HDCP only from DVI, audio only from HDMI, weird - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 02-24-2009, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Just got a new HP m9500t media center with cable card. I can get either the HDCP content to work, or I can get the sound to work, but not both. Here's the setup:
* HP m9500t with Vista 64 bit & Digital cable support
* AT TvWonder external digital tuner (with cable card)
* Nvidia GeForce 9500 GS video card
* Couple analog tuners and other fun stuff
* Vizio HDM 50P plasma TV with HDMI (supports HDCP)

The video card has HDMI, DVI and VGA out ports. If I hook up this way, then the HDCP-protected channels work fine, but there's no sound.
Media Center --> DVI out --> DVI to HDMI converter cable --> HDMI in on Vizio

On the other hand if I hook it up this way, then the sound works fine over HDMI, but I get a message saying "your video card may not support HDCP" and my high def channels don't work.
Media Center --> HDMI out --> Standard HDMI cable to TV --> HDMI in on Vizio

I tried an older (non HDCP) video card, and sound worked fine using the converter cable, so I don't think that's the issue. Has anyone seen anything similar? Any ideas?
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post #2 of 11 Old 02-24-2009, 03:15 PM
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Are you using your terminology correctly?

Standard DVI-HDMI cables chop off the audio output from what I've seen, using them on a graphics card that otherwise outputs audio via DVI. This makes sense though, because DVI doesn't't have audio included in the cable specs.
However, for cards that use special dongle adapters, I think they use a dual-link cable, but passing passing video on one link, and audio seperately. if you look at standard DVI-HDMI cables, they are always single-link only for the pins on the DVI side.
If you look at HDMI specs, you'll notice multiple data-channels. I think one is used for audio and they aren't merged, so it's easy to see that the special dongles wire the pins to pass both links to the appropriate HDMI pins. I think they wrote HDMI to be at least partial backwards compatible with DVI.
.

So basically, you have a standard DVI-HDMI cable, yet a non-standard DVI interface trying to pass audio.

That's probably why. You need the special dongle though I'm not familiar with nVidia cards for this.
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post #3 of 11 Old 02-24-2009, 04:40 PM
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Your NVIDIA card apparently only supports both video and audio over it's HDMI output connection and does not support an internal audio connection to support audio output over it's DVI connection. ATI cards with audio over DVI output use a special dongle as indicated above.
With HDMI the video and audio are multiplexed over the signal connections so no special cables are required a regular HDMI-HDMI cable will work fine.
Your second configuration should work fine.
What driver release from Nvidia are you using with OS release?
What resolution are you sending over the HDMI interface?
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post #4 of 11 Old 02-24-2009, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I double checked with NVidia directly and apparently this particular card does not support audio over the DVI port, so that explains part of it. However, I'm still stuck unable to get HDCP support on the HDMI-->HDMI connection. I'm on the latest driver (182.06 which was released last week). I know it's not the monitor or the computer, since the DVI output works just fine with the adapter. So it must be something with settings/driver/video card/etc that's causing the problem with the HDMI output.

Any other ideas?
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post #5 of 11 Old 02-24-2009, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Now HP is telling me that the HDMI output on the video card *only* supports 1080P, and not 720P, which is why HDCP doesn't work for me. That sounds really fishy to me though...
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post #6 of 11 Old 02-24-2009, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrean View Post

Now HP is telling me that the HDMI output on the video card *only* supports 1080P, and not 720P, which is why HDCP doesn't work for me. That sounds really fishy to me though...

Take their response with a grain of salt.. I've dealt with the likes of support for Gateway, Dell, Compaq (in the day) and HP. Back in my younger years I did IT admin and support for a University college. But our agreement was with student laptops too. Let's just say you get much better support with a business contract from a computer company. In fact, consumer computer support blows to be honest... So we were forced to do the less help consumer support lines for things like warranties and such. We couldn't use our "business support" options on a consumer laptop.

In my dealings, Let's just say if you didn't escalate this high enough you could be getting inaccurate info (it can actually be tricky to know when it's been escalated to the point where you should get a proper answer from someone knowledgeable). In fact talking on a forum will probably get you farther. There was a generation of nVidia cards *7000, maybe 8000* that had HDCP as an option and many didn't, but now they all do because the demand is there. Also aren't the lowerend 9000 series nVidia video only?
Yes Jeff the 1080p is really suspicious. 720p is certainly a mainstay in HD. You probably want to escalate the call with them, especially if it's branded by HP.
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post #7 of 11 Old 02-25-2009, 07:55 AM
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I think the HP rep has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.
I am surprised that MC is giving you the message about HDCP over the HDMI connector.
However since the card apparently does not support audio over HDMI then I suggest that you use the DVI out and the DVI-HDMI converter cable and then connect the audio out from your system to a HDMI port on your TV that also supports Red and White stereo inputs. (check your TV user manual for details there is probably only one HDMI input that supports either HDMI or R&W audio input)
You can get a minipin computer audio output connector to R&W audio cable connector at Radio Shack.
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post #8 of 11 Old 02-25-2009, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm with you... except I have a Vizio HDM 50P, which apparently does not *actually* allow you do do analog audio in along with HDMI video. The manual says it does, and the connectors are there (and I have the minpin connector), but as discussed on other threads on this form, the analog audio is just ignored. It's really frustrating because I can get 95% of the way to a working media center with each approach... just not quite all the way there.

I seperately pinged NVidia asking if the card indeed did not support 720P and am waiting for a response. If they say it should, then I'll contact HP support again and see if that can get me escalated to someone who knows what they're talking about.
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post #9 of 11 Old 02-25-2009, 05:52 PM
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With many HDTVs that have one HDMI port that supports either HDMI audio or R&W audio there is also a setting in the TV to tell it which to use since it does not automatically detect the R&W signal and switch to it.
Of course the card supports 720p I have never seen an NVIDIA card that does not in the last 4 years.
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post #10 of 11 Old 03-08-2009, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I finally got this all figured out.
* The reason that DVI out --> HDMI Converter --> HDMI in to TV has no audio is because the 9500 GS card won't munge audio with the DVI out for conversion to HDMI like some other cards.
* The reason that the HDMI out --> HDMI in to the TV didn't work is there are handshake problems between the older Vizio HDM 50P and the media center. In theory they should work together, but in practice, this particular combination doesn't agree on HDCP.
* The reason the video signal was fine doing DVI out and didn't complain about HDCP, is for some reason the computer didn't think it was a "high def" signal, so it didn't try to apply copy protection. It works fine if you use VGA or component out as well, no problems.
* I hooked the same media center up to a different projector (Sony receiver/Mitsubishi projector) and everything is working fine. I'm using a media center extender with the Vizio now, and that works fine as well.
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post #11 of 11 Old 03-08-2009, 11:36 AM
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Not all Hi Def signals require HDCP only those from some sources and those from HD or BR disks. Since VGA and Component are broadcasst and not handshaking protocols they can not support HDCP and work since none of the studios have implemented the flag that requires that HD content be downscaled to SD resolution for other then digital output that supports HDCP.
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