ATI Radeon HD 5800, 5700 and 5600 Series Thread: Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming! - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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post #2251 of 7498 Old 12-08-2009, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hirent View Post

Vladd posted this for people to try with 64 bit OS.
=====================================
Originally Posted by vladd View Post
Disclamer: USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Go to Start->All Programs->ffdshow64->Audio Configuration
In the "Codecs" section, set the following to "libavcodec":

* AC3
* E-AC3
* TrueHD
* MLP
* DTS

In the "Output" section check passthrough for 16 bit and the HD Audio Formats.
=====================================

I have 32 bit Win7, but I was getting frustrated trying to get it to work and was willing to try anything and everything. So while fiddling with other stuff I also went ahead and changed the above codecs to libavcodec in the settings and it worked.
Now, I'm not certain if this helped or some other setting made it work since I changed a few variables at the same time.
But you can try it and see if it works for you.


Thanks I will try that tonight. Just wondering if I check passthrough for 16bit only in ffdshow, does the audio become 16bit, both LPCM and bitstream? This is something that i do not want...
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post #2252 of 7498 Old 12-08-2009, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goemonate View Post

Thanks I will try that tonight. Just wondering if I check passthrough for 16bit only in ffdshow, does the audio become 16bit, both LPCM and bitstream? This is something that i do not want...

I don't believe that the 16/24 bit options are even a factor when it comes to the HD codecs. I get the same results if I have 16 or 24 or both checked.
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post #2253 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

LOL. I'm right on the other side of Cherokee park in St. Matthews.

Within the city, not far at all.
Buddy of mine loves the new BW3s over there.
I haven't been there yet.
Maybe some game-day, I'll buy you that drink.
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post #2254 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 06:14 AM
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Sounds good to me.
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post #2255 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

I don't believe that the 16/24 bit options are even a factor when it comes to the HD codecs. I get the same results if I have 16 or 24 or both checked.

They better not be! No, they are irrelevant for bitstreaming.
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post #2256 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

No, it's not. He's sending the actual bitstream data directly to the renderer. It's not faking it out in an LPCM wrapper. That was the very early attempts at doing this. He's got it working without all that.

I thought the current beta 49 still follows the original idea of James:

Quote:


@albain: maybe sending the bitstream as PCM through Wasapi exclusive (setting ReClock in a mode where it says "bit exact") will do the trick?

and albain himself:

Quote:


Exactly, this is my assertion.

That is:
PCM output but with the right description of the compressed data (the current version works without a special WASAPI audio renderer, however). From albain's post (Status Summary on October 5th):
  • PCM output but with the right description of the compressed data (beta 9)
  • The real compressed media type (the official microsoft ones) (beta 10)
In both beta 9 and beta 49 (actually all? beta > 10),

Media Type Structure

Sub type :

MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM
WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE :
subFormat : KSDATAFORMAT_SUBTYPE_IEC61937_DOLBY_MLP while in beta 10,

Media Type Structure

Sub type :

MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_TRUEHD
WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE :
subFormat : KSDATAFORMAT_SUBTYPE_IEC61937_DOLBY_MLP Compare:

Beta 9 (yours)

Code:
00000336        0.56825012      [2272] Media Type Structure     
00000337        0.56825012      [2272]  Format type : FORMAT_WaveFormatEx       
00000338        0.56825012      [2272]  Sub type : MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM       
00000339        0.56825012      [2272]  WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 : 
00000340        0.56825012      [2272]  dwAverageBytesPerSec : 0        
00000341        0.56825012      [2272]  dwEncodedChannelCount : 8       
00000342        0.56825012      [2272]  dwEncodedSamplesPerSec : 96000  
00000343        0.56825012      [2272]          
00000344        0.56825012      [2272]  WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE :  
00000345        0.56825012      [2272]  subFormat : KSDATAFORMAT_SUBTYPE_IEC61937_DOLBY_MLP       
00000346        0.56825012      [2272]          
00000347        0.56825012      [2272]  wSamplesPerBlock : 16   
00000348        0.56825012      [2272] Valid bits per sample : 16       
00000349        0.56825012      [2272]          
00000350        0.56825012      [2272]  WAVEFORMATEX :  
00000351        0.56825012      [2272]  wFormatTag : WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE     
00000352        0.56825012      [2272]  Channels : 8    
00000353        0.56825012      [2272] Bits per sample : 16     
00000354        0.56825012      [2272]  Samples per second : 192000     
00000355        0.56825012      [2272]  nBlockAlign : 16
Beta 10 (yours)

Code:
00000267        0.49849719      [4236] Media Type Structure     
00000268        0.49849719      [4236]  Format type : FORMAT_WaveFormatEx       
00000269        0.49849719      [4236]  Sub type : MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_TRUEHD      
00000270        0.49849719      [4236]  WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 : 
00000271        0.49849719      [4236]  dwAverageBytesPerSec : 0        
00000272        0.49849719      [4236]  dwEncodedChannelCount : 8       
00000273        0.49849719      [4236]  dwEncodedSamplesPerSec : 96000  
00000274        0.49849719      [4236]          
00000275        0.49849719      [4236]  WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE :  
00000276        0.49849719      [4236]  subFormat : KSDATAFORMAT_SUBTYPE_IEC61937_DOLBY_MLP     
00000277        0.49849719      [4236]          
00000278        0.49849719      [4236]  wSamplesPerBlock : 16   
00000279        0.49849719      [4236] Valid bits per sample : 16       
00000280        0.49849719      [4236]          
00000281        0.49849719      [4236]  WAVEFORMATEX :  
00000282        0.49849719      [4236]  wFormatTag : WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE     
00000283        0.49849719      [4236]  Channels : 8    
00000284        0.49849719      [4236] Bits per sample : 16     
00000285        0.49849719      [4236]  Samples per second : 192000     
00000286        0.49849719      [4236]  nBlockAlign : 16
Beta 49 (my own)

Code:
00000421        2.29319382      [2256] Media Type Structure     
00000422        2.29319382      [2256]  Format type : FORMAT_WaveFormatEx       
00000423        2.29319382      [2256]  Sub type : MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM       
00000424        2.29319382      [2256]          
00000425        2.29319382      [2256]  WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE :  
00000426        2.29319382      [2256]  subFormat : KSDATAFORMAT_SUBTYPE_IEC61937_DOLBY_MLP       
00000427        2.29319382      [2256]          
00000428        2.29319382      [2256]  wSamplesPerBlock : 16   
00000429        2.29319382      [2256] Valid bits per sample : 16       
00000430        2.29319382      [2256]  dwChannelMask : 255     
00000431        2.29319382      [2256]          
00000432        2.29319382      [2256]  WAVEFORMATEX :  
00000433        2.29319382      [2256]  wFormatTag : WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE     
00000434        2.29319382      [2256]  Channels : 8    
00000435        2.29319382      [2256] Bits per sample : 16     
00000436        2.29319382      [2256]  Samples per second : 192000     
00000437        2.29319382      [2256]  nBlockAlign : 16        
00000438        2.29319382      [2256]  nAvgBytesPerSec : 3072000
Update (December 8)

It looks like the latest beta supports multiple media structures (its sole purpose is to support Auzen X-Fi HomeTheaterHD). Check also my later post: PowerDVD Media Types.

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post #2257 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 07:42 AM
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But it's not using WASAPI excl mode. I'm sending it through Default DirectSound on my machine and it's working fine. I guess we'd have to ask albain for a clearer explanation. It was his original assumption that he'd need to send PCM data through WASAPI excl mode which was the basis for why we needed the MPC Audio Renderer at first. Now that is not a requirement so I don't think that's what he's doing.
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post #2258 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 07:47 AM
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Doesn't "Default DirectSound" mean whatever renderer is set as default? In any case, thought the MPC Renderer was using exclusive mode.
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post #2259 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Doesn't "Default DirectSound" mean whatever renderer is set as default? In any case, thought the MPC Renderer was using exclusive mode.

Nope. It's one of the renderers. You're thinking of "System Default" which is not what I'm talking about. I'm NOT using the MPC renderer. And yes, that IS using exclusive mode but it's not needed.
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post #2260 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Apart from the renderer issue, apparently PCM is used as a media type (as also albain himself said so)...

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post #2261 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 07:57 AM
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Absolutely possible. I really don't know that part of it very well at all. What I do know is he's mirroring what's being sent by TMT3 for Xonar and PDVD9 for ATI. So, if it's PCM, that's what they're doing, as well.
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post #2262 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

I took the EDID ADB from the Onkyo AVR, which has PAL resolutions/refresh rates, so that driver (Denon_MOD.inf) should be fine.

Well it seems like it is working (as long as I don't accidentally send my amp a bitrate/codec it can't handle ). Thanks Tulli.
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post #2263 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 08:11 AM
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Hello .

I own a XFX 5750 512 mb but i am very disappointed because it is impossible to send 24p and 50p to my projector . I have not such problem with my old 8600GT ! I tried 3 driver : 9.11 beta , 9.11 and 9.12 beta . I tried also to force these frequency in the submenu but without success .

So i think i am going to send it back to my reseller . Bye bye bitstream .
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post #2264 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

What I do know is he's mirroring what's being sent by TMT3 for Xonar and PDVD9 for ATI.

As for PDVD+HD 5xxx, that's not correct. Here is a screenshot of CyberLink Audio Renderer's properties for TrueHD bitstreaming (from PowerDVD9 itself).

TrueHD

A special GUID {6AD2A952-9979-4DC4-B6E1-6F3C3137B342} is used to describe the media sub type for all the HD audio formats (LPCM > 48kHz/16bit, TrueHD, DTS-HD) and it's wFormatTag that distinguishes a format from the other:
wFormatTag Descrtiption
49152 LPCM > 48kHz/16bit
49155 Dolby TrueHD
49156 DTS-HD Master Audio
49157 DTS-HD High Resolution Audio
FYI

DTS-HD MA

LPCM 48kHz 24bit

LPCM 48kHz 16bit

This is the normal multichannel LPCM defined by the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE structure (hence subject to modifications by Windows OS). Media subtype {DA502C6E-8095-4321-A468-1277838B3AB5} is unknown.
LL
LL
LL
LL

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post #2265 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 08:18 AM
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Pretty Happy camper for the moment, thought I'd give a so far success strory. Put together new comp with an xfx 5750 using W7 64. I didn't install the sound drivers for the motherboard, just the ATI drivers for the card. Plugged it into my Yamaha RXV-1800 and it worked without having to do anything.

Was scared to buy PDVD9 because of all the bad stories but that is why I put this comp together, to get bitstreaming. Installed and it has worked with DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD. Rambo in DTS-HD 7.1 worked as well as The Star Trek Movies refit in Dolby TrueHD.

Only Glitch right now is with PDVD9 having to choose each time to "Non-decoded" audio option... The options, for me, only come up when you mount or put a bluray movie in so hopefully there is a work around or they fix it.

Now I've got to make mediabrowser,pdvd9 and win7 work nice together. Media browser seems nice enough but I havn't figured out how to get it to mount the bluray isos yet. Hasn't worked for me. DVD's work fine but can't get PDVD9 to work through MB yet.

On a side note, just to see if it would work without jumping, I can rip a bulray movie and watch one from the HD with any problems. Processor seems to be plenty powerful. AthlonII X3 2.7ghz. Pretty nice for just a $79 processor.



N82E16813131397 MB ASUS|M4A77TD PRO AMD 770 AM3 RT 1
N82E16820231193 MEM 2Gx2|GSK F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ R 1
N82E16819103726 CPU AMD|ATH II X3 425 AM3 R 1
N82E16817341022 PSU OCZ|OCZ550FTY 550W RT 1
N82E16827106325 BLU-RAY DRIVE LITE-ON| IHOS104-06 % 1
N82E16814150448 VGA XFX|HD-575X-ZNFC HD5750 RT


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post #2266 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

And yes, that IS using exclusive mode but it's not needed.

If it's not exclusive, it's shared. I don't think you can pass through bit-perfect audio through shared mode in Vista/Win 7. Even if so, if it's using shared mode, the mixer should be being used, or at least, if you opened another program or had any Windows system sounds, the bitstream should be broken, cause it's not exclusive.
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post #2267 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I thought the current beta 49 still follows the original idea (by James "@albain: maybe sending the bitstream as PCM through Wasapi exclusive (setting ReClock in a mode where it says "bit exact") will do the trick?" and by albain "Exactly, this is my assertion"):
PCM output but with the right description of the compressed data (the current version works without a special WASAPI audio renderer).

So it's still possible that the work albain has done will work on NV products that support HDMI PCM? That seems important, since Fermi (with bitstreaming capability) won't be available to March '10 or so (if I'm up to date on renethx's technology reviews).

The way I understand it, the HDMI chip on the card may (depending on the chip) support various levels of HDMI 1.3. PCM implies the ability to pass unencrypted audio (no PAP). Like the NV 2xx series or the 9300/9400 motherboards. Now if the hardware supports it, you still need a driver to provide the api to pass data through the device. With Bitstreaming/PAP, you've probably got a lot of extra overhead, but with PCM, I would hope it is mostly a matter of getting the data in the right format.

So, if my understanding is correct, getting bitstreaming on NV products should be do-able if albain is using PCM, as the hardware supports it and the api exists (true of 4xxx amd/ati as well). If on the other hand, he is using a bitstreaming api, only 5xxx/Auzen/Xonar would work since they are the only current products with a bitstreaming api in the driver.

Sorry if I'm spreading misinformation - the only way I know to get smarter is to tell you what I think I know, and get corrected where I'm wrong!

Thanks,
Brett
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post #2268 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

If it's not exclusive, it's shared. I don't think you can pass through bit-perfect audio through shared mode in Vista/Win 7. Even if so, if it's using shared mode, the mixer should be being used, or at least, if you opened another program or had any Windows system sounds, the bitstream should be broken, cause it's not exclusive.

We could easily test that theory. But I'm pretty sure he said exclusive isn't needed for bitstreaming. Now, the issue you're talking about could be a problem for sure. I don't have anything else that makes noise on my HTPC running, so, I'd never run into a problem.
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post #2269 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

We could easily test that theory. But I'm pretty sure he said exclusive isn't needed for bitstreaming. Now, the issue you're talking about could be a problem for sure. I don't have anything else that makes noise on my HTPC running, so, I'd never run into a problem.

But even moving the volume slider should break bit-perfectness and thus bitstreaming. IIRC in XP if you left the volume slider to the max, and had the settings right, you could bitstream DD or DTS with one of those DTS or DD wav files. This does not work anymore for Vista/Win 7 though, so in a sense it's moot.
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post #2270 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 09:30 AM
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Thank You, that did the trick and now I can see both Tru-HD and DTS-Master on the Onkyo receiver. This trick saved me a lot of headache and time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varkeast View Post

I too had issues getting the third option working in PDVD9+patch with an onkyo 805, maybe something is slightly off with it's EDID or something.

anyways, i was able to get around this by using tulli's onkyo 906 EDID work around

i just unzipped that attached file, made no changes, and applied it as the monitor driver and after a reboot, that elusive 3rd option for bitstreaming was there and working like a charm (after hours of head bashing trying to figure it out)

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post #2271 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goemonate View Post

Thanks I will try that tonight. Just wondering if I check passthrough for 16bit only in ffdshow, does the audio become 16bit, both LPCM and bitstream? This is something that i do not want...


After numerous testing, I still couldn't get the bitstreaming working perfectly... 24bit TrueHD still give crappy audio... a few blinks on the AVR for DTS-MA tracks, but definitely no audio...

I have tried from beta 44 - 49... many different ver of MPC-HC... tried to tick and untick different settings on both MPC and ffdshow... re-install Windows 7... and many others that you can think of... no hope at all...

What else can I try? install the 5750 on a different computer? replace the HDMI cable? I am very frustrated now, especially when I see all the successful cases you guys have... @_@
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post #2272 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 10:08 AM
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I see that all of you are focused on bitstreaming, which is nice, of course. But how about decoding HD audio without downsampling, including 96/24 tracks and sending them as PCM to the receiver via HDMI?
Does it work on PDVD9, TMT3, MPC-HC?
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post #2273 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goemonate View Post

After numerous testing, I still couldn't get the bitstreaming working perfectly... 24bit TrueHD still give crappy audio... a few blinks on the AVR for DTS-MA tracks, but definitely no audio...

I have tried from beta 44 - 49... many different ver of MPC-HC... tried to tick and untick different settings on both MPC and ffdshow... re-install Windows 7... and many others that you can think of... no hope at all...

What else can I try? install the 5750 on a different computer? replace the HDMI cable? I am very frustrated now, especially when I see all the successful cases you guys have... @_@

See here.

If you can't even bitstream on MPC-HC then it's an EDID issue. I can confirm that. Until ATI releases their fix at the beginning of next year this issue will plague many of us, sorry to say. See the above post by smiledr for a workaround.


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(capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #2274 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 11:30 AM
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I've had the same issue as others with my Onkyo 805 so the evidence mounts it is an EDID issue with that receiver. Still, I've yet to succeed with the third option (and I've tried a few override .inf files, then reinstalled win 7 64 when I suspected too many of those might have somehow messing up the driver situation for the monitor) even though the single override .inf file currently show as installed under monitor.

I wonder if it's something with my setup. Are other 805 owners cabling straight to the AVR then out from the AVR to the projector or TV? I do have an accessory small LCD monitor using a DVI-HDMI cable adapter also outputting from the 5750. When I don't need to fire up the projector I'll pull the HDMI cable to the AVR which activates the accessory monitor and then plug the HDMI cable back in to the AVR when I use the projector. Could that be involved? I doubt it because, again, the override driver is still shown as the driver under monitor when the third PDVD9 option does not appear.

It's mysteries like this that make HTPC a challenging hobby. I'll retry installing the file noted a few posts below.
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post #2275 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by drapp1952 View Post

I've had the same issue as others with my Onkyo 805 so the evidence mounts it is an EDID issue with that receiver. Still, I've yet to succeed with the third option (and I've tried a few override .inf files, then reinstalled win 7 64 when I suspected too many of those might have somehow messing up the driver situation for the monitor) even though the single override .inf file currently show as installed under monitor.

I wonder if it's something with my setup. Are other 805 owners cabling straight to the AVR then out from the AVR to the projector or TV? I do have an accessory small LCD monitor using a DVI-HDMI cable adapter also outputting from the 5750. When I don't need to fire up the projector I'll pull the HDMI cable to the AVR which activates the accessory monitor and then plug the HDMI cable back in to the AVR when I use the projector. Could that be involved? I doubt it because, again, the override driver is still shown as the driver under monitor when the third PDVD9 option does not appear.

It's mysteries like this that make HTPC a challenging hobby. I'll retry installing the file noted a few posts below.

Would you like to try creating monitor.inf with Rivatuner?

In cases of display card to monitor handshaking problems, the old trick of connecting of an additional htmi cable from the display card to AVR works well for me.
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post #2276 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 12:04 PM
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We could easily test that theory. But I'm pretty sure he said exclusive isn't needed for bitstreaming. Now, the issue you're talking about could be a problem for sure. I don't have anything else that makes noise on my HTPC running, so, I'd never run into a problem.

While playing a trueHD track, I attempted to play a recorded TV file. Only TrueHD to the receiver. The recorded TV file failed to play. Changing volume has no effect.
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post #2277 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by drapp1952 View Post

I've had the same issue as others with my Onkyo 805 so the evidence mounts it is an EDID issue with that receiver. Still, I've yet to succeed with the third option (and I've tried a few override .inf files, then reinstalled win 7 64 when I suspected too many of those might have somehow messing up the driver situation for the monitor) even though the single override .inf file currently show as installed under monitor.

I wonder if it's something with my setup. Are other 805 owners cabling straight to the AVR then out from the AVR to the projector or TV? I do have an accessory small LCD monitor using a DVI-HDMI cable adapter also outputting from the 5750. When I don't need to fire up the projector I'll pull the HDMI cable to the AVR which activates the accessory monitor and then plug the HDMI cable back in to the AVR when I use the projector. Could that be involved? I doubt it because, again, the override driver is still shown as the driver under monitor when the third PDVD9 option does not appear.

It's mysteries like this that make HTPC a challenging hobby. I'll retry installing the file noted a few posts below.

Problem is you need to keep track of which specific monitor driver is automatically applied by Windows when plugging/unplugging HDMI display devices. If the GenericPnP monitor driver is applied, you'll keep running into EDID issues.

So try double-checking on Device Manager->Monitors. then plug the HDMI device in. If Windows assigns the GenericPnP Monitor then update the driver to the EDID override .inf you have. Reboot, and repeat the operation as needed.

As long as Windows "sees" the proper EDID override you should have no issues.


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post #2278 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 12:18 PM
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Hello .

I own a XFX 5750 512 mb but i am very disappointed because it is impossible to send 24p and 50p to my projector . I have not such problem with my old 8600GT ! I tried 3 driver : 9.11 beta , 9.11 and 9.12 beta . I tried also to force these frequency in the submenu but without success .

So i think i am going to send it back to my reseller . Bye bye bitstream .

I had a similar problem when I changed an ati 4830 with my ati 5750. The tv couldn't receive a 50hz signal through my HK avr255 receiver and in the end couldn't receive 24Hz signal after many driver re-installations. So the solution was to reinstall windows 7 ultimate 64 and everything was ok!
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post #2279 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by oldnewbie View Post

Would you like to try creating monitor.inf with Rivatuner?

In cases of display card to monitor handshaking problems, the old trick of connecting of an additional htmi cable from the display card to AVR works well for me.

Even this way, if the .inf created has an EDID incompatible with current ATI drivers for the 5xxx, you'll run into EDID issues. If so you'll need the audio data block from a driver/EDID compatible with current ATI drivers.


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post #2280 of 7498 Old 12-09-2009, 01:03 PM
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Even this way, if the .inf created has an EDID incompatible with current ATI drivers for the 5xxx, you'll run into EDID issues. If so you'll need the audio data block from a driver/EDID compatible with current ATI drivers.

Would you like to try creating monitor.inf with Rivatuner?

In cases of display card to monitor handshaking problems, the old trick of connecting of an additional htmi cable from the display card to AVR/CRT/plasma/lcd/monitor/projector works well for me.
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