Who streams 1080p via Coax? (MoCa) - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Thank you for the drawing but I'm still a little confused. See my current configuration. I also have a splitter downstairs (no diagram yet).

If anyone can help by looking at my config I'd appreciate it.

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post #62 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

If anyone can help by looking at my config I'd appreciate it.

I took a quick look at the PDF and the only thing I could think of is that the splitter may only be allowing the MoCA traffic to travel between the input and output ports and not output to output. What brand are those splitters? When you had the NIM100 connected after the splitter, on what port on the splitter was it connected to? This setup is very similar to mine (other than I use the Actiontec FIOS router) and it worked with both balanced (-5db loss on each port) and unbalanced (-3.5db, -7db, -7db) Regal 3-way 1Ghz Splitters.

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post #63 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mackworth View Post

so are you saying that I can't connect a NIM100 to the MOCA network made by my FIOS router? How do I make sure they run on different channels?

I live an old house, so running ethernet really isn't an option as I am really banking on MOCA.



I can't use the in/out because the TV will actually be in a different room. Regarding the Diplexer, it seems like most of the ones I saw cut at 950, and that still fine? I guess I can try both and see how it works.

Remember on a diplexer the frequency bands are divided between the two output ports.

The one labeled TV or Antenna will pass the 5-860Mhz band.
The one labeled SAT will pass 950-2150Mhz. (I will check on my Actiontec at home when I get there but I believe MoCA uses bands in the 950-1200Mhz range, I would believe the NIM100 uses the same bands).

The MoCA device is connected to the SAT port.
Your TV/STB/Cable Modem is connected to the TV or Antenna port.

UPDATE: Checked my ActionTec. It has six channels it can use between 1150Mhz and 1400Mhz spaced 50Mhz apart. Apparently, ActionTec does not support the band in the 900Mhz range.

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post #64 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

Diplexor is only necessary if your transmitting Digital and analog signals over the same wire which need to be segregated. - FIOS requires the full spectrum as they already use MoCA as part of their implementation and is a full digital implementation (No VHF/UHF signals anymore)- in other words if you split the connection you will be turning off MoCA and/or TV for your STB - it will have one part of the spectrum but not the other.. Diplexors came out because Satellite transmitted a digital signal but people still wanted to use their antenna or basic cable (VHF/UHF Signal) without having to swap out the cable. FIOS is now purely digital and operates in the full spectrum not utilizing VHF or UHF signals.

No that is not correct.

FIOS TV is, for the most part, a traditional Cable TV implementation. Linear Television is carried on QAMs located between 54 - 860Mhz in the traditional CATV 6Mhz allocations.

A Diplexer works on separating / combining two or more signals based on frequency bands. It doesn't matter if the bands are carrying NTSC, ATSC, QAMs, MoCA, HPNA, or Satellite signals.

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post #65 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 01:31 PM
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Looks like mine is using Channel 1 - 1150MHz for its MOCA network. I hope thats something that my NIM100 can use otherwise I will have to pick up a Actiontec instead.
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post #66 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmallory View Post

I took a quick look at the PDF and the only thing I could think of is that the splitter may only be allowing the MoCA traffic to travel between the input and output ports and not output to output. What brand are those splitters? When you had the NIM100 connected after the splitter, on what port on the splitter was it connected to? This setup is very similar to mine (other than I use the Actiontec FIOS router) and it worked with both balanced (-5db loss on each port) and unbalanced (-3.5db, -7db, -7db) Regal 3-way 1Ghz Splitters.

I don't remember what port I hooked the NIM100 up to after the splitter but I'm sure it was the -3.5. The make/model splitter is Extreme/BDS103H
http://www.extreme-broadband.com/res...ries-12F07.pdf

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post #67 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I don't remember what port I hooked the NIM100 up to after the splitter but I'm sure it was the -3.5. The make/model splitter is Extreme/BDS103H
http://www.extreme-broadband.com/res...ries-12F07.pdf

The NIM-100 was connected "directly" (no splitters between it and the 3-way splitter) to the 3-way splitter right?

It would be a stretch but I would check that splitter and replace it with a Regal or Antronic. Also I would verify that the cable that you are using on that -3.5db port is RG-6...something is blocking that signal.

I did a google search and it appears that the NIM-100 uses 1150Mhz as it's default frequency. This matches Channel 1 on the ActionTec router.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...73324&page=127

According to the post, it is configurable but if you set the ActionTec 1150Mhz, they should sync up.

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post #68 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 04:06 PM
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Another thought....I wonder if the privacy mode is set on the ActionTec, NIM, or both.

But I guess what I would check first is make sure both the ActionTec and the NIM are running on the same frequency.

EDIT: No you mentioned it works when you connect it to the input of the splitter. It has to be that splitter or the cable on that one port. Did you happen to try to connect the NIM to one of the -7 ports to see if it works there?

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post #69 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmallory View Post

Another thought....I wonder if the privacy mode is set on the ActionTec, NIM, or both.

But I guess what I would check first is make sure both the ActionTec and the NIM are running on the same frequency.

EDIT: No you mentioned it works when you connect it to the input of the splitter. It has to be that splitter or the cable on that one port. Did you happen to try to connect the NIM to one of the -7 ports to see if it works there?

The main cable line comes into an external box (our house is circa 1915 so very old) and at the box it splits up. I don't know what splitter is inside the box. The cable is further split from there but I can't follow all the lines so there is no doubt signal degradation. There is a line in the living room (with a power booster provided by comcast); a line in our bedroom (that's connected to a DVR) another line in another room (currently not connected/in-use) and another line out to our guest house that's not in-use (but will be once we get the floor refinished and walls painted). The NIM100's are pass-throughs - they do not alter the signal in any way - just a way to get ethernet running over the lines so there is no configuration for the boxes (nor should be needed). This just shipped to me:4 PACK Eagle Aspen Satellite Diplexer Signal Combiner & Splitters, D2200 so I'll play around with those (and I'll try combo's of using the current splitter and/or the ones on the way).

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post #70 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

The main cable line comes into an external box (our house is circa 1915 so very old) and at the box it splits up. I don't know what splitter is inside the box. The cable is further split from there but I can't follow all the lines so there is no doubt signal degradation. There is a line in the living room (with a power booster provided by comcast); a line in our bedroom (that's connected to a DVR) another line in another room (currently not connected/in-use) and another line out to our guest house that's not in-use (but will be once we get the floor refinished and walls painted). The NIM100's are pass-throughs - they do not alter the signal in any way - just a way to get ethernet running over the lines so there is no configuration for the boxes (nor should be needed). This just shipped to me:4 PACK Eagle Aspen Satellite Diplexer Signal Combiner & Splitters, D2200 so I'll play around with those (and I'll try combo's of using the current splitter and/or the ones on the way).

Don't take it the wrong way...but ewww...that is what I was afraid of. What you describe here isn't exactly what is on your diagram.

I will assume that the NIM-100s are all set for the same frequency.

I will assume that the NIM was not connected to the living room drop with the amp (MoCA will not pass through most (if any) amps).

What I would do is this and this is exactly how I set my first MoCA network up.

You will need a splitter and some RG-6 patch cable.

I would take the splitter and connect each NIM to an output of the splitter and verify that you can make the NIMs see each other in that little self-contained environment. This way you can verify that the NIMs are working correctly without any variables from your "production" environment causing problems. If you can make the NIMs see each other in the "lab" environment, then the problem is in your house wiring (which wouldn't be surprising given what you have told us.)

Remember this is a standalone coax network for testing, do not connect it to your house wiring until you are sure the NIMs are working. I will attach a quick and dirty diagram describing the test setup.

Edit: Added Test/Lab Diagram
LL

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post #71 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmallory View Post

Don't take it the wrong way...but ewww...that is what I was afraid of. What you describe here isn't exactly what is on your diagram.

I will assume that the NIM-100s are all set for the same frequency.

I will assume that the NIM was not connected to the living room drop with the amp (MoCA will not pass through most (if any) amps).

What I would do is this and this is exactly how I set my first MoCA network up.

You will need a splitter and some RG-6 patch cable.

I would take the splitter and connect each NIM to an output of the splitter and verify that you can make the NIMs see each other in that little self-contained environment. This way you can verify that the NIMs are working correctly without any variables from your "production" environment causing problems. If you can make the NIMs see each other in the "lab" environment, then the problem is in your house wiring (which wouldn't be surprising given what you have told us.)

Remember this is a standalone coax network for testing, do not connect it to your house wiring until you are sure the NIMs are working. I will attach a quick and dirty diagram describing the test setup.

My NIM's DO see each other and work - but there are two lights on them - one is power and the other is the signal -if it's a steady light then it's 'full' speed if it blinks than it's not full speed - mine blinks which is why, I believe, HD streams from upstairs (popcorn hour A110) to the WD TV LIve 'stutters' and vice versa. What I was also going to try (but don't have) is to run an ethernet that's long enough (@100') from the router upstairs to the WD downstairs to see if it's the MOCA or the coax itself. ps - thank you for taking the time to respond.

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post #72 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 04:57 PM
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No problem. The test lab scenario would probably work to test MoCA. Connect it standalone with a splitter and some patch cables and see if it shows a full speed signal. If it does than you know the issue is somewhere within your coax infrastructure.

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post #73 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

The main cable line comes into an external box (our house is circa 1915 so very old) and at the box it splits up.

Just had a laugh... The house I grew up in, and where my parents still live was built in 1764. Now thats old for the US.
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post #74 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 07:40 PM
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FIOS is not a traditional implementation if speaking of when a diplexor first came to the market. A diplexor is completely unnecessary in a fios implementation. FIOS is completely digital implementation with ALL of its signal above 860Mhz.. a diplexor was ued in a hybrid digital / analog signals over the same coax cable. 54 - 860Mhz was used for the analog signal to obtain local VHF/UHF signals... 950 - 2300 was used for the digital signal...

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Originally Posted by jmallory View Post

No that is not correct.

FIOS TV is, for the most part, a traditional Cable TV implementation. Linear Television is carried on QAMs located between 54 - 860Mhz in the traditional CATV 6Mhz allocations.

A Diplexer works on separating / combining two or more signals based on frequency bands. It doesn't matter if the bands are carrying NTSC, ATSC, QAMs, MoCA, HPNA, or Satellite signals.

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post #75 of 121 Old 12-14-2009, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jmallory View Post

No problem. The test lab scenario would probably work to test MoCA. Connect it standalone with a splitter and some patch cables and see if it shows a full speed signal. If it does than you know the issue is somewhere within your coax infrastructure.

Interesting - your diagram suggests testing the coax while mine was testing the ethernet - I surmise either way would result in an answer. Running an RJ45 cable from the router to the extender downstairs would give me the same answer. I don't know if I mentioned that the only way to get wired internet downstairs is the cable into the room to the NIM, then the ethernet from the NIM to a linksys 8 port switch. Then I have the HDTIvo, PS3, slingbox, HDDVD & WD Live TV plugged in (along with a laptop)

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post #76 of 121 Old 12-17-2009, 08:12 AM
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Got my diplexers in - it will be until this weekend until i get a chance to begin 'playing' with them to see if it helps w/the HD streaming.

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post #77 of 121 Old 12-17-2009, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

FIOS is not a traditional implementation if speaking of when a diplexor first came to the market. A diplexor is completely unnecessary in a fios implementation. FIOS is completely digital implementation with ALL of its signal above 860Mhz.. a diplexor was ued in a hybrid digital / analog signals over the same coax cable. 54 - 860Mhz was used for the analog signal to obtain local VHF/UHF signals... 950 - 2300 was used for the digital signal...

Still not correct. Analog and Digital Linear TV are within the 54-860Mhz tuning space. From what I understand, OnDemand differs from the typical cable implementation in that OnDemand on FIOS is IP based where on typical cable, OnDemand programming is implemented on QAMs.

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post #78 of 121 Old 12-17-2009, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Interesting - your diagram suggests testing the coax while mine was testing the ethernet - I surmise either way would result in an answer. Running an RJ45 cable from the router to the extender downstairs would give me the same answer. I don't know if I mentioned that the only way to get wired internet downstairs is the cable into the room to the NIM, then the ethernet from the NIM to a linksys 8 port switch. Then I have the HDTIvo, PS3, slingbox, HDDVD & WD Live TV plugged in (along with a laptop)

How you were testing would eliminate the end devices. What I am suggesting would tell you if the problem was the MoCA equipment or the coax infrastructure.

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post #79 of 121 Old 12-17-2009, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jmallory View Post

How you were testing would eliminate the end devices. What I am suggesting would tell you if the problem was the MoCA equipment or the coax infrastructure.

I'll review your diagram again this weekend when I begin testing and I'll see if I can perform what your diagram has. I was speaking with a computer professional yesterday: is it true that if my switch is 10/100 it's not fast enough to support HD streaming?

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post #80 of 121 Old 12-18-2009, 03:47 AM
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Depends more on the switching fabric of the switch then the port speed (assuming 100 mbits / sec, obviously 10 mbit/sec wouldn't be enough). I had an 8-port gigabit desktop switch that couldn't do 720p/1080i content out of Media Center and I have seen business / enterprise class 10/100 switches that could.

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I have no problem streaming 1080p / HD Audio from my 100 Mb fios router... still have issue streaming it using my NIM100 which in theory supports 100Mb stream (in the same room with NO splitters in between)... Unfortunately bandwidth is only one small piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately, there are many many more factors that can affect video and audio over Ethernet - biggest culprits are latency and jitter.

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Depends more on the switching fabric of the switch then the port speed (assuming 100 mbits / sec, obviously 10 mbit/sec wouldn't be enough). I had an 8-port gigabit desktop switch that couldn't do 720p/1080i content out of Media Center and I have seen business / enterprise class 10/100 switches that could.

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post #82 of 121 Old 12-20-2009, 09:52 PM
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Hi Guys,

I am looking to send a HDMI Signal from my HTPC over MOCA as opposed to trying to wire through the walls.

Can I "daisy chain" the existing HDMI over Cat5e products with a MOCA NETGEAR MCAB1001? Or is there a better way to this?

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.
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post #83 of 121 Old 12-21-2009, 03:41 AM
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Sorry, doesn't work that way. MoCA is a way of carrying Ethernet on Coax.

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post #84 of 121 Old 12-21-2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

I have no problem streaming 1080p / HD Audio from my 100 Mb fios router... still have issue streaming it using my NIM100 which in theory supports 100Mb stream (in the same room with NO splitters in between)... Unfortunately bandwidth is only one small piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately, there are many many more factors that can affect video and audio over Ethernet - biggest culprits are latency and jitter.

Alas, I tried the diplexers I purchased and the SAT did not talk to my cable modem but the TV out did and the SAT did not talk to my TV when I tried that so that was a waste of $14 for the 4 diplexers. And then I directly connected one MOCA to the inbound cable (where I originally had it after the power boost adapter) and got the flashing green light "solid" which told me that the signal was as good as it gets (without testing speed) however trying to watch Cars from the Popcorn Hour upstairs to downstairs still was unwatchable due to stuttering and no sound which tells me it's definitely a bandwith issue. Oh well - looks like I'll have to copy any HD movies my better half wants to be able to watch downstairs to the WD HD Live USB drives...

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post #85 of 121 Old 12-21-2009, 08:38 AM
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Why were you connecting the diplexers to the cable modem? I thought you were using the diplexers to connect the TVs and the MoCA devices. If I would have known that, I could of told you that diplexers would not work with the Cable Modems.

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post #86 of 121 Old 12-21-2009, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmallory View Post

Why were you connecting the diplexers to the cable modem? I thought you were using the diplexers to connect the TVs and the MoCA devices. If I would have known that, I could of told you that diplexers would not work with the Cable Modems.

I misspoke - I did connect the diplex to the MoCA. I connected it after the MoCA and from there tried to split it.

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post #87 of 121 Old 12-21-2009, 08:44 AM
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I had success streaming a mkv rip I made of the dark night with profile 4.1 and FLAC 7.1 audio and that was with a splitter . Didn't notice any stuttering problem.

Pretty happy with the results so far.
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post #88 of 121 Old 12-21-2009, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I misspoke - I did connect the diplex to the MoCA. I connected it after the MoCA and from there tried to split it.

Isn't the point of the diplex to split BEFORE the MOCA device? Maybe I am just confused.
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post #89 of 121 Old 12-21-2009, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I misspoke - I did connect the diplex to the MoCA. I connected it after the MoCA and from there tried to split it.

You need to send the SAT out to your MoCA only and your TV out to your TV and/or Cable modem.. Split the output from the TV port using a regular splitter..

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post #90 of 121 Old 12-21-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnosis4U2NV View Post

You need to send the SAT out to your MoCA only and your TV out to your TV and/or Cable modem.. Split the output from the TV port using a regular splitter..

If that's the case - then that means I don't connect the outbound coax from the MoCA to anything ? Just the ethernet? I'll give that a whirl tonight...

"..where you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

Wryker is offline  
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