Core i7, i5 & i3 LGA1156 Processors Thread: Clarkdale Supports HD Audio Bitstreaming! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3674 Old 12-20-2009, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I am basically trying to decide between an i3 and i5, a H55 and H57.

The HTPC only acts as a BR/DVD player, Netflix player, and PVR. Occasionally I will stream live TV off the Internet, but that is rare.

I do rip the BRs on the HTPC, but I do it overnight, so time is not an issue there.


Thanks for the tips!

I'm planning on just getting an i3, I think it should be plenty for HTPC uses. Of coarse video encoding will be slower but not really my issue.
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post #182 of 3674 Old 12-20-2009, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by archibael View Post

I have been playing with a Clarkdale system for a couple of months now. While discussing specifics of what my findings are is strictly verboten until after press embargo is lifted, and I'm not told ANYTHING by Marketing themselves (which is probably a good idea, since they'd presumably like the freedom to change this stuff as close to the launch as possible), based on the details leaked by various internet sources (HKEPC, etc.) it appears that when these go to market, the Pentium series will be distinguished from the i3s in terms of how much HD processing is available, while the i5 and i3 will be similar from the HD standpoint.

I can't lend credence to these sources (they could be very credible forgeries) but for HTPC purposes I would strongly suggest looking at the advertised featureset before making a purchase. If there's anything listed in the specs as "HD processing: Partial" or with an asterisk, I'd go one step up and get the model which contains all the goodies. I'm not trying to "upsell" you into an i3, as the lingo goes, I just know the HTPC audience wants all the bells and whistles available and feels betrayed if something gets left out.

Me, I'll be getting the highest clocked i5 Clarkdale available for the same reason I bought the "C" model of the Chrysler 300: you don't often need all eight cylinders of the Hemi, but you sure love them when necessity arises.

So it sounds like intel is going to be playing games with the pentium version? If intel is doing things to manipulate the market again I might just go amd. I don't appreciate buying from unethical companies.
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post #183 of 3674 Old 12-20-2009, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

So it sounds like intel is going to be playing games with the pentium version? If intel is doing things to manipulate the market again I might just go amd. I don't appreciate buying from unethical companies.

Hahaha that should rule out you buying anything that has an Intel logo
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post #184 of 3674 Old 12-20-2009, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

So it sounds like intel is going to be playing games with the pentium version? If intel is doing things to manipulate the market again I might just go amd. I don't appreciate buying from unethical companies.

Product differentiation is market manipulation? Guess you can't buy from any company that sells more than one product.
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post #185 of 3674 Old 12-20-2009, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

So it sounds like intel is going to be playing games with the pentium version? If intel is doing things to manipulate the market again I might just go amd. I don't appreciate buying from unethical companies.

If you view having different features for different brands at different price points "unethical", then I guess we're at a fundamental disagreement. I hope you find a CPU that fits your needs.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
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post #186 of 3674 Old 12-20-2009, 10:35 PM
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no hyperthreading on the desktop i5s?

the mobile versions have it though
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post #187 of 3674 Old 12-20-2009, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tsb View Post

no hyperthreading on the desktop i5s?

the mobile versions have it though

Yes, HT on all Core i3/i5/i7. It's Pentium that does not support HT. (But the performance of HT is poor in many applications.)

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post #188 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post

Hahaha that should rule out you buying anything that has an Intel logo


The last intel computer I built was a pentium 4 if that gives you any idea. I was happy with regor/radeon 4200 chipset. I was just hoping core i3 would be super energy efficient.

everytime I update my computer I have added a new amd sticker to my case.
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post #189 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by archibael View Post

If you view having different features for different brands at different price points "unethical", then I guess we're at a fundamental disagreement. I hope you find a CPU that fits your needs.

I consider intentionally disabling functions of the pentium version of the core
i3 to make sure that it wount handle htpc functions unethical, yes.
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post #190 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 12:51 AM
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PS I could care less about hyper threading as it isn't a big deal for HTPC. I'm more concerned about intel disabling features in the core i3 graphics chip.
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post #191 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

I consider intentionally disabling functions of the pentium version of the core
i3 to make sure that it wount handle htpc functions unethical, yes.

If you don't like they way a company decides prices and features in a product line, the solution is simple -- shop somewhere else.

You may not like it that you can't buy something with the features you want at the price you want, but that has nothing to do with right/wrong.

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post #192 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

I consider intentionally disabling functions of the pentium version of the core
i3 to make sure that it wount handle htpc functions unethical, yes.

It is crazy to say that any product's feature set raises any ethical issues.

Affable Nitwit
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post #193 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

I consider intentionally disabling functions of the pentium version of the core
i3 to make sure that it wount handle htpc functions unethical, yes.

"Won't handle HTPC functions", or won't provide all the HW decode or advanced deinterlacing of higher-priced (i3) versions? I'm struggling with your definitions, here.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
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post #194 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by archibael View Post

"Won't handle HTPC functions", or won't provide all the HW decode or advanced deinterlacing of higher-priced (i3) versions? I'm struggling with your definitions, here.

To him it is apparently unethical that the cheapest product in a separate lineup they produce doesn't have all of the capabilities of the higher end products. Pentiums aren't i3's, so there will be some missing features on the pentiums.
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post #195 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 12:37 PM
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As long as the specs are correct then I'm really not bothered although sometimes finding accurate spec can be a science. An example is finding what CPUs support virtualization, you can find one only to discover a few months later that it was wrong and this in on Intels site! Luckily all Core i3/5/7 processors support virtualization (at the moment) and hopefully this wont change.

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post #196 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ecidious View Post

To him it is apparently unethical that the cheapest product in a separate lineup they produce doesn't have all of the capabilities of the higher end products. Pentiums aren't i3's, so there will be some missing features on the pentiums.

It appears he may be saying that, but I don't want to assume. There may be some confusion about which processors have the full complement of HD capabilities and I'd hate for him to make a decision on which processor to buy (or to not buy) based on inaccurate data.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
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post #197 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by salacious View Post

As long as the specs are correct then I'm really not bothered although sometimes finding accurate spec can be a science. An example is finding what CPUs support virtualization, you can find one only to discover a few months later that it was wrong and this in on Intels site! Luckily all Core i3/5/7 processors support virtualization (at the moment) and hopefully this wont change.

Put it this way: if you can wait to make your purchase until the week after press embargo is lifted, I can certainly tell you which specs are accurate.

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post #198 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

I consider intentionally disabling functions of the pentium version of the core
i3 to make sure that it wount handle htpc functions unethical, yes.

Wow, that is a messed up definition. How would you like this instead?

What if only the fully featured product was available at the more premium price?

Is it unethical to give customers more choices and let them decide amongst several possible flavors of performance, features, and prices?

Is it also unethical that the cheapest Toyota Corolla doesn't come with all the luxury features and performance of a top of the line Lexus? Is it unethical that Toyota has multiple trim levels of Corollas with different price points for various features/options?

Just because you want a certain minimum level of performance/features is no reason to require everybody else to be upgraded to that same level. Different people have different needs and different budgets.

Bazinga!

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post #199 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 06:35 PM
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I think his concern is more akin to chrysler making 2 different 300s that have the same engine only they decide to put a governor on one so it can only go 45, then charging less for it. Doesn't seem that he is necessarily correct but seriously, lets quit ragging on the dude. This thread has seriously gotten derailed. Maybe we should focus more attention on sapping the insiders and experts for more info.


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post #200 of 3674 Old 12-21-2009, 10:22 PM
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I think his concern is more akin to chrysler making 2 different 300s that have the same engine only they decide to put a governor on one so it can only go 45, then charging less for it. Doesn't seem that he is necessarily correct but seriously, lets quit ragging on the dude. This thread has seriously gotten derailed. Maybe we should focus more attention on sapping the insiders and experts for more info.

Agreed. I don't care how Intel tiers their products as long as they work well for dealing with media playback, which is the thing I worry about. Hopefully Intel will get it right at launch this time. I'll be at CES this year and will probe them a bit on these points.

The last few times I talked to them they said it was up to folks like cyberlink to fully utilize hardware assist, and they couldn't ensure this would be done right on their own. If they were serious about this, they'd write the directshow filters for video acceleration and bitstreaming themselves, and public the specs so everyone could build to it, not just the idiots and cyberlink and others.

The day that Intel or ATI or Nvidia do this themselves will be the day I will know that they are serious about building products for this market.
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post #201 of 3674 Old 12-22-2009, 06:32 AM
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http://software.intel.com/sites/bill.../media-sdk.php

You've got to admit, it's a start at least.

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post #202 of 3674 Old 12-22-2009, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Agreed. I don't care how Intel tiers their products as long as they work well for dealing with media playback, which is the thing I worry about. Hopefully Intel will get it right at launch this time. I'll be at CES this year and will probe them a bit on these points.

The last few times I talked to them they said it was up to folks like cyberlink to fully utilize hardware assist, and they couldn't ensure this would be done right on their own. If they were serious about this, they'd write the directshow filters for video acceleration and bitstreaming themselves, and public the specs so everyone could build to it, not just the idiots and cyberlink and others.

The day that Intel or ATI or Nvidia do this themselves will be the day I will know that they are serious about building products for this market.

Let us know what you find out.


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post #203 of 3674 Old 12-22-2009, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by archibael View Post

http://software.intel.com/sites/bill.../media-sdk.php

You've got to admit, it's a start at least.

Fair,but no directshow support? Only MFT? How many 3rd party players support MFT? And limited image processing and scaling it looks like, at least from a cursory list.

And where is anything in the documentation about bitstreaming? If that were there (and if Directshow were supported), the FFDshow guys would really be able to take advantage of it.

Windows only too...

If you guys are serious about this, why not build directshow filters??
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post #204 of 3674 Old 12-22-2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Fair,but no directshow support? Only MFT? How many 3rd party players support MFT? And limited image processing and scaling it looks like, at least from a cursory list.

And where is anything in the documentation about bitstreaming? If that were there (and if Directshow were supported), the FFDshow guys would really be able to take advantage of it.

Windows only too...

If you guys are serious about this, why not build directshow filters??

The MediaSDK does include directshow filters for encoding (sw only) and decoding (hwa) as well as splitters and muxers.

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post #205 of 3674 Old 12-22-2009, 02:47 PM
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The MediaSDK does include directshow filters for encoding (sw only) and decoding (hwa) as well as splitters and muxers.

Where does it say that?
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post #206 of 3674 Old 12-22-2009, 04:40 PM
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True. To be fair, you actually have to download the .zip file to get the release notes... which includes information regarding the contents (the aforementioned .dlls with Dshow filters).

Not sure on bitstreaming, but since it's not out yet, difficult to predict when/if that will arrive. Certainly the 7.1 LPCM is supported via standard HD Audio protocols.

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post #207 of 3674 Old 12-22-2009, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Where does it say that?

If you dl the SDK precompiled binaries are included along with the source so you can compile it yourself (what I do).

Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post


Not sure on bitstreaming, but since it's not out yet, difficult to predict when/if that will arrive. Certainly the 7.1 LPCM is supported via standard HD Audio protocols.

I'd be surprised if it's fundamentally that different from ATI's implementation. And the PSDK for Windows 7 includes standardized GUIDs for the mediatypes in the media header files.

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post #208 of 3674 Old 12-23-2009, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Agreed. I don't care how Intel tiers their products as long as they work well for dealing with media playback, which is the thing I worry about. Hopefully Intel will get it right at launch this time. I'll be at CES this year and will probe them a bit on these points.

The last few times I talked to them they said it was up to folks like cyberlink to fully utilize hardware assist, and they couldn't ensure this would be done right on their own. If they were serious about this, they'd write the directshow filters for video acceleration and bitstreaming themselves, and public the specs so everyone could build to it, not just the idiots and cyberlink and others.

The day that Intel or ATI or Nvidia do this themselves will be the day I will know that they are serious about building products for this market.

I think my point was that the only thing intels integrated graphics is good for is multimedia and basic computing. So if intel goes out of its way to disable features that they already built into this integrated graphics its a dirty trick. The built in 7.1 bitstreaming is obviously aimed at the HTPC market as its no use to the average pc user. So in my mind disabling IGB features in the pentium version of the core i3 is solely to force HTPC guys to buy more processor then we need. As we all know, we can do all our HTPC stuff on a 2ghz core 2 dou and an appropriate graphics solution.

For my money if the clarkdale solution ends up costing too much I will just go for a core 2 based processor with a g45 board or an AMD regor with integrated radeon 4200. Or maybe the core i3 based pentium with a graphics chip from broadcom.
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post #209 of 3674 Old 12-23-2009, 08:39 AM
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Are desktops going to be availabe from majors like Dell / HP / Acer etc starting Jan 7, with core i3 / i5 processors? I'm not sure how this usually works. What happened with past introductions?
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post #210 of 3674 Old 12-23-2009, 08:48 AM
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with a graphics chip from broadcom.

I suppose you mean BCM70015?
Where could you buy MB with this chip?

HDPLEX
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