*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 9551 Old 08-31-2008, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rkgriffin View Post

Yeah it really looks like I will have to start converting all of my Blu-ray folders over to .iso and pick up a copy of Virtual Clonedrive. What is everyone using to make iso's?

I have only used TMT up til now, doesn't PDVD already require you to use .iso?

Yep
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post #242 of 9551 Old 08-31-2008, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by myAV View Post


No sir, I am not a native English speaker. Japanese is my first language But I spent a couple of years in the US in the 90s. I speak and write fluent Chinese.

You write English fluently as well! Thanks for all the help in English!
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post #243 of 9551 Old 08-31-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

ImgBurn is what we used to use, but it's old and unfashionable now.

AnyDVD HD now rips right to ISO, with or without protection removed. That's preferred, although newer and not as tested.

CloneCD is preferred over ImgBurn now, and has been for a while. ImgBurn adds extra space to some ISO's, where CloneCD doesn't.

Anyway, AnyDVD HD is the way to go for now.

Same with mounting the ISO's. Daemon Tools used to be good, but they keep screwing things up. The free Virtual Clone Drive is much much better (and faster) for mounting ISO's. And you can mimic DT for any program that has built-in support (like MediaPortal) by just writing a little windows script file.

I was using ImgBurn and Daemon Tools until AnyDVD HD started letting you burn iso's. Now I use it to make my iso file. Was wondering about Virtual Clone Drive - will it interface with MyMovies and VMC to automatically mount like Daemon Tools does? Does it reguire a script file or something? If so, could you point me to a link or site that I could find the script?

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post #244 of 9551 Old 08-31-2008, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

I was using ImgBurn and Daemon Tools until AnyDVD HD started letting you burn iso's. Now I use it to make my iso file. Was wondering about Virtual Clone Drive - will it interface with MyMovies and VMC to automatically mount like Daemon Tools does? Does it reguire a script file or something? If so, could you point me to a link or site that I could find the script?

Just a simple windows script file that takes the parameters and mounts using VCD. Extremely straight forward.

MY script does a ton of other stuff, like switch resolutions based on the path (all my HD files/iso's are in a different directory tree), and it launches TMT (so I don't have to set MediaPortal to use an external player just for ISO's and ruin the internal player for HD files).

Anyway, just to mimic the mount process is trivial, as all you're doing is calling VCD in the script.

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post #245 of 9551 Old 08-31-2008, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Just a simple windows script file that takes the parameters and mounts using VCD. Extremely straight forward.

MY script does a ton of other stuff, like switch resolutions based on the path (all my HD files/iso's are in a different directory tree), and it launches TMT (so I don't have to set MediaPortal to use an external player just for ISO's and ruin the internal player for HD files).

Anyway, just to mimic the mount process is trivial, as all you're doing is calling VCD in the script.

Thanks I am sure I can handle that. If TMT does really kill the playing form file folders and arcsoft support isn't able to solve the problems I am having playing BD/HD from disc/iso then I won't be buying the ASUS card. Currently the only way to have TMT playback BD/HD movies in my system is from ripped folders (opened ticket w/arcsoft support). Alternatively I can use PDVD8 to playback from disc/iso for BD

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post #246 of 9551 Old 08-31-2008, 02:58 PM
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So myAV... how is the sound quality with normal CD audio. Can you run some RightMark benchmarks and post the resulting images?

-Thanks a bunch

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post #247 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Has anyone ever done a blind comparison between say the 4800 series (LPCM downconverted) and a set-top player (Pany BD50) and been able to tell the difference between them?

Or better yet, blind test between PC playing the native BD (downsampled) and a rip in another player (not downsampled)?

I have done the following comparisons.

Nvidia 8300 LPCM ( downsampled) vs PS3 = No noticeable difference at same volume level.
Pioneer LX80 standalone (bitstream) vs PS3 = Huge bass difference(same volume). Pioneer is the clear winner here.
Pioneer LX80 standalone ( bitstream) vs Xonar 1.3 = No difference (same volume)
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post #248 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 03:04 AM
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myAV,

First off, thank you so much for your early info on the HDAV 1.3 - it's really appreciated!

My question is - most of the media I'll be using the card for will simply be mkv files with 5.1/7.1 LPCM audio. Do you know whether the HDAV 1.3 will still pass this data out via HDMI without any issues - I won't be using TMT as the software player, and my OS is XP.

Again, any info you can provide is appreciated!!

Cheers
Ross
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post #249 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 04:51 AM
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hei myAV, received my question?!
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post #250 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myAV View Post

I have done the following comparisons.

Nvidia 8300 LPCM ( downsampled) vs PS3 = No noticeable difference at same volume level.
Pioneer LX80 standalone (bitstream) vs PS3 = Huge bass difference(same volume). Pioneer is the clear winner here.
Pioneer LX80 standalone ( bitstream) vs Xonar 1.3 = No difference (same volume)

That makes perfect sense and it is good to get it confirmed.
Do you know what the power draw is? I am curious why this board needs an external power connector?

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post #251 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myAV View Post

I have done the following comparisons.

Nvidia 8300 LPCM ( downsampled) vs PS3 = No noticeable difference at same volume level.
Pioneer LX80 standalone (bitstream) vs PS3 = Huge bass difference(same volume). Pioneer is the clear winner here.
Pioneer LX80 standalone ( bitstream) vs Xonar 1.3 = No difference (same volume)

Wait a minute! Why does the PS3 have significant Bass Loss? I would expect everything to sound the same?

When you say "same volume" do you mean that you are showing the same Db level on the receiver or are you actually measuring the volume with an SPL? If you are not using an SPL then the comparison is not valid.
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post #252 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Wait a minute! Why does the PS3 have significant Bass Loss? I would expect everything to sound the same?

When you say "same volume" do you mean that you are showing the same Db level on the receiver or are you actually measuring the volume with an SPL? If you are not using an SPL then the comparison is not valid.

I was just thinking the same thing...

On the Onkyo Processor are you listening to the same Audio settings on both LPCM and Bitstream? Obviously Bitstream will use DTS-MA etc but what have you got LPCM set to by default? LPCM, THX etc.?

Thanks.

Adam
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post #253 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

That makes perfect sense and it is good to get it confirmed.
Do you know what the power draw is? I am curious why this board needs an external power connector?

- Rich

Isn't it funny all the folks buying "those other" products that can only do LPCM won't know what they've been missing with what this card can do:bitstream (atleast DTS-MA for now and hopefully D-TruHD when TMT gets to it).
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post #254 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ymarker View Post

Isn't it funny all the folks buying "those other" products that can only do LPCM won't know what they've been missing with what this card can do:bitstream (atleast DTS-MA for now and hopefully D-TruHD when TMT gets to it).

You do realize that LPCM is identical to bitstream? The only issue right now is the bitstripping/downconverting/molesting done by TMT/PDVD. And the reality is it's having minimal effect on the sound, but it does introduce issues like lipsynch and periodic pops.

myAV's post about the PS3 screwing with the bass must be a configuration issue on his side. My PS3, as well as my HTPC, play substantial bass with LPCM.

So no, you won't notice any dramatic sound difference between LPCM (even bitstripped/downconverted) and bitstreaming, on the same setup and configured the same way. You'll just finally be rid of the extra molesting that TMT/PDVD do.

Which is enough to get me to buy this card, even though I already have a G35, G45, and 4850.

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post #255 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ymarker View Post

Isn't it funny all the folks buying "those other" products that can only do LPCM won't know what they've been missing with what this card can do:bitstream (atleast DTS-MA for now and hopefully D-TruHD when TMT gets to it).

What is funny, I don't understand this post?
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post #256 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Wait a minute! Why does the PS3 have significant Bass Loss? I would expect everything to sound the same?

When you say "same volume" do you mean that you are showing the same Db level on the receiver or are you actually measuring the volume with an SPL? If you are not using an SPL then the comparison is not valid.

If the stream is decoded, then there is room for molestation before outputting LPCM. I cannot speak to the actual performance of the PS3 since I do not have one.

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post #257 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

If the stream is decoded, then there is room for molestation before outputting LPCM. I cannot speak to the actual performance of the PS3 since I do not have one.

- Rich

Assuming this is possible (I have nio idea and welcome your explanantion), surely the same molestation is possible when it is decoded to LPCM in the Pre/Pro?

Everything I have read seems to indicate decoding either works or doesn't, one piece of hardware cannot do a 'better' job than another in this respect.

Adam
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post #258 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

If the stream is decoded, then there is room for molestation before outputting LPCM. I cannot speak to the actual performance of the PS3 since I do not have one.

- Rich

It's all digital. Short of the forced 16/48 change, there is no touching of the stream. It's indentical, and always will be. It's just math.

However I agree that I want bitstreaming because I don't trust the software players. But I don't expect any noticable sound difference, even on my higher-end system. Which was my point to the earlier poster. There will be no noticable difference for nearly all people, except they'll now see the lights on their AVR/pre-pro.

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post #259 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

Assuming this is possible (I have nio idea and welcome your explanantion), surely the same molestation is possible when it is decoded to LPCM in the Pre/Pro?

Everything I have read seems to indicate decoding either works or doesn't, one piece of hardware cannot do a 'better' job than another in this respect.

Adam

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

It's all digital. Short of the forced 16/48 change, there is no touching of the stream. It's identical, and always will be. It's just math.

However I agree that I want bit streaming because I don't trust the software players. But I don't expect any noticeable sound difference, even on my higher-end system. Which was my point to the earlier poster. There will be no noticeable difference for nearly all people, except they'll now see the lights on their AVR/pre-pro.

True, molestation can occur anywhere in the digital and analog domain.
My Oppo 980H has to be configured correctly to deliver the original signal unchanged. For example, it outputs SACD as DSD or LPCM they sound very different the Onkyo Pro Preamp. I prefer DSD (bitstream).

I never think it is that simple. In an HTPC, we have a lot of software to go through, so to me, Bitstream is welcome to minimize the possibility for errors.

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post #260 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 12:56 PM
 
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Bitstreaming ensures Windows cannot do anything to the sound and ensures the software player cannot do anything to the sound.

It is true that the AVR could do something to it, but removing two thirds of the items, and most likely all of the items which actually molest the sound, is a good thing.
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post #261 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

ImgBurn is what we used to use, but it's old and unfashionable now.

AnyDVD HD now rips right to ISO, with or without protection removed. That's preferred, although newer and not as tested.

CloneCD is preferred over ImgBurn now, and has been for a while. ImgBurn adds extra space to some ISO's, where CloneCD doesn't.

Anyway, AnyDVD HD is the way to go for now.

Same with mounting the ISO's. Daemon Tools used to be good, but they keep screwing things up. The free Virtual Clone Drive is much much better (and faster) for mounting ISO's. And you can mimic DT for any program that has built-in support (like MediaPortal) by just writing a little windows script file.

I disagree on one point, CloneCD can't be used to make an iso from a bluray folder on a HD, it looks for a DVD folder. I agree with VCD is better then Daemon now, as free and without annoying offers.
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post #262 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 01:44 PM
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It's a setting
http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=17875

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post #263 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arttext View Post

I disagree on one point, CloneCD can't be used to make an iso from a bluray folder on a HD, it looks for a DVD folder. I agree with VCD is better then Daemon now, as free and without annoying offers.

Okay. But no one should need to make a BluRay from a folder structure. Just re-rip from the original disc, which is far better anyway as the folder structure can create issues when turned back into a UDF BD.

Always start from the source when making ISO's.

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post #264 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Okay. But no one should need to make a BluRay from a folder structure. Just re-rip from the original disc, which is far better anyway as the folder structure can create issues when turned back into a UDF BD.

Always start from the source when making ISO's.

While I completely agree with what you are saying that isn't always possible since some of us like to use tsmuxer to remove alot of unneeded extras like multiple HD audio tracks etc.

I am currently ripping my Blu-rays straight to .iso if they only have a True-HD or DTS-MA track because tsmuxer doesn't handle those formats. But for Blu-rays that don't have one of those formats or has it but also has a LPCM track I like to remove all the extras. I have been able to clear up well over 1TB doing this. You can save 15GB+ on certain movies getting rid of extras.

EDIT: It looks like tsmuxer might support DTS-MS and it is only Treu-HD that is down converts to AC3. Going to try a couple tonight.
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post #265 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 07:20 PM
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Any word on when it will be available in the US? We're past August now, and I notice that it's now posted on ASUS sites in both Canada and the US, so it should be coming er, soon?
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post #266 of 9551 Old 09-01-2008, 08:40 PM
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Any word on when it will be available in the US? We're past August now, and I notice that it's now posted on ASUS sites in both Canada and the US, so it should be coming er, soon?

I think it has been posted multiple times in this thread that is won't be out until Sept 10th at the earliest.
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post #267 of 9551 Old 09-02-2008, 01:55 AM
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sorry guys... i'm still in trouble with the analog aspects of this card. do you think it's a good idea to use this card as a pre/pro and connect it analogically to a power amp? in this case everything is done by the software.... is it "hi-end" enough?
myav, can you use your pio lx 80 as a power amp and connect the card via rca, so that you compare the pre/pro job made by the card to what the pio does when it works via hdmi?
thank you
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post #268 of 9551 Old 09-02-2008, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

So myAV... how is the sound quality with normal CD audio. Can you run some RightMark benchmarks and post the resulting images?

-Thanks a bunch

Normal CDs sound almost OK through my setup. But I am afraid that I won't have extra time to do further testing though.
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post #269 of 9551 Old 09-02-2008, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Wait a minute! Why does the PS3 have significant Bass Loss? I would expect everything to sound the same?

When you say "same volume" do you mean that you are showing the same Db level on the receiver or are you actually measuring the volume with an SPL? If you are not using an SPL then the comparison is not valid.

Here is what I did
I ran some comparative scenes from Die hard 4.0 through both the PS3 and Pioneer LX80. I selected a few bass heavy action sequences for the test.

First I ran them through the PS3 with it internally decoding the DTS-HD MA signal and outputting it as LPCM to my Integra 8.8. And then running the same scenes through the LX80 output via bitstream to the integra offered a substantial difference over the LPCM decoded signal from the PS3 in LFE output, dynamics and detail. This was not what I would call a subtle difference but one that was plainly obvious.

I used the same output level on the receiver and just simply switched sources. It didn't simply sound like a difference in volume. The quality of the audio via the LX80 sounded better articulated and distinctly punchier with definitively deeper bass.
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post #270 of 9551 Old 09-02-2008, 03:31 AM
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Does PCM not have a frequency barrier at 30Hz or something like that?

EDIT: no i googled, seems to be at 20Hz
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