Zotac IONITX-A Mini-ITX board Official Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 305 Old 09-13-2009, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

Unfortunately, yes. There is no driver which will offload Flash decoding to the GPU, so it must be done by the CPU. The Atom CPU (even the dual core 1.6GHz) is not capable of smooth HD flash playback.

But that wont be true for the socket 775 version correct (ZOTAC GF9300-D-E LGA 775)? I love this board and was thinking about putting a core 2 duo-2.5gig cpu, which I assume would be fast enough for hulu.

Also with the GF9300 version of this board has the wake on usb issue been fixed yet?

If anyone knows the answers to the above questions I would really really appreciate it. I am advising my friend and he was thinking about ordering parts in the next week or so.
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post #242 of 305 Old 09-14-2009, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

It's not limited to BD rips. Hardware acceleration should kick in for any h.264 video.

Again, this one highly depends on the player/decoder used. Hulu video is basically H.264+AAC in Flash container. The only reason it doesn't get hardware accelerated is because the Flash player (in Windows, at least) doesn't support DXVA.

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Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

I believe CUDA supports acceleration for Xvid/Divx as well, not that it is necessary.

No, it doesn't. Well, at least I haven't heard of the DivX team implementing it. CUDA uses the GPU as a CPU, but technically, you're still decoding in software. This is what CoreAVC does (least, the version I have). DXVA uses the actual hardware to do the decoding which is what the PowerDVD, TMT, MPC-HC and Windows 7 decoders do. The advantage to the former (CUDA) is you can decode even out-of-spec H.264 files since you're relying on software, not hardware (this used to be an issue way back when). The advantage to DXVA is better PQ (at least from accounts, I've never really noticed any difference) and wider graphics support (AMD/ATI, NVIDIA and Intel instead of just NVIDIA CUDA-enabled GPU).

Hardware acceleration is available for MPEG2, H.264 and VC-1.

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Originally Posted by bob2300NX View Post

But that wont be true for the socket 775 version correct (ZOTAC GF9300-D-E LGA 775)? I love this board and was thinking about putting a core 2 duo-2.5gig cpu, which I assume would be fast enough for hulu.

I don't now about that exact board, but I have an Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.50GHz and that one handles Hulu (even HD) just fine even without hardware acceleration.
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post #243 of 305 Old 09-14-2009, 08:23 AM
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No, CoreAVC's CUDA uses hardware to decode fully. It's the same principle as DXVA, except you're using CUDA API to access the VP2 in older Nvidia GPUs & VP3 unit in the 8200/8300 & 9300/9400/Ion GPU chipset instead of DXVA API. CoreAVC's CUDA decoding requires a GPU with VP2, VP3, eventhough the G80 GPU(Geforce 8800Ultra/GTX, Geforce 8800 GTS320/640) fully supports CUDA, it is not support by CoreAVC for CUDA decoding. It does not use the stream processors at all.

And again, wrong. CoreAVC CUDA 1.9.5 is limited to 15 reference frames, DXVA allows you to go all the way to 16 reference frames with the latest drivers and the latest MPC-HC DXVA decoder.

Nvidia has been able to decode out of spec H.264 encodes for a long time with DXVA, since last year.
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post #244 of 305 Old 09-14-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGT View Post

No, CoreAVC's CUDA uses hardware to decode fully. It's the same principle as DXVA, except you're using CUDA API to access the VP2 in older Nvidia GPUs & VP3 unit in the 8200/8300 & 9300/9400/Ion GPU chipset instead of DXVA API. CoreAVC's CUDA decoding requires a GPU with VP2, VP3, eventhough the G80 GPU(Geforce 8800Ultra/GTX, Geforce 8800 GTS320/640) fully supports CUDA, it is not support by CoreAVC for CUDA decoding. It does not use the stream processors at all.

And again, wrong. CoreAVC CUDA 1.9.5 is limited to 15 reference frames, DXVA allows you to go all the way to 16 reference frames with the latest drivers and the latest MPC-HC DXVA decoder.

Nvidia has been able to decode out of spec H.264 encodes for a long time with DXVA, since last year.

Thank you for the clarification. Sadly, my (mis-)information was a bit out of date. I confess, I can't remember which came first exactly - CoreAVC CUDA support or better drivers from NVIDIA. I used an ATI Radeon HD3450 on my second HTPC, hence, I've never really taken notice of the NVIDIA side of things. My first HTPC (the one that had CoreAVC installed) only had a measly GeForce 6200TC which is capable of neither CUDA nor DXVA acceleration. Well, it was capable of standard definition MPEG-2 hardware acceleration but that's the extent of it.
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post #245 of 305 Old 09-14-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

If you can't stream 1080p content over wifi, that is a failing of your wifi infrastructure, not the board. The 802.11n adapter on the board is capable of enough throughput for 1080p, but the rest of your network has to be up to snuff. If the other devices on your network can't keep up or your physical layout prevents decent signal reception, then no wireless adapter will work.

Thanks for the info, I never looked deep into specs and didn't notice that 802.11n is supported. I'm sure that it would make a difference, because my 802.11g network is almost OK.
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post #246 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 07:39 AM
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I have the IONITX-D-E, 90W Pico PSU with 60W brick power supply, 30GB SSD, 1 x 2GB RAM (not dual channel), Windows 7.

I use the M350 case, looks like this:




note: this is not my build, but a similar looking one from http://www.avforums.com/forums/home-...otac-n330.html

I would have gotten the IONITX-A-U though because the included 90W PSU is more convenient and cheaper than a Pico PSU.

All the parts including the factory IONITX CPU fan fit in very easily with room to spare. No hacking and modifications needed. I built the system in 20 minutes and I've never built a PC before. I copied the contents of a Windows 7 installation CD onto a USB drive, plugged it into the USB port, and it started installing Windows 7 immediately upon computer-startup. I did not have to mess with BIOS, not even the USB boot settings.

It plays 720p movies very smoothly. It plays several 1080p movies perfectly smooth too (30-40% CPU load I think), EXCEPT for 13GB 16.2 bitrate 1080p file. It's very choppy (unwatchable) with 90-100% CPU load. I haven't really checked if hardware acceleration is active with this video, nor have I tweaked anything yet.

Has anyone been able to play such a 1080p beast on their IONITX-A-U or IONITX-D-E without issue? Should I bother messing around with codecs or will it be a waste of time? Has anyone determined the max. 1080p bitrate the dual core IONITX board can handle?

Overall I'm very happy with this HTPC. I had a large HTPC with micro ATX motherboard but I wanted a small mini ITX box with low power consumption and I'm very happy with the IONITX so far. It played several .MKVs I threw at it without complaints, except for that one rare 16.2 bitrate 1080p.
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post #247 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 08:03 AM
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I love the USB wake-on feature!! It's a must-have. The IONITX draws very little power while sleeping and simply pressing any button on the remote wakes it up.

I have a slight problem with Media Portal; its native video player is pretty choppy. Windows Media 11 or whatever comes with Windows 7 is much better - it plays 720p and 1080p smoothly. Windows Media Classic is probably good too.. but you can't run these players natively in Media Portal so it's annoying. What media center is everyone else here using?
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post #248 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyline View Post

Has anyone been able to play such a 1080p beast on their IONITX-A-U or IONITX-D-E without issue? Should I bother messing around with codecs or will it be a waste of time? Has anyone determined the max. 1080p bitrate the dual core IONITX board can handle?

I've yet to encounter a 1080p, straight Blu-Ray rip that won't play on the IONITX-D-E. Then again, I rip all my movies without re-encoding so they're pretty much guaranteed to follow specifications. If you're using Media Center, try playing back the file with MPC HomeCinema using the internal DXVA filters. It's possible that the Windows 7 codecs are stricter about out of spec videos.
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post #249 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 08:23 AM
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Hey Smittyline

I have the exact same setup. I love the M350 case. One suggestion you might try is using 4gb ram. The onboard video uses part of the system ram. I use 4gb and the video says it's using 512. I think it's proportionate so if you are using 2gb then it assigns less to the video. Also I've had really good results with CoreAVC and Media Player Classic Home Cinema. I play 1080p files with no problem and many of them are full backups from MakeMKV. 13gb for a movie should not be a problem unless they did something odd with the encode. Many of the movies I play are 24gb.

I saw your nuild photos posted somewhere else and that really sold me on the M350 case. Someday I will try mounting it on the back of a TV.
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post #250 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 08:35 AM
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Thanks guys, I'll tweak it until the rest of the 1080p vids plays smoothly.

I'm not using Media Player Classic because it doesn't always work with subs but maybe adjusting vobsub settings will solve that. Someone in my family is hearing impaired, so subs are a must. Windows Media Player 11 works perfectly fine with subs.

Quote:
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One suggestion you might try is using 4gb ram. The onboard video uses part of the system ram. I use 4gb and the video says it's using 512.

Are you using 64-bit Windows? XP or 7?

I tried Googling this but didn't find a straight answer. My 2GB stick is not part of a "dual channel" package. If I install another identical 2GB stick, will it perform exactly the same as a "dual channel" 2x2GB package? Sorry for the silly newbie question, but I need confirmation to put me at ease
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post #251 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 08:48 AM
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Don't use external VSFilter(vobsub). Using that breaks the DXVA chain, causing you to have no hardware acceleration. MPC-HC's internal sub filter can work with DXVA, so you get full hardware acceleration and subtitles.
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post #252 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyline View Post

Thanks guys, I'll tweak it until the rest of the 1080p vids plays smoothly.

I'm not using Media Player Classic because it doesn't always work with subs but maybe adjusting vobsub settings will solve that. Someone in my family is hearing impaired, so subs are a must. Windows Media Player 11 works perfectly fine with subs.



Are you using 64-bit Windows? XP or 7?

I tried Googling this but didn't find a straight answer. My 2GB stick is not part of a "dual channel" package. If I install another identical 2GB stick, will it perform exactly the same as a "dual channel" 2x2GB package? Sorry for the silly newbie question, but I need confirmation to put me at ease

I'm using XP. I've never had an issue with MPC and subs, it always seems to play them all.

Not sure I can give you the correct answer about your dual channel ram since I bought a dual channel pair to start with. Next time you boot up check your bios and it will tell you how much video ram you have. I think you will find that you have 265 available(2gb system memory). If you are using hardware decode then that could be a bottleneck. Maybe someone else can verify this or correct me about this issue.
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post #253 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 09:19 AM
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I uninstalled VSFilter (thanks for the tip, HDGT) and everything else. I installed CoreAVC and loaded it in MPC. I set MPC Properties > Playback > Output to "Haali Splitter" so that it can render embedded subtitles. Did any of you do the same?

A 720p video played OK with 50% CPU load. 9GB 1080p is OK with some hiccups. 13GB 1080p is unwatchable. It's probably the 2GB RAM and 256MB allocated to the GPU.

Yes the GPU is only getting approx. 256MB out of 2GB. I'll try adjusting it to 512MB to see if there's any improvement. Will order another 2GB stick (or a 2x2GB dual channel package if there's any difference).

Thanks,
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post #254 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 09:33 AM
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smittyline, you need to install DirectX Redist.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

I assuming that you are using the latest MPC-HC 1.3.1249.0. After installing the DirectX update, go to MPC-HC Options, Playback, tick Auto-load subtitles. Then go to Output and select EVR Custom Pres. Subs should be working now. Then go to Internal Filters, make sure H264/AVC (DXVA) is checked for hardware accelerated decoding, Atom can't play 1080P even with CoreAVC's software decoder.
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post #255 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 10:33 AM
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HDGT: I upgraded to MPC-HC 1.3.1249.0 (I had 1.2.x), installed the DirectX Redist via your link (I used the .exe web installer though, 89MB downloaded), set up MPC-HC Options to output thru EVR Custom Pres. as you indicated. Subs seem to work fine.

After installing MPC-HC, it also installed Haali and overrode CoreAVC's Haali, so I uninstalled Haali and CoreAVC, re-installed CoreAVC with Haali.

I also reserved 512MB to the GPU (in BIOS), increased from 256MB. Windows 7 had 550+ MB free OS memory while playing a movie.

720p video plays with 60% CPU load (10% higher than before), max. 80%. Perfectly smooth as far as I can tell.

13GB 1080p video plays with 100% CPU load, forget about it.

I right-clicked on the MPC-HC screen while a movie is playing and it does show CoreAVC is active.

The video performance was better with Windows 7's default hardware acceleration.. CPU load with same 720p vid was 40-50%. Most 1080p played good.

I have no other codecs or programs installed except for WinRAR and Chrome web browser.

What I'll probably do tonight is install Windows XP SP3 32-bit and do the following:

1. Install the latest drivers for ZOTAC/Nvidia/etc.
2. Update Windows XP.
3. Install DirectX Redist.
4. Install MPC-HC
5. Install CoreAVC
6. Configure MPC-HC to load CoreAVC

Then hope for the best...

As a last resort, I wonder if someone with a successful IONITX-D-E or IONTIX-A-U HTPC setup can give me a HD dump (no movies, just the core Windows + programs) so I can just dump it to my HD and try all the 1080p videos? The hardware is essentially the same anyway, and it'll help me rule out any software errors.

If no luck still, I'll hope 4GB RAM solves it.

Thanks!
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post #256 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 10:42 AM
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No no, don't use CoreAVC. Use the MPC-HC internal DXVA decoder, hardware acceleration is always faster than software decoding. If you followed my instructions you'll get between 10-15% CPU usage, far lower than CoreAVC's software decoding. Even Anandtech prefers MPC-HC's internal DXVA decoder's hardware acceleration.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3562&p=3

Quote:
If you configure MPC-HC as I described above you'll get full hardware acceleration on the Ion board. This is a great way of watching your own ripped content. Without encryption CPU utilization ends up being in the 10 - 14% range, allowing you to even do things in the background while you're watching a video.

If you're getting over 30% CPU usage with the MS Win7 decoder then clearly hardware acceleration is not working at all.

I'm not sure what you installed, MPC-HC from the official Sourceforge site doesn't come with Haali. Haali Splitter is well known to be very buggy on Win7.

http://lists.matroska.org/pipermail/...st/003533.html

Quote:
Splitter.ax is crashing around 1500 times per day on Windows 7.

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post #257 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGT View Post

No no, don't use CoreAVC. Use the MPC-HC internal DXVA decoder, hardware acceleration is always faster than software decoding. If you followed my instructions you'll get between 10-15% CPU usage, far lower than CoreAVC's software decoding. Even Anandtech prefers MPC-HC's internal DXVA decoder's hardware acceleration.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3562&p=3



If you're getting over 30% CPU usage with the MS Win7 decoder then clearly hardware acceleration is not working at all.

I'm not sure what you installed, MPC-HC from the official Sourceforge site doesn't come with Haali. Haali Splitter is well known to be very buggy on Win7.

http://lists.matroska.org/pipermail/...st/003533.html

Agreed 100%, the weakness of the ION platform is the CPU, so you want to use DXVA to accelerate video with the GPU since that's the ION's strong point.
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post #258 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyline View Post

girlie movie.mkv



Obviously that won't play... it's because no man should be watching it !!!!!






p.s. quit stealing movies
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post #259 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 05:04 PM
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The only issue atm with Haali's splitter is that the explorer integration is messed up on Windows 7. Haali has now removed the explorer shell support and a new updated version that works against Windows 7 will be released as an optional component in our upcoming CoreAVC 2.0 release as well as available on Haali's site.

Oh... we will also release a 64bit version of the splitter as well.

Founder CoreCodec
http://www.CoreCodec.com
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post #260 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGT View Post

No no, don't use CoreAVC. Use the MPC-HC internal DXVA decoder, hardware acceleration is always faster than software decoding. If you followed my instructions you'll get between 10-15% CPU usage, far lower than CoreAVC's software decoding. Even Anandtech prefers MPC-HC's internal DXVA decoder's hardware acceleration.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3562&p=3



If you're getting over 30% CPU usage with the MS Win7 decoder then clearly hardware acceleration is not working at all.

I'm not sure what you installed, MPC-HC from the official Sourceforge site doesn't come with Haali. Haali Splitter is well known to be very buggy on Win7.

http://lists.matroska.org/pipermail/...st/003533.html

I followed your posts and the anandtech link. My CPU load is now in the 14-18% range for 720p and 20-25% for the beastly 13GB 1080p. Looks like hardware acceleration is working this time. However even with 720p the frame rates look choppier than when I had software acceleration with 50%-plus CPU load. MPC-HC is reporting 23.97 frames per second on average for 720p.

I'll probably try Windows XP anyway.

I appreciate your patience in helping an annoying newbie like me. You saved me hours of research and I've made some progress Once I figure it out, I'll pass on your favor by helping another newbie.
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post #261 of 305 Old 09-17-2009, 06:29 PM
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Hello there,

I am using ZOTAC ION the 1.6 atom version, OCed @ 2.1 with 2gigabyte memory (512MB GPU dedicated), XP SP3 VMR9, latest dx sdk, latest nvidia drivers, MPC-HC codecs for both Audio and Video with DXVA ON, reclock as audio renderer. I am able to play untouched Blue Ray @ 5-10% cpu usage, so i can totally reassure you that this mobo is able to play any 4.1 compliant MKV.

It has major issues though with 1080i HDTV. Interlaced material is not properly deinterlaced and this is only under VMR9.

I tried EVR and Vista and deinterlacing is working there BUT picture is trembling so still unwatchable.

Tried CoreAVC with CUDA....picture quality is bad, so bad that i realized why they claim that they have the fastest codec available. Half the quality double the speed.

If anyone is experiencing the same deinterlacing issues under VMR9 or the trembling issue under EVR please report it here so we can troubleshoot it.

P.S. I have a thread open regarding this issue under DOOM9 forums.
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post #262 of 305 Old 09-18-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyline View Post

not a torrent


You left yourself open for that one...




I did 135mph in my car the other day on the interstate, but it was for testing purposes only, so the police officer told me he wasn't going to write the ticket.



Chances are, whatever torrent group released that rip, they screwed something up so that hardware decoding doesn't work... It happens.
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post #263 of 305 Old 09-21-2009, 03:43 PM
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Hi all,

So when these things first hit the street I got a IONITX-A-U thinking it would be a cool little media player.
I built up a quick install of xp sp3 32 bit with the latest TotalMedia Theater.
I plugged the HDMI directly into a new Samsung 8000 series LED TV I was able to get everything playing great, just with 2 ch audio because thats what the Samsung has.

So for my next trick I connected the Zotac board to a available HDMI input on my Yamaha RX-V2700 and then the output to the Samsung TV.
Now I get nothing, no picture no sound, but I can get the Yamaha GUI on the Samsung TV. I go back to the Zotac computer (has a monitor connected via DVI) and realize it is back in single display mode.
No matter what I do I can't force it to see the Samsung TV through the Yamaha Receiver.

Support from Zotac responded "The receiver will not recognize the HDMI signal from a computer". A second email stated "To get 7.1 you will need a Display that supports video and sound through HDMI".

I really don't understand this, how is it possible to use this as a HTCP if I can't pipe the sound to my receiver? I can do it via the optical connection on the motherboard but the best you can get is 5.1, the only way to get 7.1 is via HDMI.

How are you guys doing this? I can't be the only person trying to do this, my goal is to pipe the sound to my receiver and the video to my projector once I get all the bugs worked out, the Samsung is really just for testing.

Thanks for any help you can provide

Al
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post #264 of 305 Old 09-29-2009, 10:18 AM
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It looks like we will finally get Hulu and other Flash based sites to work!
http://gizmodo.com/5370126/gpu+accel...ves-next-month
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post #265 of 305 Old 09-29-2009, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post

It looks like we will finally get Hulu and other Flash based sites to work!
http://gizmodo.com/5370126/gpu+accel...ves-next-month

Super! I was really hoping for this. Finally, our 25 watt wonder gets what it needs to play nice!
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post #266 of 305 Old 09-29-2009, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotik View Post

Tried CoreAVC with CUDA....picture quality is bad, so bad that i realized why they claim that they have the fastest codec available. Half the quality double the speed.
.

Something is broke on your system or config as there are no such bugs in CoreAVC 1.x or in our upcoming 2.0 versions.

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post #267 of 305 Old 09-29-2009, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by HDGT View Post

No no, don't use CoreAVC. Use the MPC-HC internal DXVA decoder, hardware acceleration is always faster than software decoding. If you followed my instructions you'll get between 10-15% CPU usage, far lower than CoreAVC's software decoding. Even Anandtech prefers MPC-HC's internal DXVA decoder's hardware acceleration.

Please be clear with everyone....

DXVA is only a solution if you need a few more CPU cycles... HOWEVER... What you are not saying is that the lower CPU usage comes at a very high cost of manipulating the stream. ie; with DXVA what you see if what you get. So, no hue, no color correction, no colorspace conversion, no deblocking, etc. adjustments like this are not possible.

So in many instances DXVA does not work as you cannot properly align it against your systems needs/requirements.

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post #268 of 305 Old 09-29-2009, 09:59 PM
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And again, wrong. CoreAVC CUDA 1.9.5 is limited to 15 reference frames, DXVA allows you to go all the way to 16 reference frames with the latest drivers and the latest MPC-HC DXVA decoder.

Nvidia has been able to decode out of spec H.264 encodes for a long time with DXVA, since last year.

The reference frame limitation has been fixed by NVIDIA with newer 2.3.x SDK and is in CoreAVC 2.0.

On the out of spec mention as it relates to hardware... you are probably referring to Motion Vectors, which hardware companies early on did not respect the AVC specifications. Such issues have been pointed out to chipset vendors and they now comply with the spec (as well as x264 now). However there were some mainstream movies that do have such MV issues (Spiderman 3 off the top of my head). But we have not seen recent ones like this in almost a year now.

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post #269 of 305 Old 10-02-2009, 01:15 AM
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Getting ready to build a small system IONITX or GF9300. Prefer ION as it fits into the small M350 case but concerned it may not be able to handle:

100+ open Firefox tabs (continuous surfing, long sessions) & Word, Personal Stock Monitor (database & charts), Excel, SnagIt, YouTube, Thunderbird, VOIP, Realplay, iTunes, ACDSee etc. running at the same time. My desktop E6700 has no problem with this load.

Would experienced members please comment,, enough horses here or would the GF9300 be the better bet?

Many thanks
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post #270 of 305 Old 10-02-2009, 07:15 AM
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The IONITX has excellent graphics capability where the CPU does not have to do too much work. A serious offender is one you didn't mention, Hulu. The Hulu player does not make good use of the ION GPU so the playback is jerky, yet an IONITX can play Blu-ray at full 1080P smoothly.

While it's likely an IONITX will handle what you mentioned OK, it may not have the speedy response you are used to with your desktop. I posted a brief comparison of using an IONITX verses a Q8200 powered box with nVidia GPU for Media Center. They both worked properly and could play anything I threw at them. The IONITX was just slower in response to remote key presses, of course. My IONITX only uses about 40 Watts max, while the Q8200 box is like 175 Watts, at least.

Bye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sired View Post

Getting ready to build a small system IONITX or GF9300. Prefer ION as it fits into the small M350 case but concerned it may not be able to handle:

100+ open Firefox tabs (continuous surfing, long sessions) & Word, Personal Stock Monitor (database & charts), Excel, SnagIt, YouTube, Thunderbird, VOIP, Realplay, iTunes, ACDSee etc. running at the same time. My desktop E6700 has no problem with this load.

Would experienced members please comment,, enough horses here or would the GF9300 be the better bet?

Many thanks

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