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post #1 of 30 Old 09-20-2008, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking at a couple of UPS's. They are both rateded at 1500va. The one from cyberpower weights 5lbs less than the APC. Since packaging is similar, I wonder if the APC has a bigger battery? Should I go with the APC b/c it's bigger?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842102048

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101067
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post #2 of 30 Old 09-20-2008, 09:49 AM
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Check to see if they state for how many minutes each of them can support 1500va.
Each should be about 20 minutes and it is possible that they heavier unit will last longer.
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post #3 of 30 Old 09-20-2008, 11:29 AM
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if you want maximum duration, car batteries are the way to go. Just sting as many as you want in parallel.

The little gelcells in UPS's wear out fast if they are loaded often.
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post #4 of 30 Old 09-20-2008, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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For a bit more I can get this one:

http://www.buyupsonline.com/products...0-rackmount-2u

1400va/950w: more or less the same at the above two, but 70lbs!!! What do you think, would this be a better choice?
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post #5 of 30 Old 09-20-2008, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaomember View Post

1400va/950w: more or less the same at the above two, but 70lbs!!! What do you think, would this be a better choice?

It has roughly double the battery capacity according to the manufacturer's specs.

Personally, I think the first ones you linked are quite limited. I have two Back-UPS RS 1500s with battery packs and each can power my 175W computer + LCD + networking gear for nearly two hours.
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post #6 of 30 Old 09-21-2008, 08:21 AM
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I would not get a Cyberpower again. The one I have doesn't show up as a normal UPS, you have to run their special software to get the shutdown functionality. And for a long time the software would just randomly drop the connection to the UPS.

I've got the BR1500LCD powering my media server+NAS and it will run them for about 11 minutes, but the combo pulls 300+ watts continuously, which is probably a good 2-3x what a normal PC should be pulling.

The question "which UPS" really can't be answered well without knowing what you want to do. If you just want to survive the typical power blip, then almost any UPS will do.

If you're like me, and want your whole equipment rack to run for a couple hours, you need something more drastic, like a BR1500+BR24BP combo.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #7 of 30 Old 09-21-2008, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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so the ups itself takes that much power? I just want something that allows up to 5 minutes so that all my equipment has time to shut down. Maybe I'll get that large apc refurb. Seems like the best deal.

I wonder though, most of the ups have one serial or usb connection. What if you have 3-4 computers?
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post #8 of 30 Old 09-21-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaomember View Post

so the ups itself takes that much power?

I don't follow.

Quote:


I just want something that allows up to 5 minutes so that all my equipment has time to shut down. Maybe I'll get that large apc refurb. Seems like the best deal.

If you just want time to shut down, that's easy, my 1500 Cyberpower UPS (which I don't like as far as integration) will run my desktop for the better part of an hour. I'm guessing the APC BR1500LCD I use on my server would run it longer.

Quote:


I wonder though, most of the ups have one serial or usb connection. What if you have 3-4 computers?

Then you have to connect the UPS to one PC and use something like NUT to communicate UPS state to the other PCs.

The thing to consider though is that connecting more systems will drastically reduce the runtime of the UPS.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #9 of 30 Old 09-21-2008, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post


I've got the BR1500LCD powering my media server+NAS and it will run them for about 11 minutes, but the combo pulls 300+ watts continuously, which is probably a good 2-3x what a normal PC should be pulling.

Do you mean that the ups itself pulls additional power?
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post #10 of 30 Old 09-21-2008, 12:15 PM
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[quote=aaomember;14707275]so the ups itself takes that much power? I just want something that allows up to 5 minutes so that all my equipment has time to shut down. Maybe I'll get that large apc refurb. Seems like the best deal.
QUOTE]

You need a UPS whose power rating will supply all of the power you need with some marging to spare. The fact that UPSs normally are capable for about 20 minutes of support at their power rating is because it would not make sense for UPS vendors to design, manufacture, and inventory multiple models for different time amounts with the same power rating.
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post #11 of 30 Old 09-21-2008, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaomember View Post

Do you mean that the ups itself pulls additional power?

No, I'm saying I've got 300W of equipment hanging off the UPS, so it's "only" able to keep power for about 10 minutes or so. The "2-3x" comment was that that 300W is a good two or three times the amount of power of a normal PC.

Since a "normal" PC pulls closer to 100W (or less), I'd expect the same UPS to run a normal PC for more like 45 minutes to an hour.

For comparison, my 1200VA CyberPower UPS on my desktop will keep it up for I think it was about 45 minutes, while my 1500 VA APC can only manage about 10-15 minutes on my Media Server and NAS since they pull so much more power.

Basically I was trying to illustrate that you need to know how long you want your system(s) up after a power outage, and how much power they pull so you can choose the right UPS.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #12 of 30 Old 09-22-2008, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Does running an ethernet through the surge suppressor effect performance?
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post #13 of 30 Old 09-22-2008, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to decide between this:
http://www.upsforless.com/apcsmartup...a1500rm2u.aspx

or 3 of the apc 1500 (lcd display).

Is 46db very loud? That's my biggest worry about the rack mount ups.
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post #14 of 30 Old 09-22-2008, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaomember View Post

Does running an ethernet through the surge suppressor effect performance?

Just make sure the loopthrough allows for 1.0 Gbps speed and not just 10/100, otherwise it will bottleneck your gigabit network.
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post #15 of 30 Old 09-22-2008, 07:56 PM
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I have the CyberPower unit that you linked to. I bought it when NewEgg was running it for $139 + free shipping. I was a bit hesitant when I ordered it, but the deal was too good. As it turns out, it works great. It is hooked to my WHS, and was instantly recognized which, as stranger89 pointed out, hasn't always been the case with CyberPower. It is also pretty quiet. If you dig deep into their literature, you'll notice that newer models, like the LCD series, say something about having a HID compliant usb port that works with built in features of Windows, where other models don't. Something to that effect. While I haven't pushed all the way to it's limit, it will power my WHS for more than an hour and a half.
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post #16 of 30 Old 09-22-2008, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Staples have the apc 1500 for only $159 shipped free after rebate if someone is interested. I'd like to have one that fits on my rack, that's why I linked to the apc refurb site. Just wondering if 46db of noise is excessive. Then again, no fan = less noise = more heat = shortened battery life.
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post #17 of 30 Old 09-23-2008, 05:38 AM
 
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Yes, 45db is loud. As a comparison, silent PC fans are around the 20db range.

Here is some info:

Quote:


Dishwasher (Rinse) at 10 ft . . . 60 dB
Bird calls . . . 44 dB

http://www.eltoroairport.org/issues/noise_levels.htm

The scale is logrithmic, so 60 db is a much louder than 44 db. But 45 and 44 are very close, so it is a good refrence.

Personally, it would bother me. Good news is the APC only runs it if it needs it.

I use two UPSs in my system. I have an APC SmartUPS 1500RM2U and an APC SmartUPS 750RM2U (rack mount models). I use two because of the startup surge caused by my system. The Plasma TV is on one and the Denon 3808CI AVR is on the other. The HTPC is on the one with the plasma, which is the 1500. The other assorted items are plugged in to either one, based on loading of the UPSs.

The 1500 has a fan, but it only kicks on if the room is warm and I have been having a movie marathon. Its fan is 46db at 1 meter, and it is too loud to have running during a movie.
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post #18 of 30 Old 09-23-2008, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Yes, 45db is loud. As a comparison, silent PC fans are around the 20db range.

Here is some info:


http://www.eltoroairport.org/issues/noise_levels.htm

The scale is logrithmic, so 60 db is a much louder than 44 db. But 45 and 44 are very close, so it is a good refrence.

Personally, it would bother me. Good news is the APC only runs it if it needs it.

I use two UPSs in my system. I have an APC SmartUPS 1500RM2U and an APC SmartUPS 750RM2U (rack mount models). I use two because of the startup surge caused by my system. The Plasma TV is on one and the Denon 3808CI AVR is on the other. The HTPC is on the one with the plasma, which is the 1500. The other assorted items are plugged in to either one, based on loading of the UPSs.

The 1500 has a fan, but it only kicks on if the room is warm and I have been having a movie marathon. Its fan is 46db at 1 meter, and it is too loud to have running during a movie.


Thanks for the info. I thought that the apc rackmounts' fan goes continuously. If it only kicks in periodically, that's not bad. I've had so many of those fanless ups die, hopefully the fan will keep the battery going longer.
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post #19 of 30 Old 09-23-2008, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven975 View Post

if you want maximum duration, car batteries are the way to go. Just sting as many as you want in parallel.

The little gelcells in UPS's wear out fast if they are loaded often.

Are the internal gelcells wired in serial or parallel: ie, how many car batteries do you need.

My old UPS was handy for catching some CNN during the 2003 NE blackout (I have Dish SatTV). I had a flt out of JFK the next day...
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post #20 of 30 Old 09-23-2008, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaomember View Post

Is 46db very loud? That's my biggest worry about the rack mount ups.

On my APC UPS the fan only activates when it is running off battery power.
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post #21 of 30 Old 09-23-2008, 06:42 PM
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Most basic UPS's will only run 5-8 minutes at their rated load. APC's XL lines (and I'm sure others like it) will run about 20 min's at their rated load, but those start around $400.
Fortunately, peak load and average load are usually much different. If you game, your system will be near peak load while gaming. When it's just sitting there idle with the display in power-save, your draw from the outlet may be 1/4 that. Runtime also isn't linear with load. At half-load, most UPS's will have 3-4 times the runtime as at full load.
APC has a runtime calculator on their site for all their UPS's. I buy exclusively APC just because of this (it's not worth my time to figure out how long that tripplite or whatever will run.)
A feature to look for is AVR (protects better from brownouts and surges without having to switch to battery.)
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post #22 of 30 Old 09-23-2008, 08:46 PM
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Concerning the original poster's question about battery size, Cyberpower list the size of the gell cell(s) in their specs. For the unit linked to in the post, the Cyberpower specs say it user two 8.5ah gell cells.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/pro...specifications

As a cheaper solution, Fry's has some refurbed Cyberpower units for pretty cheap. I've got two of the CP685AVR units comming in the mail. They were $36 each + shipping. Hopefully they are truly refurbed with new batteries. I may also investigate hooking up a car battery to them.

http://shop3.frys.com/product/5525730

Got a question myself. What is the best way to protect your equipment from blinks in the power that happen many times in a row? Around here it seems that when the power goes out half the time it comes on and off rapidly for a few minutes. Seems like it wouldn't be good for electronics doing that. Is the solution to put anything you care about on the battery part of a UPS?
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post #23 of 30 Old 09-23-2008, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcobra View Post

Concerning the original poster's question about battery size, Cyberpower list the size of the gell cell(s) in their specs. For the unit linked to in the post, the Cyberpower specs say it user two 8.5ah gell cells.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/pro...specifications

As a cheaper solution, Fry's has some refurbed Cyberpower units for pretty cheap. I've got two of the CP685AVR units comming in the mail. They were $36 each + shipping. Hopefully they are truly refurbed with new batteries. I may also investigate hooking up a car battery to them.

http://shop3.frys.com/product/5525730

Got a question myself. What is the best way to protect your equipment from blinks in the power that happen many times in a row? Around here it seems that when the power goes out half the time it comes on and off rapidly for a few minutes. Seems like it wouldn't be good for electronics doing that. Is the solution to put anything you care about on the battery part of a UPS?


A voltage regulator?
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post #24 of 30 Old 09-23-2008, 11:07 PM
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A voltage regulator works well for brown outs where the power dips but does not go out completely. UPSes have built in voltage regulators on all outlets.
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post #25 of 30 Old 09-24-2008, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

A voltage regulator works well for brown outs where the power dips but does not go out completely. UPSes have built in voltage regulators on all outlets.

I think it depends on the UPS, right? The mid to low end consumer APC units usually do not have AVR from what I understand.
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post #26 of 30 Old 09-24-2008, 09:37 PM
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Looks like you are correct. They used to all have them but maybe I'm showing my age with that statement. It looks like the ES and CS models do NOT have AVRs while the LS and RS models do (Back-UPS line). All models have power conditioning though.
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post #27 of 30 Old 09-24-2008, 10:34 PM
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Circuit city has a UPS for 15 bux right now, http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/APC-U...oductDetail.do

not sure if thats the same type of UPS your looking for but its only 15 bux!
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post #28 of 30 Old 09-25-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:

I have this one, and really like it. Has worked great, protected my system and been extremely reliable. No complaints.

-Dave
-There are Ten Thunders in the Wake: The Seventh Thunder is Tribal Man again. --Triumph 1984
-My HT Blog (archived) and Photo Gallery
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post #29 of 30 Old 09-25-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vert View Post

Circuit city has a UPS for 15 bux right now, http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/APC-U...oductDetail.do

not sure if thats the same type of UPS your looking for but its only 15 bux!

Cute!
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post #30 of 30 Old 09-25-2008, 06:16 PM
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That little $15 one would power most SFF PC's, no more. It's 325va, which is about 200 watts.
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