Hz or something. Then you'll be able to clone it. Cloning with custom resolutions is not supported.

Last edited by KurianOfBorg; 10-28-2014 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by KurianOfBorg View Post
There is no fiddling if you give up bitstreaming. VGA to HDMI adapter -> Sound card -> AVR. Just use the Speakers device as default.

You can attempt an EDID override on the HDMI display and see whether the receiver accepts a low refresh rate signal at 2560x1440@30Hz or something. Then you'll be able to clone it. Cloning with custom resolutions is not supported.
Thanks, again. So, you're saying let the card do all the decoding such that the AVR will report "multi in" or whatever instead of DTS HDMA, etc.? And what VGA? Are you saying that the on-board VGA is still live enough for this even though it is disabled in BIOS? The GTX 780 Ti has no VGA jack.
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by hobnobber View Post
Thanks, again. So, you're saying let the card do all the decoding such that the AVR will report "multi in" or whatever instead of DTS HDMA, etc.? And what VGA? Are you saying that the on-board VGA is still live enough for this even though it is disabled in BIOS? The GTX 780 Ti has no VGA jack.
The card doesn't decode anything on it's own. You need codecs like LAV Filters and dtsdecoder.dll to decode and output PCM. PowerDVD can directly output PCM. Only very old cards like the PCI X-Fi supported decoding DTS and Dolby that were "bitstreamed" to the Speakers device on Windows XP.

You don't need a VGA connection at all. Since it's an analog input, most VGA to HDMI converters like this one permanently output a HDMI signal when they're powered on.

I haven't used the Xonar but only the HTHD. The HTHD is a real Creative X-Fi with EAX 5. Both cards have been abandoned years ago by the manufacturers. You can get the latest unofficial drivers for the HTHD here.

I would personally avoid the sound card and just buy a new AVR with analog inputs like a Marantz and use a Sound Blaster Z, unless you want to make use of Audyssey room correction which doesn't work on analog inputs, but that's a whole new set of problems.

Last edited by KurianOfBorg; 10-28-2014 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by KurianOfBorg View Post
The card doesn't decode anything on it's own. You need codecs like LAV Filters and dtsdecoder.dll to decode and output PCM. PowerDVD can directly output PCM. Only very old cards like the PCI X-Fi supported decoding DTS and Dolby that were "bitstreamed" to the Speakers device on Windows XP.

You don't need a VGA connection at all. Since it's an analog input, most VGA to HDMI converters like this one permanently output a HDMI signal when they're powered on.

I haven't used the Xonar but only the HTHD. The HTHD is a real Creative X-Fi with EAX 5. Both cards have been abandoned years ago by the manufacturers. You can get the latest unofficial drivers for the HTHD here.

I would personally avoid the sound card and just buy a new AVR with analog inputs like a Marantz and use a Sound Blaster Z, unless you want to make use of Audyssey room correction which doesn't work on analog inputs, but that's a whole new set of problems.
I'm beginning to think I understand even less than I thought I did. Why, O why is it so bloody difficult to get sound out of a computer in the twenty-first century? So, can I have "hd" audio from a sound card in both XBMC and Crysis? In other words, LPCM or whatever it is from games and DTS HDMA and Dolby TrueHD from Blu-rays. What am I giving up by giving up bitsreaming?

And, sorry, I read "adapter" where you meant "converter". My bad. You are being very patient and helpful.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:13 AM
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I'm beginning to think I understand even less than I thought I did. Why, O why is it so bloody difficult to get sound out of a computer in the twenty-first century? So, can I have "hd" audio from a sound card in both XBMC and Crysis? In other words, LPCM or whatever it is from games and DTS HDMA and Dolby TrueHD from Blu-rays. What am I giving up by giving up bitsreaming?

And, sorry, I read "adapter" where you meant "converter". My bad. You are being very patient and helpful.
All games and applications including Blu-ray players output multi-channel PCM by default. This is sufficient to get uncompressed HD audio from everything with a HDMI sound card.

Bitstreaming needs to be manually enabled only if you want it. The usual reason is people feel their AVR has a superior codec (unlikely), or they don't want the PCM going through the Windows mixer and getting mixed with background sounds from other applications (solved by enabling WASAPI exclusive mode in the player). Bitstreaming comes with disadvantages such as taking a long time to seek in a video and missing the first few seconds of playback while the AVR changes modes.

Since those sound cards are abandoned and may stop working on Windows 10, it's better to get an AVR that supports 2560x1440 and clone your displays. Even the latest drivers for these cards are a pile of garbage compared to newer analog cards.

Last edited by KurianOfBorg; 10-28-2014 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KurianOfBorg View Post
All games and applications including Blu-ray players output multi-channel PCM by default. This is sufficient to get uncompressed HD audio from everything with a HDMI sound card.

Bitstreaming needs to be manually enabled only if you want it. The usual reason is people feel their AVR has a superior codec (unlikely), or they don't want the PCM going through the Windows mixer and getting mixed with background sounds from other applications (solved by enabling WASAPI exclusive mode in the player). Bitstreaming comes with disadvantages such as taking a long time to seek in a video and missing the first few seconds of playback while the AVR changes modes.

Since those sound cards are abandoned and may stop working on Windows 10, it's better to get an AVR that supports 2560x1440 and clone your displays. Even the latest drivers for these cards are a pile of garbage compared to newer analog cards.
You're good. I understood all that, I think, which I always take as a sign that the other guy knows what he's talking about. One thing, though, I have used MakeMKV to put all my Blu-rays on a NAS, so there is no Blu-ray player in the loop. Will that signal be looking for a decoder?

I'd be happy to get a new AVR, but I'm afraid that that will not make Windows any happier and let me see the boot dialogue on the Samsung monitor, which has to be connected to DP or DVI-D from the GTX 780 Ti, neither of which seem to be the default primary display output from that card. It sends everything to the AVR until I'm already at Windows desktop. This is partly why I'm groping for a different solution. That, and with the dual monitors, the mouse pointer sometimes wriggles off the corner onto the non-existent monitor, and I have to bait it back onto the desktop with virtual cheese. I don't think there is a way to flash the graphics card for that.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:26 AM
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You're good. I understood all that, I think, which I always take as a sign that the other guy knows what he's talking about. One thing, though, I have used MakeMKV to put all my Blu-rays on a NAS, so there is no Blu-ray player in the loop. Will that signal be looking for a decoder?

I'd be happy to get a new AVR, but I'm afraid that that will not make Windows any happier and let me see the boot dialogue on the Samsung monitor, which has to be connected to DP or DVI-D from the GTX 780 Ti, neither of which seem to be the default primary display output from that card. It sends everything to the AVR until I'm already at Windows desktop. This is partly why I'm groping for a different solution. That, and with the dual monitors, the mouse pointer sometimes wriggles off the corner onto the non-existent monitor, and I have to bait it back onto the desktop with virtual cheese. I don't think there is a way to flash the graphics card for that.
Any media player must either use a decoder or bitstream. If the player has no built-in codec for the particular format, you must supply one such as LAV Filters and dtsdecoder.dll for TrueHD and DTS-HD MA. All other codecs are usually built-in. Bitstreaming does not require a codec.

I have a single 780 Ti and the boot display order is DisplayPort > HDMI > DVI-D. Try rearranging the cables between your cards. Apart from that, if the displays are cloned then the extended desktop will disappear and there will be no dual monitor issues inside Windows. You can still colour calibrate the combined Generic PnP Monitor and it will work properly with all the features of the original monitor such as 3D and G-Sync.

You should first try the free solution of overriding the HDMI EDID to 2560x1440@30Hz. This will let you clone your displays.

There is another expensive solution: The Emotiva XMC-1. It has a USB cable which just shows up as an 8-channel playback device in Windows. This is the ultimate solution.

There is also this thing: http://www.aes-hdmi.com/usb-2h.html

Last edited by KurianOfBorg; 10-28-2014 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 10-29-2014, 03:03 PM
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I have already tried my HDAV1.3 Deluxe with the analog outs directly to a power amp and the sound was fantastic. I am now going to try the HTPC connected to my receiver via HDMI. Question; should i notice better sound from the HDAV1.3 Deluxe HDMI (video out via DVI to HDMI cable from either graphics adapter to the HDAV card) out vs HDMI out from either using the primary HDMI out from the AMD APU (A8-5600), or as i have it configured, the primary graphics adapter is an AMD HD6670 (AMD 'Dual Graphics' aka 'Crossfire X)....or will it probably be a 'no difference' situation?
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Old 10-29-2014, 03:25 PM
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It depends. The DACs in the HDAV may be better than those in your receiver or not. The dedicated amp probably has better amps than your receiver, depending.
As far as HDMI vs HDMI difference will be zip.
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Old 10-29-2014, 03:52 PM
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I have already tried my HDAV1.3 Deluxe with the analog outs directly to a power amp and the sound was fantastic. I am now going to try the HTPC connected to my receiver via HDMI. Question; should i notice better sound from the HDAV1.3 Deluxe HDMI (video out via DVI to HDMI cable from either graphics adapter to the HDAV card) out vs HDMI out from either using the primary HDMI out from the AMD APU (A8-5600), or as i have it configured, the primary graphics adapter is an AMD HD6670 (AMD 'Dual Graphics' aka 'Crossfire X)....or will it probably be a 'no difference' situation?

You will only get OpenAL and EAX if you use the sound cards' HDMI out.
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Old 10-29-2014, 04:34 PM
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....i guess the saying; 'bits is bits' would apply here.....
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Old 10-29-2014, 05:36 PM
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HDAV died

Hey Guys,

It's been a while since I was on here last, but I've had both the HDAv 1.3(PCI-e) and slim(PCI) cards and both have died on me.
I've baked them a few times to get them back, but the pci-e one hangs the whole pc if it's connected, and the slim just won't detect anymore.
I just bought a new pc to run my home theatre (Viera58" plasma, Onkyo 805-SR, dali concept 8's and gale 50/500 series surrounds) and was wondering if the new onboard video/audio is updated enough to use instead of the hdav?
Do the new HD onboard audio chips bitstream HD formats?
Is it better to use HDMI, or as I've been reading in this topic, should I get an analog card and use the analog inputs on the onkyo to get better sound?

Or is it worth getting another $220 HDAV slim card to replace the old ones?
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Old 10-29-2014, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by evilstuie View Post
Hey Guys,

was wondering if the new onboard video/audio is updated enough to use instead of the hdav?
Do the new HD onboard audio chips bitstream HD formats?
Is it better to use HDMI, or as I've been reading in this topic, should I get an analog card and use the analog inputs on the onkyo to get better sound?

Or is it worth getting another $220 HDAV slim card to replace the old ones?
Yes
Yes
Yes, since you have HDMI. I'm going straight out from the Xonar to an amp via RCA.
No.
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Old 10-29-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruiner View Post
Yes
Yes
Yes, since you have HDMI. I'm going straight out from the Xonar to an amp via RCA.
No.
Wow, thanks for the quick reply
Does that mean there's no real difference between soundcards /chips if using hdmi to output?
The sound is pretty fanastic in most things, but the volume is a lot lower on the onboard than I used to have with the xonar. Amp used to be set at -30dB and had good volume, now it needs -15dB for the same level, and as its getting towards summer here in Oz, I'm alittle worried about the amp overheating.
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Old 10-29-2014, 06:15 PM
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Wow, thanks for the quick reply
Does that mean there's no real difference between soundcards /chips if using hdmi to output?
.
Probably not, unless the DAC in your receiver is awful, in which case the amps probably are too so the DAC probalby doesn't matter.
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Old 10-29-2014, 06:22 PM
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I have already tried my HDAV1.3 Deluxe with the analog outs directly to a power amp and the sound was fantastic. I am now going to try the HTPC connected to my receiver via HDMI. Question; should i notice better sound from the HDAV1.3 Deluxe HDMI (video out via DVI to HDMI cable from either graphics adapter to the HDAV card) out vs HDMI out from either using the primary HDMI out from the AMD APU (A8-5600), or as i have it configured, the primary graphics adapter is an AMD HD6670 (AMD 'Dual Graphics' aka 'Crossfire X)....or will it probably be a 'no difference' situation?
I have the HDAV1.3 Slim in my old PC with a Radeon HD4670 AGP HDMI card (no AGP cards can bitstream TrueHD/DTS MA, hence the Xonar). Anyway, I'm assuming your Deluxe will work the same as the Slim via HDMI. Bitstreaming TrueHD/DTS MA and lossy DD/DTS will be no problem if you use TotalMedia Theatre, but, all other formats will depend on how you set up the Xonar control panel. That is, if you set up 192 KHz 7.1 channel with the Xonar control panel all PCM sources, including stereo, will be 192 KHz 7.1 channel.

There is a work-around for stereo music. You set your music player's sound device to Xonar HDAV1.3 S/PDIF WASAPI (even though you're really using HDMI) and then 44.1, 48, 96, and 192 KHz stereo will be bit-perfect. 88.2 gets resampled to 96 and 176.4 gets resampled to 192 KHz. While that isn't ideal to my ears the resampling is totally transparent.

That being said I would save myself the headache and just use your GPU or APU. In my more modern PCs I just use HDMI via Intel HD4600 integrated graphics and everything is bit-perfect, regardless of codec and/or channels.

Last edited by Slosh; 10-29-2014 at 06:28 PM.
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