Guide To Building A Media Storage Server - Page 225 - AVS Forum
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post #6721 of 7891 Old 04-20-2011, 07:40 PM
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Sorry, I didn't mean my comment to come over "overly snarky", I just thought it was pretty funny to have a conversation this deep in data protection for ripped DVDs/BD.

Honestly, your best option for getting the level of redundancy that you want is probably to build 2 UnRAID server and have them rsync to one another. That gives you total physical segregation, I really think that running a ton of drives on one hardware RAID controller leaves you open to a simple corruption from the card that's not really all that unlikely (compared to other data loss scenarios).

Anytime you stripe data the chance of catastrophic data loss goes up. That's why I really like the UnRAID type approach for storing media, speed is not a concern for me, I just want to be sure that a double disk failure isn't going to lead to a total data loss.

A 6280 really will solve all your problems, that data will be SAFE. Unfortunately, your power bill will be about 1K a month just to run the array, but we all have to make sacrifices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netsrac1967 View Post

First of all, Raid 10 is done for redundancy more than speed.

I welcome comments, not snarky remarks.

Maybe if you read all the posts, you would see that in my case I was able to get hardware raid cards at a very good price, but they only support Raid 0, 1, 5, 10 and 50.

Furthermore a very high percentage of people running raid 5 or 6 with commercial drives have a lot of problems. If I wanted to spend 2-3 times the money and get enterprise drives then I would run Raid 5.

I do not know about you but I have converted over 900 DVD's to my collection which did not happen over night, and in my world time is money.

Everyone has their own way of storing their data, some go to extremes, and some live on the edge.

For me RAID 10 gives me peace of mind others do not like to lose that much data and will run Raid 5 or 6 and some will even run JBOD, others like to run UnRaid plus many more different technologies. I say more power to them. To each his/her own.

What you say is true, a controller can crap out at any time, and you can lose everything. Nothing is foolproof!

The best simple method someone said they did, was making copy of each HD when full and moved it offsite. This is a method I have not ruled out, and can still go that way if I wanted to in the future.

BTW, I'll pass on your NetApp 6280


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post #6722 of 7891 Old 04-20-2011, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

Few questions for the server pros:

1. What is a port multiplier used for? If I buy a Raid card with 2 or 4 sata slots, can I add a port multiplier to support additional hard drives?


I think port multipliers are something to shy away from. But there is an other thing called SAS expanders which looks like a miuch better alternative. From what I've read it seems that HP and Intel has a good one out atm, and Chenbro is releasing a new one this quarter. But I think you need to be carefull when choosing your SAS HBA to combine with the expander.
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post #6723 of 7891 Old 04-20-2011, 08:25 PM
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mjfink, I don't mean to start an argument but some of what you said just doesn't make much sense. Try to take my comments with a hint of jest.

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Originally Posted by mjfink View Post

Guys, this is media, it's not Top Secret government files. I work for a company that builds and sells top tier enterprise hard disk arrays, we almost never use RAID 10 because it's just so darn wasteful of hard disks, and these things are used to store incredibly sensitive/valuable data.

Well... for what NetApp charges for disks, plus the overheard of "right sizing", WAFL, snapshot reserve, aggregate reserve, keeping the root volume on a dedicated RAID DP aggregate separate from the user aggregates, and several other things I'm surely forgetting, I wouldn't want to waste an additional 50% of my disks either. And that's assuming NetApp even supported RAID 1 or 10!

Here's a good example. I have a NetApp FAS3240 cluster with 72 2TB drives. I know, that's a pathetically small system compared to your 6280s, but bear with me. After disabling the aggregate reserve and snapshot reserve entirely (0% each) then migrating my root volumes onto my data aggregates to gain back 12TB of space (which means having root volumes on a 64-bit aggregate, not even supported until 8.0.1 a few months ago and still considered a bad idea in general), then resizing my RAID groups to more efficiently use the space (the NetApp engineer who did the initial install was wasting 2 disks worth due to inefficiently sizing the RGs) then manually overriding the default requirement for two hot spares per controller through RLM, almost all of which I'm describing being violations of "NetApp best practices" how much space do you think I have available out of my initial 144TB of raw storage? I'll tell you, it's a measly 81.5 TB. And to think, if I had just followed convention and set it up the way NetApp recommends (or how they do it for you...) that number would be closer to 60 or 65 TB. I'm failing to see how for a generic home user this type of arrangement would be much better than just running a RAID 10.

In any case, we all know a home user is not going to be spending a quarter million or more on a NetApp rack. However, for a consumer buying 2TB hard disks at ~$80 each it's not beyond reason for some people to want a complete mirror of their data. I'm not one of them myself, but it's like buying $1200 CPUs and dual $700 graphics cards to play World of Warcraft... to each there own when it comes to defining overkill.

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Originally Posted by mjfink View Post

If you really must go "off the deep end" run RAID6 with a hot spare, that's going to provide enough redundancy that for almost all uses, you'll never have to worry about losing data.

I think that's a bad characterization that could mislead readers into thinking that RAID6 w/ hot spare is a "crazy" solution that is so good it almost can't lose data. RAID 6 is great, but unless you've backed the data up (as you rightly mentioned) any RAID level is prone to a variety of failures having nothing to do with the random wearout of "X" disks simultaneously. You mentioned one yourself in terms of the controller failing and taking out the array with it. Seeing as most home users dont have remote replication capability, a complete mirror of their data is again not an out of this world thing to ask for if they feel just that tiny bit safer than running RAID 6, or if (as in many cases) their hardware doesn't support RAID 6.

Further, what is SyncMirror really besides just a RAID 1 where the mirror happens to be at a remote location. Said differently, what is RAID 1 really but a synchronous duplication of your RAID groups (ie: SyncMirror) where the mirror happens to be local to the machine? And even that could be changed, ie: Do a RAID 1 across two fibre channel or SAS connected chassis located in different parts of your house for example...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfink View Post

If you're really looking at stuff like RAID 10 (and, IMHO, for media, you should really be looking at RAID 61...)

I know this one was an intentional red herring to drive home your point, so I'll leave it alone

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfink View Post

I'll be happy to sell a NetApp 6280 with SyncMirror, SnapMirror and a few TB of FlashCache to anyone on this forum

Nah, after the experience with the 3240 I don't think I'll be needing another NetApp anytime soon. I almost wanted to check the disk carriers to make sure there were really drives in all of them, I was so surprised how little space we retained out of 144 TBs. I still joke around with my users that they should have let me build them a bunch of Norco chassis w/ mdadm RAID 6. We even run 10 GbE out of the 3240s and those suckers top out at 2 Gbps on the nose due to CPU utilization. I'd be willing to bet if I added a 10GbE NIC to my home server and upgraded from my dual-core Celeron I could match that... I still like NetApp stuff for NAS, and I'm not saying EMC or any of their competitors are any better, but if you discount all the "Intellectual Property" that enterprises rely on, the hardware used in these crazy enterprise machines is really nothing special compared to what any of us can build in our own homes.

Hey out of curiosity, are you an NCDA?
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post #6724 of 7891 Old 04-20-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netsrac1967 View Post

First of all, Raid 10 is done for redundancy more than speed.

I welcome comments, not snarky remarks.

Maybe if you read all the posts, you would see that in my case I was able to get hardware raid cards at a very good price, but they only support Raid 0, 1, 5, 10 and 50.

Furthermore a very high percentage of people running raid 5 or 6 with commercial drives have a lot of problems. If I wanted to spend 2-3 times the money and get enterprise drives then I would run Raid 5.

I do not know about you but I have converted over 900 DVD's to my collection which did not happen over night, and in my world time is money.

Everyone has their own way of storing their data, some go to extremes, and some live on the edge.

For me RAID 10 gives me peace of mind others do not like to lose that much data and will run Raid 5 or 6 and some will even run JBOD, others like to run UnRaid plus many more different technologies. I say more power to them. To each his/her own.

What you say is true, a controller can crap out at any time, and you can lose everything. Nothing is foolproof!

The best simple method someone said they did, was making copy of each HD when full and moved it offsite. This is a method I have not ruled out, and can still go that way if I wanted to in the future.

BTW, I'll pass on your NetApp 6280

I've been quietly thinking about your build and watching all the other discussion, snickering occasionally. Since you have two controllers and are considering RAID10 or something close to 50% disk utilization, I would recommend building a small array on one controller, maybe without any redundancy. You could do this by configuring the card as JBOD and just using the OS to concatenate all the disks together into a big file system, or just make a RAID0 array with 2 or 3 disks. Then build the same array or file system on disks connected to the other controller. Then every day or maybe twice a day, sync all the new files from the primary array to the secondary array. If you use a "contribute" sync, it will only copy new files to the secondary array and will not delete anything from the secondary array. This will protect you from accidental deletions. Once you get to 4 disks per controller, you can change it to RAID5, to provide a little protection against disk failure. Since you have a online backup, you don't have to worry so much about how many disks you have in your RAID set. If you want to go this way, then start with RAID0 on your first 2 or 3 disks so that you can do the ORLM to R5 when the time comes. I would choose this method before I would do RAID10. When you eventually outgrow your enclosure, you can simply move the secondary array to a second box and sync over the network.
This would be even better if you had controllers like Adaptec or Areca that will spin down idle arrays. You can decide for yourself if the benefit of being able to shut down the secondary array is worth the expense of another case/mobo/cpu/memory set is worth it. Recalling that you have a Norco case with so much empty space, I would think not.

- Mike
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post #6725 of 7891 Old 04-21-2011, 03:49 AM
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Maybe it's just me but I'm really down on the idea of a RAID 51 (or 61), or the similar suggestion of setting up two 5's and remotely syncing them. Lets take this conversation way off the deep end for a moment since we all know nobody is actually doing any of these things we're talking about.

OK we go all the way back to the beginning where the general comment is that RAID 10 is too space inefficient, or perhaps too space inefficient for too little protection (ie: the slim possibility of two disks in the same mirror failing doesn't "guarantee" any more than 1 disk's protection).

From there we moved on to: "gee if I'm going to throw away that much space I might was well run RAID 51 or 61". That's an idea I guess, but I would counter that for the same reason a RAID 0+1 is utter garbage while a 1+0 is (arguably) a good option, we should really be discussing RAID 15 or 16 if we're having this conversation.

I mean heck, I've never seen a controller that can do 51 or 61, so the fact that I've never even heard of 15 or 16 shouldn't figure in here right? But just think about it, if you created a bunch of little RAID 1's and then instead of laying a RAID 0 stripe on top you laid on a 5. This could be done in software RAID, not that I'm recommending it obviously. In order to lose data on this array you would have to lose two disks in the same mirror *plus* two additional disks in the same mirror! And think of how resilient a 16 would be by extension!

Coming back to reality for a moment, where this topic originated is because Netsrac1967 has outdated controller cards (no offense) that don't offer RAID 6 support. Otherwise he'd be running a RAID 6 and using some backup scheme to at least keep a copy of his most irreplcaeable data... right?

His options being limited to RAID 5 or RAID 10 though, he has every right to be concerned that RAID 5 is a huge risk on large RAID sets. Putting all 24 disks in one RAID 5 is obviously a ridiculous proposition, so assuming he did two 12-disk sets he's still looking at a 20% chance, 1-in-5, that the first time a disk fails he won't be able to survive the rebuild operation and he'd lose that half of his data. Boy I hope that wasn't the half he really cared about! The poor guy just doesn't want to re-rip 1000 movies some day when it's his turn for the URE bug to bite.

Compounding this discussion with "RAID 51" or rsync'd RAID 5's does nothing to combat the root of the discussion that RAID 5 itself is just not that reliable with this large of a data set. The suggestions to use UnRAID or FlexRAID or similar are far more valuable as they at least address the underlying problem. Personally, I wouldn't go the RAID 10 route, but we shouldn't begrudge those that choose to. There's nothing "wrong" with the RAID level itself other than "it's expensive".

Anyways, this has been a fun discussion about crazy theoretical and impractical RAID structures, but I believe it's important that when discounting all of those "mind exercises" as frivolous, RAID 10 doesn't get thrown out with the bathwater.
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post #6726 of 7891 Old 04-21-2011, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zicoz View Post

I think port multipliers are something to shy away from

Try building a home server/HTPC from components that you blindly ordered online without reading the specs first, then blindly ordering enclosures and SATA port multipliers to hang an array of disks in, expecting it all to work out-of-the-box, enabling you to set up a software RAID with *any* kind of performance.

Amazingly, it worked. I quite happy with the performance (good enough for streaming blue ray anyway), and I've not lost any data - yet.

Knock on wood, of course.
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post #6727 of 7891 Old 04-21-2011, 05:40 AM
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I too have had no problems with port multipliers. I plug them in, and they work. 1 port turned into five, for about $50.

My dual Rythmik Servo sub project (actually quad now, need to update page)
HDM format neutral thanks to the pricing wars of the '07 xmas shopping season :)
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post #6728 of 7891 Old 04-21-2011, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

Coming back to reality for a moment, where this topic originated is because Netsrac1967 has outdated controller cards (no offense) that don't offer RAID 6 support. Otherwise he'd be running a RAID 6 and using some backup scheme to at least keep a copy of his most irreplcaeable data... right?

Well little update on my outdated controller cards

After updating my server to 2008 enterprise, I tested my array and my read was only avg 110 MB/s, on my Dell I averaged 130 MB/s. My Dell PCI-X was 64Bit/100 MHz, my Intel was 64Bit/133MHz.

So I go to check out 3ware console to find out that both cards are running at only 66 MHz

Why is this happening Well for some reason the previous owner never upgraded the BIOS from 2006, well upgraded now running at 133 MHz and avg read is now a respectable 165 MB/s

Do I need that much speed, probably not but nice to know it is there

Now time to pack it up and bring it home!!!

Happy Easter!!!
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post #6729 of 7891 Old 04-25-2011, 07:21 AM
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Do most SAS cards work with the Norco 4220 and the drive LEDs?

I've heard that some controllers don't support the LEDs on the Norco which makes it impossible to blink the LED to find out which drive is bad, etc.
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post #6730 of 7891 Old 04-25-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

Do most SAS cards work with the Norco 4220 and the drive LEDs?

I've heard that some controllers don't support the LEDs on the Norco which makes it impossible to blink the LED to find out which drive is bad, etc.

Well my old 3Ware raid card works with it. Blue light comes on whenever there is activity. Yellow LED show that drive is populated.Hope never to see a failure light...

Also since Norco does not believe in instructions for these boxes, the drives are numbered from right to left when looking at the front of the box.
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post #6731 of 7891 Old 05-01-2011, 09:01 AM
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How many Rack Unit's do I need to fit a PSU, PCI sound card, motherboard and ram?
--How tall does it need to be?
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post #6732 of 7891 Old 05-01-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
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How many Rack Unit's do I need to fit a PSU, PCI sound card, motherboard and ram?
--How tall does it need to be?

If you want to use a standard PSU then 2U (horizontal) to 4U (vertical)

From Wiki

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A rack unit or U (less commonly RU) is a unit of measure used to describe the height of equipment intended for mounting in a 19-inch rack or a 23-inch rack (The dimension refers to the width of the equipment mounting frame in the rack i.e. the width of the equipment that can be mounted inside the rack). One rack unit is 1.75 inches (44.45 mm) high

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post #6733 of 7891 Old 05-02-2011, 07:43 AM
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Hey all,

Finally decided I am going to take the plunge and build a NAS. I have a general idea what I am interested in but I am still a bit shakey on the details. At the moment I have everything stored either on an internal or external hard drive but I am tired of always switching the drive and needing my computer on to share. I have a respectable level of tech knowledge and am very happy with my HTPC but it is time to step up with the storage side of things.

Main purpose of this unit is to obviously hold movies/music/photos. I will also be storing personal data on there and use it as backup.

- No need for a tiny case. I want ability to hold at least 6 internal drives.
-Some level of data security. When dealing with this much data I would hate to lose something. Leaning towards a RAID5 software configuration. (Possibly ZFS but I am less familiar with that.) I would prefer a software RAID to a hardware one.
- Cheap. We all live on a budget and while I don't mind spending money for quality I think I am going to go with FreeNAS.
-Low Power. This is the one I know NOTHING about. This has never been a concern for any of my other builds. I would prefer Wake on Lan and low wattage while idling but I know these things aren't the easiest to find.
-Powerful. I plan on streaming 1080p mkv files. This will all be wired via gigabit so I don't suspect that should be a problem at all. MAX 2 users at a time and I rarely expect that. The bigger concern is the ability to transcode things on the fly. Either to a portable device/ps3 (ps3 media server?)
-Video out. I want a Mobo that has the ability to hook up a monitor to it. I am not geeky enough for the remote install. but I will remove it after configuration.

I was planning on using the Samsung Spinpoint F4 2TB 5400rpm as my main drive. Starting with 3 of them and perhaps more if need be. I have one and have had no issues with it and don't think there should be any even with the low rpm.

Any advice on what mobo/cpu I should look into that is compatible with FreeNAS? Is there a better solution I am missing? Tips on the power supply/ram/case would be very helpful as well.

Thanks!

No help on this one guys?

I have narrowed my needs a little bit.

I am looking for the most power efficient NAS possible while not in use. I assume this means wake on LAN and the ability to drives to spin down while not in use. The machine doesn't need to be powerful and I am looking anywhere in the 300-500 range for processor/mobo/powersupply/ram.

Secondly IF and this is a big if the price difference between a machine that is power efficient and cheap and slightly less power efficient but more powerful (able to transcode 1080p via PS3 Media Server) is minimal I could easily be swayed to go that route.

Thanks!
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post #6734 of 7891 Old 05-03-2011, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaydenEG View Post

No help on this one guys?

I have narrowed my needs a little bit.

I am looking for the most power efficient NAS possible while not in use. I assume this means wake on LAN and the ability to drives to spin down while not in use. The machine doesn't need to be powerful and I am looking anywhere in the 300-500 range for processor/mobo/powersupply/ram.

Secondly IF and this is a big if the price difference between a machine that is power efficient and cheap and slightly less power efficient but more powerful (able to transcode 1080p via PS3 Media Server) is minimal I could easily be swayed to go that route.

Thanks!

If you were just going with storage then you do not need a powerful machine, but if you want to start transcoding, then you would need a more powerful machine or video card.

I would suggest that if you already have a powerful desktop then I would transcode my movies there and transfer them to my server.

If you are going to go with Raid 5, you are better to go with Raid 6 as it has better redundancy. I use Raid 10, but it is overkill for a budget system.

I have heard good things about ZFS, but have never tried it, same goes for FreeNAS.

Computer components are pretty cheap these days, but if you want to future proof your server I would start with the case.

Decide how many TB you need today and times it by 3.

As many have mentioned, any type of Raid system whether software or hardware is not 100% redundant. Also software will of course use a lot more onboard resources.

My advice is find a case that will suit your needs and build from there.

Last thing you want to do is build a NAS with 5 drives, then a year down the road need to add another drive, only to have to rebuild everything in a larger case.

Good luck
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post #6735 of 7891 Old 05-03-2011, 06:59 AM
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Here is my Media Server set up.

Abit mobo with Pentium II 233 MHz processor, 64 Mb RAM, 4 port PCI SATA II controller, 4x Samsung F4 2 Tb drives in RAID 5, Windows 2000 Server, all in an aluminum Antec case with the front 120 mm fan blowing on the hard drive cage.

Cost: Mainly the cost of the harddrives, and the controller card. Everything else was just collecting dust in the basement.

Previous set-up was made using the same mobo but 1 Tb WD Green drives back in 2008.

Original Media Server was made in 1998 using an Intel 486 machine and WD 180 Gb drive that came with its own PCI (Promise) controller. That system eventually grew to house 11 hard drives in JBOD, but constant backups using DVD's was getting annoying, and a RAID 5 system was developed in 2008. The system is still backed up using 2 external hard drives, but a lot less often (every 6 months), since RAID 5 offers a lot more redundancy than JBOD.

I chose software RAID mainly due to the lower cost, but also, due to its flexibility, should the controller die on me. With hardware RAID, one would have procure an exact same controller module to retrieve the content of the RAId array. With Soft Raid, it can be migrated into any Windows 2000 system.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #6736 of 7891 Old 05-11-2011, 03:41 AM
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I just upgraded my existing Norco server with two HBAs this weekend and I thought I'd post here recapping my outlook on the state of things as well as a few lessons learned along the way.

I'd originally set it up with two reverse breakout cables to use 5 SATA ports on the motherboard while I waited for the Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 to get better Linux support. I'm just starting to approach the limit of my 5 disks though so the time was now to wire up for expansion.

First, from the research I've done it would appear that the AOC-SASLP-MV8 is now fully supported by Linux kernel 2.6.37 and later. Those of us not running Red Hat / SuSE should finally be in the clear. I'm not going to swear to that as I didn't end up buying these cards after all, but the comments I've seen over the last couple of months have been largely positive. For example: http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/li...6887636/thread

I imagine it's worth explaining why after a year of waiting for Linux to support these HBAs I did not end up installing them. The quick and easy answer is that IBM BR10i cards are now all the rage for cheap 8-port SAS HBAs, displacing the old favorite Supermicro. Many IBM systems ship with these cards and nobody wants them, so "new" system pulls are extremely cheap ($50-$70) on Ebay. I bought mine both from a seller named VistaComputer as a "best offer" buy it now, with a small discount for buying two.

Based on the LSI 1068E chip, the Linux support on this cards is rock solid and has been for years, and at nearly half the price of the Supermicro it's hard to argue with. I will note there were many reports of conflicts with the smartd daemon in the smartmontools package causing 1068E based controllers to hang or drop disks, but I believe (again not swearing to anything) that this has been resolved in later versions of the Linux kernel and/or smartmontools. Even if not, the resolution is to simply disable smartd and poll for SMART status manually using smartctl when needed.

A quick note on firmware. As with most 1068E based cards it is easy to flash the BR10i with the LSI OEM "IT mode" firmware to replace the IBM firmware on the board and disable the built-in RAID functionality. In my particular circumstance however I got more than I'd originally bargained for. I'm using an Intel 3000-series server motherboard and apparently these and the 5000-series boards do not have much Option ROM, thus rebooting to a DOS disk and attempting to run a program like LSI's SASFLASH does not work.

I couldn't find much information about this problem online, which is the main reason I'm posting about it here. There was one KB article on LSI's site that explained the problem but offered little in the way of help solving it, and one "ask Yahoo" type question where someone had the same problem but never did get an answer or solution. The solution is to download the EFI version of SASFLASH, reboot and enter BIOS, from the boot manager launch an EFI shell and perform the firmware upgrade from there. The EFI shell acted pretty much like a DOS command line from the look of it, with the USB stick holding the firmware being "fs0:" instead of something like "D:". It was painless once I knew what I was doing, but I was surprised by the lack of information about this. Everyone is using Supermicro boards as opposed to Intel's I guess.

That's basically it, my Norco now has all 20 ports activated, just waiting for more disks. The two BR10i's control the first 16 slots and my motherboard does the final 4 through the reverse breakout cable. Now we wait for a good sale on hard drives!
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post #6737 of 7891 Old 06-18-2011, 07:21 AM
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OK, this is a loaded question but my head is spinning at looking at all these mobos on Newegg for one that looks good.

I am looking for a rock solid mobo that has three PCI-e 4x (or higher) so I can plug in three Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8. I would not care if they are LGA 775 or 1155/6.

Any suggestions? Cheaper would be better but at this point I can be flexible.

Newegg makes it hard to power search for PCI-e slots so I have to search manually for them.
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post #6738 of 7891 Old 06-18-2011, 07:48 AM
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GIGABYTE GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3
GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3
ASRock Z68 Extreme4
Supermicro X9SCL, X9SCM
ASUS P8B WS (Xeon is required to use the third x4 slot)

How many SATA ports do you need? Intel DB65AL ($90, with Intel Gb LAN) + 2 x AOC-SASLP-MV8 + 1 x Rocket 620 supports 24 HDDs, the cheapest solution for 24 HDDs.
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post #6739 of 7891 Old 06-18-2011, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

GIGABYTE GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3
ASRock Z68 Extreme4
Supermicro X9SCL, X9SCM
ASUS P8B WS (Xeon is required to use the third x4 slot)

Thanks for those.

I may have to look at the ASRock and research the Gigabyte (have not had great luck with them).

Supermicro seems to be my go to board every time. Not sure how I missed those two when I searched before.
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post #6740 of 7891 Old 06-19-2011, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

OK, this is a loaded question but my head is spinning at looking at all these mobos on Newegg for one that looks good.

I am looking for a rock solid mobo that has three PCI-e 4x (or higher) so I can plug in three Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8. I would not care if they are LGA 775 or 1155/6.

Any suggestions? Cheaper would be better but at this point I can be flexible.

Newegg makes it hard to power search for PCI-e slots so I have to search manually for them.

Supermicro X8SIA-F

I thought about using this MB for the same purpose, but I'm building with right now with the Tyan S5512WGM2NR with 2 SAS ports onboard.
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post #6741 of 7891 Old 06-21-2011, 01:45 AM
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I used to have external drives to store my movies, pics, ebooks and documents, then my needs prompted me to buy a 2-bay QNAP NAS. Since my 2x2TB is almost full, I had to re-think if the time come that I need more in the future, I will buy a 4-bay then a 6-bay, etc. But I have been giving it a second thought and it seem more practical, flexible and will save me money in the long run. If I built my own NAS that is expandable for maybe 9 data HDD, more if we count the OS and parity drives as a way to safeguard for any unforseen failures. Also, I will be able to customize and install some softwares.

It's been a long time since I had my own PC, decades, cause I have been using laptop ever since. So I am behind of current PC technology and please pardon me if I will sometime sound as if I don't seem to know what I am asking, maybe because I don't , so please be gentle . I have done some research on some of them but I sure want to hear from those who have hands on experience and atleast clarify some miss conceptions of mine if there are any. I have read some of the suggestions in this forum but wasn't able to read them all. Some may have been answered before but atleast answering on my queries will update them. Appreciate if you can suggest a list of models, brand, etc. per items if you can. Also, everything will be brand new except for a few HDD, since I don't have an existing old PC.

Please feel free to suggest on anything on the list. Here goes...



Features:
----------

- primarily 4 HDD and expandable up to 12 HDD. 1 OS/data for apps, 2 Parity, 9 DATA. Using Flexraid.
- Be able to handle 3-5 simultaneous connection doing any combination of the following.
- streaming 1080p movies
- sream music
- uploading/downloading large files, 1GB and above
- read/write to files

- Shouls show as another drives on other windows OS PC or other OS on the network.

- Will also act as a web server so I can install web GUI/applications that I can access remotely from the Internet if required specially when I'm away. I will be able to us it for managing of files, uploading/downloading and read/write to files as well as management of the server.

- Planning to use it as a secondary Media player and plug it directly to a TV/LCD monitor. This is incase if my primary media player has problem and my laptop is being used.

- Lowest power consumption, specially when idle but should still able to handle all my requirements.

- Lowest noise possible.

- As low cost as it can get without sacrificing the features I need.

- It will store any type of files, video, music, images, documents, ebooks, backups, etc.


Below is the list that I believe I would need to be able to achieve the above requirements. Most of it still needs to be thought over. Some if not most of them considered some of the suggestions or ideas I got from reading this forum. Feel free to comment, advise and give suggestions to any items below.


Software:
------------------

*OS: Ubuntu (ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-amd64)

* Raid Software:
Flexraid - 2 parity drives to allow me of 2 drive failures max. If there are more failures, atleast I can still recover the other drives that hasn't failed. Also allow me to just add new drives, even with existing data on it.

* Software for streaming music (example Squeezebox Server + musci IP)

* For streaming video, music and photos. (ex. MediaTomb)

* For downloading (any ********** Client ex. Deluge+FlexGet)

* Web GUI for administration of the server remotely (ex. VNC server, Webmin)

* FlexRAID WebUI Client

* SAMBA or NFS (haven't decided yet) - Create Users, share drives and folders across the network.

* Web GUI for downloading/uploading and share/browse/open files remotely through a browser (still looking but similar with Web file manager HTTP Commander or eXtplorer).


Hardware
---------------------

*Casing:

- Can hold atleast 12 3.5 HDD and 2-3 5.25 for disc drives(bluray/writers) and other gadget like temperature monitoring device with LCD display.
- Should have sufficient ventalation like maybe lots of fans and/or spacious even when cards, cables and all 12 HDDs are installed.
- Also thinking of getting one which I can hot swap the drives. I don't know what are the requirements for this and if this can only be done when using raid hardwares. Giving it a though if I do need this, maybe a few of the HDD if it will come a time where I would not expand it beyond what I have and just swap the HDD that has the data I need. Although this mean that those HDD who is not plugin always won't have the raid protection. What do you guys think?
- Any model recommendation? I will still have to shop and decide for this on our local stores. So the more recomendation the better.

*Hard Disk:

- 12 (1 for OS, 2 for parity, 9 for data ).
- Capacity is between 1TB-3TB or more if 4 and above drives will become available before I will be able to used the other ports.
- reliable and possible energy saving features.
- Would it be practical if I use SDD for my OS and apps data?

*Motherboard:

- planning to have at least 4-6 onboard sata ports, more is better to minimize used of multiple channel sata cards. I don't know if that has an advantage though. Any thoughts and advise would be good. Should I get the one with SATA3 ports, it supports SATA2 HDD right? This well future proof it as well as support old SATA1 and SATA2 HDD right?

- if I go ahead with the original plan above, the mobo should have at least 4-5 PCIx slots. I am not familiar with the slot type difference, features and advantages such as PCI, PCI-E x1, x4, x8, x16, etc. Can the card support all this slots? What should I be considering? Atleast 2 should be able to handle 4-6 ports sata cards and be able to handle the features I need. 1 for video card if required for 1080p if onboard video is not enough and if it is possible to add it on motherboards with onboard video card. 1 for sound card if the mobos onboard sound card is crappy. 1 for NIC if the onboard LAN has no wake-on-lan capability. I am thinking if it will be advantegous if I will just use 1 card and use multiplier. Will it still allow me to see each HDD as separate drives on the OS? Will PM affect and add to power consumption compared to using another card? How about space and ventalation in the casing?

- has onboard video card. Since one of the plan is to be able to plug in to a TV/LCD monitor to act as a secondary media player, will the onboard video enough? Can I use the onboard video card now and add later an additional video card to support 1080p?

- e-sata port? do motherboards have this? Is this necessary or would you recommend it for future expansion beyond the 12 HDD? How will the drive appear in the OS when connected using this? Will the OS see them as individual drives? Or do you suggest getting SATA card with atleast 1 e-sata port?

- Onboard NIC, possible with wake-on-LAN feature. DO you advise this or getting a separate NIC card instead with this feature?

- low power consumption but powerful enough to handle the requirements.

- any brand/model you can recommend? Should I go for that support AMD or Intel? The more recommendation you give the better

*Cards:

- 4-6 channel/port sata controller card. Depends on the motherboard available sata port.
Do you advise having an additional e-sata port for future expansion beyond 12 HDD?
Or should I get a mobo with e-sata port?
How will the drive appear in the OS when HDD are connected using this card and the e-sata port?
Will the OS see them as individual drives?
Any brand and model you can recommend?

- NIC with wake-on-lan feature, this maybe required if there are no motherboards available with on-board LAN with this feature. OR if most of you advise on getting this card rather than using the one that comes with the mobo.


* Memory:

- I guess 2Gb is more than enough? Any recommendation on capacity, brand. model, type?
- ECC Unbuffered or ECC Registered RAM?

*CPU:

- powerful enough to handle the above requirements.
- do I need additional cooling system for it to handle the above requirements?
- any specific recommendation? should I go for AMD ot Intel?


*PSU:
How much do I need for it to handle the above requirements?
Any brand, model and power recommendation?
Should I make sure that it has connector and can support atleast 15 devices, 12 HDD, Disc Drive, etc?
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post #6742 of 7891 Old 06-25-2011, 12:57 PM
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Hi guys,

I put together my new media server today. Parts list:

Norco 450B Rackmount Case
Asus P8H67-M LE
Intel Pentium G620t (sandy bridge)
Stock CPU Cooler
2x2GB RAM
OCZ 600w Modular PSU
4 Port SATA Controller Card
Storage:
1 500GB WD Blue HDD [OS]
6 2TB Hitachi HDDs [Storage]

I installed Windows Professional 7 and have been running through various updates / service packs / etc. Also made sure all other internal part drivers are installed.

I have the 500GB drive set to AHCI, but I haven't done anything at all to the 2 TB drives yet. Windows recognizes them all (as well as the SATA card), and I can see them all as un-partitioned, un-initialized drives in Drive Management (i.e. they do NOT show up in "My Computer").

Also, please note all storage (2TB) drives are blank. Files will be moved from other computers on my network.

I need help deciding on and configuring the software RAID option that is best suited for me. I'd like 1 or 2 parity disks tops and 1 large (8-10TB) drive that is visible across my network / homegroup. Within this drive I'll then set up folders for Music / Videos / TV Shows / etc. Of course in the future I'd also like to be able to add disks without a major headache (essentially plug and play).

Ideally once I spend this weekend setting this thing up, I'll never have to mess with it again. It will just live in my basement and do its thing.

Any suggestions on where to start? I've done some basic preliminary research on unRAID and FlexRAID but their user forums tend to be biased and its hard to tell what my best option is (of those or others). Thanks!
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post #6743 of 7891 Old 06-26-2011, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeD1em500 View Post

I've done some basic preliminary research on unRAID and FlexRAID but their user forums tend to be biased and its hard to tell what my best option is (of those or others). Thanks!

unRAID isn't an option if you're planning on running Win7. unRAID is its own operating system based on Linux, and designed to function as a file server only. It's a good choice if a file server is all you want, but not if you want your server to perform other functions. Conversely, FlexRAID is designed to be installed on a fuctioning OS (Windows, Linux, etc.), and can add redundancy and drive pooling functionality to your server. I use FlexRAID on WHS, so I'm only using the redundancy fucntion, since WHS (v1) has it's own drive pooling functionality built in. For redundancy, FlexRAID provides some unique features unavailable in any other product that make it an excellent choice for adding redundancy to a media server. I can't really speak to the drive pooling functionality, since I don't use it. I get the impression from from the forums by those who use it that it still has a few issues, but the developer is currently working through them at a fairly decent pace.

My dual Rythmik Servo sub project (actually quad now, need to update page)
HDM format neutral thanks to the pricing wars of the '07 xmas shopping season :)
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post #6744 of 7891 Old 06-26-2011, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

unRAID isn't an option if you're planning on running Win7. unRAID is its own operating system based on Linux, and designed to function as a file server only. It's a good choice if a file server is all you want, but not if you want your server to perform other functions. Conversely, FlexRAID is designed to be installed on a fuctioning OS (Windows, Linux, etc.), and can add redundancy and drive pooling functionality to your server. I use FlexRAID on WHS, so I'm only using the redundancy fucntion, since WHS (v1) has it's own drive pooling functionality built in. For redundancy, FlexRAID provides some unique features unavailable in any other product that make it an excellent choice for adding redundancy to a media server. I can't really speak to the drive pooling functionality, since I don't use it. I get the impression from from the forums by those who use it that it still has a few issues, but the developer is currently working through them at a fairly decent pace.

Thanks for the post!

Would you recommend I look into separate solutions for drive pooling and for redundancy? Perhaps Liquesce + FlexRAID (not even sure if that would work).
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post #6745 of 7891 Old 06-26-2011, 08:55 AM
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I haven't used Liquesce, or anything else for pooling other than WHS. I'd have to defer to others.

My dual Rythmik Servo sub project (actually quad now, need to update page)
HDM format neutral thanks to the pricing wars of the '07 xmas shopping season :)
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post #6746 of 7891 Old 07-05-2011, 03:41 AM
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Hello Everyone!

I am still on the planning stage and gathering which parts to purchase and put together for my NAS. I will need help on other areas that I am still confused.

In the future, I plan to add a 6 channel/port sata controller card in order for to accommodate 12 HDD (1 OS, 2 Parity, 9 DATA). I also plan to have 2 of the 9HDD to be hot swappable, a blu-ray optical drive, thermal meter display, a wake-on-LAN card, and possible an upgraded video card. Also an e-sata card if I decide to extend further beyond the 12 HDD.

I have my eye on getting Asus P8H67-M EVO as my mother board. It has enough SATA ports to start with. Also has it's Graphics and Audio built in. I do have a few question regarding the use and compatibility of the Expansion slots for my requirements.

So my inquiries are:

1. Can I add a video card to a motherboard that has an existing Graphics on board line the P8H67-M EVO?

2. Are the existing expansion slot enough to be able to cater my future requirements?

1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (blue)
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x4 mode, black)
1 x PCIe 2.0 x1
1 x PCI

Thanks in advance.
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post #6747 of 7891 Old 07-05-2011, 05:58 AM
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Hey guys !

My media server is built on a mini-itx Zacate board with 5 SATA and one PCIe 16x slot.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-019-_-Product (wthout the fan).
I have an additionnal PCIe card that adds 2 SATA III ports also.

I currently have a system SSD, and 6 2To green drives (5 for data, 1 for parity, I'm using Snapraid http://snapraid.sourceforge.net/ on a Windows7 system).
My problem is that I come short on space

I could update my system with an 8 SATA board and 3-4 PCI/PCie slots, but for the moment I'm very pleased with my Zacate and planned only a "small" upgarde of 2 or 4 disks.

What PCIe card hosting 4 or 8 SATA connectors (and compatible with my system) would you recommend ?
Price will be a very important factor, overall performance/build quality being right behind.
Of course I absolutely don't need SATA III on this card.
And I forgot the most important: I don't need any hardware raid on this card !

Any specific controler that I should avoid ?

Thanks
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post #6748 of 7891 Old 07-05-2011, 10:56 PM
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Plan on using FlexRaid again or maybe something else. Will be using this mostly for BD and DVD Folder playback. No need for HW Raid.

I have a i3 530 & Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H also a i3 530 & GA H55m S2H.

Would like to use 1 of them if possible in a build.

Norco 4224
Corsair TX750W CMPSU-750TX - from a old build pretty much brand new or should I just get a new one maybe the CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX850 or AX750
2 - Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 - Atleast 1 for now is this the best option for the price.
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 - I have this from a old build if I can use.

Will get the 120mm fan wall bracket so what are some good Fans. Should I replace the 2x80mm rear fans as well with something else.

Right now I would be using 12-14 drives. Mix of 1.5TB and 2.0TB WD Green. So I could also upgrade PSU/Motherboard later if needed.

Thanks
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post #6749 of 7891 Old 07-06-2011, 07:50 AM
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Hi !
Another question in order to upgrade my server.

I need a "3-in-2" adapter to fit 3 3,5" drives into 2 5"1/4 slots.

If you don't see what I mean, it's something like that:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...%20SATA%20I%2c

Except that this one is too expensive !
I don't need any cooling, any hot swap or things like this. Just want to fix 3 disks in 2 5"1/4 slots for a reasonable price.

I would also really like to have space to use "silencers" on the drives fixations... that's probably not english at all... I mean those little pieces of rubber to absorb drive vibrations.

Any idea ?
Thanks


Note: for instance something like this, a "4-in-3" would be great !!! Cheap and looks well built :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-002-_-Product
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post #6750 of 7891 Old 07-06-2011, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaaden View Post
Hi !
Another question in order to upgrade my server.

I need a "3-in-2" adapter to fit 3 3,5" drives into 2 5"1/4 slots.

If you don't see what I mean, it's something like that:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...%20SATA%20I%2c

Except that this one is too expensive !
I don't need any cooling, any hot swap or things like this. Just want to fix 3 disks in 2 5"1/4 slots for a reasonable price.

I would also really like to have space to use "silencers" on the drives fixations... that's probably not english at all... I mean those little pieces of rubber to absorb drive vibrations.

Any idea ?
Thanks


Note: for instance something like this, a "4-in-3" would be great !!! Cheap and looks well built :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-002-_-Product
Take a look at the Lian Li EX-23N. It's available in black or silver and costs around $30.
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