*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 05:23 AM
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tom cierzo,

I feel you pain, I too bought a very expensive 1.1 hdmi receiver and will not even consider upgrading when the hardware is perfectly capable of delivering bit for bit even the best hd encoded formats.

I do not care if they downsample audio for AACS content. I have anydvd hd and can strip the aacs protection on the fly. My beef with the software players is that:
- they downsample non-aacs content
- they do not use exclusive mode thus molesting the sound either themselves or via windows or both

If TMT had the balls to make their player use exclusive mode & not touch the audio for non-aacs content then everyone with an hdmi mlpcm equipped htpc would have what the best blu-ray player (ps3) has, all hd codecs decoded to bit perfect lpcm.
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post #992 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 05:42 AM
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I here what you are saying chaps but lets not clog this thread with stuff we all have said or read before elsewhere. Thanks

Adam
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post #993 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 08:45 AM
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Hi guys,

I posted this on the official Asus forum - would this agree with other people's viewpoints? If you have similar (or different!) experiences with the Asus version of TMT it might be helpful to let Asus know.

"Seeing as Asus have invited feedback on the "preview" edition of TMT...

At the mo I only have HD disks with LPCM, normal Dolby or TrueHD soundtracks (waiting on one with MA to arrive). With TrueHD I get no sound, no matter what I do (i.e., unlike the retail/trial version of TMT from Arcsoft, it won't transcode it internally). Surely the TrueHD specs are set up so that a legacy stream can be output anyway, so why nothing?
And what's the deal with it being 15 days only? Are we expecting a new version within 15 days??? Will we have to uninstall and reinstall?
Trying to update either the OEM or preview TMT with the new patch from Arcsoft won't work. And the s/n on the CD will not allow me to register with Arcsoft.
Gah! I bought this card to rectify the failings of an Asus g35 board. With the Xonar the G35 was still stuttering, so I've just got an Asus 8600 GPU which fixes *that*, but still no sound at all with certain disks. PLEASE get this sorted ASAP."

Greg
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post #994 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 09:08 AM
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So the Asus doesn't some with a full retail version of TMT?
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post #995 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 09:25 AM
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I haven't seen a product with so much positive hype turn in to such a disaster so quickly in quite a while.

There was a line of people waiting to buy this (in the U.S. at least) to hopefully finally solve the bitstreaming issues for HTPC's.

In a matter of less than 2 weeks, this card has gone from desired add-on to plagued apparent piece of junk. They don't have Vista drivers. They don't support bitstreaming. The analog performance is sub-par. What could they possibly be thinking?

Bottom line is I'm sure that many many people who were going to buy this card right away will now be waiting for an alternative, or for a long while until they see it's working right.

And we'll be lucky to see this thing launched in the U.S. before year-end.

Major f-up, Asus...

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #996 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphyne View Post

So the Asus doesn't some with a full retail version of TMT?

Yes it does but it is a different version from the retail one. I guess there is a parallel development going on. Asus is working on their version while Arcsoft works on theirs. Version numbers are also a bit different so that you can tell them apart.

The Asus version is still in beta but that has nothing to do with Arcsoft since the Xonar has not been officially launched worldwide.
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post #997 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 09:30 AM
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Whoa! wait- I thought it worked and the only problems were driver problems with Dolby TrueHD and display rate conversion?
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post #998 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

I haven't seen a product with so much positive hype turn in to such a disaster so quickly in quite a while.

There was a line of people waiting to buy this (in the U.S. at least) to hopefully finally solve the bitstreaming issues for HTPC's.

In a matter of less than 2 weeks, this card has gone from desired add-on to plagued apparent piece of junk. They don't have Vista drivers. They don't support bitstreaming. The analog performance is sub-par. What could they possibly be thinking?

Bottom line is I'm sure that many many people who were going to buy this card right away will now be waiting for an alternative, or for a long while until they see it's working right.

And we'll be lucky to see this thing launched in the U.S. before year-end.

Major f-up, Asus...

Well I think that's why it hasn't launched in the US yet, and why you haven't seen any of the major reveiw sites touch it yet.

Granted having a card that was due in summer not seeing US soil until mid to late October (maybe november?) is really bad. But I'm not going to judge the quality of the product until it is actually launched in the US.

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post #999 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Whoa! wait- I thought it worked and the only problems were driver problems with Dolby TrueHD and display rate conversion?

Not supporting 24p is one of many huge issues - I mean, bitstreaming HD audio is pretty much only relevant for 24p material. And just read this thread - it's a disaster on multiple issues.

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #1000 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Well I think that's why it hasn't launched in the US yet, and why you haven't seen any of the major reveiw sites touch it yet.

Granted having a card that was due in summer not seeing US soil until mid to late October (maybe november?) is really bad. But I'm not going to judge the quality of the product until it is actually launched in the US.

Right. It was announced in June as imminent. A semi-official date of 9/10 was released. And the card is now available in at least a couple of countries.

And reviews are out there. And they are all pretty lame. Coupled with the specific experience from this board, which usually is on the top of the google search results for this card.

It's a disaster for Asus.

So when is the Auzen audio card coming out?

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #1001 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 09:59 AM
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You guys need to chill out, the only mistake Asus has made is releasing it too soon in Taiwan and UK. Why anyone in the US has the arse-ache is beyond me (appart from the delay). You haven't parted with any cash, you haven't wasted any time getting it to work, you haven't spent hours on forums answering the same questions over and over again... I have and you don't see me bitching about it

The software just isn't ready yet. When it is and it does go on sale you can all benefit from what we have had to endure. This is a good (if expensive) product and certainly not a 'disaster'.

For those who only seem to read the last page:
  • True HD doesn't work
  • Bitstream works in XP, (sometimes)
  • LPCM is Downsampled (bug in TMT)
  • Analogue is Downsampled (bug in TMT)
  • The analogue reviews form elite bastards show a 'marginal' difference in performance between the HDAV, Prelude and D2
  • 24p passthrough doesn't work

When the new drivers and software are perfected I expect all the above to work and if that means I have to wait a few weeks, so be it.

Adam
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post #1002 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 10:09 AM
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Well, ok. I am sitting on Powerdvd 7.3 right now and do not intend on wasting my cash on PDVD 8 if the Asus card comes with a reall version of TMT. Thanks.
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post #1003 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 10:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

So when is the Auzen audio card coming out?

They canceled the promised HDMI add on daughter card. They waited until after quite a few people bought the first card in anticipation of the daughter card, though.

I have heard rumor of another card to be released, a discrete card. With their recent track record, I would not count on it actually existing.

And then you have to use the "we think all the HD-DVD's in the world disintegrated when they lost the format war" PDVD software.
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post #1004 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphyne View Post

Well, ok. I am sitting on Powerdvd 7.3 right now and do not intend on wasting my cash on PDVD 8 if the Asus card comes with a reall version of TMT. Thanks.

Powerdvd 7.3 works fine with it btw, just doesn't bitstream or give an hdmi option (which I think it did with my onboard g35?)

The TMT it ships with is a full version alright, but an OEM one. As I state, Arcsoft updates are incompatible with it as of now.
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post #1005 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephster View Post

Powerdvd 7.3 works fine with it btw, just doesn't bitstream or give an hdmi option (which I think it did with my onboard g35?)

The TMT it ships with is a full version alright, but an OEM one. As I state, Arcsoft updates are incompatible with it as of now.

Correct on all fronts incl. g35 hdmi option.
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post #1006 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 12:38 PM
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Paul,

I am in a similar situation. My Anthem AVM-30 was supposedly the most upgradable processor on the market four years ago for $2,500K or so (before HDMI was even out) but even today with the $1,500-$2K upgrade to HDMI option it still won't support HDMI 1.3!

My solution is to use the HDAV Deluxe with the analog out that can either be fed in through my processor (5.1) or directly to my amp with some sort of a TBD switch (7.1 would then work). Would an analog solution like this work for you? Does your processor / receiver have at least 5.1 analog inputs? This type of analog in was common for SACD.

DOM
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post #1007 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post


For those who only seem to read the last page:
  • True HD doesn't work
  • Bitstream works in XP, (sometimes)
  • LPCM is Downsampled (bug in TMT)
  • Analogue is Downsampled (bug in TMT)
  • The analogue reviews form elite bastards show a 'marginal' difference in performance between the HDAV, Prelude and D2
  • 24p passthrough doesn't work

When the new drivers and software are perfected I expect all the above to work and if that means I have to wait a few weeks, so be it.

Adam


Well you forgot to mention that Xonar PERMANENTLY touches / process video signal regardless any drivers / software which results in over-bright picture and it CANNOT be switched off! One would think that only if Splendid is turned on then and ONLY then video signal is affected (at least I did) but apparently not! This is the biggest issue for me and I very much doubt that it is going to be fixed! The only hope is maybe new firmware but I really doubt that...
As I wrote earlier I am sooo disappointed...
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post #1008 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

You guys need to chill out, the only mistake Asus has made is releasing it too soon in Taiwan and UK. Why anyone in the US has the arse-ache is beyond me (appart from the delay). You haven't parted with any cash, you haven't wasted any time getting it to work, you haven't spent hours on forums answering the same questions over and over again... I have and you don't see me bitching about it

The software just isn't ready yet. When it is and it does go on sale you can all benefit from what we have had to endure. This is a good (if expensive) product and certainly not a 'disaster'.

For those who only seem to read the last page:
  • True HD doesn't work
  • Bitstream works in XP, (sometimes)
  • LPCM is Downsampled (bug in TMT)
  • Analogue is Downsampled (bug in TMT)
  • The analogue reviews form elite bastards show a 'marginal' difference in performance between the HDAV, Prelude and D2
  • 24p passthrough doesn't work

When the new drivers and software are perfected I expect all the above to work and if that means I have to wait a few weeks, so be it.

Adam


I agree whole heartedly with you adam on those points apart from the one highlighted, when i had the Xonar working on XP it performed perfect with no dropouts or loss or resync on signal this of course was tested with my Denon 3808. The people having problems with the bitstream including yourself all appear to have Onkyo amps which are problematic with HDMI handshake at the best of times.

My only main quibble at present is the lack of Vista Bitstreaming and the loss of 24hz resolution when these are solved i shall be very happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB (E-Work) View Post

Well you forgot to mention that Xonar PERMANENTLY touches / process video signal regardless any drivers / software which results in over-bright picture and it CANNOT be switched off! One would think that only if Splendid is turned on then and ONLY then video signal is affected (at least I did) but apparently not! This is the biggest issue for me and I very much doubt that it is going to be fixed! The only hope is maybe new firmware but I really doubt that...
As I wrote earlier I am sooo disappointed...

This is easily fixed by re-adjusting your Plasma,LCD,Projector settings annoying at first but when calibrated again is fine.
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post #1009 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Digi247 View Post

I agree whole heartedly with you adam on those points apart from the one highlighted, when i had the Xonar working on XP it performed perfect with no dropouts or loss or resync on signal this of course was tested with my Denon 3808. The people having problems with the bitstream including yourself all appear to have Onkyo amps which are problematic with HDMI handshake at the best of times.

I had another scrap with the HDAV and ended up having to Bitch-slap the Onkyo to get things working again.

It seems I had at some point changed the HDMI Resolution output to 'Auto' rather than 'through' which I have historically always been using. I was pretty sure it was an HDMI handshake issue so this was the first place I looked. I also disabled the analogue inputs on my HTPC source on the Onkyo menus as for some reason the Onkyo was displaying 'Analogue Multichannel' when i tried to Bitstream. I cannot say for sure which aetting was the culprit but it works fine now.

The Audio dropouts I have experienced so far were in Vista, not XP so it may still be a software issue or even my Motherboard HDMI drivers.

Nice having it working again though

Adam
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post #1010 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 02:15 PM
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I must admit I didn't see any evidence of the HDAV altering the Video and certainly not making it brighter. What I did notice though is when I was getting the handshake issues the display kept losing it's picture memory settings and defaulted to a very bright setting.

Probably unrelated to what Johnny-B was commenting on but it did catch me out at first.

Adam
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post #1011 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 02:21 PM
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For anyone having issues playing back Bitstream in XP, I noticed the settings on your Receiver can have an affect.

After a successful initial period I seemed to lose sound altogether and couldn't get the Onkyo to correctly reset it's HDMI handshake.

I checked the Setup menu and changed the HDMI output resolution back to 'through' rather than 'auto' which I must have changed at some point. Also during the period when I could get no audio the Receiver was displaying 'Analogue Multichannel Direct' rather than HDMI. Although I don't have any analogue connections on the HTPC anymore I had been playing with my Xonar D2 recently and had left a multichannel analogue input setting on the HTPC source menu. After disabling this and the resolution change I made above everything seems to work ok.

The chances of anyone else having this exact issue is probably remote but I thought I would share as it does indicate some problems are not necessarily the cause of the HDAV.

Adam
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post #1012 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

I had another scrap with the HDAV and ended up having to Bitch-slap the Onkyo to get things working again.

It seems I had at some point changed the HDMI Resolution output to 'Auto' rather than 'through' which I have historically always been using. I was pretty sure it was an HDMI handshake issue so this was the first place I looked. I also disabled the analogue inputs on my HTPC source on the Onkyo menus as for some reason the Onkyo was displaying 'Analogue Multichannel' when i tried to Bitstream. I cannot say for sure which aetting was the culprit but it works fine now.

The Audio dropouts I have experienced so far were in Vista, not XP so it may still be a software issue or even my Motherboard HDMI drivers.

Nice having it working again though

Adam

Glad you got it sorted adam its great when it's working 99%
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post #1013 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB (E-Work) View Post

Well you forgot to mention that Xonar PERMANENTLY touches / process video signal regardless any drivers / software which results in over-bright picture and it CANNOT be switched off! One would think that only if Splendid is turned on then and ONLY then video signal is affected (at least I did) but apparently not! This is the biggest issue for me and I very much doubt that it is going to be fixed! The only hope is maybe new firmware but I really doubt that...
As I wrote earlier I am sooo disappointed...

Where are you getting that it will touch it regardless of drivers or software?

Depending on how it's designed it could easily be turned off correctly through drivers/software -- just because the current drivers/software don't doesn't mean anything, especially considering the slew of audio related bugs that need fixing. I haven't seen anything that says this is an permanent problem.
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post #1014 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

For anyone having issues playing back Bitstream in XP, I noticed the settings on your Receiver can have an affect.

After a successful initial period I seemed to lose sound altogether and couldn't get the Onkyo to correctly reset it's HDMI handshake.

I checked the Setup menu and changed the HDMI output resolution back to 'through' rather than 'auto' which I must have changed at some point. Also during the period when I could get no audio the Receiver was displaying 'Analogue Multichannel Direct' rather than HDMI. Although I don't have any analogue connections on the HTPC anymore I had been playing with my Xonar D2 recently and had left a multichannel analogue input setting on the HTPC source menu. After disabling this and the resolution change I made above everything seems to work ok.

The chances of anyone else having this exact issue is probably remote but I thought I would share as it does indicate some problems are not necessarily the cause of the HDAV.

Adam

Hello, I do not know which Onkyo do you have, mine is 805. But yesterday I spent my time thinking and re-checking what I did wrong, because I can't get through multichanel analog [which I have to do now, because of my SB X-Fi, and my xonar going to me via post]. After 3 hours I discovered, that I by mystake press audio select button and my GAME/TV input has two inputs and I was on the second one. That was the reason of no sound. So maybe you've got multichanel analog assigned to your xonar input in Onkyo and switched it too.

Kamil
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post #1015 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digi247 View Post

This is easily fixed by re-adjusting your Plasma,LCD,Projector settings annoying at first but when calibrated again is fine.

I hardly believe what I read Are you serious?? This behaviour of Xonar is absolutely untolerable! It should ONLY put the video signal through (e.g. passthrough) and mix it with audio = nothing else! Only if wanted (e.g. turned on Splendid) then let it do whatever it can. However I do NOT want Asus to mess with video / picture quality in any way! If it does change brightness (which is pretty obvious) who knows what else "magic" it is doing to the video signal... I am perfectly happy with the picture which comes out of my ATI2600 graphics card and my LCD is calibrated to this.
Oh and that advice of yours "what the hell - just lower brightness" is pointles in my case because all my video sources go to my Denon receiver and from this I go via HDMI to my LCD e.g. if I change picture settings it would affect ALL my video inputs.
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post #1016 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

I must admit I didn't see any evidence of the HDAV altering the Video and certainly not making it brighter. What I did notice though is when I was getting the handshake issues the display kept losing it's picture memory settings and defaulted to a very bright setting.

Probably unrelated to what Johnny-B was commenting on but it did catch me out at first.

Adam

Perhaps you watch your TV in brighter room conditions (I have almost complete darkness) and maybe you use stronger backlight on your screen (mine is pretty low / dark) and therefore it is not so noticeable for you...
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post #1017 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

  • The analogue reviews form elite bastards show a 'marginal' difference in

The review shows the analog performance to be alot worse than 'marginal'y less than Auzen Prelude and Xonar D2X. The intermods are much worse, the bandwidth is too narrow (the graph shows the DAC reconstruction filter design to be sloppy), and the distortion is bad.

Those of us who use analog are looking for near-audiophile performance. There are some cards that do this, or do this with an opamp and cap replacement. The Xonar HDAV does not approach that level of performance. An opamp change won't fix that bad filter design, either.

Hopefully time brings more players to the market with better performance and more options for everybody. The first one out of the gate is not likely to please everybody.

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post #1018 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fronn View Post

Where are you getting that it will touch it regardless of drivers or software?

Depending on how it's designed it could easily be turned off correctly through drivers/software -- just because the current drivers/software don't doesn't mean anything, especially considering the slew of audio related bugs that need fixing. I haven't seen anything that says this is an permanent problem.

First of all I do have Xonar already therefore it is not matter of "what was said anywhere" but I have my own experience.
As I wrote earlier the overbright picture is coming from Xonar since the very first moment I installed it into my PC and connected it to my LCD. In XP Pro SP3 (the only system I tried) it happened even before I installed Splendid drivers (I used only beta drivers / software from the Asus website). I though OK once I install Splendid I will turn it off. However to my big surprise I realised it was NOT turned on at all!
And why do I think it is happening regardless drivers / software? Because again as I wrote already before the picture is overbright even in motherboard's BIOS / during booting sequence and these have nothing to do with Xonar drivers at all! It is simply overbright permanently!
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post #1019 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

I haven't seen a product with so much positive hype turn in to such a disaster so quickly in quite a while.

There was a line of people waiting to buy this (in the U.S. at least) to hopefully finally solve the bitstreaming issues for HTPC's.

In a matter of less than 2 weeks, this card has gone from desired add-on to plagued apparent piece of junk. They don't have Vista drivers. They don't support bitstreaming. The analog performance is sub-par. What could they possibly be thinking?

Bottom line is I'm sure that many many people who were going to buy this card right away will now be waiting for an alternative, or for a long while until they see it's working right.

And we'll be lucky to see this thing launched in the U.S. before year-end.

Major f-up, Asus...

I'm one of those who eagerly waited to get this card in order to get HD sound via analog from my pc to my non-HDMI capable pre/pro. In oreder to spend this kind of money for the card and it's daughter card it has be darn good. I have not seen anything that is positive for my use.

I am no longer getting one until they answer a whole lot of questions. I am now looking at the upcoming Sony stand alone Blue Ray player with analog out. No driver issues, no compatibility problems and all for about $150 more than I would spend on the Deluxe card which may or may not work for me.

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post #1020 of 9541 Old 09-23-2008, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

And then you have to use the "we think all the HD-DVD's in the world disintegrated when they lost the format war" PDVD software.

I trash PDVD for just that reason, there are still owners of HD DVD titles that need something to play them. Hopefully TMT will keep support us this.
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