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post #1 of 24 Old 10-22-2008, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,
i have recently built a new HTPC, the parts list is as follows:
ECS geforce 8200a mobo (am2+)
AMD phenom 9600 (quad)
4gb of Corsair ddr2 800 @4-4-4-12 (2x2gb)
Palit geforce 9600gt (1gb of ram, dual dvi, hdmi and display port out)
FYI: i won most of the stuff for free so i couldnt pick better stuff
Asus mycinema pcie tuner card (two inputs, one ATSC/clearQAM and one NTSC)
i have a couple of questions. my first and foremost question is how can i pass 5.1 audio over the HDMI out on the motherboard? the video card came with a little two pin connector that i hooked up to the SPDIF_O header on the motherboard.
2:i get verizon FiOS digital cable which has a ton of premium HDTV channles, it also has lots of standard chanels. i want to be able to watch and record both using both tuners on my card. The way i think that i can get premium HDTV is by hooking up the clearQAM/ATSC tuner on my cable tuner to the coax out on my Set top box? is this possible? and the NTSC tuner would get cable straight from the wall? if i do this, will i be able to get all my channels?
thanks for all the help
PS: i am a computer enthusiast (just never delved into the HTPC realm before) and an electrical engineer so dont be afraid to get technical on me, chances are ill know what your talking about
PPS: i am using vista home premium
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post #2 of 24 Old 10-22-2008, 03:59 PM
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The way i think that i can get premium HDTV is by hooking up the clearQAM/ATSC tuner on my cable tuner to the coax out on my Set top box? is this possible?

Congratulations on the windfall, nothing like winning some good stuff!
The short answer is "no" that won't work. The coax out on your set top box does not support ATSC (HD) signals, so that's out. You might check the FIOS thread to see if there is another solution (USB/Firewire)-
There is a card available that records HD via a component input, but kind of defeats your stated purpose.
I'd start by just hooking up your tuners to the wall and see what you get-you certainly can't hurt anything
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post #3 of 24 Old 10-22-2008, 04:11 PM
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FIOS does use QAM, but I understand it's nearly 100% encrypted.
At best you'll get what you can normally get OTA.

The only real solution it buy a full fledged Cable Card Equipped PC from a major OEM.

As for your Audio problem. I'd recomend running in hybrid mode as the 8200's HDMI port supports full 7.1 LPCM 24/192khz audio. The 9600 HDMI mode can only do DD and DTS or 2 channel audio. If you can't find an spdif header on your mobo for the 9600 then you'll get effectively the same thing using the spdif out on the back of your motherboard.

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post #4 of 24 Old 10-22-2008, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the reply. i should have probably been more specific about my set top box. it is a motorola QIP 6200-2 HD. it has all the standard analouge out puts, 2 firewire ports, an ethernet port and two usb ports, as well as an HDMI out and both optical and RCA style digital audio outs. i was under the assumption that since it was an HD STB it would output decrypted HD? as for the graphics card, i will try that later today. the HTPC is currently in a different room, so i cant really test everything directly on my theatre, but i plan on pulling cables this weekend. from what i read, it is probably easier to get HD on the PC via the firewire out on the STB? i could do this but i prefer to use the tuner card as it has a built in hardware based MP-2 decoder and i want as many free CPU cycles as possible so that i can get the best folding performance out of my rig
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post #5 of 24 Old 10-22-2008, 07:21 PM
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since it was an HD STB it would output decrypted HD

It will, but not over the coax connector - the only stb AFAIK that would do that was one from DISH a couple years back
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post #6 of 24 Old 10-22-2008, 07:22 PM
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it is probably easier to get HD on the PC via the firewire out on the STB?

And - there's most likely nothing easy about it - they actually go out of their way to make it hard
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post #7 of 24 Old 10-22-2008, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martini161 View Post

i have a couple of questions. my first and foremost question is how can i pass 5.1 audio over the HDMI out on the motherboard? the video card came with a little two pin connector that i hooked up to the SPDIF_O header on the motherboard.

are you using the 9600 with the system or are you just using the onboard video of the mother board?

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2:i get verizon FiOS digital cable which has a ton of premium HDTV channles, it also has lots of standard chanels. i want to be able to watch and record both using both tuners on my card.

Simply put... you CAN'T! with the system and tuner cards you have now.

in order to get the "premium" hd channels and DVR them with a PC, you either need to get a HD-PVR capture box: http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

problem is you need to have an HD box directly connected to it to feed the HD video into it to turn your PC into a DVR.

The other option is to purchase a bran new OEM pc, that support Cable Card Tuners, Fios is technically cable tv, it still uses the coax in your home to distribute the TV services, it uses the same QAM modulation like cable tv does, so with Cable Card tuners you can then get the Premium HD channels and DVR them like you want, however to get cable card tuners you have to purchase an OEM pc from vendors like Dell, Gateway, HP, Velocity Micro, Cannon PC, ect... You can't use Cable Card tuners on home built pc's.

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The way i think that i can get premium HDTV is by hooking up the clearQAM/ATSC tuner on my cable tuner to the coax out on my Set top box?

Nope doesn't work that way, and what I wrote above is the only two options that you have.

QAM is a modulation scheme that is used, and cable boxes decode that, like already mentioned most premium HD channels are encrypted, so you need something to decode that (IE a cable box or cable card tuner with supplied cable card) ATSC is off the air Digital SD/HD broadcast tv, has nothing to do with fios or cable tv.

The coax feed that comes directly out of the cable box is analog NTSC signal, so you won't get HD, you won't even get digital SD via the coax out of the cable box. Component Video, DVI, and or HDMI are the only ways of getting HD video out of a cable box.

- Josh
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post #8 of 24 Old 10-22-2008, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by martini161 View Post

from what i read, it is probably easier to get HD on the PC via the firewire out on the STB?

Sorry forgot to mention that. In most cases Firewire/1394 ports are disabled but if your lucky enough and fios doesn't disable them, and baring they don't have the 5c broadcast flag enabled on the firewire ports, that is certainly a viable option for getting HD video into a pc.

But if 5c is enabled it will only allow you to watch the HD feed, and NOT be able to record it.

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i could do this but i prefer to use the tuner card as it has a built in hardware based MP-2 decoder and i want as many free CPU cycles as possible so that i can get the best folding performance out of my rig

I think you mixing up terms and technology here. A tuner card is just that, a tuner, it "encodes" the video stream, NOT decode it. so your tuner card might have a hardware based mpeg2 decoder, but unless your tuner card is like the older MyHD MDP-130 where it also has a built in mpeg2 decoder and had actual video outputs along with its tuning, I highly doubt it has an mpeg2 decoder.

Secondly these days, specially with the hardware you listed above, there is no need to EVER worry about mpeg2 deocding as both the on board video as well as the video card you have both have hardware accelerated mpeg2 decoding built into them.

Lastly if the firewire is enabled and you can record the feed from the firewire, there is no need for the tuner card what so ever as the cable box will be the tuner, and your pc will just "download" the stream and save it.

- Josh
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post #9 of 24 Old 10-23-2008, 10:21 AM
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Why must you buy a complete OEM system in order to have cable tuner cards compatible with FIOS? There is absolutely no way to do this with an existing system plugging in the same exact models of cable tuner cards purchased separately? Or is there some "legal issues" with doing that which means we can't talk about any workaround?
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post #10 of 24 Old 10-23-2008, 10:34 AM
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Hey what about this device: Hauppauge HD-PVR.

Would this be a good solution for watching live and/or recording FIOS signals ?
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post #11 of 24 Old 10-23-2008, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by vorius View Post

Why must you buy a complete OEM system in order to have cable tuner cards compatible with FIOS?

requirements put forth by the cable labs group.

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There is absolutely no way to do this with an existing system plugging in the same exact models of cable tuner cards purchased separately? Or is there some "legal issues" with doing that which means we can't talk about any workaround?

not legal issues, but requirements put forth by cable labs, each system that can support cable cards has to be certified, a home built pc is not that. Also the cable card systems run a special OCUR bios, and finally the license of vista you need for it has an OCUR via key to activate the tuner card capabilities.


Quote:


Hey what about this device: Hauppauge HD-PVR.

Would this be a good solution for watching live and/or recording FIOS signals ?

As I pointed out in previous post, yes it will, however you need to have a fios HD cable box to feed the HD video into the HD-PVR.

the HD-PVR isn't a tuner box, so has not tuner capabiliites at all, all the HD-PVR does is capture video, and audio, so you need a cable box (a tuner) to decode and feed the HD video to the HD-PVR via component video cables.

- Josh
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post #12 of 24 Old 10-24-2008, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, now that we got the tuner thing sorted:
what about the video card? is there no way i can output 5.1 over the hdmi on the video card?
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post #13 of 24 Old 10-24-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martini161 View Post

ok, now that we got the tuner thing sorted:
what about the video card? is there no way i can output 5.1 over the hdmi on the video card?

The video card can pass DD or DTS, but it cannot due pure 5.1 LPCM.

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post #14 of 24 Old 10-24-2008, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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so my reciver supprots DTS, does that mean ill be able to get 5.1 from BLU-RAY movies (as thats all i really care about)
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post #15 of 24 Old 10-24-2008, 06:47 PM
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Yes, your receiver will get the sound and turn it into DD or DTS 5.1 if supported.

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post #16 of 24 Old 10-25-2008, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, so how do i do this?
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post #17 of 24 Old 10-27-2008, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by umdivx View Post

requirements put forth by the cable labs group.

not legal issues, but requirements put forth by cable labs, each system that can support cable cards has to be certified, a home built pc is not that. Also the cable card systems run a special OCUR bios, and finally the license of vista you need for it has an OCUR via key to activate the tuner card capabilities.

As I pointed out in previous post, yes it will, however you need to have a fios HD cable box to feed the HD video into the HD-PVR.

the HD-PVR isn't a tuner box, so has not tuner capabiliites at all, all the HD-PVR does is capture video, and audio, so you need a cable box (a tuner) to decode and feed the HD video to the HD-PVR via component video cables.

- Josh

hey thanks for the explanation Josh, I much appreciate it!

now, considering how much you know about these two alternatives: what would you personally recommend? getting a cable card ready oem pc or getting the HD-PVR?

my HTPC now is windows xp with sageTV software. It's got pretty decent hardware with core2 duo processor and nvidia 7 series video card. I use R5000 currently to capture my FIOS tv but I am not happy with it at all, which is why I am now exploring alternatives. it is terribly slow at changing channels (which is a multi-step process each with their own delays) and it has stability issues as well as problems with a few certain channels.

now, I imagine getting the HD-PVR would be a similar solution than the R5000 (I guess the R5000 is like having the HD-PVR modded into the STB instead of external, with IR blasters to change channels) which would mean it too would be terrible slow at changing channels- but I don't know.

I imagine a new cable card PC would be like my HTPC was before I got FIOS, where I had a dual standard cable tuner box which ran like a dream. Changed channels quickly, no stability issues, everything ran smooth...

what do you think?
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post #18 of 24 Old 10-27-2008, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by vorius View Post

hey thanks for the explanation Josh, I much appreciate it!

now, considering how much you know about these two alternatives: what would you personally recommend? getting a cable card ready oem pc or getting the HD-PVR?

my HTPC now is windows xp with sageTV software. It's got pretty decent hardware with core2 duo processor and nvidia 7 series video card. I use R5000 currently to capture my FIOS tv but I am not happy with it at all, which is why I am now exploring alternatives. it is terribly slow at changing channels (which is a multi-step process each with their own delays) and it has stability issues as well as problems with a few certain channels.

now, I imagine getting the HD-PVR would be a similar solution than the R5000 (I guess the R5000 is like having the HD-PVR modded into the STB instead of external, with IR blasters to change channels) which would mean it too would be terrible slow at changing channels- but I don't know.

I imagine a new cable card PC would be like my HTPC was before I got FIOS, where I had a dual standard cable tuner box which ran like a dream. Changed channels quickly, no stability issues, everything ran smooth...

what do you think?


well since the HD-PVR doesn't support Vista Media Center (no mpeg4 support), and that you already have SageTV which does support the HD-PVR that is a no brainer there.

But like you pointed out IR blaster, channel changing slowness issues.

Vista Media Center with Cable Card tuners isn't a good choice of channel changing speed is a priority for you.

I guess I don't channel surf much so It's never bothered me much, I DVR everything so that is all I ever really watch.

- Josh
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post #19 of 24 Old 10-27-2008, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by martini161 View Post

ok, so how do i do this?

I have a very similar computer (XFX GeForce 8200 board) and couldn't get DTS or Dolby Digital to play via the SPDIF connector until I installed this filter:

http://ac3filter.net/projects/spdifer

It lets the media applications know the motherboard can pass through these signals.
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post #20 of 24 Old 10-27-2008, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgyenese View Post

I have a very similar computer (XFX GeForce 8200 board) and couldn't get DTS or Dolby Digital to play via the SPDIF connector until I installed this filter:

http://ac3filter.net/projects/spdifer

It lets the media applications know the motherboard can pass through these signals.

that is really only needed if you are playing back media files like MKV, WMV's, ect... were the audio isn't in native AC3 audio stream.

If you are playing back a DVD, the DVD app just needs to be set to spdif pass through and your done.

- Josh
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post #21 of 24 Old 10-27-2008, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by umdivx View Post

that is really only needed if you are playing back media files like MKV, WMV's, ect... were the audio isn't in native AC3 audio stream.

If you are playing back a DVD, the DVD app just needs to be set to spdif pass through and your done.

- Josh

I was using Directv2PC and it wouldn't work until I installed the filter. It played all recordings in stereo even though they were in DD5.1 format. Maybe it isn't needed by the OP, but it might be worth a shot if what you suggest doesn't work. There are known issues with some GeForce 8200 based boards regarding SPDIF passthrough. This worked for me - YMMV.
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post #22 of 24 Old 10-27-2008, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by martini161 View Post

ok, so how do i do this?

(1) HDMI to receiver.

(2) Analog to receiver.

(3) SPDIF to receiver. (You're SOL, the board doesn't have one but...)
You have headers in the board to do this, make an SPDIF bracket or get a soundcard and be done with it.

Good luck.

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post #23 of 24 Old 11-02-2008, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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sorry for digging up an old thread but i need help
does anyone know what bios/software/driver settings i need to enable to have the HDMI on my motherboard outputting 1080p and sound to my reciver(then to my TV) but have my videocard drive my monitor? this seems like it would be the ideal solution (as i need to keep my video card for CUDA apps and for that they have to have a monitor connected to them)
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post #24 of 24 Old 11-03-2008, 12:16 AM
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The driver for HDMI is included in the Geforce drivers as a package but you have to install it independently. If you can find it, go to the NVidia site and download it.

You might want to look in the GF8200 thread, as there are plenty of solutions and answers to your questions.

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