ATI Radeon HD 5800, 5700 and 5600 Series Thread: Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7498 Old 09-13-2009, 01:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Dolby TrueHD Bitstreaming via ffdshow tryouts (TrueHD 7.1ch 96KHz.m2ts):

Please check
for the latest status of the development.

Dolby TrueHD Bitstreaming via PowerDVD 9 Ultra (Spider-Man 3):

DTS-HD Master Audio Bitstreaming via PowerDVD 9 Ultra (FLYBOYS):

  • Radeon HD 5750
  • Catalyst 9.11
  • Windows 7 32-bit
  • PowerDVD 9 Ultra Build 2320
  • ONKYO TX-SA606X
Table of Contents
Common Features

Some of the new features common to all the new GPUs (codenamed Evergreen) are:
  • Manufactured with TSMC 40 nm process or maybe even 32 nm for Redwood and Cedar (currently 55 nm process except for HD 4770/4750).
  • Support for DirectX 11.
  • Eyefinity multi-display technology, supporting up to three displays (one display must be DisplayPort or use an active DisplayPort to DVI/HDMI adapter). HD 5870 Eyefinity6 (a single GPU) even supports six displays (at least four of them must be DisplayPort).
Video and Audio Features (Check the slides posted at Hot Hardware.)

HD Video Playback Capabilities
  • Enhanced UVD 2.0: Hardware acceleration decode of dual 1080p HD video streams
  • Windows Aero Mode: Playback of HD videos in high quality with Windows Aero mode enabled
Video Enhancements
  • Video Gamma: Independent from Windows desktop for a superior user experience
  • Brighter Whites: Or "Blue Stretch" processing increases the blue value of white colors for brighter videos
  • Dynamic Video Range: Controls levels of black and white during playback
HDMI Audio Features
  • Bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio
HDMI Features
  • HDMI 1.3a Deep Color & x.v.Color
  • Over 1 billion colors output through HDMI: 12-bpc output, 10-bpc (4:4:4) meaningfully derived
  • Wide range of colors: Full support for wide-gamut xvYCC video signals
Bitstreaming HD Audio

Among them the greatest feature for HTPC users is the support for bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio over HDMI. Finally we don't have to buy an expensive HDMI sound card for this purpose, although you have to wait until Q1 2010 to get the mid-range to low-end cards HD 5670/5650 and HD 5550/5350. Meanwhile, HD 5770/5750, expected in October 23, 2009, may be a good compromise for the mainstream users (not ultra expensive, good 3D performance implies good video post-processing). If you are building a gaming HTPC however, a high-end GPU is the way to go (roughly 1.5 times 3D performance increase from the current GPUs).

AACS-Compliant Players Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming
  • CyberLink PowerDVD 9 Ultra (Build 2320 or later)
  • Corel WinDVD Pro 2010
How about ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater? There is no official announcement, but this will also support it soon according to various posts by ArcSoft_Jason in the thread:
Non-AACS Players Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming

What about media players? Could, for example, MPC HomeCinema or the 7MC internal player output HD audio bitstreams? A key is the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 structure introduced in the Windows 7 SDK. This extends the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE structure (introduced in Windows 2000) to describe new compressed HD audio streams such as TrueHD and DTS-HD. If the driver supports this extension, then the developer of an audio decoder (e.g. AC3Filter, ffdshow tryouts) should be able to implement HD audio bitstreaming easily. Please also read vladd's posts. Note that PAP (encrypting HD audio signals in a user-accessible bus such as the PCI Express bus) has nothing to do with HD audio bitstreaming. PAP is required only for an AACS-compliant player such as PowerDVD and TotalMedia Theater. (BTW PowerDVD uses the older WAVEFORMATEX structure to bitstream HD audio.)

An innovative way of bitstreaming HD audio is being developed by albain, an ffdshow tryouts developer (suggested also by James at SlySoft). The idea is use PCM output with right description of non-PCM data, similar to AC3/DTS in S/PDIF. This uses WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 structure for this purpose. So far the attempt is not successful yet, but apparently this is the most promising way. If you are interested, please follow the threads:

Update (December 2, 2009)

ffdshow_rev3128_20091128_dbt_bitstream_beta42 finally succeeded in bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD. For details check
Specification Table

Model Code Name Core Cl Mem Cl Mem BW Memory SP TC Max P Idle P P Conn Length Price Release
Radeon HD 5450 RV810 Pro (Cedar) 650MHz 800/400MHz 12.8/6.4GB/s DDR3/DDR2/512MB/1024MB/64-bit 80 292M 19.1W 6.4W none   $59/$49 Feb 4, '10
Radeon HD 5550 RV830 Pro 2 (Redwood Pro 2) 550MHz 800/400MHz 25.6/12.8GB/s DDR3/DDR2/512MB/1024MB/128-bit 320 627M 38W 9.7W none   $79/$85  
Radeon HD 5570 RV830 Pro (Redwood Pro) 650MHz 800/400MHz 25.6/12.8GB/s DDR3/DDR2/512MB/1024MB/128-bit 400 627M 38W 9.7W none   $79/$85 Feb 9, '10
Radeon HD 5670 RV830 XT (Redwood XT) 775MHz 1000MHz 64.0GB/s GDDR5/512MB/1024MB/128-bit 400 627M 61W 14W none   $99, $119 Jan 14, '10
Radeon HD 5750 RV840 Pro (Juniper Pro, aka Corvette) 700MHz 1150MHz 73.6GB/s GDDR5/512MB/1024MB/128-bit 720 1.04B 86W 16W 6-pin 7 1/8 in $109, $129 Oct 13 '09
Radeon HD 5770 RV840 XT (Juniper XT, aka Countach) 850MHz 1200MHz 76.8GB/s GDDR5/1024MB/128-bit 800 1.04B 108W 18W 6-pin 8 3/16 in $159 Oct 13 '09
Radeon HD 5830   800MHz 1000MHz 128.0GB/s GDDR5/1024MB/256-bit 1120 2.15B 175W 25W 6-pin+6-pin 10.5 in $239 Feb 24, '10
Radeon HD 5850 RV870 Pro (Cypress Pro) 725MHz 1000MHz 128.0GB/s GDDR5/1024MB/256-bit 1440 2.15B 151W 27W 6-pin+6-pin 9.5 in $259 Sep 23 '09
Radeon HD 5870 RV870 XT (Cypress XT) 850MHz 1200MHz 153.6GB/s GDDR5/1024MB/256-bit 1600 2.15B 188W 27W 6-pin+6-pin 10.5 in $379 Sep 23 '09
Radeon HD 5870 Eyefinity 6 Edition   850MHz 1200MHz 153.6GB/s GDDR5/2048MB/256-bit 1600 2.15B 228W 34W 6-pin+8-pin 10.5 in $479 Mar 31, '10
Radeon HD 5970 R800 (Hemlock) 725MHz 1000MHz 256.0GB/s GDDR5/2x1024MB/2x256-bit 2x1600 2x2.15B 294W 51W 6-pin+8-pin 12 in $700 Nov 18 '09

- Cl: clock
- BW: bandwidth
- SP: stream processors
- TC: transistor count
- P: power
- Conn: connectors

HD 5970

Architecture

Simply,
HD 5970 = HD 5850 + HD 5850 in a single card.

HD 5970

HD 5800 Series

Architecture

HD 5870 Eyefinity 6 Edition

HD 5870

HD 5850

HD 5830

Comparison with HD 4870

HD 5700 Series

Architecture

HD 5770

HD 5750

HD 5670

Architecture

HD 5670

HD 5500 Series

Architecture

HD 5500 Series

HD 5450

Architecture

HD 5450

The Latest Drivers
Reviews

HD 5870/5850 Reviews
HD Audio Bitstreaming

If you are interested only in HD audio bitstreaming, just read the following (the majority of reviews neglected this aspect; I see the reason why no leaked information mentioned HD audio bitstreaming ):
HD 5770/5750 Reviews
HD 5670 Reviews

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post #2 of 7498 Old 09-13-2009, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 7498 Old 09-13-2009, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 7498 Old 09-13-2009, 01:48 AM
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Anandtech made a hint about bitstreming in the azuntech review. Something about not having to wait to long before its intergrated into graphics.

Could it be that the 5000 series support PAP?
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post #6 of 7498 Old 09-17-2009, 01:08 PM
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nevermind
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post #7 of 7498 Old 09-18-2009, 11:41 AM
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Iam very excited to see the idle power consumption of the 56xx series. Propably it comes with GDDR5. I would bet that idle power consumption is around 6W.

Renexth, maybe it is worth to have a bandwidth column...
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post #8 of 7498 Old 09-22-2009, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally we will be able to get a cheap solution for bitstreaming HD audio! (You need a copy of PowerDVD 9 Ultra.) But you have to wait until Q1 2010 if you want a midrange/low-end cards (HD 5670/5650/5550/5350). The following cards replacing the current HD 4770 are expected in October 23, 2009 and are relatively inexpensive:

- HD 5750: $149
- HD 5770: $199

VR-Zone - [Rumour] ATI Radeon HD 5700 prices, release dates revealed

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post #9 of 7498 Old 09-22-2009, 11:44 PM
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Hopefully a fanless/heatsink without additional power native HDMI version will be available soon

Not like this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-346-_-Product
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post #10 of 7498 Old 09-22-2009, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Hopefully a fanless/heatsink without additional power native HDMI version will be available soon

Not like this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-346-_-Product

You have to wait till Q1 2010. Meanwhile I expect a quiet HD 5770/5750 card soon (October '09) similar to the current Sapphire HD 4770 Arctic Cooling Accelero L7 card:


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post #11 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 12:00 AM
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My question is will the driver's DirectShow audio renderer support the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?
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post #12 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

My question is will the driver's DirectShow audio renderer support the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?

If the driver suppors it, media player developers can implement HD audio bitstreaming easily, right? If so, that's an interesting question.

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post #13 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If the driver suppors it, media player developers can implement HD audio bitstreaming easily, right? If so, that's an interesting question.

Yeah, that's the plan.
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post #14 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 12:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Now MKV files with untouched TrueHD/DTS-HD MA audio tracks would be a viable option.

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post #15 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 12:44 AM
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Yup. If they implement support into the driver. The Xonar did not not support the extentions on their DirectShow renderers (I was hoping they did). I don't know if the Auzen offering does or not (my wife would kill me if I tried to spend any more money just to see).

If the new ATI cards support the extention, you won't be able to sell a used Asus or Auzentech for the cost of shipping.

ffdshow tryouts supported the extentions for a while but they have been removed since no cards worked and it couldn't be tested. I also have my own "test" filter ready. (Test meaning it doesn't actually bitstream but just checks if the renderer supports the extentions. I'll add the rest once a card supports them.)
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post #16 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 12:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

If the new ATI cards support the extention, ...

BTW how do you check if the driver's DirectShow audio renderer supports the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?

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post #17 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

BTW how do you check if the driver's DirectShow audio renderer supports the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?

I coded an audio "decoder" filter that, when connected to a TrueHD source from either the MPC demux or the ArcSoft demux, will set it's output pin for TrueHD bitstreaming according to that developer document. If it connects to the audio renderer, the renderer supports that extention. If the renderer does not connect, then the extention is not supported.

I've tested with the Xonar and, just for kicks, the 4760. Neither supported it (I didn't expect the 4670 to though).

Short of using a decoder that supports the extention, there is no real way to test.
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post #18 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 03:35 AM
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I wonder how James is planning to make Slyplayer bitstream with 4000 cards.

In any case, it would also be interesting to see how the HDMI device shows up on the Windows panel, and if WASAPI exclusive works as well (or better) as the 4000 series. Unfortunately this card is too expensive for me, I'll have to wait at least until the 5750.
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post #19 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 04:10 AM
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As long as PDVD9 (or 10 for the matter) is required to bitstream I'll stick to the TMT3/HDAV solution.


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(capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #20 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 05:38 AM
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Isn't there still a problem with ATI cards passing proper 24p? Renethx, I think your guide indicates as much. I thought NVIDIA's cards could do 24p but were inferior to ATI in SD processing? Am I reading your charts incorrectly?

Thanks,
Alex
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I'm curious to see how the 5850 will fare against 4890. Probably more powerful, but I'm interested in seeing if it will be cooler and, thus, potentially less noisy.

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post #22 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 06:44 AM
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This is great opfully other software players (arcsoft)? will offer bitstreaming over the ATI 5xxx families.

IF so then in Q1 I will get rid off my Asus slim whenthe first 5650 or 5670 that could be made fanless will show up.


This is really cool.
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post #23 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 07:06 AM
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this is great !!!!

now... lets hope slysoft SLYPLAYER will also support this card... :-)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Hopefully a fanless/heatsink without additional power native HDMI version will be available soon

Not like this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-346-_-Product

That Eyefinity version only has 1GB which is not listed on the graph above.
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Dammit, I just bought a HDAV Slim.
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Here's hoping Gigabyte makes a 5850 fanless version with the same cooler as their 4850 version.
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post #27 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You have to wait till Q1 2010. Meanwhile I expect a quiet HD 5770/5750 card soon (October '09) similar to the current Sapphire HD 4770 Arctic Cooling Accelero L7 card:


I am more a purpose driven guy. As you might know I got a Standard and Slim HDAV and it is doing exactly what I want with my native HDMI fanless 4670 these days. It will be nice to combine both together and I am sure that is what I will end up doing that. But there is no rush for me, both of them are silent and take less power then the about release 5XXX not to mention it probably got a QA cycle for us They can count on me for Q1 for sure but not like the 4850 again!
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post #28 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 08:59 AM
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i have a question about the bitstreaming. My understanding is that the older cards (4350, 4550, 4650, etc) do support bitstreaming of these sound formats (DTS-HD and TrueHD MA) but at a lower bit rate (this due to no PAP). Am I wrong about that?
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post #29 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 09:17 AM
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wow, that's awesome =). 2bad i just bought 4890 =(.

gonna have to wait til 6xxx series to upgrade =).

nextguy, previous gens do NOT support bitstream at all whatsoever. they support bitstream converted to LPCM 7.1, but only at 24-bit/48kHz because of non-PAP. there are certain discs w/24-bit 96kHz, but it's quite rare.

either way, the true bitstream is a welcome since there ain't no limitations now on LPCM either, u can now also do 24/96 on LPCM.

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post #30 of 7498 Old 09-23-2009, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextguy View Post

i have a question about the bitstreaming. My understanding is that the older cards (4350, 4550, 4650, etc) do support bitstreaming of these sound formats (DTS-HD and TrueHD MA) but at a lower bit rate (this due to no PAP). Am I wrong about that?

They're not supposed to support (at least officially) bitstreaming of THD and DTS MA at any bitrate. There was some confusion caused by some poor wording on ATI's site, but these 4000 cards are not bandwidth limited in any way. The limiting goes on in the player. These cards are capable of full 8-channel 192 kHz 24-bit audio output through HDMI (36.864 Mbps).
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