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dfordham's Avatar dfordham
11:38 AM Liked: 10
post #91 of 844
01-14-2010 | Posts: 81
Joined: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeEby View Post

Agreed...Others have gotten forced subs in WMC working, I'll be damned how?
Mike

The problem isn't just getting subs in WMC, that can be done by forcing WMC to use the FFDSHOW Video Decoder (not the FFDSHOW DXVA Video Decoder); the problem is getting subs in WMC with DXVA. I don't think that can be done currently.

By the way, Mike, thanks for your EAC3to front end. Great tool! I'm using it even as I write this.
captain_video's Avatar captain_video
11:47 AM Liked: 194
post #92 of 844
01-14-2010 | Posts: 3,770
Joined: Jan 2002
I stopped worrying about whether or not my ripped movies had forced subtitles a long time ago. I use Clown_BD to strip out the unwanted extras but I generally keep the English subtitles just to be on the safe side. They don't really take up much space and it's easy enough to turn them off if they're not needed. Since I tend to rip new releases as soon as they're out I'd be surprised if the database you guys are putting together would be of much help for my situation anyway.
aeroutaF35's Avatar aeroutaF35
12:41 PM Liked: 10
post #93 of 844
01-14-2010 | Posts: 49
Joined: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroyâ„¢ View Post

I don't use WMC for playback but it is usually the sub renderer that is the problem. With MPC-HC you either use the internal filter or an external one. Also have to allow the application to pre-load or auto load the sub while other filters do it on their own.

Whoa, i have no clue what you are talking about. I just figured after they were muxed in the subs would be burned into the movie file. So you are saying that i need an additional filter the view the subs with MPC-HC. How do you do this. Is this an option in MPC?

Then what do you mean pre-load or auto load the sub with an application? Is there a guide or instructions for this process?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeEby View Post

Agreed...Others have gotten forced subs in WMC working, I'll be damned how? If someone has a step by step I would like to know how too. I've installed vobsub...what's the step after that?
Mike

I am sure someone out there is using WMC to play MKVs with subtitles.
Killroy's Avatar Killroy
12:46 PM Liked: 64
post #94 of 844
01-14-2010 | Posts: 1,739
Joined: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroutaF35 View Post

Whoa, i have no clue what you are talking about. I just figured after they were muxed in the subs would be burned into the movie file. So you are saying that i need an additional filter the view the subs with MPC-HC. How do you do this. Is this an option in MPC?

Then what do you mean pre-load or auto load the sub with an application? Is there a guide or instructions for this process?

MPC-HC has its own sub-filter if you use their video filters. In the Playback option menu there is a box that says "Auto-load subtitles" if you check this it will play the subs without doing anything on your part. You can use ffdhsow and vobsub (Ithink that is the combo) that can also do it but like others have said, it may break DXVA.

I use MPC-HC internal filters, EVR Custom renderer (it is mandatory for it to use the internal sub filter) and that is it. Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy.
aeroutaF35's Avatar aeroutaF35
01:07 PM Liked: 10
post #95 of 844
01-14-2010 | Posts: 49
Joined: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

MPC-HC has its own sub-filter if you use their video filters. In the Playback option menu there is a box that says "Auto-load subtitles" if you check this it will play the subs without doing anything on your part. You can use ffdhsow and vobsub (Ithink that is the combo) that can also do it but like others have said, it may break DXVA.

I use MPC-HC internal filters, EVR Custom renderer (it is mandatory for it to use the internal sub filter) and that is it. Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy.

so if you go this route do you still need to mux in the sub file?
Killroy's Avatar Killroy
01:14 PM Liked: 64
post #96 of 844
01-14-2010 | Posts: 1,739
Joined: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroutaF35 View Post

so if you go this route do you still need to mux in the sub file?

If you use .srt then you can leave them separate, but the same file name as the movie, if you use idx/sub then you have to mux them in. Someone thought that you could play them externally but for the life of me I cannot figure out how.
aeroutaF35's Avatar aeroutaF35
04:33 PM Liked: 10
post #97 of 844
01-14-2010 | Posts: 49
Joined: Feb 2007
it seems all i needed to do was set "subtitle control" in the shark007 application to "DirectVobSub" now it works in WMC.... at least this file does.
LL
mapster's Avatar mapster
07:27 PM Liked: 10
post #98 of 844
01-19-2010 | Posts: 1
Joined: Feb 2007
My Life in Ruins has a few forced subs.
S2G-Unit's Avatar S2G-Unit
09:09 AM Liked: 10
post #99 of 844
02-03-2010 | Posts: 220
Joined: Apr 2005
Any updates on this list?

Can anyone tell me exactly where in Iron Man the forced subtitles are shown? I see the chapters in the list but can't find them to see if my .mkv is working properly.
Killroy's Avatar Killroy
09:21 AM Liked: 64
post #100 of 844
02-03-2010 | Posts: 1,739
Joined: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by S2G-Unit View Post

Any updates on this list?

Can anyone tell me exactly where in Iron Man the forced subtitles are shown? I see the chapters in the list but can't find them to see if my .mkv is working properly.

The scene in the cave after Tony gets captured, during the building of the rocket/first Iron Man, and the scene where the bad guys pull people out of truck and almost execute them and Iron Man first shows up.

I don't think there are any more but I may be wrong.
S2G-Unit's Avatar S2G-Unit
01:35 PM Liked: 10
post #101 of 844
02-04-2010 | Posts: 220
Joined: Apr 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

The scene in the cave after Tony gets captured, during the building of the rocket/first Iron Man, and the scene where the bad guys pull people out of truck and almost execute them and Iron Man first shows up.

I don't think there are any more but I may be wrong.

I just think the problem is my MakeMKV rip is not working because the subtitles are PGS files. MPC doesn't seem to recognize them. Anybody with ideas?
Karmyna's Avatar Karmyna
04:29 PM Liked: 10
post #102 of 844
02-04-2010 | Posts: 355
Joined: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by S2G-Unit View Post

I just think the problem is my MakeMKV rip is not working because the subtitles are PGS files. MPC doesn't seem to recognize them. Anybody with ideas?

You have to use subrip to convert them to srt file then you can merge them to your mkv
S2G-Unit's Avatar S2G-Unit
10:27 AM Liked: 10
post #103 of 844
02-17-2010 | Posts: 220
Joined: Apr 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmyna View Post

You have to use subrip to convert them to srt file then you can merge them to your mkv

Ok, so I downloaded MKVextract & chose my MKV file. Right away it says "MKExtract cannot extract this kind of file".

So what the hell? lol
Karmyna's Avatar Karmyna
01:35 PM Liked: 10
post #104 of 844
02-17-2010 | Posts: 355
Joined: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by S2G-Unit View Post

Ok, so I downloaded MKVextract & chose my MKV file. Right away it says "MKExtract cannot extract this kind of file".

So what the hell? lol

Is this MKV includes Flac audio track?

If yes then this is normal. Beleive it or not, MKVmerge can create file with flac audio, and those file will play perfectly, but it can't process them afterward because they can not open file with flac audio because the mkv standard says that flac is supposed to be encapsulate in an ogg container in an mkv container!

IN short, it can create working files that it can't process afterward.
S2G-Unit's Avatar S2G-Unit
02:43 PM Liked: 10
post #105 of 844
02-18-2010 | Posts: 220
Joined: Apr 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmyna View Post

Is this MKV includes Flac audio track?

If yes then this is normal. Beleive it or not, MKVmerge can create file with flac audio, and those file will play perfectly, but it can't process them afterward because they can not open file with flac audio because the mkv standard says that flac is supposed to be encapsulate in an ogg container in an mkv container!

IN short, it can create working files that it can't process afterward.

This happens when I select which PGS subtitles i want to work with.
woody777's Avatar woody777
09:46 AM Liked: 11
post #106 of 844
02-20-2010 | Posts: 626
Joined: Dec 2007
I've read through this thread and I'm pretty

I'm in the process of ripping my entire DVD collection to my htpc - mostly standard DVDs, just a few BDs. I'm using DVDShrink on the DVDs to rip just the main movie, main soundtrack and English subtitles. I'm doing the same thing for BD using ClownBD

I've been selecting ALL English subtitles for each rip - unless it's clearly a Director's Commentary.

So, I assume if the movie in question has forced subs, that I'm at least ripping them, right? How do you ensure that the subs are displayed correctly during playback?
mslide's Avatar mslide
11:57 AM Liked: 13
post #107 of 844
02-20-2010 | Posts: 882
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

So, I assume if the movie in question has forced subs, that I'm at least ripping them, right?

Not necessarily

There are 3 ways a DVD can have forced subs. 1) embedded in the video (e.g. Lord of the Rings) in which case you don't have to do anything special, 2) they are in a separate forced subtitle track (e.g. Star Wars Episode 4... greedo scene) and 3) they are embedded in the normal subtitle track (don't have an example that does it this way).

For 2), you would have to figure out which subtitle track it is and rip it. This involves trial and error although the forced subtitle track will usually be much smaller than the others. When using DVD Shrink, you would want to tell it to always display that track or else you would probably have to manually tell your movie playback program to display it. To do this, when you drag the main title over to the left-hand side (when re-authoring to only select the main title track), right-click on the title and select "Set Default Streams". Go to "Dispay the following subpicture stream" and pick the forced subtitle track (this is where you set the default audio track as well if you ever want to do that). If you don't do this, I'm not sure if your movie player has a way to know which track is the forced subtitle track and thus, if it can automatically play it or not... I could be completely wrong though. This is how I've been doing it for a few years now.

I don't know how to do 3) as I've yet to encounter a DVD that does it that way. Can't help with clown BD either as I use eac3to + bdsup2sub + mkvmerge.
woody777's Avatar woody777
12:31 PM Liked: 11
post #108 of 844
02-20-2010 | Posts: 626
Joined: Dec 2007
Thank you for the summary! That helps a ton!!!

So, it seems like method #1 and #2 are the most common then? Do the same 3 ways apply to Blu-ray as well?

If there is a forced sub track it will show up as a second English track, right? So I'm guessing I can cover most of my bases (with DVDs in DVDShrink at least) by setting the default stream to the smaller of the two tracks?

ClownBD is extremely similar to DVDShrink, and even incorporates eac3to + bdsup2sub like you do. There is an option to dynamically apply only forced subs to the rip. I'm about to run a test with Iron Man.
mslide's Avatar mslide
01:27 PM Liked: 13
post #109 of 844
02-20-2010 | Posts: 882
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

So, it seems like method #1 and #2 are the most common then? Do the same 3 ways apply to Blu-ray as well?

I think so, and yes. For Blu-Rays, when I use eac3to, I rip out all english subtitle tracks. When eac3to is done, it will describe each subtitle track and say if they contain any forced subtitles or not. I then run whatever subtitles that contain forced ones through bdsup2sub and tell it to only extract forced subtitles (I don't bother with the regular, non-forced subtitles in my rips). I guess clown bd does the same thing (maybe I should actually try it). I then run them all through mkvmerge.
woody777's Avatar woody777
01:31 PM Liked: 11
post #110 of 844
02-20-2010 | Posts: 626
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mslide View Post

I think so, and yes. For Blu-Rays, when I use eac3to, I rip out all english subtitle tracks. When eac3to is done, it will describe each subtitle track and say if they contain any forced subtitles or not. I then run whatever subtitles that contain forced ones through bdsup2sub and tell it to only extract forced subtitles (I don't bother with the regular, non-forced subtitles in my rips). I guess clown bd does the same thing (maybe I should actually try it). I then run them all through mkvmerge.

I think ClownBD does all of that automatically... but I'm not sure. It's definitely worth checking out though! Very easy to use program.
Nimo's Avatar Nimo
05:16 PM Liked: 13
post #111 of 844
02-20-2010 | Posts: 2,403
Joined: Oct 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

MPC-HC has its own sub-filter if you use their video filters. In the Playback option menu there is a box that says "Auto-load subtitles" if you check this it will play the subs without doing anything on your part. You can use ffdhsow and vobsub (Ithink that is the combo) that can also do it but like others have said, it may break DXVA.

I use MPC-HC internal filters, EVR Custom renderer (it is mandatory for it to use the internal sub filter) and that is it. Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy.


Yup pretty much don't have to do anything with MPC-HC these days. Nice to have subs for BD/HD playback I'm watching Mongol BD right now, zoomed and sub'd.
woody777's Avatar woody777
11:46 PM Liked: 11
post #112 of 844
02-20-2010 | Posts: 626
Joined: Dec 2007
It seems like you guys all have a good handle on this... but I figured I might as well share my method.

I like to use DVDShrink and ClownBD to strip out everything except the main movie, a single soundtrack and any forced subtitles (if applicable).

Obviously, if there's only one English subtitle track, that's not going to be forced. If there's more than one - and the second isn't labeled director's commentary or anything similar - there's a good chance the second one is forced (if it's not English SDH, which adds sound effects subtitles).

To double-check, I just play the move from the disc in TMT3 (anything except 7MC should work well). I quickly toggle through each English subtitle. Typically, if one is forced, it's going to be the last on the list and the one already selected when you start the movie.

And then just line that up in DVDShrink or ClownBD. If the forced track was the third English track in the DVD menu, then it will be the third track in both ripping softwares (so far so good at least). A nice option in DVDShrink is that it tells you the size of the track - forced tracks are usually much smaller than any other subtitle track.

In DVDShrink, you can select the default streams and tell it to play the subtitle track you selected. In ClownBD, it does it for you if the Forced Subtitles box is filled in (not checked, but solid color) in the ripping options.

EDIT: I found an easier way. I just run the disc in TMT3. If a subtitle track is playing by default, then I rip it as forced so my rip will play just like the disc.
MikeEby's Avatar MikeEby
09:51 PM Liked: 10
post #113 of 844
03-03-2010 | Posts: 2,452
Joined: Jan 2000
2012 has some forced subs.

Mike
dbone1026's Avatar dbone1026
06:00 AM Liked: 79
post #114 of 844
03-04-2010 | Posts: 11,426
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeEby View Post

2012 has some forced subs.

Mike

Just noticed that as well, audio track #9
Stryker412's Avatar Stryker412
06:36 AM Liked: 16
post #115 of 844
03-04-2010 | Posts: 4,520
Joined: Nov 2004
Thanks for keeping this updated guys, I have not been buying any movies lately.
dbone1026's Avatar dbone1026
03:48 PM Liked: 79
post #116 of 844
03-16-2010 | Posts: 11,426
Joined: Aug 2008
Taken:

Track 11 is the forced subs
S2G-Unit's Avatar S2G-Unit
08:20 PM Liked: 10
post #117 of 844
03-19-2010 | Posts: 220
Joined: Apr 2005
I just ripped the original Mummy in Mike's program & it didn't find the forced subs. Any idea why?

1. What can I do with the subtitles files it found to create a forced subtitle file?
2. Can any of you guys email me .sup or idx or whatever file for that movie for me please?
dbone1026's Avatar dbone1026
04:53 AM Liked: 79
post #118 of 844
03-20-2010 | Posts: 11,426
Joined: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by S2G-Unit View Post

I just ripped the original Mummy in Mike's program & it didn't find the forced subs. Any idea why?

1. What can I do with the subtitles files it found to create a forced subtitle file?
2. Can any of you guys email me .sup or idx or whatever file for that movie for me please?

The Mummy doesn't have forced subs, they are burned in (I just confirmed with my mkv)
dbone1026's Avatar dbone1026
12:03 PM Liked: 79
post #119 of 844
03-20-2010 | Posts: 11,426
Joined: Aug 2008
30 Days of Nights - Track 9 is the forced subs
aldo37's Avatar aldo37
10:43 PM Liked: 10
post #120 of 844
03-27-2010 | Posts: 17
Joined: Mar 2007
This is still being kept up to date correct? I could have sworn Amadeus had forced subs.. I guess not.

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