HD 1080i Test Pattern to determine Vector Adaptive Deinterlacing + others icl. Ticker - AVS Forum

AVS Forum > Video Components > Home Theater Computers > HD 1080i Test Pattern to determine Vector Adaptive Deinterlacing + others icl. Ticker

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blaubart's Avatar blaubart
07:11 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 283
06-21-2009 | Posts: 161
Joined: Apr 2009

Functions: visually determine deinterlacing differences between:


- deinterlacing options - Weave, Bob, Adaptive, Motion Adaptive, Vector Adaptive (Ati Graphic Cards - CCC)
- all other kinds of advanced deinterlacers
- HD video processors built in media devices
- how decoders, renderers, media players, drivers have influence


Many threads discussed the benefits of HDTV Vector Adaptive vs. Motion Adaptive or Adaptive deinterlacing as a must-have but if it comes to the point of visible differences you read "..can't see nothing at all..?". Same with me and it took some rounds to spot the Motion Adaptive tiny stepping of moving diagonal, hard contrasted lines. Sports fields lines are good to show.
But the stepping increases on large screens, 24" 1920*1080 or higher. May be annoying on >30" or projecting depending on the viewing distance.

Upscaled interlaced SD video (see end of post) without Vector Adaptive deinterlacing may be really nasty.

So I tested several line patterns and the most significant parts I combined in one pattern.
Name: Käsescheibchen (I needed a long word for the ticker)
Engl.: Cheese Slices


Download - Format (MPEG-2 Transport Stream - 1920*1080):

NTSC interlaced (29.97 FPS -> USA, Canada & other NTSC-Countries):
1080i - 29.97 fps - VBR, 20 mbps - (42 MB)

The NTSC progressive version may be good e.g. to watch the perfect structures and movements without any deinterlacing disortion (see below, "Description"):
1080p - 29.97 fps - VBR, 16 mbps - (29 MB)

PAL interlaced (25 FPS) for people coming from PAL-countries (-> Australia, Europe, China etc.) or to check out 50Hz abilities of devices:
1080i - 25 fps - VBR, 20 mbps - (50 MB)
PAL progressive: 1080p - 25 fps - VBR, 16 mbps - (35 MB)
(-> remind: these PAL versions will judder with 60Hz PC monitors if they are unable to display 50Hz natively. Check up the monitor Tech. Specs.)
-> you have to set the output of the graphics card to 50 Hz !


Upon request other formats:

SD 480i, 576i patterns, see bottom of this topic.
H.264 1080i Cheese Slices Version -> here (post #32)
VC-1 1080i Cheese Slices Version -> here (post #41)

 

2 experimentals for testing outside DXVA with inverse telecine (+ forced film-mode) deinterlacing, "Speedy Slices"

-> here (post #279)


Overview (cut-out, reszied 60%):




In 2009 I built Cheese Slices on a P4 (Single Core) - WinXP - HIS HD 3850 AGP

 

tested meanwhile VA-positive using:
- Win XP, Win7
- AMD Drivers: 8.11 - 12,4
- Graphics card: many Ati's more then HDx5xx

- Splitter: LAV


- Video Decoder: CyberLink (PDVD7-10), Arcsoft, LAV,
---> hardware acceleration (DXVA) swiched on (and working) !

- Renderer WinXP: only VMR9 features no resizing at all. Overlay mixer resizes a bit and to enable weave you have to force it in the CyberLink Decoder
- Renderer Win7: EVR


- Players: MPC-HC (but do not use the MPC-internal MPEG2 video decoder), DVBViewer

- PS3, WD-TV, DM8000 & others, TVs, projectors - to test the deinterlacing abilities of their built-in video processors




How to play:
first, the HTPC should be already well-trained for 1920*1080 video. Any serious kinds of judder, tearing, (motion) blur or other disortions visible in "normal" HD-video, caused by masses of HTPC problems discussed in this Forum will of course restrain accurate testing results. On the other hand if you know what you do the patterns may help to figure out some of them. Easyest: 'am I really watching now damned VA deinterlacing?'.

Always swich to full-screen 1920*1080. But most effects will also be seen using less resolution screens (how that looks like see below - "Resizing". Zooming in may help for the details):
In MPC-HC activate this option: View - Video Frame - Normal Size. To change position: <Ctrl+Numpad 6/4/8/2>

The patterns are rather short (~ 30sec. I'm not the upload-pro and still trying out). So the download is faster but you have to set the players to "repeat":
- MPC-HC: View - Options - Playback - Repeat forever
-> Edit: Repeat forever doesn't work correctly in MPC-HC since Win7 (Vista?): next playback will fall down to bob. You have to klick stop and start.
-> Remind - changes of the deinterlacing options in CCC will only take effect by closing and restarting MPC.

 

June 2012: VA preferred in MPC-HC:
LAV-Splitter + Cyberlink (PDVD10) or LAV Video Dec.-  performing DXVA -> MPEG-2, H.264 and VC-1-(interlaced) Cheese Clices



Description:

First, don't get shocked - the pattern will NEVER look totally clean and "peaceful". I had to build in points (noise), lines and movements that can not be handeled by today's deinterlacers. And some that will be almost deinterlaced. But just in these parts the different video processors and deinterlacing options show determinable effects.


And please do not try to compare 1080i vs. 1080p Slices in order to get the right answer cause it's irrelevant: not the fastest Computer, video processor or GPU in the world will be able to deinterlace into progressive!

Relevant for "real-world video playback" is only the picture-section I called "video reference" and even these pics are something you will see close to never watching "average TV". Only sometimes in playing fields, race-courses etc.
-> Stripes like these are forbidden in broadcasting since first TV studio till today (wardrobe, stage/studiodesign ...).

With the exception of banners and sports..wink.gif

 

But may be - if one day 720p (progressive) becomes lowest standard the stripes will come back? Some 720p stations love it to start with an aggressive "full with lines" trailer all day long - just to bother the interlaced.. smile.gif


All following screenshots in original size (unscaled).
CCC Deinterlacing options: Vector Adaptive (VA), Motion Adaptive (MA), Adaptive (A), bob and weave



Video Reference: Rel. minor stepping by MA, A and bob depending on the size of your screen.



Determine Vector Adaptive Deinterlacing:
If VA is working, the lines in the orange tubnails of the ticker and in the "determine vector adaptive" section should remain lines, also in motion:





As you can see in the above screenshot (original size) the differences between VA and MA are very significant and easy to distinguish.
If you are still unsure exit MPC, enter Catalyst Control Center and switch to Motion adaptive. Then start the pattern again. If there's no difference or Vector adaptive is not selectable in CCC you've got other problems...








Even and odd movements:

- Ticker: always 5 pixels per frame horizontal


- Lines Movement:

1. up-down-up even: 2p hor. + 2p vert. (45°)

2. up-down-up odd: 3p hor. + 1p vert. (18.43°)

3. + 4. up-down-up even, like first.

-> If you do screenshots for others to see always shoot them during even movement! Odd is only a test for different angle movement.




Determine all deinterlacing options of CCC:

IMPORTANT:
- all options will flicker during the odd (2nd) moving up-down. The comments refer to the even up-downs (see "Movements").
- some screenshots cannnot show exactly what you see watching the video. Below e.g. Adaptive and bob show a black+white "1p" rectangle. But video play-back will show both in white, flickering.
- if you really see not flickering plain monochrome 1p fields (no lines) in grey or black+white that means DXVA (hardware acceleration) is switched off or currently or forever impossible in your setup.

 


-> the lines in the following pics are very tiny so it's important to see them in original size. The browser must not be zoomed in any direction. In Firefox and Internet Explorer just press Ctrl + 0 (zero).

-> Internet Explorer + AVR advertising might compress some of them anyway - also if your screen resolution is much less than 1920 wide - then you only have the chance to right-click and download them, sorry!












Weave simply adds 2 consecutive fields to one. The even up-downs perform fluently but plus an ugly extra: combing.





what's more..

Of course there are many other details to describe:


The "response - noise" section, here shown in even (2x2p= 45°) VA movement:



In this area I collected pixel and line segments hardest to deinterlace. But, surprise surprise, on some of them Adaptive or MA do a better job then VA. Glimpse on algorithm combinations rendering real-state, "edge-fluctuation", or different kinds of noise.



Something I call "Deinterlacing Response":
Normally short response time is best, but today's deinterlacers seem to tell us the reverse is true.. Here a weak attempt to explain: the deeper (so slower) the deinterlacer calculates algorithms on certain patterns, the higher qualified he is...

Next screenshot shows a nice Fluxus segment and if it starts moving VA produces kind of a fluctuating deinterlacing-zone. Inside the zone deinterlacing is partly possible.
Cool, "Live" study the calculations progress! Visually analyse the bottleneck of (video-) processor speed.


MA does also produce the shadow but much faster and not as wide. Adaptive and bob only flickering (fastest).


 

 

-> the lines in these pics are very tiny so it's important to see them in original size. The browser must not be zoomed in any direction. In Firefox and Internet Explorer just press Ctrl + 0 (zero).

-> Internet Explorer + AVR advertising might compress some of them anyway - also if your screen resolution is much less than 1920 wide - then you only have the chance to right-click and download them, sorry!



Resizing:
XP: VMR9 (EVR ??) is the only renderer that I know with the ability of no resizing 1920*1080 video at all,

Win7: EVR no resizing as well:



But: also players/options in players may cause resizing.


Overlay Mixer performs slight rezizing:



Tiny resizing like above affects only to clean displaying 1 pixel structures of the pattern and is nothing visible in normal video.
But will be well noticeable with all kinds of over/underscan or other resolutions then 1920*1080 (example):





Though motionless black+white horiz. lines cool & quiet, some coloured cause slight flickering even with VA, MA:





Ticker judder:
first ensure the display device (monitor/TV/beamer) is able to render the display refresh rate (fps) of the play-back device (PC, PS3, Receiver, HD Media/BD Player) resp. the video refresh rate (fps) of the pattern.


Testing deinterl. abilities of other media devices (monitors, TVs, beamers, PS3, Receivers, HD Media/BD Players, ...)
Important - ensure to set the output frequencies (fps) correspondent to the pattern.
Using the 1080i Cheese Slices:

- set output of the play-back device to 1080i to test the video processor of the display device
- set output of the play-back device to 1080p to test the video processor of the play-back device.

Most video processors built in "modern" media devices perform some kinds of MA. But there are amazing differences...





SD Test Patterns:

Most things like HD. DXVA switched on and working is a must have to see exactly the results in the screenshot. Regard that blowing up 480 lines even to a >17" screen will certainly cause much more deinterlacing incident. So some glasses on a shaking head are enough:

(All screenshots in original size)
CCC Deinterlacing options: Vector Adaptive (VA), Motion Adaptive(MA), Adaptive (A), bob and weave

-> the lines in the following pic, esp. the blue framed 1p horizontal are very tiny so it's important to see them in original size. The browser must not be zoomed in any direction. In Firefox and Internet Explorer just press Ctrl + 0 (zero).




As you can see in this non-scaled screenshot the differences between VA and MA are very significant and easy to distinguish. Important is the upper fat rim of his glasses:
- VA smooth, MA rippling
Note: the lower thin rim of his glasses will sometimes show very slight rippling even with VA. Switching to full screen appeals like a magnifying glass to the ripples depending on the size of your screen.

If you are still unsure exit MPC, enter Catalyst Control Center and switch to Motion adaptive. Then start the pattern again. If there's no difference or Vector adaptive is not selectable in CCC you've got other problems...


Download - Format (all MPEG-2 Transport Stream)

NTSC: MPEG2 - 640x480 - interlaced - 29.97fps - 9200Kbps
Audio: MPEG Audio 48000Hz stereo 192Kbps (silent - only to be compatible to some players)
https://dc2.safesync.com/FdSVjnr/off...?a=THRji7C2JO0


PAL: MPEG2 - 720x576 (4:3) - interlaced - 25.00fps - 8000Kbps
https://dc2.safesync.com/FdSVjnr/off...?a=nEMYwdW4GdQ


..to be continued..

Craig


renethx's Avatar renethx
04:11 AM Liked: 389
post #2 of 283
06-24-2009 | Posts: 16,243
Joined: Jan 2006
Thanks for a great test pattern!! This helps a lot to see what level of HD deinterlacing is actually working for not only ATI cards but also NVIDIA cards.
Monkeyface66's Avatar Monkeyface66
07:41 AM Liked: 10
post #3 of 283
06-26-2009 | Posts: 92
Joined: Aug 2008
Excellent videos and explanation!


Thank you!


----

Ich hoffe, du verbreitest diese wundervolle Erkärung auch in anderen Foren, damit sie nicht in Vergessenheit gerät!
blaubart's Avatar blaubart
11:26 PM Liked: 10
post #4 of 283
06-28-2009 | Posts: 161
Joined: Apr 2009
Thanks renethx, Monkeyface66, for not let me alone out here in wide world
But before writing I knew this is hard stuff and difficult to place right... whatever! People will find it as time goes by..

@ Monkeyface66
always at your service, German vers. here icl. SD-Pattern
jimwhite's Avatar jimwhite
10:39 AM Liked: 10
post #5 of 283
06-29-2009 | Posts: 5,372
Joined: Sep 2001
Thanks for the post and obvious work involved! I hope I can learn to use it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

always at your service, German vers. here icl. SD-Pattern

No NTSC version of the SD ???
boiler11's Avatar boiler11
02:08 PM Liked: 10
post #6 of 283
06-30-2009 | Posts: 425
Joined: Nov 2002
blaubart,

Thanks for the test pattern, very nice!

I noticed the same thing as renethx mentioned in the A severe bug in ATI display driver in Windows Vista and Windows 7 for deinterlacing thread. VA is not working with my 4550 and Cat 9.6.

I've switched back and forth between my 2600XT and 4550 about 5 times in the last 2 weeks trying to find the best combo. I'd like the 4550 to work so I can use audio over hdmi. With the 2600XT, I have to use analog.

I'm hoping to have time to test my onboard HD3200 and if that doesn't work try the 2600XT again. Does anyone know if VA is working with either of those chips? Is it only working with older Catalyst driver versions, or is 9.6 ok with those?

FYI, I have a 9600GT in the office and the pattern plays back great with Nvidia drivers 186.18.

Thanks,
Sean
sneakerx's Avatar sneakerx
07:26 PM Liked: 11
post #7 of 283
06-30-2009 | Posts: 326
Joined: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by boiler11 View Post

I noticed the same thing as renethx mentioned in the A severe bug in ATI display driver in Windows Vista and Windows 7 for deinterlacing thread. VA is not working with my 4550 and Cat 9.6.

I know some are just going to say I'm wrong or somehow mistaken, but I get vector adaptive deinterlacing for this test pattern with my Gigabyte HD4550 and the beta Cat 8.10 drivers. Yes, I know..."IMPOSSIBLE!" you'll say, "THAT CARD IS TOO WEAK!", but I swear it works. This is with Vista and Aero turned _on_. Perhaps there is a hardware difference in the Gigabyte version of this card?
blaubart's Avatar blaubart
01:56 AM Liked: 10
post #8 of 283
07-01-2009 | Posts: 161
Joined: Apr 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

No NTSC version of the SD ???

More service again, see edited bottom of topic..


@ boiler11
Quote:


I'm hoping to have time to test my onboard HD3200 and if that doesn't work try the 2600XT again. Does anyone know if VA is working with either of those chips? Is it only working with older Catalyst driver versions, or is 9.6 ok with those?

onboard HD3200 will definetly not, that's for sure.
2600XT - seen that? http://home.comcast.net/~exdeus/ati-hd2x00/
4550 - 9.2-9.5 some infinite loop issues but never VA missing. Thats only what I've been reading.. This Gigabyte is tested VA-positive. here - uuuh German ..

Quote:


FYI, I have a 9600GT in the office and the pattern plays back great with Nvidia drivers 186.18

Thank you, that's my interest. Would you say the 9600GT performs something like VA?
boiler11's Avatar boiler11
07:08 AM Liked: 10
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07-01-2009 | Posts: 425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

onboard HD3200 will definetly not, that's for sure.

That's what I figured, but I'm so stubborn, I'll probably still try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

2600XT - seen that? http://home.comcast.net/~exdeus/ati-hd2x00/

Yes, I have always used that script with my ATI cards. Not sure how much it matters with newer drivers though, except for the consistent color space thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

4550 - 9.2-9.5 some infinite loop issues but never VA missing. Thats only what I've been reading.. This Gigabyte is tested VA-positive. here - uuuh German ..

Hmm, well, when I first got my 4550, I tried it with multiple driver versions, but I can't remember exactly which ones. I'm sure I tried 9.4 and 9.5, and it failed to properly deinterlace the W6RZ test patterns. Those tests have always been my benchmark until your test arrived So I would assume your test would also fail with those drivers and my Sapphire 4550.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneakerx View Post

I know some are just going to say I'm wrong or somehow mistaken, but I get vector adaptive deinterlacing for this test pattern with my Gigabyte HD4550 and the beta Cat 8.10 drivers. Yes, I know..."IMPOSSIBLE!" you'll say, "THAT CARD IS TOO WEAK!", but I swear it works. This is with Vista and Aero turned _on_. Perhaps there is a hardware difference in the Gigabyte version of this card?

I think the 4550 is plenty powerful to do it, it's just a driver bug. I was also able to get good deinterlacing with some version of Cat 8.x and my Sapphire 4550 with Aero enabled. The problem with those drivers for me is that there is a bug in all Cat drivers prior to 9.4 with H.264. With DXVA, the video sometimes "gets stuck" at the same couple of frames while audio continues to play. This is no good for me because I use my PC for playback of H.264 streams from Dish network via an R5000 modded Vip211 and SageTV.

And, my 4550 with Cat 9.6 and Aero disabled produces VA with blaubart's test, but then I get terrible tearing with TV. I even tried using reclock to fix the tearing, but it didn't help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

Thank you, that's my interest. Would you say the 9600GT performs something like VA?

Yes, it looks like VA to me. Very good picture. Nice stable diagonal lines during motion. MUCH better than what I'm experiencing with my 4550 and Cat 9.6.
renethx's Avatar renethx
07:22 AM Liked: 389
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07-01-2009 | Posts: 16,243
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It looks like all GeForce GPUs have a HD pulldown detection issue. Try W6RZ "Film vertical and horizontal resolution test with motion and 32 pulldown 1920x1080" filmrez.ts. You shouldn't see black/white vertical edges if IVTC works fine. HD 4550 (with CCC 9.6) works fine if Aero is off.
boiler11's Avatar boiler11
07:31 AM Liked: 10
post #11 of 283
07-09-2009 | Posts: 425
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Finally had time to play.

Onboard HD32000

Garbage. Only bob or weave deinterlacing.

ATI 2600XT

VA deinterlacing with cat 9.6 and aero enabled. However, I've always had problems with some TV shows and my ATI cards. I'm pretty sure it's a 3:2 pulldown issue. Some 24 fps shows have really bad stuttering like frames are being shown in the wrong order. I have an especially troublesome clip of a 2 1/2 men show which is 24 fps in a 1080i (edit, it's 1080i, not 720p) broadcast. It's one of my benchmark videos. This card fails with all versions of cat I've ever tried.

Nvidia 8600 GT

Looks like Motion Adaptive to me, NOT VA. These cards have generally had trouble with the 2 1/2 men clip I mentioned above. There was an older version of the drivers, somewhere around 162.?? that handled it fine, but for a lot of versions after that it was broken. To my pleasant surprise, the 186.18 fix this again.

Nvidia 9600 GT

As mentioned previously, this card does a great job with blaubart's slices test. It also passes the 2 1/2 men clip test.

Nvidia GTS 250

VA deinterlacing and passes the 2 1/2 men clip test. This is now in my family room PC.


My ATI cards are now all sitting quietly in a closet unused where they belong
renethx's Avatar renethx
07:47 AM Liked: 389
post #12 of 283
07-09-2009 | Posts: 16,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boiler11 View Post

Finally had time to play.

Onboard HD32000

Garbage. Only bob or weave deinterlacing.

To be precise,

- HD 3200/3300 with a HT 2.0 processor: Only Bob and Weave work.

- HD 3200/3300 with a HT 3.0 processor: Motion adaptive works up to 1920x1080; only Bob and Weave work beyond that (i.e. under dual monitor).

HD 3200/3300 with HT 3.0 is the best IGP (as far as HD deinterlacing is concerned).
Mark_A_W's Avatar Mark_A_W
08:58 PM Liked: 10
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07-09-2009 | Posts: 8,110
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Interesting test patterns - I'm going to give them a try tonight.


But, I must confess I don't understand the obsession with deinterlacing...

What is it exactly that you are watching that needs deinterlacing?

- Bluray movies...nup.

- TS file movies, weave and 3:2 pulldown, no real deinterlacing (Dscaler decoder 1080i version).

- DVD movies...as above.

- TV shows...well, shows like Lost are progressive....nup, no fancy deinterlacing needed here either. The ONLY show I turn deinterlacing on for (via ffdshow) is Grand Designs.



So, um, enlighten me! Because I will not let video games driver developers touch my video. For me, all decoding is done in software, and deinterlacing is basically unneeded.
boiler11's Avatar boiler11
07:30 AM Liked: 10
post #14 of 283
07-10-2009 | Posts: 425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

Interesting test patterns - I'm going to give them a try tonight.


But, I must confess I don't understand the obsession with deinterlacing...

What is it exactly that you are watching that needs deinterlacing?

- Bluray movies...nup.

- TS file movies, weave and 3:2 pulldown, no real deinterlacing (Dscaler decoder 1080i version).

- DVD movies...as above.

- TV shows...well, shows like Lost are progressive....nup, no fancy deinterlacing needed here either. The ONLY show I turn deinterlacing on for (via ffdshow) is Grand Designs.



So, um, enlighten me! Because I will not let video games driver developers touch my video. For me, all decoding is done in software, and deinterlacing is basically unneeded.

I wasn't aware they banned interlaced content in Australia

I use my computers to watch TV with SageTV. We watch OTA NTSC Mpeg2, both 720p and 1080i and Dish H.264 both 720p and 1080i. The dish content comes to the PC via R5000 modded Vip211 boxes. Most of the Dish channels are 1080i.

I have tried Dscaler, ffdshow, and just about every other software deinterlacing directshow method I could find. None of them come close to what a good video card can do. And for 1080i mpeg2, the cpu load is huge!

As for 1080i H.264, there is absolutely no way to get good deinterlacing without using the video card. It's possible to decode in software and then let the videocard do the deinterlacing with the right codec, but not worth it.
Mark_A_W's Avatar Mark_A_W
04:09 PM Liked: 10
post #15 of 283
07-10-2009 | Posts: 8,110
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"I wasn't aware they banned interlaced content in Australia "

There's not much worth watching...

And CPU load isn't an issue with any model, proper, PC....you've got to be kidding, my PC can sharpen a bluray movies with ffdshow while running 7.1 channel digital room correction.

Which player are you guys using to get hardware deinterlacing working? MPC-HC with DXVA enabled maybe?

If you run DXVA how do you get Gamma adjustment?
Mark_A_W's Avatar Mark_A_W
05:49 PM Liked: 10
post #16 of 283
07-10-2009 | Posts: 8,110
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Ok, I played around with Arcsoft on my 2600XT.

I think I get Bob. Changing the slider in CCC makes no difference. Arcsoft deinterlacing control under Setup is always greyed out.

My display is running 1080i 96hz on a secondary monitor, Aero off.


Anyway, no huge deal, like I said earlier I mainly watch Bluray film sources (converted to MKV files...to get Gamma).
blaubart's Avatar blaubart
11:37 PM Liked: 10
post #17 of 283
07-10-2009 | Posts: 161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boiler11 View Post

I have tried Dscaler, ffdshow, and just about every other software deinterlacing directshow method I could find. None of them come close to what a good video card can do. And for 1080i mpeg2, the cpu load is huge!

As for 1080i H.264, there is absolutely no way to get good deinterlacing without using the video card. It's possible to decode in software and then let the videocard do the deinterlacing with the right codec, but not worth it.

..to show that is one of the reasons why I built Slicies.. and now I have related comments in other forums. 1080 interlaced is NOT a matter of quadcore. May be it is science to get DXVA to work on some video cards but it seems to be impossible to have comparable quality with software deinterlacing.

Just working on the h.264 Slicies. pooh..
cyrux's Avatar cyrux
02:06 AM Liked: 10
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07-12-2009 | Posts: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

To be precise,

- HD 3200/3300 with a HT 2.0 processor: Only Bob and Weave work.

- HD 3200/3300 with a HT 3.0 processor: Motion adaptive works up to 1920x1080; only Bob and Weave work beyond that (i.e. under dual monitor).

HD 3200/3300 with HT 3.0 is the best IGP (as far as HD deinterlacing is concerned).

I've an HD3200 IGP (MSI 7411 aka Media Live Diva board), Phenom II X3 705e, Win 7 RC1, Catalyst 9.6 and I'm not able to see advanced deinterlacing options, only bob and weave.

I've read it is required to turn off Aero; I've tried, but no luck

Could you tell me exact steps to enable advanced deinterlacing options?
vladd's Avatar vladd
02:27 AM Liked: 36
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07-12-2009 | Posts: 5,469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrux View Post

I've an HD3200 IGP (MSI 7411 aka Media Live Diva board), Phenom II X3 705e, Win 7 RC1, Catalyst 9.6 and I'm not able to see advanced deinterlacing options, only bob and weave.

I've read it is required to turn off Aero; I've tried, but no luck

Could you tell me exact steps to enable advanced deinterlacing options?

  1. Right click "My Computer"
  2. Select "Properties"
  3. Select "Advanced system settings" on the left
  4. Select "Advanced" tab -> "Performance" section -> "Settings"
  5. Select "Visual Effects" tab.
  6. Select "Custom" setting
  7. Uncheck "Enable desktop composition"

blaubart's Avatar blaubart
09:05 PM Liked: 10
post #20 of 283
07-13-2009 | Posts: 161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boiler11 View Post

And, my 4550 with Cat 9.6 and Aero disabled produces VA with blaubart's test, but then I get terrible tearing with TV. I even tried using reclock to fix the tearing, but it didn't help.

Hey boiler11, here is a first vers. of the H.264 Slicies. EDIT: no link, new vers. in post #32
Would be great if you could test it that way! -> my 4550 with Cat 9.6 and Aero disabled/enabeled.
Even if TV streaming vs. playing a video is sth. quite different the info how it runs under certain conditions coult help me to make it better and hopefully you. If possible run the pattern with the soft that does the TV streaming (if it has a player function). What I use for that is DVBViewer.

Here a first little chart of combos.
I tested it under all conditions possible to me at the moment - only some issues with
Overlay Mixer + MPC-HC + Haali Splitter / Gabest Splitter (HD3850 AGP, Cat 9.6, WinXP):

MPC-HC + internal MPC Video Decoder + Overlay -> black screen
MPC-HC + internal MPC Video Decoder + VMR9 -> ok

MPC-HC + PDVD8 + Overlay -> no DXVA
MPC-HC + PDVD8 + VMR9 -> ok!!

MPC-HC + Arcsoft + Overlay -> running too fast
MPC-HC + Arcsoft + VMR9 -> slide show

..also depending on the spitter: "MainConcept (Demo) MPEG Demultiplexer" instead of Haali:
MPC-HC + PDVD8 + Overlay -> ok! (icl. DXVA)
MPC-HC + Arcsoft + Overlay -> ok!
MPC-HC + Arcsoft + VMR9 -> ok!

DVBViewer + DVB Source + Haali splitter -> all ok!

- to remind: none of those overlay issues by MPEG2 rendering/testing. After all that en/decoding it seems to me H.264/AVC is not as established in softwares yet.

What's happening in Vista + EVR +/- Aero? Other players?

Thanx for paying attention to everybody (my best english)
Craig
renethx's Avatar renethx
02:33 AM Liked: 389
post #21 of 283
07-15-2009 | Posts: 16,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

here is a first vers. of the H.264 Slicies.

Somehow MPC Video Decoder in MPC HomeCinema can't play it, completely black screen. Radeon HD 4670, CCC 9.6, Win 7 x86, x64.

- MPC HomeCinema/Zoom Player+Haali/Gabest splitter+MPC Video Decoder+EVR/EVR Custom Presenter: Black screen.
- MPC HomeCinema/Zoom Player+Haali/Gabest splitter+Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder+EVR/EVR Custom Presenter: Good (VA works).
- MPC HomeCinema/Zoom Player+Haali/Gabest splitter+ffdshow Video Decoder with yadif+EVR/EVR Custom Presenter: Stops working.
- PowerDVD 9 Ultra: Good (VA works).
- TMT 3 Platinum: Good (VA works).

(Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder is Win7's built-in MPEG-2/H.264 video decoder.)
blaubart's Avatar blaubart
06:00 AM Liked: 10
post #22 of 283
07-15-2009 | Posts: 161
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Thanks renethx, great job!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Somehow MPC Video Decoder in MPC HomeCinema can't play it, completely black screen. Radeon HD 4670, CCC 9.6, Win 7 x86, x64.

Ok I see, my hope was MPC Video Decoder would play it with EVR/EVR Custom Presentor, cause WinXP's VMR9 does it VA working.

In Europe many people are using former trials (the time they generously left the filters in system after eval.) or OEM/Full versions (the time they shared generously their filters with other softwares) of PDVD or Arcsoft Decoders because the DVBViewer (most used for TV) has no built-in Decoder and MPC Video Decoder (stand-alone) doesn't work with DVBViewer.
So people never meet MPC Video Decoder playing the pattern with DVBViewer.

If I do the tests I always compare H.264-Slicies to a normal 1080i H.264 recording made by DVBViewer - cause even these recordings do not play under every condition. They are a bit reference to me what has to work and what is not so important.
But the recordings do run with >MPC-HC + MPC Video Decoder + Overlay< and that bothers me. I think if H.264-Slicies would play with this Overlay-config it would also run with EVR. Will work on it...

Only with your below config I would ask you if you could test if other 1080i-H.264 videos run fine. I think you should have some as much as I have been reading of you. A short TV-recording which contains the upper lines of the "video reference" section in Slicies as original (also good to easy determine VA) made by DVBViewer (1080i, H.264, 25fps, silent audio) is here.

- MPC HomeCinema/Zoom Player+Haali/Gabest splitter+ffdshow Video Decoder with yadif+EVR/EVR Custom Presenter: Stops working.

ffdshow means softw.-deinterlacing to me, without DXVA. An other interesting point..

thanks again,
craig
Nil Einne's Avatar Nil Einne
08:02 AM Liked: 10
post #23 of 283
07-16-2009 | Posts: 88
Joined: May 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

Thanks renethx, great job!!!


Ok I see, my hope was MPC Video Decoder would play it with EVR/EVR Custom Presentor, cause WinXP's VMR9 does it VA working.

In Europe many people are using former trials (the time they generously left the filters in system after eval.) or OEM/Full versions (the time they shared generously their filters with other softwares) of PDVD or Arcsoft Decoders because the DVBViewer (most used for TV) has no built-in Decoder and MPC Video Decoder (stand-alone) doesn't work with DVBViewer.
So people never meet MPC Video Decoder playing the pattern with DVBViewer.

If I do the tests I always compare H.264-Slicies to a normal 1080i H.264 recording made by DVBViewer - cause even these recordings do not play under every condition. They are a bit reference to me what has to work and what is not so important.
But the recordings do run with >MPC-HC + MPC Video Decoder + Overlay< and that bothers me. I think if H.264-Slicies would play with this Overlay-config it would also run with EVR. Will work on it...

Only with your below config I would ask you if you could test if other 1080i-H.264 videos run fine. I think you should have some as much as I have been reading of you. A short TV-recording which contains the upper lines of the "video reference" section in Slicies as original (also good to easy determine VA) made by DVBViewer (1080i, H.264, 25fps, silent audio) is here.

- MPC HomeCinema/Zoom Player+Haali/Gabest splitter+ffdshow Video Decoder with yadif+EVR/EVR Custom Presenter: Stops working.

ffdshow means softw.-deinterlacing to me, without DXVA. An other interesting point..

thanks again,
craig

Hi,

is it possible for you to produce a PAL h.264 version of the test pattern? Here in NZ, all broadcast HD content is h.264, some 720p some 1080i. I can test it with home made recordings, but it's easier to test it with the pattern. In fact all SDTV DVB-t is h.264 576i too.

The interlaced content is well known to have lots of problems with ATI cards just getting DXVA working even before we consider deinterlacing, it depends on OS, drivers and codec. But perhaps you already know this.
blaubart's Avatar blaubart
08:05 AM Liked: 10
post #24 of 283
07-18-2009 | Posts: 161
Joined: Apr 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil Einne View Post

is it possible for you to produce a PAL h.264 version of the test pattern? Here in NZ, all broadcast HD content is h.264, some 720p some 1080i. I can test it with home made recordings, but it's easier to test it with the pattern. In fact all SDTV DVB-t is h.264 576i too.

best wishes to NZ !

..it's not only a matter of frequecy (PAL 25 / NTSC 29.97 fps)..
H.264 offers much more possible differences in stream processing then MPEG2 and it seems to be every country or even broadcaster does a bit his own thing.
And as seen above DVB cards/players/codecs/renderers/splitters cannot handle H.264 as foolproof as MPEG2 yet.
Maybe this becomes better the next years.

So meanwhile I wonder if it's useful to check for VA Deinterlacing using h.264 cause as far as I can see - if VA works with MPEG2 it will also 100% with H.264 - if you get H.264 to run propperly..

..or what would you say?

Edit: you could help me if you do a test with this PAL 25fps h.264 1080i video (German Broadcasting):
A short TV-recording which contains the upper lines of the "video reference" section in Slicies as original (also good to easy determine VA) made by DVBViewer (1080i, H.264, 25fps, silent audio) is here.
- how does it run generally on your mashine(s)? comparable with NZ recordings?
- if VA is working the long square line should show no stepping.
tempel's Avatar tempel
06:30 AM Liked: 10
post #25 of 283
07-23-2009 | Posts: 1
Joined: Jul 2009
Hi,
I am currently trying to improve deinterlacing code for a TV software and want to thank you for providing these test patterns. They're very helpful for my testing.

However, I think there is one error in the 1080i PAL movie (haven't tried the others yet): at 5 seconds into the movie, the 1p blocks appear always black and white, even in their original, interlaced, representation, it appears to me.
blaubart's Avatar blaubart
11:22 PM Liked: 10
post #26 of 283
07-25-2009 | Posts: 161
Joined: Apr 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by tempel View Post

However, I think there is one error in the 1080i PAL movie (haven't tried the others yet): at 5 seconds into the movie, the 1p blocks appear always black and white, even in their original, interlaced, representation, it appears to me.

Hi tempel,
meanwhile all MPEG2 Slicies are tested positive in various hard/soft environments, positive means they show rel. precisely what you see in the screenshots above choosing the CCC deinterlacing options (ATI/AMD 3000, 4000 series cards), also good Nvidia HD cards perform VectorAdaptive.

If the 1p blocks appear always black and white (flickering or not?) means generally 1 or more components of the playback chain cannot dissolve correctly (down to 1p) the odd + even frame.
1p ok during standstill + fully black and white only during movement is something I close to never experienced. Sounds like a disabled weave but then you should see combing. What is your setup?
PanamaMike's Avatar PanamaMike
09:52 AM Liked: 10
post #27 of 283
07-27-2009 | Posts: 2,794
Joined: Nov 2000
According to this test, which gfx card does it all or comes closest to doing it all?
I'm looking for a passively cooled solution. Thus far the card listed that does VA is one that requires a fan.

Any suggestions?

Mike
boiler11's Avatar boiler11
10:10 AM Liked: 10
post #28 of 283
07-27-2009 | Posts: 425
Joined: Nov 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanamaMike View Post

According to this test, which gfx card does it all or comes closest to doing it all?
I'm looking for a passively cooled solution. Thus far the card listed that does VA is one that requires a fan.

Any suggestions?

Mike

Nvidia 9600GT and ATI 2600XT both do VA and are fanless. But ATI has lots of other problems: hdmi switching and worse inverse telecine than Nvidia are biggest issues for me. Nvidia doens't do inverse telecine perfect, but better than ATI in my experience.

Edit: fans aren't all bad. I just put an Nvidia GTS 250 in my family room. The fan is very quiet after drivers load. It's a dual slot and exhausts directly out of back of case. However, it's also huge ...
renethx's Avatar renethx
07:16 PM Liked: 389
post #29 of 283
07-27-2009 | Posts: 16,243
Joined: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanamaMike View Post

According to this test, which gfx card does it all or comes closest to doing it all?
I'm looking for a passively cooled solution. Thus far the card listed that does VA is one that requires a fan.

Any suggestions?

Mike

HIS H467PS1GP Radeon HD 4670 1GB
blaubart's Avatar blaubart
09:18 PM Liked: 10
post #30 of 283
07-27-2009 | Posts: 161
Joined: Apr 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanamaMike View Post

According to this test, which gfx card does it all or comes closest to doing it all?
I'm looking for a passively cooled solution. Thus far the card listed that does VA is one that requires a fan.

..like boiler11 said: 'fans aren't all bad'
I prefer slow spinning slot coolers, they are inaudible + the waste-heat is removed promptly (in statu nascendi) out of the HTPC.
I've been building such solutions by myself since 2004 but then HIS came taking over my published idea without paying me a single $ . They call it IceQ..
HIS HD 4670 IceQ

I did not test this card but my HIS HD3850 AGP has IceQ and it is really quiet! But maybe the cooler will disable the 2nd PCIe slot?

Edit: new h.264 Slicies version coming soon...

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