The Inconvenient Truth about SPDIF Input! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 167 Old 03-16-2010, 08:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spivonious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
lol, that's what I get for not reading the whole thread. Personally, I would never be happy with watching movies with computer speakers.
spivonious is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 167 Old 03-16-2010, 11:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
anyone? thank-you/night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

Prolly the best solutions I've come across so far are: HDAV1.3 or Hometheatre HD

Quote: A main feature of the HTHD 7.1 is offering HDMI 1.3a I/O to the end user which allows full resolution, high definition audio with no down sampling. A very interesting feature of the HTHD 7.1 is the use of an external receiver is NOT required to have support for these high definition standards.
While the use of an external receiver is an option, the card allows any speaker system connected to the card to output Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS-HDMA in full resolution.


What's not certain to me yet is whether these cards can decode & do dac to DTS/DD content (HD or non-HD) coming via HDMI, instead of locally.

Even more ideal would be to use my existing Core i3-530 + motherboard w/HDMI-in...
But I'm not sure if Intel HD Graphics is able to receive A/V via HDMI, let alone decode w/approp. s'ware & redirect to 3rd party DAC.
I doubt it's able to, nor do I expect it'd be possible with sw updates & right mobo/adapters, but TBH I'm not 100% certain!

The main reasons I want something like this is to;
1) Send digi-Audio (HD or non-HD) to my PC to create virtual surround in stereo (CMSS, DH etc)...
2) Have a PAP* compliant solution so I can receive & play or locally play HD A/V, for the times I'm too lazy to rip/transcode.

It's a shame that I prolly won't be able to redirect decoded DD & DTS formats to my Essence ST + H6 for superior analogue output.
I suspect that'd break the PAP/xxx....
So for analogue-out of received or locally played HD DD & DTS, I'll be forced to use the same card.
Unless I've gone to the effort of ripping & transcoding beforehand...

*forgotten what the video equivalent is called

jalyst is offline  
post #93 of 167 Old 03-17-2010, 06:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spivonious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Intel HD Graphics is not able to receive an HDMI signal.

The Asus card works by taking the HDMI from a video card and processing it, so there is no reason why it wouldn't work from an external source. It doesn't know where the signal is coming from.
spivonious is offline  
post #94 of 167 Old 03-17-2010, 06:49 AM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post

Intel HD Graphics is not able to receive an HDMI signal.

yeah I suspect this true...

Quote:


The Asus card works by taking the HDMI from a video card and processing it, so there is no reason why it wouldn't work from an external source. It doesn't know where the signal is coming from.

Apparently these sort of cards can only only ever do pass-through, but not from external sources
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post18321943
jalyst is offline  
post #95 of 167 Old 03-17-2010, 03:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
vladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

Prolly the best solutions I've come across so far are: HDAV1.3 or Hometheatre HD

I never thought of this before but you can capture 5.1 Dolby Digital with the Hauppauge HD-PVR. I don't think it works for DTS though. I might have to try it.
vladd is offline  
post #96 of 167 Old 03-17-2010, 09:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

I never thought of this before but you can capture 5.1 Dolby Digital with the Hauppauge HD-PVR. I don't think it works for DTS though. I might have to try it.

Yeah but surely that'd be more tricky to do in RT than just using a scard with s/pdif-in as you'd have to convert the analogue output back into a digital format before being able to decode, apply any effects, then do DAC.

Still, I'd be interested to hear the outcome of your testing if you've got one handy
jalyst is offline  
post #97 of 167 Old 03-19-2010, 02:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Zon2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
I think this fits in this thread. Is there an easy way to capture a Dolby Digital stream via spdif, convert the stream on the fly to stereo, and save it as a stereo MP3?

Two parts - first, what spdif to USB input device will allow the passthrough of the AC3 stream, and second, what software can convert that stream and save it as an MP3 file?

I've read through this thread and it seems most of the discussion is about creating 5.1 output, but I thought the folks in this thread might be knowledgable about the reverse as well.

Thanks.
Zon2020 is offline  
post #98 of 167 Old 03-19-2010, 07:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jimwhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL USA
Posts: 5,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I believe AC3 filter will downmix it like that for you...

Jim White
St. Petersburg, FL
jimwhite is offline  
post #99 of 167 Old 03-19-2010, 09:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

I think this fits in this thread. Is there an easy way to capture a Dolby Digital stream via spdif, convert the stream on the fly to stereo, and save it as a stereo MP3?

Two parts - first, what spdif to USB input device will allow the passthrough of the AC3 stream, and second, what software can convert that stream and save it as an MP3 file?

I've read through this thread and it seems most of the discussion is about creating 5.1 output, but I thought the folks in this thread might be knowledgable about the reverse as well.

Thanks.

Just straight stereo, no surround effects mixed-in from the DD 5.1?
Why would you want to do that? Not criticising just curious.

Cheers
jalyst is offline  
post #100 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 06:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spivonious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My old Audigy had an optical in...not sure if you could record from it though.
spivonious is offline  
post #101 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 06:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What original audigy?
I think i got one of them too lying around from donkeys year ago.
Do you know if they could do dd/dts 5.1? (prolly to old for that)
I thought I read they don't have optical-in.
Still prolly be pretty crap all up....
jalyst is offline  
post #102 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 09:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
vladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

Yeah but surely that'd be more tricky to do in RT than just using a scard with s/pdif-in as you'd have to convert the analogue output back into a digital format before being able to decode, apply any effects, then do DAC.

Still, I'd be interested to hear the outcome of your testing if you've got one handy

That would have been true with the original drivers but they released an update quite a while back that will accept and pass AC-3 via SPDIF. No decoding is done (unless you have your player doing it for realtime playback). So the audio will stay in the digital domain (but of course any video would be analog but that's outside the scope of this thread).

Unfortunately, I no longer have any devices with AC-3 output since I turned in my cable box. I'll see if I can output from one PC to another but they are set up some distance apart so it may not be easy. I'll also ask some fellow GBPVR users to test it for me.
vladd is offline  
post #103 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 09:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

That would have been true with the original drivers but they released an update quite a while back that will accept and pass AC-3 via SPDIF. No decoding is done (unless you have your player doing it for realtime playback). So the audio will stay in the digital domain (but of course any video would be analog but that's outside the scope of this thread).

Unfortunately, I no longer have any devices with AC-3 output since I turned in my cable box. I'll see if I can output from one PC to another but they are set up some distance apart so it may not be easy. I'll also ask some fellow GBPVR users to test it for me.

what so they've essentially made the HD-PVR a digi pass-through device for audio? (s/pdif)
I thought it was only capable of being an analogue output capture device?

Night.
jalyst is offline  
post #104 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 09:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
vladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

what so they've essentially made the HD-PVR a digi pass-through device for audio? (s/pdif)
I thought it was only capable of being an analogue output capture device?

Night.

Analog HD video via component (hardware encoded to H.264) but the audio can be analog 2 channel or AC-3.
vladd is offline  
post #105 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 09:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
oh right so essentially digi-capture for audio? thanks.
jalyst is offline  
post #106 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 09:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
vladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

oh right so essentially digi-capture for audio? thanks.

Yup, and actually I don't need to test because GBPVR passes it on live TV or from recordings (depending on your decoder configuration). So it would really be a matter of just creating a small app to pass audio only if that's what you wanted. I've already got some code that could be modified for it (I posted it somewhere on this forum).
vladd is offline  
post #107 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 09:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hmm I like the sound of the hd-pvr the more i hear about it ....
I was already interested because its amongst the best supported for analogue capture in Linux.
Sux that its external and so large though, would prefer PCI/e form-factor.

definitely good-night.
jalyst is offline  
post #108 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 02:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spivonious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The opticals were on the 5.25" drive bay box with the Audigy.
spivonious is offline  
post #109 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 09:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Zon2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

Just straight stereo, no surround effects mixed-in from the DD 5.1?
Why would you want to do that? Not criticising just curious.

Cheers

I just want to create an MP3 file of those tracks to play on my iPod.
Zon2020 is offline  
post #110 of 167 Old 03-20-2010, 09:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post

The opticals were on the 5.25" drive bay box with the Audigy.

That's right, it think i still got that somewhere.
Can you recall if it was dd/dts 5.1 decode capable? prolly not....
jalyst is offline  
post #111 of 167 Old 04-02-2010, 02:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Andy o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Actually, the problem is not if the SPDIF input can take in AC3 or DTS signals, the only requirement in theory would be that it take in bit-perfect 2-channel 16-bit 44.1 kHz PCM. DTS and DD signals can be wrapped in this PCM format to be interpreted and decoded later. This is how DTS CDs work, and there are plenty of "DTS wav" and "DD wav" files on the net, which you can play in any player that outputs bit-perfect PCM (i.e. using exclusive mode in Vista/7), and decode in your receiver. That player does NOT need DD or DTS "support" at all. Similarly, any standalone CD player with SPDIF output can output this stereo PCM 44.1 kHz signal to the receiver, regardless of the CD player not supporting DTS. It's kind of a hack workaround.
Andy o is offline  
post #112 of 167 Old 06-12-2010, 01:11 PM
Newbie
 
parvulus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ultimately, the solution I went with to fix my problem was to get an Extigy USB "sound card" from ebay. So far this works great, and it only cost me about 20 or 30 USD, which seems like a great deal to me. It has been able to decode everything I've tried it with so far, even if it isn't plugged into a computer. In fact, it is so old it doesn't have any support for Windows 7, but I just output the audio from the PC to the sound card through SPDIF (I don't use a USB cable at all).

If you already have computer speakers and don't want to buy a whole home theater setup, when there's only a few things you need speakers for aside from your computer, devices like the Extigy are perfect. It's definitely a compromise, because it is almost like just purchasing a receiver or pre/pro or something, everything is external and the computer has no access to the decoded audio. On the upside, it's very cheap and the audio quality seems excellent so far. The extigy isn't made anymore but I saw a number of similar devices; I'm sure many of them can decode DTS/DD from SPDIF.

However, this obviously won't help at all in capturing and saving the raw SPDIF input, for that you need a bit-perfect sound card as has been discussed (and of course, a bit perfect sound card may well be unable to decode surround SPDIF input in real time, so it isn't ideal either unless it can and will do hardware decoding)

I don't know why so many people react with incredulity when you try to find a way to play surround sound from a non-computer source on computer speakers. It's a much more sensible solution than buying an entirely new set of speakers, a receiver, and all the cables that would go along with it. Some computer speakers can even produce quite impressive sound quality. It's a shame that there really seems to be no internal sound card capable of decoding and manipulating SPDIF surround sound signals adequately.

Sorry for reviving an old thread - I still think this is the best thread on the web for the topic though.
parvulus is offline  
post #113 of 167 Old 06-13-2010, 04:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a few leads for internal, more modern, cards that "might" be perfect for the job.
But I've dropped this whole thing for the time being, as it's way down the list of things I want to complete.
I'll be sure to share when I pick it up again...

You're not wrong about the incredulity some people react with, this forum has it's fair share of "elitists", but what forum doesn't.
More importantly there's even more nice people, whom are actually happy to share their knowledge in a friendly way.
jalyst is offline  
post #114 of 167 Old 06-13-2010, 12:19 PM
Newbie
 
kregoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Alright after many days of messing around with this i actually got it to work. and no i am not making this up i am getting true surround sound from ps3 from my omega striker card.

First thing you need to do is set your PS3 to optical out and select DTS as the only selection for sound.

Next download AC3Filter and Media Player Classic Home Cinema and follow these instructions

After installing AC3filter and the correct drivers. Open MPC-HC, go to View > Options and select Output.
Important: Under DirectShow Audio make sure the right output is selected (not system default), in my case this is Speakers (HT Omega Striker 7.1.
Go to Filter Settings and make sure everything there is unchecked, (all of them including external) then continue to Audio Switcher and disable the built in audio switcher.
Continue to external filters, choose Add Filter and select AC3Filter, press OK and make sure it is set to prefer.
You can now close Media Player Classic Home Cinema.

Locate the AC3Filter config in the start menu under Programs. This will bring up the following dialog. Set Output format to something that matches your speaker configuration.

Continue to the SPDIF tab, and make sure the settings under SPDIF passthrough match the following screenshot.



Then continue to the System tab and make sure it matches the following screenshot.



Now press OK so it saves your options.

Now open Up MPC-HC Agian and click File open device and select your SPDIF input

Everything should work (Please note i have only tested this on my omega striker so i am not sure which cards this will work for but should work for anything with a optical input) There is also a tiny delay but nothing to extreme sometime you may need to restart MPC to regain audio if it freezes.
kregoth is offline  
post #115 of 167 Old 06-13-2010, 12:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
H8nXTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Nice work, but there's one thing I'm not sure about, you've selected "2/2 - quadro", doesn't that make the output 4 channel? Shouldn't you choose the "3/2+SW 5.1 channels" for full surround output?

Also what does the "Interface update rate (ms)" default of 50 changed to 100 do?
H8nXTC is offline  
post #116 of 167 Old 06-13-2010, 12:49 PM
Newbie
 
kregoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by H8nXTC View Post

Nice work, but there's one thing I'm not sure about, you've selected "2/2 - quadro", doesn't that make the output 4 channel? Shouldn't you choose the 5.1 (w/ SW) for full surround output?

Actually those aren't my screen caps. i got them from a website that had these instructions for hdmi sound. i would have posted the link but i cant sadly lol

but here is the url info

blogo.biz/?p=24

I selected 3/2+sw 5.1 channels
kregoth is offline  
post #117 of 167 Old 06-13-2010, 09:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kregoth View Post

Alright after many days of messing around with this i actually got it to work. and no i am not making this up i am getting true surround sound from ps3 from my omega striker card....

That's one of the cards on my short-list, but thanks for sharing.
There's an app (can't recall right now) to deal with (to some extent) a/v de-sync.
jalyst is offline  
post #118 of 167 Old 06-14-2010, 12:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andy o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by parvulus View Post

I don't know why so many people react with incredulity when you try to find a way to play surround sound from a non-computer source on computer speakers. It's a much more sensible solution than buying an entirely new set of speakers, a receiver, and all the cables that would go along with it. Some computer speakers can even produce quite impressive sound quality. It's a shame that there really seems to be no internal sound card capable of decoding and manipulating SPDIF surround sound signals adequately.

The thing is that for better or worse, the market has spoken. In the early days of computer surround speaker sets, there were a few dedicated decoders that either were sold separately from the computer speakers, or came integrated. They have died out though. Most people don't have amplified speakers so they'd need an amp anyway for their home theater, and if it's from their computer, pretty much all programs now can do the decoding, so it's a very niche market here.

I have the DDTS-100, which I got for free when I bought my Cambridge Soundworks 6.1 system years ago. I think it went for around $100 at the time, and now a quick check on ebay shows one sold for as high as $242. There were others too. I have come to hate Creative and its products especially since they have gone a bit to the snake-oil side, but the DDTS-100 is one finely designed gadget.

In fact, it came with plenty of digital inputs (3 optical, 1 coax) and a switch that let you bypass the decoder (for your computer's analog out, since it doesn't have multichannel analog inputs):
Quote:


The switchbox should tip you off that the DDTS-100 is aimed at gamers who have their PC and console/s in the same area, e.g. a bedroom, dorm room, small office, etc.

This is about the most perfect device for your guys' needs, but the fact that it died a relatively quick death says something about how small the market was. You guys can probably get some relatively cheap second-hand speaker sets which had integrated decoders. I remember both Logitech and Creative (maybe even Klipsch) making them.

EDIT: Logitech still sells the Z-5500. They're expensive though, but if you are considering a speaker upgrade, you can sell yours I guess.
Andy o is offline  
post #119 of 167 Old 06-14-2010, 01:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
jalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 672
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No good for me...

I want to capture the stream (if I can find the right card/software), pass it through a Dolby Headphones filter (or similar), and then do stereo (w/simulated surround) DAC.

Ideally I'd like DAC to be handled by a different card (Essence ST) to the one used to capture the DD/DTS stream.

I have a few ideas/leads but I've not investigated further for months, other priorities.
I think you responded in one of my threads
jalyst is offline  
post #120 of 167 Old 06-14-2010, 02:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andy o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Yeah, and I think you already know about The JVC SU-DH1 and similar gadgets right?
Andy o is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off