Windows 7: Do you really need CoreAVC or Haali Media Splitter? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 60 Old 09-20-2009, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

H.246, MPEG-4 AVC (Advanced Video Coding), MPEG-4 Part 10, etc... We really have a lot of names for it...

Too many names and it is getting confusing.

I'm still trying to figure out why I would need to split my media files.. what is an mkv splitter?
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post #32 of 60 Old 09-20-2009, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post

Too many names and it is getting confusing.

I'm still trying to figure out why I would need to split my media files.. what is an mkv splitter?

With any video file, you need to split the audio and video streams so that you can decode them. Splitters are usually called "demultiplexers" or "demuxes".

You can have a file source filter that reads the file and passes it to a demux filter, which then splits the audio and video streams and passes them to the respective audio and video decoders. The decoders then pass the the decoded streams to the audio and video renderers (sound card and video card).



Some filters combine the file reading and demux steps. Most mkv splitters do this.



I didn't use an mkv in the example but the principle is the same.
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post #33 of 60 Old 09-21-2009, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voranand View Post

I don't mind a tiny difference between CUDA and DXVA. If CUDA can handle every video formats I throw at it like h.264, vc1, mpeg2, interlaced video, flash video as efficiently, I might go this route and forget all the headaches about what is and what's not compatible with DXVA.

I'm still a little confused.

Does DXVA (eg. Win7 built-in decoder) have better quality than CUDA (eg. CoreAVC)?
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post #34 of 60 Old 09-21-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

I'm still a little confused.

Does DXVA (eg. Win7 built-in decoder) have better quality than CUDA (eg. CoreAVC)?

Our friend the CoreAVC developer claims it doesn't, but he hasn't returned to this thread to backup his claims so save your money for now...
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post #35 of 60 Old 10-01-2009, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

No RTM works just the same, but with higher perfomance H.264 (better).

Better? Really? Doom9 has no less then a dozen threads listing all the issues with the default Windows 7 Media Foundation H.264 decoder (and encoder) that cannot be overridden.

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post #36 of 60 Old 10-01-2009, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

What's the big difference then between CoreAVC and Microsoft's decoder? It sounds like you're saying that CoreAVC does not modify the stream (so it's basically "pixel perfect" when it gets to the television) but Microsoft's decoder is performing color correction and other things which are typically bad when you want an accurate reproduction of the movie.

No its the opposite:

- DXVA does NOT allow you to manipulate the stream
- CoreAVC w/CUDA does allow manipulation

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post #37 of 60 Old 10-01-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merzbow View Post

Our friend the CoreAVC developer claims it doesn't, but he hasn't returned to this thread to backup his claims so save your money for now...

I would never claim that... its up the the user to determine what works best for them, or if they want to have MS push what they feel is best for their needs.

You're ability of 'choice' with Media Foundation and WMP / MCE is being stripped from you.

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post #38 of 60 Old 10-01-2009, 07:21 PM
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Also on a side note for hardware acceleration... we will also be releasing OpenCL support sometime during the CoreAVC 2.x. which both ATI and NVIDIA supports.

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post #39 of 60 Old 10-01-2009, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betaboy View Post

I would never claim that... its up the the user to determine what works best for them, or if they want to have MS push what they feel is best for their needs.

Your words...

Quote:
Originally Posted by betaboy View Post

DXVA will _ALWAYS_ have lower CPU usage. Is that not good? Not really as those lower cycles come at a cost of stream manipulation (color correction, hue, brightness, cropping etc.). So lower CPU usage? or Non-Manipulation. Let the customer decide.... but DXVA is not an option for us and CoreAVC.... we will stick with CUDA.

And again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by betaboy View Post

- DXVA does NOT allow you to manipulate the stream
- CoreAVC w/CUDA does allow manipulation

You seem to be contradicting yourself. If DXVA does not allow manipulation, it should be a safer bet.
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post #40 of 60 Old 10-01-2009, 08:37 PM
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its not a contradiction by any means, pls re-read it. Also define 'safer' if you cannot properly see a video the way it was intended? Now if safer = it just works, then sure... but at a cost.

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post #41 of 60 Old 10-01-2009, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betaboy View Post

No its the opposite:

- DXVA does NOT allow you to manipulate the stream

Only true for playing videos using DirectShow players. If DXVA 2.0 is invoked by a Media Foundation player (WMP is the only one I know of today), intermediate MFTs can be inserted between the DXVA decoder and EVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by betaboy View Post

Also on a side note for hardware acceleration... we will also be releasing OpenCL support sometime during the CoreAVC 2.x. which both ATI and NVIDIA supports.

Last time I check, OpenCL doesn't have an API that will allow developers to directly access the PureVideo2/UVD ASIC circuits (CUDA allows you to do this, with PureVideo2). Does this mean that the future CoreAVC will do video decoding on pixel shaders now?
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post #42 of 60 Old 10-01-2009, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post

Only true for playing videos using DirectShow players. If DXVA 2.0 is invoked by a Media Foundation player (WMP is the only one I know of today), intermediate MFTs can be inserted between the DXVA decoder and EVR.



Last time I check, OpenCL doesn't have an API that will allow developers to directly access the PureVideo2/UVD ASIC circuits (CUDA allows you to do this, with PureVideo2). Does this mean that the future CoreAVC will do video decoding on pixel shaders now?

I was referring to directshow, but yes. On OpenCL... finite details I cannot discuss but a 'pure' OpenCL' solution atm is not possible as you were leaning towards.

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post #43 of 60 Old 10-02-2009, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranpha View Post

Only true for playing videos using DirectShow players. If DXVA 2.0 is invoked by a Media Foundation player (WMP is the only one I know of today), intermediate MFTs can be inserted between the DXVA decoder and EVR.

Actually it is even possible with Directshow + DXVA. You can always use pixel shaders to do what ever you want with the decoded video frames (color correction etc. Just see what MPC-HC offers as different pixel shaders and you'll see that everything is possible). Also rendering subtitles is possible without losing DXVA (at least MPC-HC and MediaPortal does this).
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post #44 of 60 Old 10-07-2009, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merzbow View Post

Our friend the CoreAVC developer claims it doesn't, but he hasn't returned to this thread to backup his claims so save your money for now...

merzbow, betaboy is right. I am experiencing that very same situation he's mentioned. DXVA doesn't allow for instance, madVR, which does the color conversion in 16-bit or 10-bit space with dithering, which gives smoother gradients even though the output is still 8-bit.

That's not the only problem. I have to use EVR Custom in MPC-HC because I need to use its internal subtitle renderer, so madVR is not an option anyway, but I can get close to madVR quality if I do the RGB conversion in ffdshow to the raw video stream. Guess what? DXVA is also not allowed there.

I'm looking forward to ATI support though.
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post #45 of 60 Old 11-05-2009, 08:42 AM
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Ok, I understand the basic definition of encoder/decoders/splitters but I am generally not interested in the finer details and neither are most HTPC users. Especially, future users (which I hope encompasses everyone) who are not likely to be very tech savy. I have three Nvidia Ion HTPCs (two dual core 330s and a single core 230) on a gigbit wired home group. I also have two laptops one with a very limited GPU and one with a GS45 chipset. As a precurser I have a wife (who puts up with my tinkering on a limited basis) and four kids. Of utmost importance is simplicity. I like it more complicated but my users (family) and most users (everyone I am trying to convert to the HTPC arena) like it incredibly simple and reliable. Therefore, like sofaking I am sticking with W7MC. I need one consistant inferface on all televisions that gives me access to all my content. I want to be able to buy a dvd/blu-rays, rip it to a storage device on the network (so it doesn't get destoyed by our two year old), and have it accessible everywhere. I want internet streaming content (which is why Flash 10.1 is wonderful) but that is a different story. I also want all the metadata to go with it. It is also of utmost importance that my HTPC systems be low power because they are on from 6:00 am (when I have the BIOS set to auto boot) until I shut them down at night (which doensn't happen at times). Since wattage, size, and portability (yes, I take one on long trips in the car and hook it to the vehicles a/v inputs) are important to me the NVidia Ion was the best solution. As you know the Ion just doesn't have the muscles to handle a lot, so DXVA and/or CUDA are a requirement for my HD playback. I really don't care whether I spend $15 on CoreAVC or $20 on Divx (the taxes on my stupid mobile phone cost that much and a blu-ray disc unfortunately still costs more) or whether the Media Foundation or Microsoft is evil. I and most people want a quick easy solution that works. So, the question really is who has the product that works and how can I get it to work in the fewest steps possible. I am not downloading oddly encrypted .mkv files, I just want to be able to throw a legally purchased disc in my drive and (via AnyDVD HD) be able to add it to my video content. Any suggestions?
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post #46 of 60 Old 11-05-2009, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Any new opinions on this?

Also, does Window 7 MCE use Media Foundation or DirectShow by default? (eg. should I use TopoEdit or GraphEdit to see which filters are being used?)
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post #47 of 60 Old 11-05-2009, 01:31 PM
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I believe that W7MC's default decoder is the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder which is based on the Media Foundation framework and not DirectShow framework. Hope that helps.
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post #48 of 60 Old 11-05-2009, 01:34 PM
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Okay, my friend just brought to my attention XBMC... so XBMC or Win7+Media Browser?
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post #49 of 60 Old 11-05-2009, 08:10 PM
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I am not an expert on XBMC but I tossed it out as an option because of the lack of DVR support. I record a lot of TV via my Hauppauge 2250 dual tuner and so I would never consider a solution that lacks significant DVR support. In my research MythTV was the only viable alternative and I like the user interface of W7MC much better.
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post #50 of 60 Old 11-05-2009, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDA123 View Post

I believe that W7MC's default decoder is the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder which is based on the Media Foundation framework and not DirectShow framework. Hope that helps.

Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder is a DirectShow filter (as you can see in the screenshots in this post) and can be used with any DirectShow player (e.g. MPC HomeCimena) freely. Perhaps it is used in MF framework too via Media Foundation DirectShow Wrapper (mfds.dll).
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post #51 of 60 Old 11-05-2009, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

Also, does Window 7 MCE use Media Foundation or DirectShow by default? (eg. should I use TopoEdit or GraphEdit to see which filters are being used?)

The answer depends on the container.

- mp4, aac, avi, m2ts etc.: MF
- mkv, flac etc.: DS.
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post #52 of 60 Old 11-06-2009, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Are there any programs that will tell you exactly what framework and filters are going to be used?

For example, I'd love to to open an MPG file inside this program and have it say "This will play with Media Foundation using the codec."

I've used GraphEdit which works great but it still doesn't the first part of the problem.

Anyways, another quick question...

I've installed Haali Media Splitter x64 (beta) and now everything works perfectly including AC3/DTS pass-through.

How is this working? I thought Microsoft's AC3 decoder was restricted to only being used in Microsoft applications.
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post #53 of 60 Old 11-06-2009, 05:17 AM
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There is no direct way to tell which of MF and DS is used in the 7MC internal player.

"the first part of the problem": what's this? Anyway GraphEdit just builds a DS filter graph according to the registy key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\DirectShow\\Preferr ed and the merit values of the DS filters registered in the system. This tells nothing about MF Transforms in the video playback pipeline in the 7MC player if MF is used instead. Relevant posts are:

- A Quick Guide to Playing M2TS in WMP12/7MC
- DirectShow Decoders Used in WMP12/7MC

What container with which video and audio codecs did you play with what player? It depends on the player and the filter used (which depends on the container and video/audio codecs of the file) if the playback works well or not. Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder is another DirectShow filter and you can use it with any customizable DirectShow player (which is a bad idea of course as there are much better free audio decoders).
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post #54 of 60 Old 01-14-2013, 05:33 AM
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hi

i use now latest k-lite codec - mpc hc 1.6.6.6.5.3.+ coreavc 3.0.1
with .mkv matroska work perfect.

problem is with xvid files.With this files i can not use coreavc.
So, how to force CoreAVC with xvid.
Code:
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                           : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP                    : 1
Format settings, QPel                    : No
Format settings, GMC                     : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Codec ID                                 : XVID
Codec ID/Hint                            : XviD
Duration                                 : 1h 32mn
Bit rate                                 : 929 Kbps
Width                                    : 640 pixels
Height                                   : 352 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.172
Stream size                              : 617 MiB (88%)
Writing library                          : XviD 1.1.2 (UTC 2006-11
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post #55 of 60 Old 01-15-2013, 11:25 AM
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anybody??
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post #56 of 60 Old 01-15-2013, 12:33 PM
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You raised from the dead a 3+ year old thread for a problem that wasn't really even related to the original subject. I'd start your own thread with an appropriate subject so that someone who might know something to help you might see it.
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post #57 of 60 Old 01-15-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sejmon View Post

anybody??

CoreAVC is used to decode AVC (hence the name), also known as h.264. It will not work for DivX/XviD.
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post #58 of 60 Old 01-16-2013, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitbrit View Post

CoreAVC is used to decode AVC (hence the name), also known as h.264. It will not work for DivX/XviD.

Thanks for reply
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post #59 of 60 Old 01-16-2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sejmon View Post

Thanks for reply

Since it's 2013, you should be looking into using LAV filters for everything now.
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post #60 of 60 Old 01-17-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitbrit View Post

Since it's 2013, you should be looking into using LAV filters for everything now.

i don't now why but does not work great with my setup...mpc hc+coreavc+evrcp+hali+reclock work perfect with my philips lcd via HDMI at 24Hz for 23.976 movie.
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