Auzentech Home Theater 7.1 HDMI thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1939 Old 02-02-2009, 06:07 PM
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Auzentech X-fi Home Theater HD 7.1 Audio Card
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...pecs-pics.html
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post #362 of 1939 Old 02-02-2009, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super XP View Post

Auzentech X-fi Home Theater HD 7.1 Audio Card
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...pecs-pics.html

Why post this information from October 2008?

- Rich

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post #363 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 04:00 AM
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O.K. guys I may have been mistaken because I now cannot get my HD 4870 to bitstream Dolby TrueHD via my Onkyo which did display TrueHD in red on its display if my memory serves me well.

We knew it wasn't for real... and your memory is okay... you were just remembering that nice wet-dream you had a while back...

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post #364 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Why post this information from October 2008?

- Rich

And for the second time, spammer
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post #365 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super XP View Post

The ASUS card seems to be having a lot of problems according to various forums along with this forum.

The only posts I have seen lately are how much people are enjoying bitstreaming HD audio. I for one am thoroughly enjoying 5.1 192 Khz 24 Bit DD-TrueHD from the Divertimenti disc. And yes I have compared it to the 48 Khz 16 Bit you get from PowerDVD and there is definitely a substantial difference.
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post #366 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Why post this information from October 2008?

- Rich

Because of this quote:
Stay tuned to This HWC channel for further updates
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And for the second time, spammer

Spammer is such a strong unnecessary word to use.
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

The only posts I have seen lately are how much people are enjoying bitstreaming HD audio. I for one am thoroughly enjoying 5.1 192 Khz 24 Bit DD-TrueHD from the Divertimenti disc. And yes I have compared it to the 48 Khz 16 Bit you get from PowerDVD and there is definitely a substantial difference.

I too am enjoying TrueHD and DTS HD MA via HD DVD/BD player.
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post #367 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 06:47 AM
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Remember when the ASUS card came out and for 3 months people were fuming about how crappy it was because it wasn't thoroughly tested?

Do you want that frustration, or would you rather wait a month or two?

My synopsis is the hardware is ready. In fact i bet the hardware has been ready since Nov. Rather the significance is likely with PowerDVD. I bet the HD bitstreaming will be a native feature in PowerDVD 9. Here's another shocker: What if the card doesn't include the software as its own forked cludgey software and all you have to do is upgrade PowerDVD? I don't want to risk the special ASUS TMT software to stay around indefinitely. With constant key invalidations, BD software has to be continually updated (stupid DRM!).

I think it's worth the wait. You can still use the mkv method, but it certainly h as its inconveniences.

The bigger thing I want is to get away from a driver hell-ridden Realtek/ATI driver combo. Every update I've gotten either disables VMC or PowerDVD, with one work and the other not.

So I'll be waiting.
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post #368 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 06:54 AM
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I agree with hceuterpe 100%. In time, both the ASUS/TMT solution and the Auzentech/PDVD solution will probably be great. For now, the ASUS/TMT solution is not great for many people (as much because of TMT's imperfections as the ASUS's). For example, TMT will stutter every few seconds and eventually BSOD on my HTPC (.125, .126, .128, .129-- I've tried them all, clean installs, tried substituting the japanese renderer files, etc. etc. etc.). The TMT image when not stuttering is significantly worse than PDVD (text and high-contrast lines in TMT are noticeably blockier, for example). I appreciate that for some people, ASUS/TMT works perfectly; just not for everyone unfortunately.

While these products are not super expensive, our time (and headache avoidance) is valuable. Let's hope that Auzentech gets it right, more or less, the first time.

-David
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post #369 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by drliu View Post

I agree with hceuterpe 100%. In time, both the ASUS/TMT solution and the Auzentech/PDVD solution will probably be great. For now, the ASUS/TMT solution is not great for many people (as much because of TMT's imperfections as the ASUS's). For example, TMT will stutter every few seconds and eventually BSOD on my HTPC (.125, .126, .128, .129-- I've tried them all, clean installs, tried substituting the japanese renderer files, etc. etc. etc.). The TMT image when not stuttering is significantly worse than PDVD (text and high-contrast lines in TMT are noticeably blockier, for example). I appreciate that for some people, ASUS/TMT works perfectly; just not for everyone unfortunately.

While these products are not super expensive, our time (and headache avoidance) is valuable. Let's hope that Auzentech gets it right, more or less, the first time.

-David

What video card do you use? Did you ever consider that it might be a component other than the ASUS card that is causing you stuttering problems?
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post #370 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

The only posts I have seen lately are how much people are enjoying bitstreaming HD audio. I for one am thoroughly enjoying 5.1 192 Khz 24 Bit DD-TrueHD from the Divertimenti disc. And yes I have compared it to the 48 Khz 16 Bit you get from PowerDVD and there is definitely a substantial difference.

Oh, it's just the placebo effect. There is really no audible difference between 24/192 and 16/48. After all, CDs are 16/44.1 and those are as good as you can possibly get.

[joke]

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post #371 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 01:22 PM
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I'm running 8800GTXs in SLI. But it's not the ASUS card-- it's TMT. Unfortunately the ASUS card currently only works with TMT (I hope someone will correct me here!).

-David
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post #372 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by drliu View Post

I'm running 8800GTXs in SLI. But it's not the ASUS card-- it's TMT. Unfortunately the ASUS card currently only works with TMT (I hope someone will correct me here!).

-David

When I was getting bad stutters in TMT v128 I uninstalled and reinstalled (this was recommended by Arcsoft support). Fixed the bad stutters. Then I had minor stutters, occasionally. In NVidia 3D management I told it 'force vertical sync on'. This fixed the minor stutters. Now 24p MKV or blu-ray is perfect.

Don't know if this applies to you. I use Vista x64.

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post #373 of 1939 Old 02-03-2009, 10:10 PM
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Oh god I have been following this thread since it's conception. I'm jonesin' for benchmarks, availability, bugs, etc. info on this card sooo bad. I've been sitting on a special egg just for this for months! Come on Auzentech! Gimme gimme gimme!

/frustration
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post #374 of 1939 Old 02-04-2009, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Oh, it's just the placebo effect. There is really no audible difference between 24/192 and 16/48. After all, CDs are 16/44.1 and those are as good as you can possibly get.

[joke]

I saw the joke note. Unfortunately, I bet most people won't get it though.
Have you been able to hear the Divertimenti disc in 5.1 192 Khz 24 Bit? It is like no other disc I have ever heard. When you bitstream the DD-TrueHD it is exactly like being there. When you play the same track through PDVD there is excessive static noise that is introduced. The noise is loud enough that my video camera can pick it up. I have meant to post the video of it to show the difference but I have not had a chance to upload it yet.
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post #375 of 1939 Old 02-04-2009, 06:58 AM
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Thanks Lifespeed. I indeed tried uninstalling and reinstalling already, but the variables change quickly as they release new versions and as people report their own homemade fixes. I will try again soon, permuting the usual variable (hardware accel on/off, japanese files, etc. etc.). I'm using XP/SP3, if it matters.

The stuttering I'm getting isn't slight-- it's one-second stutters every 3-4 seconds. Interestingly, the sound seems to be mostly intact during the stutters.

I wonder if Auzentech will release their card first or if I'll figure out how to get TMT working reliably on my HTPC first?

Does the ASUS card work with the current .129 (?) release of TMT?

-David
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post #376 of 1939 Old 02-04-2009, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

I saw the joke note. Unfortunately, I bet most people won't get it though.
Have you been able to hear the Divertimenti disc in 5.1 192 Khz 24 Bit? It is like no other disc I have ever heard. When you bitstream the DD-TrueHD it is exactly like being there. When you play the same track through PDVD there is excessive static noise that is introduced. The noise is loud enough that my video camera can pick it up. I have meant to post the video of it to show the difference but I have not had a chance to upload it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Oh, it's just the placebo effect. There is really no audible difference between 24/192 and 16/48. After all, CDs are 16/44.1 and those are as good as you can possibly get.

[joke]

Glad I have tin ears... I will of course verify that my ears are tin if I can ever get one of these solutions but at the present time I am not willing to jump in given how volatile this market is at present.

I would be interested in the Auzentech card were it not for the price and the uncertainty regarding the trial/full version of PDVD. I really do not want to pay much more than $150 for a solution. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but spend much more and you are within spitting distance of the Oppo universal player which will play SACDs, DVD-As and will just work... All of which goes against every fiber of my inner moron...

If the two cards (ASUS and Auzen) are the same price, come with a full version of their respective players, and work equally well then I would tend to go for the Auzen as it has the Creative DSP which is good for games. This gives it an additional value above and beyond the core functionality and thus it can be used in other machines or, if I were so inclined, for playing games on my HTPC. At present this is not happening but the future may bring me to a different way of thinking.

"But it's just a flesh wound!"
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post #377 of 1939 Old 02-04-2009, 08:38 AM
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Auzentech & Asus has no choice but to release their cards with full software player compatibility support. These cards are advertized to perform what is being advertized and that is what lead the buyer to buy the product.
If they do not meet the expectations of which the sound cards were advertized/based on in the first place, then they are in a Material breach of contract.
The constitution states the buyer has the right to for a complete refund regardless whether that product can or cannot be returned so long as the product is not performing as advertized.
So it only makes logical sense that the full retail version of Power DVD HD or whatever they decide on is included in the package.
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post #378 of 1939 Old 02-04-2009, 10:09 AM
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Auzentech & Asus has no choice but to release their cards with full software player compatibility support. These cards are advertized to perform what is being advertized and that is what lead the buyer to buy the product.
If they do not meet the expectations of which the sound cards were advertized/based on in the first place, then they are in a Material breach of contract.
The constitution states the buyer has the right to for a complete refund regardless whether that product can or cannot be returned so long as the product is not performing as advertized.
So it only makes logical sense that the full retail version of Power DVD HD or whatever they decide on is included in the package.

I see... any idea why Auzen has only stated to date AFAIK that they will be including a trial version of PDVD? In fact, looking at the beginning of your statement it does not follow that the latter half of your statement is valid. They might be contractually obligated to provide compatibility and support for the retail version but that in no way means they have to provide you with the full retail version. I know of no statements from either of them that commit them to providing full retail versions of their partner software.

As it stands, and again AFAIK, Asus is giving a proprietary version of TMT that is not currently comparable to the retail version (notably support for HDDVD and VMC integration is lacking) and Auzen speaks only of a trial version of PDVD. We have no data that I am aware of to the effect that either of these situations will change although it is likely ASUS will remedy one or both of those problems on their end. Auzen has, to the best of my knowledge, never made any statement about including a full retail package of PDVD.

From the Auzen website I determine that they are still stating they will ship only a trial version of PDVD:

Software
Installation CD
Power DVD Trial

This seems to contradict the latter half of your statement above. In my case, were this to hold true for the shipping product, it would completely rule out any chance I would buy the product. In the case of ASUS, unless they return to the VMC integration, I would be hesitant to buy the product unless the price were to be reduced. Call me cheap but I place the value of the sound card itself around $75 to $100 at the most no matter what it does. This may be well under what others value it at but we each have our own value system - we often refer to this as 'the free market' insofar as we decide for ourselves what something is worth and if we can find it for that price we buy it otherwise we do not.

I sure hope that Auzen gets their product out - presumably with PDVD9 from what I can surmise - with the full retail version included and hopefully at a street price substantially lower than currently advertised. For me they have about a $25 advantage on the ASUS card all else being equal and this advantage is due to the presence of the X-FI DSP. Unlike many others I am actually pretty happy with Creative aside from their cliff-like warranty behavior - but I now know this and thus am an informed consumer so cannot complain about it.

Oh, and FWIW I never saw any consumer protection clauses in the US constitution...

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post #379 of 1939 Old 02-04-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

I saw the joke note. Unfortunately, I bet most people won't get it though.
Have you been able to hear the Divertimenti disc in 5.1 192 Khz 24 Bit? It is like no other disc I have ever heard. When you bitstream the DD-TrueHD it is exactly like being there. When you play the same track through PDVD there is excessive static noise that is introduced. The noise is loud enough that my video camera can pick it up. I have meant to post the video of it to show the difference but I have not had a chance to upload it yet.

I have not heard it. It sounds interesting.

I do have a 24/96 Queen Live in Montreal Blu-Ray that I can play at 16/48 through TMT. I do hear a difference, but it is probably not as dramatic as listening to a string orchestra.

I'll have to try that sometime.

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post #380 of 1939 Old 02-04-2009, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

I have not heard it. It sounds interesting.

I do have a 24/96 Queen Live in Montreal Blu-Ray that I can play at 16/48 through TMT. I do hear a difference, but it is probably not as dramatic as listening to a string orchestra.

I'll have to try that sometime.

I have a feeling you will be trying it soon!
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post #381 of 1939 Old 02-05-2009, 01:17 AM
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I see... any idea why Auzen has only stated to date AFAIK that they will be including a trial version of PDVD? In fact, looking at the beginning of your statement it does not follow that the latter half of your statement is valid. They might be contractually obligated to provide compatibility and support for the retail version but that in no way means they have to provide you with the full retail version. I know of no statements from either of them that commit them to providing full retail versions of their partner software.

As it stands, and again AFAIK, Asus is giving a proprietary version of TMT that is not currently comparable to the retail version (notably support for HDDVD and VMC integration is lacking) and Auzen speaks only of a trial version of PDVD. We have no data that I am aware of to the effect that either of these situations will change although it is likely ASUS will remedy one or both of those problems on their end. Auzen has, to the best of my knowledge, never made any statement about including a full retail package of PDVD.

From the Auzen website I determine that they are still stating they will ship only a trial version of PDVD:

Software
Installation CD
Power DVD Trial

This seems to contradict the latter half of your statement above. In my case, were this to hold true for the shipping product, it would completely rule out any chance I would buy the product. In the case of ASUS, unless they return to the VMC integration, I would be hesitant to buy the product unless the price were to be reduced. Call me cheap but I place the value of the sound card itself around $75 to $100 at the most no matter what it does. This may be well under what others value it at but we each have our own value system - we often refer to this as 'the free market' insofar as we decide for ourselves what something is worth and if we can find it for that price we buy it otherwise we do not.

I sure hope that Auzen gets their product out - presumably with PDVD9 from what I can surmise - with the full retail version included and hopefully at a street price substantially lower than currently advertised. For me they have about a $25 advantage on the ASUS card all else being equal and this advantage is due to the presence of the X-FI DSP. Unlike many others I am actually pretty happy with Creative aside from their cliff-like warranty behavior - but I now know this and thus am an informed consumer so cannot complain about it.

Oh, and FWIW I never saw any consumer protection clauses in the US constitution...

Sale of Goods Legislation
"if a product is not fit for the purpose for which it was sold, you're entitled to a full refund."

This alone can open a can of worms. Remember ATI and NVIDIA got charged way back for 1) price fixing graphics cards and 2) lack of software to make sure the hardware worked 100%
I get bitter everytime I see companies trying to rip people off. Hopefully you won't need PowerDVD if they plan on making you buy into it. I already have PowerDVD HD 7.0 with full TrueHD, DTS HD MA, HD DVD and Blu-Ray support, but the upgrade right now is not worth it until this HDMI sound card comes out and does what it's intended to do.
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post #382 of 1939 Old 02-05-2009, 06:39 AM
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Sale of Goods Legislation
"if a product is not fit for the purpose for which it was sold, you're entitled to a full refund."

This alone can open a can of worms. Remember ATI and NVIDIA got charged way back for 1) price fixing graphics cards and 2) lack of software to make sure the hardware worked 100%
I get bitter everytime I see companies trying to rip people off. Hopefully you won't need PowerDVD if they plan on making you buy into it. I already have PowerDVD HD 7.0 with full TrueHD, DTS HD MA, HD DVD and Blu-Ray support, but the upgrade right now is not worth it until this HDMI sound card comes out and does what it's intended to do.


Reading the facts behind this law it is clear that it will not be a problem for either of these vendors. The ASUS card does what it is said to do - in fact, they have fixed a few things that they did not even promise to deliver - and it is highly unlikely that Auzen will have such problems that the law would be applicable.

http://www.consumerline.org/legislat...=Sale+of+Goods

Why get bitter over these cards let alone anything else? You can't do anything about companies that actually rip people off and in this case no one is getting ripped off anyway. ASUS made a mistake releasing the card too early but has shown every sign of working hard to remedy their mistakes - I would not be the least bit surprised to see the VMC integration restored and even the HDDVD support too. Auzen has yet to do anything beyond make some scheduling promises they did not keep. You seem to be overreacting here.

Read the law carefully. It makes it very clear that if you have knowledge of the limitations of the product before you buy then you have nothing to complain about should you choose to buy the product. Anyone reading these forums has no excuse should they choose to buy the product.

As for ATI and NVidia, price-fixing violates an entirely different set of laws. Not only that, since it was settled out of court there is no absolute data that they did so in the first place.

You can buy or not buy one of these cards as you see fit but there does not appear to be any issue with respect to consumer laws being broken by either vendor.

"But it's just a flesh wound!"
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post #383 of 1939 Old 02-06-2009, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by xgecko View Post

Reading the facts behind this law it is clear that it will not be a problem for either of these vendors. The ASUS card does what it is said to do - in fact, they have fixed a few things that they did not even promise to deliver - and it is highly unlikely that Auzen will have such problems that the law would be applicable.

http://www.consumerline.org/legislat...=Sale+of+Goods

Why get bitter over these cards let alone anything else? You can't do anything about companies that actually rip people off and in this case no one is getting ripped off anyway. ASUS made a mistake releasing the card too early but has shown every sign of working hard to remedy their mistakes - I would not be the least bit surprised to see the VMC integration restored and even the HDDVD support too. Auzen has yet to do anything beyond make some scheduling promises they did not keep. You seem to be overreacting here.

Read the law carefully. It makes it very clear that if you have knowledge of the limitations of the product before you buy then you have nothing to complain about should you choose to buy the product. Anyone reading these forums has no excuse should they choose to buy the product.

As for ATI and NVidia, price-fixing violates an entirely different set of laws. Not only that, since it was settled out of court there is no absolute data that they did so in the first place.

You can buy or not buy one of these cards as you see fit but there does not appear to be any issue with respect to consumer laws being broken by either vendor.

Hey I agree with you 100%. But its companies like these which fuel the underground crack industry by forcing people to buy expensive software to fully utilize the card advertised capabilities.

If you cannot utilize what the card was meant to do then its false advertisement unless they got the small print covering there aris.

In the end both parties should be the happy winner. When anybody buys these sound cards they should if anything at least be given a 1 year free software player to enable those features which were advertised on the box and in there ads.

Just my two cents.

It's really no big deal, where there is a will there is a way. And Windows Media Player would do just as good as those expensive software players.
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post #384 of 1939 Old 02-06-2009, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xgecko View Post

Read the law carefully. It makes it very clear that if you have knowledge of the limitations of the product before you buy then you have nothing to complain about should you choose to buy the product. Anyone reading these forums has no excuse should they choose to buy the product.

It's irrelevant whether you have knowledge of the product or not, this can never be proven. And it shouldn't even be an issue so long as the product performs as per its advertisement.

If the product box had something in writing telling people that a software player may have to be purchased in order to fully utilise the cards potential then its up to the purchaser to decide whether to buy the product or not.

At least the person buying the card is fully briefed before making a purchasing decision.
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post #385 of 1939 Old 02-06-2009, 08:48 PM
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Hey..... any postponements lately ???


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post #386 of 1939 Old 02-07-2009, 12:11 AM
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What do they mean by trial? Are they really going to make you pay $100 or whatever to keep using the product after you bought it for $250?
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post #387 of 1939 Old 02-07-2009, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido04 View Post

What do they mean by trial? Are they really going to make you pay $100 or whatever to keep using the product after you bought it for $250?

I hope not.

PowerDVD 8 only costs around $49.95. What they don't tell you right away is you need to buy a dump load of High Def Plug-ins & codecs to enable all the playback features which can amount to more than $250 when all is said and done.

Here is the PowerDVD 8 extremely misleading info about Blu-Ray playback. The overview states that it supports Blu-Ray playback so the user will buy it and expect to play back Blu-Ray high def. But the Limitations section clearly states "Does not support Blu-ray Disc playback." They are probably talking about the trial version but nevertheless its missleading nonesense like this which confuse people.

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PowerDVD 8
The No.1 Movie Experience on the PC
PowerDVD delivers new dimensions in the way consumers can enjoy their movies. In addition to offering industry-leading movie playback quality in high-definition (HD), PowerDVD now extends the movie experience with an online web service called MoovieLive and offers an innovative and novel concept of remixing your favorite DVD movies for sharing with the world. PowerDVD delivers uncompromising quality for movie playback on the PC. Support for Blu-ray Discs offers a new world of movie features, including seamless disc navigation, Picture-in-Picture support, and movie extras. Widescreen, high-definition output supports the latest HD displays. And with support for 7.1-channel high-definition audio, users can enjoy a true home theater experience via their PC.

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Limitations
30 day working trial.
No DVD-Audio available during the playback of CPPM protected content.
Does not support the playback of CPRM protected content.
Does not support Blu-ray Disc playback.

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Download Detail
Version: 8
File Size: 76 MB
Release Date: 2008-11-05
Category: Try Free
Language: English, Chinese Traditional, Japanese, Spanish, Korean, Chinese Simplified, German, French, Italian

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post #388 of 1939 Old 02-08-2009, 12:38 PM
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Has anyone heard any news on this card (other than it's been delayed until March)?

Will the PowerDVD that comes with it be the only version that works with this card (as was the case with the ASUS/TMT card), or will my PDVD Ultra 8 work?

I'm hoping that our wildly speculative posts between now and March will help pass the time

-David
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post #389 of 1939 Old 02-09-2009, 04:11 PM
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I am sure any software player will be able to play with this card. AnyDVD HD will make sure that happens.
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post #390 of 1939 Old 02-09-2009, 04:28 PM
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Other players may work, but as with the ASUS card, only the "supported player" will bitstream. I'm sure someone will try ALL players after it is available.

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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