HD 1080i Test Pattern to determine Vector Adaptive Deinterlacing + others icl. Ticker - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 283 Old 06-26-2010, 12:07 AM
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Is the only requirement to use hardware acceleration (DXVA) for the ATI vector adaptive/pulldown to be used or is the ATI decoder required?
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post #212 of 283 Old 06-26-2010, 04:02 AM
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What you need is a video decoder supporting either DXVA or NV12 output.
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post #213 of 283 Old 06-26-2010, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Ati decoder works only under rare circumstances, but not with DXVA. In Win7 take for 480i/1080i the built in MS DTV-DVD Video Decoder. Together with EVR Renderer it uses DXVA automatically if the card supports it.

BTW the MS has Probs with 720p TV lifestream on an Ati card. Or better said: Ati cards have Probs with 720p + MS decoder due to bad error concealment of the cards (UVD).
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post #214 of 283 Old 01-22-2011, 07:53 AM
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Hi....when I download the files, Winzip complains, the archives are broken?
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post #215 of 283 Old 01-22-2011, 05:13 PM
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I downloaded Slicies_MPEG2_NTSC_1080i_29.97.zip. Unzipped it with 7-Zip and played the file Slicies MPEG2 NTSC 1080i 29.97.ts. No problem.
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post #216 of 283 Old 03-07-2012, 12:41 PM
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Download links at the start of this thread don't appear to work now?
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post #217 of 283 Old 03-07-2012, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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www.dropbox.com says: too much traffic - puh!
Is there something else like dropbox? I should have at least 2 alternative links for the videos.
Or could AVS host them?
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post #218 of 283 Old 03-07-2012, 06:12 PM
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There are lots of file sharing services.

UploadStation
Hotfile
FileJungle
MediaFire
4shared
EasyShare
...
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post #219 of 283 Old 03-10-2012, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, really there are hundrets..

But most store only 30-40 days without download, puh.
Don't want to re-up the rarer downloaded once a month.
One said www.nakido.com stores longer, I hope he is right... and seems to be fast as I tried out.

And they never tell us someth. about traffic limits, buuh!

Anyway the links should work again now.
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post #220 of 283 Old 03-10-2012, 02:57 PM
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the links aint working for me
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post #221 of 283 Old 03-10-2012, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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klick *Download Now* - wait for the 10 sec countdown - again klick *Download Now*.
Download starting.
Tested with Firefox + IE.

Will NOT work using webwashers like Proxomitron & Co.
Firefox' Adblock Plus no problem.
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post #222 of 283 Old 03-29-2012, 03:09 AM
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Hi, blaubart,

These links are not working for me. The nakido.com was blocked here. I searched web and found the same files in dropbox, but those links are also unavailable. Could you upload these files to another file sharing site, such as 4shared ?

Thanks in advance!
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post #223 of 283 Old 04-02-2012, 11:41 PM
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I had a hell of a time getting my Asus 6770 to deinterlace this thing properly. I am using MPC-HC 32-bit. By default it is set to EVR renderer, which refuses to work with any of the deinterlacing settings in the CCC. Haali renderer has limited support providing adaptive deinterlacing only (CCC settings made no difference, whole time is locked at adaptive deinterlacing regardless of settings). Finally I downloaded Madvr renderer which works properly with all the settings in the CCC. Also Madvr is much superior in terms of gradation. Look at the grey ramp from AVSHD. With EVR/haali = massive banding. With madvr = smooth. Apparently he is using 16-bit processing chain to achieve this. Combined with my 10 bit dithering LUT calibration, the result is perfect

Windows media player works correctly also, but has banding like EVR/haali.

Side note: under Options-Internal Filters, you must uncheck all transform filters (if not, you must make sure the MPEG filter is outputting interlaced flags otherwise it won't work either...another hour of my life wasted there )

Now, what I don't understand is why CCC deinterlacing isn't detecting the 2:2 cadence of the 1080i50 pattern and just weaving it? Perhaps it only supports 2:2 detection for i60? I would very much like the i60 version of the pattern, but the link is not working for me, it wants to install some bloatware downloader which is unacceptable.

If anybody could please upload the i60 version of the cheese slices pattern to mediafire.com (it's free) that would be much appreciated.

Thank you.
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post #224 of 283 Old 04-04-2012, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, nakido killed their direct download. I'll reup but needs a day or so...
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post #225 of 283 Old 04-05-2012, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Ladies & Gentlemen

New server new luck. This time trying a German secure whatever.

Happy download on changed topic links..!
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post #226 of 283 Old 04-05-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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@ assm0de

HD 6670 should run Slices smooth. Which decoder? Use Cyberlink DXVA activated or also MS DTV-DVD decoder does DXVA with MPEG2 Slices.
MPC-HC shows in the bottom line if DXVA is used.
EVR renderer no problem.
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post #227 of 283 Old 04-22-2012, 10:19 AM
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blaubart,

I have successfully downloaded the test clips. Thank you for your kindly help!
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post #228 of 283 Old 05-11-2012, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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You AVS people may know it since a long time...
I do not handle those things daily so I was surprised some days ago, wow...

VC-1 interlaced 1080i Slices:
Since LAV Filters (v.0.50.1) finally everything has changed,

LAV Splitter is able to directly clean-connect both, ts and mkv Slices (VC-1 interlaced) in MPC-HC to LAV Video Decoder or Cyberl. Video Decoder (PDVD10) using DXVA !
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post16956445

Thank you to the authors!

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post #229 of 283 Old 11-05-2012, 08:41 PM
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When playing the 1080i NTSC video, is it normal for the background grey boxes to start flickering during the motion portions of the video? Basically the entire picture starts to flicker. I don't see it when I run the 1080p video. Sorry to newb things up, but I've read through things a few times and am still uncertain if this is normal or not.
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post #230 of 283 Old 11-08-2012, 07:01 AM
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If you have an NVidia card, downgrade your drivers...

Jim White
St. Petersburg, FL
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post #231 of 283 Old 11-08-2012, 07:34 AM
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Its normal for some flickering to occur when you have 1px lines moving over the screen. It'll never look perfectly like the progressive version. Interlacing drops half of the images, reconstructing that perfectly is impossible.
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post #232 of 283 Old 11-08-2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Its normal for some flickering to occur when you have 1px lines moving over the screen. It'll never look perfectly like the progressive version. Interlacing drops half of the images, reconstructing that perfectly is impossible.

That makes sense. Thanks.
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post #233 of 283 Old 01-18-2013, 01:11 AM
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Hey guys,

I'm sorry about this, but I have just found out that the 1080i Cheese Slice test patterns are *not* really useful for judging video deinterlacing quality.

I always thought that the 1080i Cheese Slice test patterns were encoded as natively interlaced video. But instead I've just found out that they're encoded as *film* with a 2:2 cadence in both 60i and 50i variants. Practically that means that every 2 fields can be weaved together to form a perfect progressive frame. So the proper way to deinterlace these test patterns is to use a good IVTC algorithm which is able to detect the correct 2:2 cadence. If we want to judge video mode deinterlacing, we need to use natively interlaced test patterns. Which means there needs to be motion between every single field. The current 1080i Cheese Slice test patterns were encoded by simply taking the progressive source and then encoding it interlaced with a 2:2 cadence. The proper way to create video mode test patterns would have been to simply drop half of the lines of every progressive frame of the source (alternating odd and even lines for every consecutive frame) .

So what does this mean? In contrast to what I originally thought (and probably many other people) the 1080i Cheese Slice test patterns do not (at all) say anything about whether video mode deinterlacing uses motion compensation or not. Motion compensation tries to "follow" the motion between all the fields, and it only works if the motion is relatively constant from one field to the next. This is not the case here. Since these test patterns are encoded as film, there is no motion between 2 fields, then there's a jump to the next field, then again there's no motion etc. No motion compensation algorithm sees this as something it can work with.

The only real use these 1080i test patterns have is to check if the IVTC algorithm is capable of detecting the 2:2 cadence and weaving the correct fields back together. Judging quality differences between different video mode deinterlacing algorithms with these test patterns is not a good idea because video mode deinterlacing is not the right way to handle these test patterns in the first place. If you do select different video mode deinterlacing algorithms for these test patterns, all you're seeing is how they handle *film* content, and that's not what they were made for.

Edit: If you want proof, just play the 1080i Cheese Slices with madVR with film mode forced on. Also disable the madVR option "only look at pixels in the frame center", so madVR cadence detection will also include the bottom scroll band. This way playback with madVR film mode will be 100% identical to the original progressive source.
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post #234 of 283 Old 01-18-2013, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Edit: If you want proof, just play the 1080i Cheese Slices with madVR with film mode forced on. Also disable the madVR option "only look at pixels in the frame center", so madVR cadence detection will also include the bottom scroll band. This way playback with madVR film mode will be 100% identical to the original progressive source.

..is true playing the 1080i MPEG-2 but not the h.264 and VC-1 Slices. May be I could change it for MPEG-2 but I'm not so sure if it's important:

Cheese Slices was made 2009, a time nobody was talking about madVR but many people having not even a chance for VectorAdaptive deinterlacing on their machines.
To show if it's really present or not on different setups (using DXVA). That worked reliable all the years.

Hardware deinterlacers in other devices, TV's, stand-alone players and more (another test area) also do not use madVR.
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post #235 of 283 Old 01-18-2013, 05:41 AM
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No, this applies to the 1080i h264 and VC-1 Slices, as well. It is not limited to the MPEG-2 slices.

The problem is that if the GPU detects the cadence and applies proper IVTC then it really doesn't matter at all whether it uses VectorAdaptive deinterlacing or not, because video mode deinterlacing won't be in use at all if proper IVTC is done. So we don't even know for sure if good image quality means that VectorAdaptive deinterlacing is used. It could also simply mean that IVTC does its job. I believe that both NVidia and AMD do things "per pixel". So it's quite possible that good looking parts of the image look good because the film cadence was properly detected.

And this has really nothing to do whatsoever with madVR. I've only mentioned madVR as a quick way to check that these test patterns are really *film* and not *native interlaced video*. There's a world of a difference between the two, from the view point of a deinterlacer. Every (reasonably good quality) hardware deinterlacer in TVs, stand-alone players and more would behave quite differently if these test patterns were natively interlaced instead of telecined film.
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post #236 of 283 Old 01-18-2013, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok there ist one special thing, decoding Cheese Slices by madVR's included "ffmpeg/libav software decoder" does what you said obove with MPEG-2 and H.264 (VC-1 black).
That's a wonder I can't explain wink.gif
And there is indeed a difference to an in Europe (H.264) recorded 1080i.ts - this kind of 1080i.ts is decoded to ugly weave by madVR (all MPC-HC on two different AMD Graphics).

Disabling madVR's internal decoding and unsing other DXVA decoders (PDVD10/12, LAV, MS) results in the normal DXVA deinterlacing as shown in Post #1.
Exceptions:
PDVD10/12 playing H.264 Slices falls back to SkipField with madVR as renderer,
LAV on one PC did the progressive, the other decoders did not.

Seems this Inverse Telecine IVTC is an NTSC thing and has something to do with 2:3 Pulldown? Do you know where to download such a Video? Here in Europe is another DVB standard.
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post #237 of 283 Old 01-18-2013, 10:43 AM
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Well, the current madVR IVTC algorithm runs on the CPU and so it doesn't work if you use native DXVA decoding. Which means that if you want to use madVR's IVTC algorithm you have to use software decoding (or CUDA or "DXVA Copyback" in LAV Video Decoder). Maybe that's why you didn't have the expected results with the h264 and VC-1 Slices? In any case, I've tested all the 1080i Slices and they're all telecined with 2:2 pulldown. For some reason AMD and NVidia DXVA don't (fully) detect the cadence/pulldown, that's why different video mode algorithms still produce different results. AMD/NVidia try to detect telecine/pulldown *per pixel*, though, so it's hard to say if maybe some parts of the DXVA output were detected as (and consequently treated as) being 2:2 pulldown or not. If AMD/NVidia properly detected that the whole Slices frames are telecined 2:2 film content, all video mode algorithms would look the same. So obviously the DXVA pulldown/cadence detection doesn't work so well.

You getting weave with madVR with some Europe 1080i content can have multiple reasons. Does the madVR OSD say deinterlacing is off? In that case simply the detection that deinterlacing is needed didn't work correctly. You can then press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D twice to manually enable deinterlacing in madVR. Or maybe you still left madVR on forced film mode? If you then try to play natively interlaced video content, you *must* see combing artifacts as a result, simply because film mode can't handle native video content properly.

IVTC means undoing the Telecine. Telecine applies to both NTSC and PAL, see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

Your Slices (both 50i and 60i) were encoded with 2:2 pulldown. Which is normal for PAL film content, but quite unusual (though "legal") for 60i.

> Do you know where to download such a Video?

What do you mean with "such a Video" exactly? You mean a sample with 2:3 pulldown? Pretty much every USA movie broadcast and NTSC DVD is like that. Although some are soft-telecined (24 progressive frames or 48 interlaced fields with "repeat_first_field" flags) while others are hard-telecined (60 interlaced fields per second). And some are a mixture of both. HD DVDs were always soft-telecined.
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post #238 of 283 Old 01-18-2013, 10:48 AM
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blaubart, what madshi is saying is that with the "interlaced" clips provided in this thread, weaving is the correct thing to do because there is no motion between adjacent even and odd fields.

True interlaced content, which would properly test deinterlacing, would have motion between each field. To create this, you'd need to get a 1080p/50 video and convert it to 1080i/25 by removing half of the lines from each frame (i.e. turning each frame into a field). The same with 1080p/60 to 1080i/30. What you appear to have done is convert 1080p/25 to 1080i/25 (and 1080p/30 into 1080i/30), which is a non-destructive process and doesn't actually require deinterlacing.
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post #239 of 283 Old 01-18-2013, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Or maybe you still left madVR on forced film mode?
Of course I did, nobody told me to do sth else wink.gif
Quote:
If you then try to play natively interlaced video content, you *must* see combing artifacts as a result
ok, disabeled forced film, broadcasting records all right now...

Believe me or not, it's not so easy to get NTSC 1080i content in Europe. Blu-ray are all progressive, DVD all 720*576, no US TV in HD at all... Anyway, I'd only need it for some aimless testing.


Quote:
What you appear to have done is convert...
To do the Slices I didn't convert any video. I encoded them directly out of single psd pictures using TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress. Maybe IVTC is included if I would update it after 3 years? But I must admit my motivation is rather limited...

I am somehow a passionated "after war child": most of my computers can't run madVR anyway and the gaming PC is for gaming. I LOVE DXVA, simple setup and runs fluently and cool under any circumstances and having compared even identical frames rendered by madVR and "underdog" EVR the differences were so tiny...

And I'm also not the guy to pronounce VA deinterlacing as "world saver" at all. If you read here you will see it. VA is only a tiny extra for sport freaks sitting 1 meter away from really big screens..
And the "madVR hysteria" allaround makes me nutty - everybody who does not have it is immediately drowning in the desert..? Lately I liked to say to them "some like it hot, me not" smile.gif
Sorry sorry, please have mercy...
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post #240 of 283 Old 01-18-2013, 01:54 PM
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Please, blaubart, as I said before, this has *NOTHING* to do whatsoever with madVR. I don't know why you're concentrating on madVR so much. The only reason why I mentioned it at all was that it allowed me to easily proof that what I said was true. Even if madVR didn't exist, every bit of what I said would still be true. There are a couple of relatively simple facts:

(1) Native interlaced video content (music concerts, sports) has 50 or 60 interlaced fields per second, where each field was recorded at a different point in time.
(2) Telecined film content (movies, newer sitcoms) has 50 or 60 interlaced fields per second where always at least 2 fields come from the same point in time and can simply be weaved together to get a perfect progressive output.
(3) For native interlaced video content you can use Bob, Motion Adaptive Deinterlacing, Vector Adaptive Deinterlacing, Motion Compensated Deinterlacing, YADIF etc etc. You can't use IVTC. If you do, you'll get heavy combing.
(4) For telecined film content, the only proper algorithm to use is IVTC. Using a video mode deinterlacer like Motion/Vector Adaptive Deinterlacing is the wrong algorithm to use and will produce subpar quality compared to IVTC.

The Cheese Slices have been used by many people to judge the quality of video mode deinterlacers. But fact is that the Cheese Slices are actually telecined film content, and as a result using video mode deinterlacers on the Cheese Slices is completely the wrong algorithm. That doesn't mean that the Cheese Slices are useless. They certainly can be used for several things. What they can *not* be used for, though, is to check if a video mode deinterlacer uses motion compensation, or how the quality of different video mode deinterlacers ultimately compares.

Basically I just want everybody to know what the Cheese Slices really are (I believe most people had mistaken them as native interlaced video test patterns), so that everybody knows how to properly interpret the test results.
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