Who streams 1080p via Coax? (MoCa) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 121 Old 06-25-2009, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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The Netgear consumer device has a 10/100 ethernet port on it, but I believe "true MoCa" can do 250Mbps. First, I am assuming that the device will therefore make full use of the 100Mbps. If so, is that enough bandwidth to stream a Blu-Ray off of a server? Thanks.
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post #2 of 121 Old 06-25-2009, 12:49 PM
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I have been able to test both the Actiontec MI424WR and 2200, and both will maxout a 100 Mbps connection(11.5 or so MBps). Since my top Blu-ray is 40Mbps I have not seen an issue here. I am about to add a third Moca, so I will be curious as to if that causes any issues.
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post #3 of 121 Old 06-25-2009, 12:56 PM
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I have seen average transfer speeds as high at 75mbit/s depending on the the speed of the NAS.

If you're relatively comfortable with basic router configuration, you can find some used mi424wr routers on ebay for 25-30 each and configure them as bridges.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145636
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post #4 of 121 Old 06-25-2009, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I was considering the Actiontec route as well. The one item that drew me to the Netgear was that it claims to encrypt the data between both points on the bridge. Can the Actiontec hacked bridge do the same? I live in an apartment in New York City, and there are a ton of people on the same cable node that I am on, and I don't want to leave an open network connection to anyone looking. Are there any filters that I could add that block all outgoing moca traffic from my apartment? (It enters at one drop location) I know that certain amplifiers have that unintended consequence, but in this case I'd be doing it on purpose. Thanks.
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post #5 of 121 Old 06-25-2009, 03:36 PM
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It's my understanding that MoCA cannot go back through an amplifier, even one that is safe for cable modems.

See post # 11 here.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...95#post7302795
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post #6 of 121 Old 07-29-2009, 06:24 AM
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The actiontecs support DES encryption between routers for this type of scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhorwitz View Post

Thanks guys. I was considering the Actiontec route as well. The one item that drew me to the Netgear was that it claims to encrypt the data between both points on the bridge. Can the Actiontec hacked bridge do the same? I live in an apartment in New York City, and there are a ton of people on the same cable node that I am on, and I don't want to leave an open network connection to anyone looking. Are there any filters that I could add that block all outgoing moca traffic from my apartment? (It enters at one drop location) I know that certain amplifiers have that unintended consequence, but in this case I'd be doing it on purpose. Thanks.


..

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post #7 of 121 Old 07-29-2009, 07:33 AM
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I personally am having issues stream HD content using the Actiontech setup. I am getting anywhere from 65 Mbs to 95 Mbs but not sustained; I believe due to this fact I get HUGE stuttering playing VC1 encoded TrueHD/DTSMA/FLAC audio movies. Transferring files, SD Movies, Browsing I have no issues... I have tried everything from swapping out splitters, setting QoS, changing driver config, etc.

What I suspect is that since I have FIOS and am using the Actiontech FIOS router as my start point with the end point being another Actiontech router that there is some type of conflict with the STBs as they are on the same channel... I can not change the channel as this will affect my STB guide (FIOS uses the internal MoCA for its own purposes). So net net.. I have not tried this but I believe I would need a pair running on its own Channel to separate out the traffic... Dont know... Can anyone comment on this?
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post #8 of 121 Old 07-29-2009, 08:17 AM
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The router outputs to only one device at a time and can only be configured for one channel. You may be getting chasnnel interference from another router in your neighborhood so I suggest that you try configuring your router for either the lowest or highest channel number available.
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post #9 of 121 Old 07-29-2009, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

It's my understanding that MoCA cannot go back through an amplifier, even one that is safe for cable modems.

See post # 11 here.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...95#post7302795

MOCA can go through an amplifier. I'm using a Motorola 4 way splitter/bi-directional amplifier. This is what I have at home.




As you can see, MOCA serves as the backbone of my home network.
All of them are working pretty well. I've had 4 HD recordings going on at the same time and no dropped frames. But if you look at my topology, only 2 HD streams are going through the MOCA when I had 4 HD recordings going on, from the HD HomeRun in the Guest Room to the Family Room.

Hope This helps.
LL
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post #10 of 121 Old 07-29-2009, 05:31 PM
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Interesting... I noticed that you are using MoCA bridges even though you have a MocA diplexor (You using FIOS?)... Are the bridges running off the same channel as the diplexor?

What brand MoCA diplexor and Bridges are you using?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcuesico View Post

MOCA can go through an amplifier. I'm using a Motorola 4 way splitter/bi-directional amplifier. This is what I have at home.




As you can see, MOCA serves as the backbone of my home network.
All of them are working pretty well. I've had 4 HD recordings going on at the same time and no dropped frames. But if you look at my topology, only 2 HD streams are going through the MOCA when I had 4 HD recordings going on, from the HD HomeRun in the Guest Room to the Family Room.

Hope This helps.

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post #11 of 121 Old 07-29-2009, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcuesico View Post

MOCA can go through an amplifier. I'm using a Motorola 4 way splitter/bi-directional amplifier. This is what I have at home.

Hope This helps.

I salute you on the delightful complexity of your network.

Regarding going through the amplifier, most amplifier/splitters are serial, with an amplifier section and then a splitter. So, the MoCA data doesn't need to go back through the amplifier, only through the splitter. If you tried connecting a device to the other side of the amplifier it shouldn't work.
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post #12 of 121 Old 07-29-2009, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

Interesting... I noticed that you are using MoCA bridges even though you have a MocA diplexor (You using FIOS?)... Are the bridges running off the same channel as the diplexor?

What brand MoCA diplexor and Bridges are you using?

I'm subscribing to Time Warner Cable. I'm cheap; I'm only subscribing to get internet access and local HD channels in QAM. I usually just watch shows on Hulu.com

The MOCA diplexor is a passive device. I'm using a Soontai DPX3-864/1125-1525. The MOCA interface is labeled C.LINK.
Here's their website. http://www.soontai.com/MoCA-dpx.htm

The 4 MOCA bridges are communicating with each other between 1125Mhz and 1525Mhz.

The MOCA bridges that I'm using are Mototech MOCA adapters. They are kind of hard to find, but you can probably get them in ebay. You can look for Motorola NIM100, those are MOCA bridges also.


So here's the setup in my guest room. The Mototech MOCA adapter and SiliconDust HDHomeRun.

I should really paint the wooden stand I put the HD Tuner & MOCA adapter. It looks unfinished.

Hope this helps.
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post #13 of 121 Old 07-29-2009, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

I salute you on the delightful complexity of your network.

Regarding going through the amplifier, most amplifier/splitters are serial, with an amplifier section and then a splitter. So, the MoCA data doesn't need to go back through the amplifier, only through the splitter. If you tried connecting a device to the other side of the amplifier it shouldn't work.

I'm using a Motorola BDA S4 4-way splitter amplifier.

Amazon Link http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Signa.../dp/B000WPGRKK

I haven't tried connecting a MOCA device on the input side of the amplifier, only on the output side. I don't know what's inside the Motorola BDA S4. If the Motorola BDA S4 first amplifies the signal and then splits it, then I take my word back. I didn't understand the issue completely when I first answered your post.

Just curious, wouldn't you want to put the amplifier as close to Home's RF cable input? I tried putting an amplifier close to the HD tuner before, it was amplifier both good and bad signals. My signal strength was high, but I was getting awful picture. When I moved the amplifier closer to the home's RF cable input, I got better picture.

So actually thinking about this, isn't it actually good that MOCA doesn't go through an amplifier? That way you could think of the amplifier as a "firewall" of sorts. If MOCA went through an amplifier, then someone from outside could put a tap into your cable feed and have access to your home network. Just a thought.
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post #14 of 121 Old 07-30-2009, 06:43 AM
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I am more convinced that I am getting channel conflict with the FIOS transmission... Its painful for me to purchase another MoCA device at this point... Im on the fence at this point.. it would upset me to purchase another device and have issues
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post #15 of 121 Old 07-30-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcuesico View Post

I'm subscribing to Time Warner Cable. I'm cheap; I'm only subscribing to get internet access and local HD channels in QAM. I usually just watch shows on Hulu.com

The MOCA diplexor is a passive device. I'm using a Soontai DPX3-864/1125-1525. The MOCA interface is labeled C.LINK.
Here's their website.

What are the benefits of using a diplexer vs. a splitter? I thought that diplexers were mainly used for FIOS to keep the STB MoCA communications from interfering with the regular/computer MoCA communications? Is there some additional benefit/purpose?

Thanks
F
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post #16 of 121 Old 07-30-2009, 10:36 AM
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Why do you believe a diplexer is needed for FIOS ? FIOS today transmits TCP/IP and TV signal without the use of a diplexer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

What are the benefits of using a diplexer vs. a splitter? I thought that diplexers were mainly used for FIOS to keep the STB MoCA communications from interfering with the regular/computer MoCA communications? Is there some additional benefit/purpose?

Thanks
F

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post #17 of 121 Old 07-30-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

Why do you believe a diplexer is needed for FIOS ? FIOS today transmits TCP/IP and TV signal without the use of a diplexer.

I don't have FIOS, but it was my understanding that periodically (not usually) the data functions (not regular TV reception) of the STBs that were performed via MoCA interfered with the regular/computer MoCA data transfers.
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post #18 of 121 Old 07-30-2009, 12:30 PM
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FIOS combines their TV signal within the same spectrum as their IP communication. Each STB communiates via IP back to the main router for all program guide information through the same COAX port as what TV is transmitted on which is why I suspect I am having interference.. I am routing OTHER packets other then just guide and VOD packets within the same spectrum.. I believe this is causing my issue.. In other words its more of an issue interoping within my home FIOS network (which I created using MoCA) rather then MoCA itself..

I believe changing the channel on the device would help unfortunately if I do that then all my devices need to be changed including my STBs - which cant be done..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

I don't have FIOS, but it was my understanding that periodically (not usually) the data functions (not regular TV reception) of the STBs that were performed via MoCA interfered with the regular/computer MoCA data transfers.

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post #19 of 121 Old 07-30-2009, 12:49 PM
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I have never had to change the channel being used on any wireless device such as a STB, a wireless printer or a Wireless latptop. In fact my wireless devices do not have a channel number option. They all use what ever channel is currently being used by my router for the network name they are programmed to log onto. I can the routers preferred channel dynamicaly and none of my wireless devices drop a connection. AFAIK 11a, b, g and n all work in this same manner.
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post #20 of 121 Old 07-30-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

What are the benefits of using a diplexer vs. a splitter? I thought that diplexers were mainly used for FIOS to keep the STB MoCA communications from interfering with the regular/computer MoCA communications? Is there some additional benefit/purpose?

Thanks
F

A diplexer splits the frequency band from 5Mhz to 1525Mhz into two bands 5-1000Mhz and 1000Mhz - 1525Mhz. CAble TV operates between 5Mhz and 1000Mhz. MOCA works from 1125-1525Mhz. MOCA also supports another channel around 864Mhz. In Theory, the full power of the signal can pass through the diplexer. So full power between 5Mhz-1000Mhz will be passed from the RF feed to the Cable TV port of the diplexer. Full power between 1000Mhz - 1525Mhz will be passed to the MOCA port. So in theory, there is no loss of signal power as it goes through the diplexer.

A splitter will send the same band to both ports. It will split the power between the two legs of the splitter. So the full frequency band 5Mhz-1525Mhz is present on both legs of the split. As a result, the signal will lose power as it goes through the splitter.

Diplexers are used to separate the MOCA traffic between STB and the customer's computer. So the different STB can communicate using MOCA operating in the 864Mhz frequency band. The customer's internal LAN communications will operate in the 1000Mhz -1525Mhz band. The two network traffic won't interfere with each other.

That way a remote STB can continue to consume a IP video stream from the main STB without dropping frames while the home owner runs bit torrent/web server/play internet games/etc on his/her computer.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

-Josef
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post #21 of 121 Old 07-30-2009, 03:07 PM
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Innnnteresting. I've had issues with weak TV signals before, so this may be a solution. Where did you buy yours?

F



Quote:
Originally Posted by jcuesico View Post

A diplexer splits the frequency band from 5Mhz to 1525Mhz into two bands 5-1000Mhz and 1000Mhz - 1525Mhz. CAble TV operates between 5Mhz and 1000Mhz. MOCA works from 1125-1525Mhz. MOCA also supports another channel around 864Mhz. In Theory, the full power of the signal can pass through the diplexer. So full power between 5Mhz-1000Mhz will be passed from the RF feed to the Cable TV port of the diplexer. Full power between 1000Mhz - 1525Mhz will be passed to the MOCA port. So in theory, there is no loss of signal power as it goes through the diplexer.

A splitter will send the same band to both ports. It will split the power between the two legs of the splitter. So the full frequency band 5Mhz-1525Mhz is present on both legs of the split. As a result, the signal will lose power as it goes through the splitter.

Diplexers are used to separate the MOCA traffic between STB and the customer's computer. So the different STB can communicate using MOCA operating in the 864Mhz frequency band. The customer's internal LAN communications will operate in the 1000Mhz -1525Mhz band. The two network traffic won't interfere with each other.

That way a remote STB can continue to consume a IP video stream from the main STB without dropping frames while the home owner runs bit torrent/web server/play internet games/etc on his/her computer.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

-Josef

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post #22 of 121 Old 08-22-2009, 08:13 PM
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I just setup a NIM network in my home they all connected easly. It's only 3 NIMs including the main NIM. I need some help though when I connect a NIM to one specific cable outlet it causes the whole network to start giving me the blinking light(slower speed). Does anybody have any ideas on how to correct this? I did try this actual cable wall plug with only one NIM connected and it still gives me the blinking connection so I know it's definitely this outlet but unfortunately there really isn't anywhere else nearby by to plug the NIM into. I also didn't think one slow connection would cause the whole network to start blinking.

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post #23 of 121 Old 08-27-2009, 02:00 PM
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Many thanks for this very helpful forum.
Here's one for you: I live in a very old apartment building. I have a cable modem in my home office and I want to have an ethernet connection in my living room. I decide on MoCA. I connect the Netgear MCAB1001 to the cable modem and the other adapter to a coax outlet in the living room. (I don't connect an ethernet cable in the office because I have no router, just a cable modem.)
The adapter in the office seems to be working fine (no interruption in TV or internet service) and the ethernet light is on on the adapter in the living room, but it can't seem to find an IP address. I try manually setting the address to the one in the office, but this doesn't work either.
I suspect that it may be because I may have two cable drops into my apartment from my building roof. If that is the case, what can I do? Is this the only explanation, or am I missing something?
Many thanks.
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post #24 of 121 Old 08-27-2009, 03:52 PM
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Its probably not getting an IP because the cable modem only gives out 1 or two. Do you have a wireless access point with DHCP?
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post #25 of 121 Old 08-28-2009, 09:25 AM
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I think that you need to get a router. You can find one for fifteen or twenty bucks at tiger direct. You should connect the uplink port on the router to the cable modem and then connect the MCAB001 to one of the LAN ports on the router.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rdemak View Post

Many thanks for this very helpful forum.
Here's one for you: I live in a very old apartment building. I have a cable modem in my home office and I want to have an ethernet connection in my living room. I decide on MoCA. I connect the Netgear MCAB1001 to the cable modem and the other adapter to a coax outlet in the living room. (I don't connect an ethernet cable in the office because I have no router, just a cable modem.)
The adapter in the office seems to be working fine (no interruption in TV or internet service) and the ethernet light is on on the adapter in the living room, but it can't seem to find an IP address. I try manually setting the address to the one in the office, but this doesn't work either.
I suspect that it may be because I may have two cable drops into my apartment from my building roof. If that is the case, what can I do? Is this the only explanation, or am I missing something?
Many thanks.

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post #26 of 121 Old 09-01-2009, 12:49 PM
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many thanks. I'll try the router.
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post #27 of 121 Old 09-02-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

Innnnteresting. I've had issues with weak TV signals before, so this may be a solution. Where did you buy yours?

F

I'd like some info on this to. I haven't been able to find anything on the web other than Soontai. It looks like you may be able to order from them. They list this phone number 886-6-2016969 to call for pricing info.
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post #28 of 121 Old 09-02-2009, 04:23 PM
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I haven't found a source for them either...sounds a lot better than using two-way splitters.

-- Jim
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post #29 of 121 Old 09-03-2009, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmallory View Post

I haven't found a source for them either...sounds a lot better than using two-way splitters.

Hi,

I actually got some of these, which have similar frequency cut-offs and reduced my signal loss.

http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Vision.../dp/B0007GHD2K

F
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post #30 of 121 Old 09-03-2009, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

Hi,

I actually got some of these, which have similar frequency cut-offs and reduced my signal loss.

http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Vision.../dp/B0007GHD2K

F

You know, that should work. 5-860Mhz for Cable, anything above is MoCA. Might be problematic on a 1Ghz system (especially once they start deploying TV signals about 860Mhz)...but for most people it shouldn't be a problem. I may just have to try this.

-- Jim
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