Guide To Building A Media Storage Server - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post

I believe the USAS designation means compatible with UIO slot only.

You may be right. I believe the supermicro card physically fits in their UIO slot.

The LSI version on the other hand is the same card/chipset but fits in a PCI express slot.
http://www.lsi.com/storage_home/prod...1er/index.html
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post #122 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pclausen View Post

Are any inexpensive solutions out there yet for setting up a network RAID in a home environment?

Network RAID allows you to tie multiple RAID 5/6 chassis together (let's say each is running a 24 * 1TB RAID6). It then allows you to span a single virtual volume across multiple chassis.

So if I have 10 chassis, each with 22TB of effective storage, and I set them all up as a network RAID5, I would end up with 198TB of storage.

The beauty is that I could loose not only up to 2 drives in any one chassis, but I could loose an entire chassis and my data would still be intact.

Another benefit is that there is no limit to how large I can grow my array. Just keep adding drives to the last chassis in the chain until it is filled up, then add another chassis and begin the process over.

LeftHand Networks is one company that offers this type of SAN (using 2U 12 drive chassis) in an iSCSI configuration. Not that it matters in a home environment, but as you add chassis, the performace increases as well since the data is striped across all the drives in all the chassis.

You aren't the only one that's dreamt about iSCSI at home, and in fact it's been an ongoing project trying to find a cost effective solution for home. We actually use Lefthand at the office but it's prohibitively expensive for home, plus the range of support for various I/O cards is limited. There are some companies that make inexpensive iSCSI target software, for example that let you turn a windows server into an iSCSI target, but I haven't gotten great performance from them yet. I tried using OpenSolaris + ZFS as an iSCSI target and performance was mediocre, on top of the lack of confidence I had on something based on OpenSolaris/ZFS (likely just my own inexperience with Linux).

Windows Server 2008 and Vista both have iSCSI functionality built in, and I'm trying to see if there's anything there that can be leveraged. For now iSCSI is still a realm that belongs to companies that charge a lot of money for their solutions.
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post #123 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 12:57 PM
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How do you guys keep your large servers cool?

I live in SoCal, and in the past couple of days the temperature has really gotten up there (>90F). This causes the room the server is in to become unbearably warm, even the carpet in that room is hotter than in others.
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post #124 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 01:29 PM
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what PSU are you guys using? with my current small file server i use a standard 500w PSU, when i start to build my media server(sometime early next year after the Holidays have passed) i know i will need something more reliable and powerful than the current 500w.
I am looking to start with 10x1tb raid 6 and will add 1tb drives and more money becomes available, i figure about 2k+ dvds to rip and just starting to build on BDs. i would like about 20tb 18tb useable when all done. how much of psu should i be looking at? 1kilwatt?

also, with the norco RPC-4020 case, what redundant psu will it hold? are any of you using a redundant psu? I know it is not as much of a big deal in a home situation as it would be in business world, but Lord forgive me if the server psu dies in the middle of Sex and the City, while wife is watching.

TIA for all the insight
this forum has been very helpful to me in the past months.


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post #125 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 02:44 PM
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I don't use redundant PSUs so can't help there. But the last one I bought was a Corsair TX650W which has a nice and powerful 52A (+12v) on a single rail that'll be very appropropriate for a large drive array.

The TX750W has 60A(+12V) single rail as well if you feel you'll need the extra power.

http://www.corsair.com/products/tx.aspx

Not really worth buying 1TB drives when you can get the 1.5TB's now for almost the same /TB cost so 13 x 1.5TB drives for 20TB. You'll be fine with either of these PSUs.
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post #126 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkLorD View Post

what PSU are you guys using? with my current small file server i use a standard 500w PSU, when i start to build my media server(sometime early next year after the Holidays have passed) i know i will need something more reliable and powerful than the current 500w.
I am looking to start with 10x1tb raid 6 and will add 1tb drives and more money becomes available, i figure about 2k+ dvds to rip and just starting to build on BDs. i would like about 20tb 18tb useable when all done. how much of psu should i be looking at? 1kilwatt?

also, with the norco RPC-4020 case, what redundant psu will it hold? are any of you using a redundant psu? I know it is not as much of a big deal in a home situation as it would be in business world, but Lord forgive me if the server psu dies in the middle of Sex and the City, while wife is watching.

TIA for all the insight
this forum has been very helpful to me in the past months.

PC Power & Cooling 750Watt Power Supply - $119 on newegg after rebate. That's the perfect P/S for the Norco RPC-4020. As I stated in another thread I don't care about redundant power for a server at home. If it blows up I buy another $120 P/S - big deal. The alternative is buying a much more expensive case, the Supermicro CSE-846TQ-R900B which will run you $700 more than the Norco case and be extremely noisy just to get dual-PSU's. At work, business and productivity is guaranteed a tad more with dual PSU's. At home it's a waste of money versus getting, say, a better TV or better amp/speakers with that extra money saved on not going dual PSU.

For the wifer, just keep a set-top DVD player + Sluts In The City box set on standby in case of server outage.

Since you're 'buying new' now with drives, you might consider going straight to 1.5Tb drives. Did you say you have 2000 DVD's to rip? I guess I'm not the only crazy one around here with a ridiculous DVD collection.

You're the second person today that's mentioned the need to rip over 1500 DVD's - i'm starting to wonder if we need a thread on building a ripping system for thousands of DVD's. I.e. a case with ten of the fastest DVD-RW drives available, dvd decrypter, etc. I actually perfected a whole assembly line including a method of dealing with unreadable/scratched disks that I handled on a separate computer without slowing down the main two ripping systems. As I stated earlier I could do 100-120 DVD's per hour with 10 DVD-R drives ripping. I didn't rip mine all at once, but over the course of months (2 hours here, three hours there, on the weekends).
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post #127 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 04:41 PM
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If anyone has a big pile of discs to rip, I'd recommend just getting a Sony VGP-XL1B off of ebay or the like. Some people have proposed wedging a Blu-ray drive in there, but I haven't seen anyone actually do it. Sony does sell a Blu-ray variant, but I believe it's rather expensive - $2000ish or so, and I'm not sure if it will work with 3rd party utilities. The VGP-XL1B can be had for a few hundred used. Although it's originally meant strictly for MCE, with the help of mediachanger.exe for XP or MTX on nix, you can easily write a script to batch-rip whatever you need to do. Load up 200 discs, let it run overnight. Sure beats manually swapping discs. Only problem is, since it uses firewire, Vista driver support is spotty - it caused my system to hang many times. I ended up connecting it to my laptop using a cardbus firewire card w/ XP. The other problem is discs with marginal read properties. The DVD-RW drive they decided to use is a Matsushita/Panasonic that doesn't tolerate scratched DVDs very well, so you may have to isolate and re-rip problematic discs. Still, even factoring that in, it's still more convenient than ripping one by one, or even multiple dvd drives going in parallel, since it's largely unattended after you do the initial load-up.
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post #128 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory View Post

PC Power & Cooling 750Watt Power Supply - $119 on newegg after rebate. That's the perfect P/S for the Norco RPC-4020. As I stated in another thread I don't care about redundant power for a server at home. If it blows up I buy another $120 P/S - big deal. The alternative is buying a much more expensive case, the Supermicro CSE-846TQ-R900B which will run you $700 more than the Norco case and be extremely noisy just to get dual-PSU's. At work, business and productivity is guaranteed a tad more with dual PSU's. At home it's a waste of money versus getting, say, a better TV or better amp/speakers with that extra money saved on not going dual PSU.


For the wifer, just keep a set-top DVD player + Sluts In The City box set on standby in case of server outage.
Ok that is what i thought. i rather not go with a more expensive case. i know my biggest spend will most likely be with a raid controller and hard drives. wifey will just have to deal with the down time. or rock the stb. I will go with the pc power and cooling or swap the 750 that is in my gaming machine and upgrade the gaming rig.

Since you're 'buying new' now with drives, you might consider going straight to 1.5Tb drives. Did you say you have 2000 DVD's to rip? I guess I'm not the only crazy one around here with a ridiculous DVD collection.
OK i didn't know that the price of the 1.5tb drives were that low i thought they would still bare the price of most new drives (upper 300 price) although i haven't looked hard into hdd prices just yet. one reason i was looking to 1tb drives were for the price drop once the 1.5tb become more readily available and the simple calculation use but if 1.5tbs are about the same as 1tbs then that is a simple choice

You're the second person today that's mentioned the need to rip over 1500 DVD's -
I have been collecting DVDs since i first got my creative dvd player with encore decoder card way back when...my first stb player was somewhere around 400 bucks or more can't remember exactly wifey had got it for me for Christmas the year it was first released

i'm starting to wonder if we need a thread on building a ripping system for thousands of DVD's. I.e. a case with ten of the fastest DVD-RW drives available, dvd decrypter, etc. I actually perfected a whole assembly line including a method of dealing with unreadable/scratched disks that I handled on a separate computer without slowing down the main two ripping systems. As I stated earlier I could do 100-120 DVD's per hour with 10 DVD-R drives ripping. I didn't rip mine all at once, but over the course of months (2 hours here, three hours there, on the weekends).

i found it very amazing how you were able to rip so many discs in such a short amount of time. right now i still have to pluck a disc off the shelf or sort through the many books just to pick out a movie, at times i feel like i spend more time looking for a good movie to watch then i do actually watching it, forget about me asking the wife to pick something, she just looks at shelf and tell me to just get what i like. the only things that really get ripped to the htpc are tv shows in series such as heroes and the Sara Connor chronicles. A media server is definitely long over due for me.A thread on a Ripping machine build up would be awesome, it would alleviat the dread of having to backup my entire server since re-ripping would not be as painful as if i had to do one disc at a time (in the even that the controller card was ever to fail or mobo. pictures and music collection can stay on the htpc with its 1tb mirror or even duplicated back to the server.)ohh i have been using anydvd HD to rip to hdd, i haven't ripped with dvd decrypter in a while.


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post #129 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory View Post

You're the second person today that's mentioned the need to rip over 1500 DVD's - i'm starting to wonder if we need a thread on building a ripping system for thousands of DVD's. I.e. a case with ten of the fastest DVD-RW drives available, dvd decrypter, etc. I actually perfected a whole assembly line including a method of dealing with unreadable/scratched disks that I handled on a separate computer without slowing down the main two ripping systems. As I stated earlier I could do 100-120 DVD's per hour with 10 DVD-R drives ripping. I didn't rip mine all at once, but over the course of months (2 hours here, three hours there, on the weekends).

What's your method? I have a few that I know are scratched.

I've only got ~600 discs, though. LOL!
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post #130 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory View Post

You're the second person today that's mentioned the need to rip over 1500 DVD's - i'm starting to wonder if we need a thread on building a ripping system for thousands of DVD's. I.e. a case with ten of the fastest DVD-RW drives available, dvd decrypter, etc.

That's a very good idea. Lol, at least with this build, no need to create different versions.

Question how much power does a system with 10 DVD drives require? Significantly more than a 10-HDD system?
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post #131 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Question how much power does a system with 10 DVD drives require? Significantly more than a 10-HDD system?

The power "draw" would probably be similar, since most optical drives are rated at ~ 5v/2A = 10w (give or take).

However, for the same "amount" of data, an optical drive has to spin a lot more (slower than an HDD, so has to spin for a much longer time to generate the same aount of data) than an HDD, so if you measured the "total" power consumption for a finite task, the HDD would probably win over optical.
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post #132 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 08:59 PM
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How do you guys remotely control your server? I plan to place mine in a rack down stairs, and would like to have easy access.
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post #133 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by aaomember View Post

How do you guys remotely control your server? I plan to place mine in a rack down stairs, and would like to have easy access.

I use a KVM over CAT5 adapter I got from ebay for cheap. It matches up nicely with the KVM switch and a local rack mount lcd monitor/keyboard (also from ebay)...
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post #134 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jason4207 View Post

What's your method? I have a few that I know are scratched.

I've only got ~600 discs, though. LOL!

I don't want to go into too much detail since the subject of disk repair always generates a ton more off-topic questions (i'll go into it in more detail if I do a bulk DVD/BD ripping guide) but start out by going to Circuit City, or Amazon and searching for "skipdr" - which will bring up a motorized scratch repair device. There are a lot of weird disk repair gimmicks out but that device works - I have two of them next to me hooked up to A/C adapters when I am in DVD ripping "assembly line mode". If DVD Decrypter starts throwing read errors I will eject the disc, throw it into the repair device, dry it off and pop it back in to the DVD-R drive. 90% of the time it will read the sectors it couldn't read before the repair, and finish the rip. If it keeps throwing read errors, I abort the rip, throw the disc into a "problem" pile, and on another day I'll deal with just the problematic disks, ala "Do I still care about this DVD? If yes, then attempt one or two more disk repair runs. Still not reading? Use toothpaste as a last resort to buff away more of the scratch (50% of time toothpaste works as last resort). After my most recent ripping session of two full 400-disc DVD binders, I ended up with a pile of 7 unreadables that not even disk scratch repair fixed, which was an acceptable ratio. The point of separating the problem disks off to the side and away from the main dvd ripping process is to not get sidetracked on a mission of trying to get that single problem disk to read, since that distracts from babysitting the other 9 drives that are ripping. 10 drives worth of "insert disk, specify output folder, click start, auto-eject on completion" activity really requires undivided attention. So, just some advice for now. More details and tips (like optimal dvd decrypter settings) in another thread perhaps.
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post #135 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 09:07 PM
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KVM over cat-5 adapter? I have a belkin ps/2 kvm, will the adapter work?
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post #136 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aaomember View Post

How do you guys remotely control your server? I plan to place mine in a rack down stairs, and would like to have easy access.

In Windows, Remote Desktop is your friend. Start -> Run -> mstsc /v: /console

the /console switch is relevant if you're connecting to a Windows Server 2000/2003/2008 operating system; if you're connecting to an XP or Vista machine, the /console switch will be ignored.
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post #137 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory View Post

In Windows, Remote Desktop is your friend. Start -> Run -> mstsc /v: /console

the /console switch is relevant if you're connecting to a Windows Server 2000/2003/2008 operating system; if you're connecting to an XP or Vista machine, the /console switch will be ignored.

Isn't it /admin instead of console now?


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post #138 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiBz View Post

You may be right. I believe the supermicro card physically fits in their UIO slot.

The LSI version on the other hand is the same card/chipset but fits in a PCI express slot.
http://www.lsi.com/storage_home/prod...1er/index.html

Hmm....always liked the Dell LSI cards.
Who said these things are less than $300?


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post #139 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by aaomember View Post

KVM over cat-5 adapter? I have a belkin ps/2 kvm, will the adapter work?

It should. It just looks like a long KVM cable to the switch. Having a local console (as many of the extenders support) also is nice.
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post #140 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 09:54 PM
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Hmm....always liked the Dell LSI cards.
Who said these things are less than $300?

I dunno .....
http://www.google.com/products?q=LSI...1E-R&scoring=p
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post #141 of 7891 Old 10-02-2008, 10:19 PM
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Wow you guys are funny, you guys talk about computers like my friends talk about airplanes!

Anyways thanks for your replies. As I would love a rig just to rip DVD's I am limited to the HTPC and the server, but I do have 3 laptops already in my living room with 6 DVD drives between them, if there were all networked to the server I could rip 6 at a time and not have to have any extra money involved. Anyways thanks for your time…


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post #142 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by alamone View Post

Just as a FYI, the 1.5TB detects fine in my Adaptec 51645 card, and I've successfully mounted it as a JBOD. I only bought 1 drive though, so I can't do any raid testing on it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...mpatible&Page=

I know it's only a newegg review, buuuut google to the rescue!

http://ask.adaptec.com/scripts/adapt...?p_faqid=15341

I am really in a love/hate relationship with the IOP348 processor on the 5 series Adaptecs and 1680ix Areca cards. If only it weren't so sleek, and irresistable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Sample unRAID builds (hard drives not included):

This is a GREAT resource if you are building an Unraid server and don't want to fiddle with exchanging incompatible components.

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/inde..._Compatibility

I added the Sabrent SBT-SRD4 and MSI KT4V to that wiki over a year ago! How nostalgic, and a far cry from my new server hardware

Once I get this 1680ix server stable, I might buy another 4020 case, and upgrade my Unraid box as a local backup server to complement my online storage for critical files.

Can't forget to pimp my email notification addon, I haven't had the time to respond to the thread since I created it, and it's still on the front page over a year later

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=911.0

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PC Power & Cooling 750Watt Power Supply - $119 on newegg after rebate. That's the perfect P/S for the Norco RPC-4020.

I can't find the darn references now, but when buying my 4020's PSU I hee-hawed between the PC P&C 750 and the Corsair 750. I found a few references to cheaper components being used in recently manufactured units for the PC P&C model now that OCZ has it's claws firmly embedded. Enough to make me go with the Corsair.

Probably just FUD.
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post #143 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 04:55 AM
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Hello,

First off I'd like to say thanks to odditory for kicking off this guide, I think it's a great idea and will be a great source of information.

I know that odditory, amongst others, is a great fan of Norco cases, and they do offer great value. I am in the middle of building a server myself, currently experimenting with ZFS (I admin a several Solaris 10 machines in the course of my work) using OpenSolaris, booting off either HDD or flash memory.

I would seriously consider using a Norco case myself, but my problem is with actually finding a supplier of these cases in the UK. I can find several US suppliers, but the shipping charges are always crippling and leave me going back to my Antec Twelve hundred tower with 4 X 5 into 3 drive bays.

Does anyone here know of a UK or EU based supplier of Norco cases, or have contact details for Norco so I can ask them about their distribution in the UK?

Thanks and best wishes,

Dave
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post #144 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by analogueaddict View Post

Hello,

First off I'd like to say thanks to odditory for kicking off this guide, I think it's a great idea and will be a great source of information.

I know that odditory, amongst others, is a great fan of Norco cases, and they do offer great value. I am in the middle of building a server myself, currently experimenting with ZFS (I admin a several Solaris 10 machines in the course of my work) using OpenSolaris, booting off either HDD or flash memory.

I would seriously consider using a Norco case myself, but my problem is with actually finding a supplier of these cases in the UK. I can find several US suppliers, but the shipping charges are always crippling and leave me going back to my Antec Twelve hundred tower with 4 X 5 into 3 drive bays.

Does anyone here know of a UK or EU based supplier of Norco cases, or have contact details for Norco so I can ask them about their distribution in the UK?

Thanks and best wishes,

Dave

I`m located in Norway and ended up buying directly from Norco. No European resellers and very few US stores (if any) are willing to ship abroad. If I remember correctly FedEx was about $250 and USPS $175. I chose the latter.. But still a nice price (atleast thats what I`m telling myself) considering the other rack mount alternatives.

.arve
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post #145 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 05:15 AM
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Thanks for the fast response .arve

This is typical of the kind of pricing I'm seeing. The trouble is that the Norco gives me around a $250 saving over the cost of an Antec plus drive bay expanders, but that advantage is being wiped out by the shipping costs, hence I keep going back to the Antec, but if they even had an EU distributor it would probably make it more cost effective.

Thanks and best wishes,

Dave
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post #146 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-san View Post

This is a GREAT resource if you are building an Unraid server and don't want to fiddle with exchanging incompatible components.

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/inde..._Compatibility

Yep. Got my Abit AB9 Pro based on that. Unfortunately, it hasn't been updated to include more recent components and some of the motherboards listed have become hard to find. The MSI P43 Neo3-F has been tested by jason to work. Just need more people to test it but I'm hopeful. The other two, I'm leaning towards the ASUS M2N-LR and I'll probably end up as guinea pig.
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post #147 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 07:47 AM
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One thing to consider is what type of mounting people may want. For example, I use a 19" rack, and would like to mount a 4020 in that rack. Does the rail kit allow for 19" rack ( center of case ) mounting?
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post #148 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by kenshin-san View Post

I can't find the darn references now, but when buying my 4020's PSU I hee-hawed between the PC P&C 750 and the Corsair 750. I found a few references to cheaper components being used in recently manufactured units for the PC P&C model now that OCZ has it's claws firmly embedded. Enough to make me go with the Corsair.

Probably just FUD.

I probably read the same thing about the PC P&C 750...right after I bought one for $100 shipped AR.

It's in my gaming rig now, and I haven't had any problems....yet.


The Corsair 750 was recently on sale for $83 shipped at Buy.com. I think it's gone up a bit, though.
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post #149 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory View Post

I don't want to go into too much detail since the subject of disk repair always generates a ton more off-topic questions (i'll go into it in more detail if I do a bulk DVD/BD ripping guide) but start out by going to Circuit City, or Amazon and searching for "skipdr" - which will bring up a motorized scratch repair device. There are a lot of weird disk repair gimmicks out but that device works - I have two of them next to me hooked up to A/C adapters when I am in DVD ripping "assembly line mode". If DVD Decrypter starts throwing read errors I will eject the disc, throw it into the repair device, dry it off and pop it back in to the DVD-R drive. 90% of the time it will read the sectors it couldn't read before the repair, and finish the rip. If it keeps throwing read errors, I abort the rip, throw the disc into a "problem" pile, and on another day I'll deal with just the problematic disks, ala "Do I still care about this DVD? If yes, then attempt one or two more disk repair runs. Still not reading? Use toothpaste as a last resort to buff away more of the scratch (50% of time toothpaste works as last resort). After my most recent ripping session of two full 400-disc DVD binders, I ended up with a pile of 7 unreadables that not even disk scratch repair fixed, which was an acceptable ratio. The point of separating the problem disks off to the side and away from the main dvd ripping process is to not get sidetracked on a mission of trying to get that single problem disk to read, since that distracts from babysitting the other 9 drives that are ripping. 10 drives worth of "insert disk, specify output folder, click start, auto-eject on completion" activity really requires undivided attention. So, just some advice for now. More details and tips (like optimal dvd decrypter settings) in another thread perhaps.

Awesome info!!!

Shoot me a link to that thread if you ever do a guide.

Thanks!
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post #150 of 7891 Old 10-03-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by analogueaddict View Post


I would seriously consider using a Norco case myself, but my problem is with actually finding a supplier of these cases in the UK. I can find several US suppliers, but the shipping charges are always crippling and leave me going back to my Antec Twelve hundred tower with 4 X 5 into 3 drive bays.

I'd like to solve this as well. On top of shipping there are also the potential customs / vat charges to be levied - as well as any admin fees from the couriers to handle this paperwork.

I don't plan on building my server for a month or so yet so I'm hoping the Norco magically becomes available this side of the atlantic before then.

I browse ebay daily living in hope!
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