*Official* Asus XONAR HDAV Slim Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3195 Old 06-16-2009, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

True, but I was speaking from a real world perspective. In theory this could happen, but in reality it will not.

MS will never put support into their driver. If they did, the EU would instantly sue them. They are trying to turn MS into a new continuous revenue stream for the EU.

I fail to see how that would cause the EU to sue them, a PAP interface is just something that would facilitate other people to produce products to run on their OS. It's no different then putting DX compute into the next version of DX. It's just a feature in a driver. That was an app could querery the driver, hey do you support feature X and if it did then it could use feature X.

MS providing a framework for DRM is not persecutable behavior.

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post #542 of 3195 Old 06-16-2009, 02:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I fail to see how that would cause the EU to sue them, a PAP interface is just something that would facilitate other people to produce products to run on their OS. It's no different then putting DX compute into the next version of DX. It's just a feature in a driver. That was an app could querery the driver, hey do you support feature X and if it did then it could use feature X.

MS providing a framework for DRM is not persecutable behavior.

I fail to see how putting IE inside Windows would cause the EU to sue them. They did it anyway.

Now you did it, they are going to sue over DX next.
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post #543 of 3195 Old 06-16-2009, 02:24 PM
 
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The one thing which will hold me back from purchasing this card, when it is available, is the lack of driver support for Vista SP2.

As of right now, it appears this card will not work properly in Vista SP2.
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post #544 of 3195 Old 06-16-2009, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I fail to see how putting IE inside Windows would cause the EU to sue them. They did it anyway.

Now you did it, they are going to sue over DX next.

Well IE is an app and if they didn't include it people could sell competing products, but with IE as a bundled app it devaules other browsers.

A framework that allows 3rd parties to compete on a level playing field shouldn't be an area of contention.

Of course if they did provide a framework and standardization for PAP you'd have people coming out of the woodwork saying the sky is falling and that spdif won't work anymore for copyprotected yadda yadda yadda, perfomance in the tank, HDCP For sytem sounds, yadda yadda yadda.

Back to the topic of conversation.

Yeah they need to get their driver support sorted as wll as the TMT3 WMC plugin sorted.

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post #545 of 3195 Old 06-16-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Well IE is an app and if they didn't include it people could sell competing products, but with IE as a bundled app it devaules other browsers.

A framework that allows 3rd parties to compete on a level playing field shouldn't be an area of contention.

Of course if they did provide a framework and standardization for PAP you'd have people coming out of the woodwork saying the sky is falling and that spdif won't work anymore for copyprotected yadda yadda yadda, perfomance in the tank, HDCP For sytem sounds, yadda yadda yadda.

Back to the topic of conversation.

Yeah they need to get their driver support sorted as wll as the TMT3 WMC plugin sorted.

It's not like Mac's don't come bundled with Safari. I honestly don't think there is any legitimacy to the whole claim. If MS wants IE on their install so be it. All I care about is can I uninstall it ... if I want to. (It's not like you can't easily make another browser your main one anyway).
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post #546 of 3195 Old 06-17-2009, 04:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kronic24601 View Post

It's not like Mac's don't come bundled with Safari. I honestly don't think there is any legitimacy to the whole claim. If MS wants IE on their install so be it. All I care about is can I uninstall it ... if I want to. (It's not like you can't easily make another browser your main one anyway).

I was told it is because people like IE and therefor MS is not allowed to bundle it, but almost no one like Safari.

Over 90% of Europeans use IE, so the EU (which hates Europeans) says MS cannot preinstall what people want. If 90% of the people use something it is considered a monopoly in Europe and must be stopped.

I know, I know, installing other browsers is easy, free, and fast, but the EU has to ensure Europeans cannot easily use what they like the most.

That and MS is rich so they want to take money from it.
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post #547 of 3195 Old 06-17-2009, 08:44 AM
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What I don't get is how are you going to get on the internet if you don't have a browser installed? I know that EU recently suggested Microsoft including all browsers and upon installation the user gets the option of which they will use. But before they were suggesting no browsers were to be included, which makes absolutely no sense.

Anyways, I can't wait to hear more info on this card. I would like to upgrade from the onboard HD audio to a dedicated card and I really like the features of this one.
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post #548 of 3195 Old 06-17-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

The one thing which will hold me back from purchasing this card, when it is available, is the lack of driver support for Vista SP2.

As of right now, it appears this card will not work properly in Vista SP2.

I hope you'll make your voice heard in the Asus forum.

http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx...Language=en-us

It's absurd that Asus was unprepared but even more infuriating they haven't at least responded that a fix is coming.
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post #549 of 3195 Old 06-17-2009, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dabl View Post

I hope you'll make your voice heard in the Asus forum.

http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx...Language=en-us

It's absurd that Asus was unprepared but even more infuriating they haven't at least responded that a fix is coming.

Yes, but if a joint driver/player release with Arcsoft is necessary, it will take more time to develop. They might be looking at a Win7, and Vista SP2, compatible definitive release.


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post #550 of 3195 Old 06-17-2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Yes, but if a joint driver/player release with Arcsoft is necessary, it will take more time to develop. They might be looking at a Win7, and Vista SP2, compatible definitive release.

1st SP2 has been available to developers since last year. How much more time do think is needed?

2nd Arcsoft says that TMT is fully SP2 ready and that it is ASUS that is dropping the ball.
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post #551 of 3195 Old 06-17-2009, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by William View Post

1st SP2 has been available to developers since last year. How much more time do think is needed?

2nd Arcsoft says that TMT is fully SP2 ready and that it is ASUS that is dropping the ball.

Well, no. PAP is a player/driver enforced requirement, and needs to be tested/developed therefore by both ASUS and Arcsoft, and I suspect that Arcsoft, being the smaller company, could be the "bottleneck".


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post #552 of 3195 Old 06-17-2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Yes, but if a joint driver/player release with Arcsoft is necessary, it will take more time to develop. They might be looking at a Win7, and Vista SP2, compatible definitive release.

That would be a reasonable argument I suppose, however one of them should at least *acknowledge* the problem.

There's at least a workaround for Win 7 with the current version of the driver......
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post #553 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 02:07 AM
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i wouldn't keep the hope too high, after talking to my friend, although not working for asus, but still a software/hardware engineer in taiwan. he told me he's not surprised of what i said, lots of engineers were sent home because of company's cost cutting policy.
that makes sense, i know what taiwan is like, i wonder how many so experienced engineers are still working day and night for this poor driver that you are waiting for
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post #554 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I was told it is because people like IE and therefor MS is not allowed to bundle it, but almost no one like Safari.

Over 90% of Europeans use IE, so the EU (which hates Europeans) says MS cannot preinstall what people want. If 90% of the people use something it is considered a monopoly in Europe and must be stopped.

I know, I know, installing other browsers is easy, free, and fast, but the EU has to ensure Europeans cannot easily use what they like the most.

That and MS is rich so they want to take money from it.

OK, someone needs to step in and talk some sense here. The reason why MS can't get away with it is cause they have a de facto monopoly on the OS market for desktop PCs. If they deliver an internet brower, media player, ... etc with that OS, competing companies in those areas don't stand a chance. Remember, the case they lost regarding the bundling of IE with Windows came out of a complaint made by Netscape.

Also, most people I have recommended Firefox to like it better than IE. A lot of them weren't even them aware of the fact that alternative browsers even exist.
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post #555 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 01:31 PM
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Ok so ... back to the item at hand. Has anyone gotten one of these units yet? It looks like they are available (or perhaps these sites are misleading??)

http://www.provantage.com/asus-xonar...m~7ASU911H.htm

http://www.superduperclub.net/dhxonarhdav13slim.html
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post #556 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kronic24601 View Post

Ok so ... back to the item at hand. Has anyone gotten one of these units yet? It looks like they are available (or perhaps these sites are misleading??)

http://www.provantage.com/asus-xonar...m~7ASU911H.htm

http://www.superduperclub.net/dhxonarhdav13slim.html

I would avoid SuperDuperClub if this is the same one listed in Reseller Ratings.

Anyway, thanks for the provantage link. I took a look at the "variants" in that site and found a cheaper one -- http://www.provantage.com/asus-xonar...m~7ASU911K.htm

Provantage also marked that item a special order but I ordered one anyway.
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post #557 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by George Montemayor View Post

I would avoid SuperDuperClub if this is the same one listed in Reseller Ratings.

Anyway, thanks for the provantage link. I took a look at the "variants" in that site and found a cheaper one -- http://www.provantage.com/asus-xonar...m~7ASU911K.htm

Provantage also marked that item a special order but I ordered one anyway.

hmmm ... I wonder what the difference in the two are? (aside from the price)...

Well, either way, let us know ... a) when you get it & b) how it works when you do!

thanks!
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post #558 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by George Montemayor View Post

I would avoid SuperDuperClub if this is the same one listed in Reseller Ratings.

Anyway, thanks for the provantage link. I took a look at the "variants" in that site and found a cheaper one -- http://www.provantage.com/asus-xonar...m~7ASU911K.htm

Provantage also marked that item a special order but I ordered one anyway.

Provantage is special order which I think means, not in stock yet

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post #559 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 04:07 PM
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Provantage is special order which I think means, not in stock yet

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Did you really think I was expecting this at my door this week?
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post #560 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kronic24601 View Post

hmmm ... I wonder what the difference in the two are? (aside from the price)...

Regardless of any other potential differences it looks like returns are handled differently for each from Provantage.

The cheaper one has a 'Manufacturer's Warranty' vs the 'Standard 30 Days Return'

See the text under the 'Manufacturer Part#' in the listings for each.

The differences are detailed here

http://www.provantage.com/scripts/return.dll

Still a good find though. Seems like a reputable company with a good price and very fair shipping cost. I'll probably also be ordering the cheaper one from them unless a better offer comes along pretty soon. I wanted this thing yesterday.
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post #561 of 3195 Old 06-18-2009, 06:22 PM
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Did you really think I was expecting this at my door this week?

I wish you luck with that.

Think what you will, it has nothing to do with me

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post #562 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by kronic24601 View Post

Ok so ... back to the item at hand. Has anyone gotten one of these units yet? It looks like they are available (or perhaps these sites are misleading??)

I just received a confirmation call from the online store that my ordered Xonar Slim has arrived and is ready there for me to pick it up...
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post #563 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 04:19 AM
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...and here it is, ladies and gentlemen, my brand new baby Xonar Slim is laying right here in front of me on my desk! Exciting weekend ahead of me...

It seems that I am the first regular owner, right?
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post #564 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB (E-Work) View Post

...and here it is, ladies and gentlemen, my brand new baby Xonar Slim is laying right here in front of me on my desk! Exciting weekend ahead of me...

It seems that I am the first regular owner, right?

Great!

Who did you buy it from?

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post #565 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 04:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoskeVermeulen View Post

OK, someone needs to step in and talk some sense here. The reason why MS can't get away with it is cause they have a de facto monopoly on the OS market for desktop PCs. If they deliver an internet brower, media player, ... etc with that OS, competing companies in those areas don't stand a chance. Remember, the case they lost regarding the bundling of IE with Windows came out of a complaint made by Netscape.

Also, most people I have recommended Firefox to like it better than IE. A lot of them weren't even them aware of the fact that alternative browsers even exist.

If you want to talk sense, you need to go to the EU rulers and tell them to stop it.

Two questions to you:

When MS releases the No-IE version of Windows to the EU, how will anyone get to the web to download Firefox?

Why is Apple, Sun, and all the various Linux distros allowed to bundle a browser but not MS?


Yes, MS provided something for free which most people did not use because they did not want to pay for it. Because MS gave everyone a free browser, the web took off. Prior to that, only geeks used it...the same people who used Gopher.

Seriously, most people use IE it is because they are happy with it. It does what they want and provides a good experience while they do it. You do not get a 90% use rate without the product actually being something people want.

Just because most people are stupid does not mean the EU must be stupid also.
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post #566 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Great!
Who did you buy it from?

http://www.1shop.cz/
Local store here in Czech Republic.
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post #567 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 04:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB (E-Work) View Post

...and here it is, ladies and gentlemen, my brand new baby Xonar Slim is laying right here in front of me on my desk! Exciting weekend ahead of me...

It seems that I am the first regular owner, right?

Awesome!

Time for you to start the "*Official* Asus XONAR HDAV Slim OWNERS Thread"




Can you test it with Vista SP2?
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post #568 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB (E-Work) View Post

http://www.1shop.cz/
Local store here in Czech Republic.

Oh

I guess I still have a wait on my hands.

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post #569 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Provantage is special order which I think means, not in stock yet

- Rich

exact!

Last time I did something like that I endup with the item later then the average.

Personally I will order only from a place where it is in stock.
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post #570 of 3195 Old 06-19-2009, 06:00 AM
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http://www.1shop.cz/
Local store here in Czech Republic.

I have been to Prague recently really nice city! Still a bit too far to order a card.

Anxious to read your evaluation of the product.
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