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HTPC Remote Manifesto (No real products, just wishful thinking)

23K views 72 replies 28 participants last post by  Mfusick 
#1 ·
I built my first HTPC in 2001. At the time, there was no good all-in-one HTPC remote available. The best you could do was get a wireless keyboard with a built-in pointing device, and use that along with a generic PC remote which would hopefully work with whatever software you were using.


Eight years later, the best you can do is get a DiNovo Mini and a Harmony universal remote, and try to get it to work with your software. Essentially the pinnacle of HTPC remote control evolution is a slightly fancier (and much more expensive) version of the two-device kludge we used nearly a decade ago. That is totally unacceptable.


Designing a single remote to control everything is not that hard. I've had a few designs bouncing around my head for a while now, and I'm putting them down here so I can stop thinking about them. Please bear in mind that I am no graphic artist. These were thrown together quickly to give a general idea of the device layouts. I didn't do any market research into the ideal button shape or label font. These are just rough templates for how all the necessary features of a HTPC remote could fit together. I am under no delusion that somebody from Logitech is going to see this and finally make a decent HTPC remote, but hey, you never know.



The following features are mandatory for all designs:
  • Have both IR and RF transmitters
  • Support IR learning
  • PC programmable, including basic macros
  • Allow key-combo assignment to any button (ctrl-z, alt-s, etc)
  • RF dongle supports generic (driverless) mouse and keyboard emulation.
  • Extended drivers (if necessary) and PC config software are multi-platform and open-source.






This design is not exactly pretty, but it is functional. Nothing fancy or complicated, just a normal remote layout with a few modifications. Buttons are double-labeled so the device can be held vertically (for regular remote functions) or horizontally (for qwerty). The red thingie in the middle can either be either a j-mouse or blackberry-style micro trackball. I know I didn't bother filling out all the button labels. You get the general idea. Since there is no complicated engineering involved in the design and it contains no particularly expensive components, there is no reason this remote could not be sold for $40 or less.






OK, I cheated a bit on this one. I started with a picture of the qwerty slider remote from Visio because it was very close to ideal. They've been making slider cell phones for at least 5 years. Why not a remote? Unfortunately Visio's remote is not universal and doesn't have mouse controls, hence the redesign. A small touchscreen allows for custom commands and macros. Like the previous design, mouse control is provided by either a j-mouse of micro trackball. Also like the previous design, I got sick of labeling buttons before I got them all. The four buttons on the left side of the qwerty section could possibly be replaced with a real pivoted d-pad, so the remote would double as a basic game controller.






When I first saw a Samsung Alias 2 with it's e-ink buttons, I figured someone would use that technology in a universal remote right away. It's been nearly a year, and still nothing. Seems like the perfect technology for a high-end remote. You could even get really fancy and use a tilt sensor to have the buttons auto-relabel when you turn the device on it's side. The best thing is that this design allows for completely customized layouts, while still giving you physical buttons to press. Anyone who has owned a fully touchscreen remote knows what a pain in the ass the lack of tactile feedback is. The display in the center is a capacitive touchscreen (320x240 res or higher), which doubles as a trackpad for mouse control. Since this would likely be an expensive device anyway, why not stick a halfway decent ARM SoC in it and run a legitimate OS like Android? It would allow for easy app creation, which would allow the remote to do things like on-the-fly playlist creation and editing, bringing up movie metadata without interrupting the film, display local TV listings, and even light web browsing. Windows Mobile or even WebOS would be options as well, but Android is free and easy to develop.




Any questions?
 
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#56 ·
I owned the Rii 2 (from the above pic with the trackpad in the middle) for 48 hours. The first day, it worked pretty well. It was responsive within 14ft of the transmitter, backlit, had a nice feel to the keys and seemed ok. The isues I found were:


1- You see that silver ring around the "e" key, under the trackpad? That opens up Internet Explorer. Why they didnt make this an enter/select key is beyond me.


2- Sometimes it would take more than 10 seconds for the remote to wake up from sleep. Pretty annoying.


3- It died on the second day, and no amount of pairing, battery-changing or forum-reading got it working again.
 
#57 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuchi78
I owned the Rii 2 (from the above pic with the trackpad in the middle) for 48 hours. The first day, it worked pretty well. It was responsive within 14ft of the transmitter, backlit, had a nice feel to the keys and seemed ok. The isues I found were:


1- You see that silver ring around the "e" key, under the trackpad? That opens up Internet Explorer. Why they didnt make this an enter/select key is beyond me.


2- Sometimes it would take more than 10 seconds for the remote to wake up from sleep. Pretty annoying.


3- It died on the second day, and no amount of pairing, battery-changing or forum-reading got it working again.
Sounds like quite the piece of hardware!
 
#59 ·
Ok, so the price is a bit steep at $79, but it'll eventually come down. Lenovo seems to have heard the gripes about their handheld keyboard/trackball combo and made some improvements:

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c...E300F333&tab=0


This model (5902) moves the mouse buttons to a silver rim at the bottom of the keyboard, and FINALLY has a backlight!! Not sure if they did something about the sh*tty reception when you're more than 10 feet away, but here's hoping
 
#60 ·
FYI - Other changes include the omission of the orange "My Computer" key on the upper left (a media center or programmable button would have been nice), the addition of a "close program" key on the upper right, and some kind of touch-sensitive area below the trackball for scrolling. There's also a bump on the down arrow key, which is much better than the current version's key, which has nothing to indicate where the arrow pad starts, therefore forcing you to look down at the thing from time to time.


UPDATE - Just ordered it with coupon code USPC11AG36678. The total was $47.99 ($32 off) with free 3-day shipping. I'll let you know if it rocks or blows.


UPDATE (8-26-11) - The a-holes at Lenovo cancelled my order without an explanation. Judging by the limited info on this product, I'm not sure it was ready for prime time.
 
#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst /forum/post/20851913


^ Did you ever end-up looking and pulse-eight's nyxboard like I suggested ?


Cheers

Nope. Unfortunately, a backlight is a major requirement. My current remote has none and it's a PITA having to turn on the lights in the middle of a movie just to find a button. The Nyxboard's mouse is also a d-pad affair, which I've always found to never work as an effective mouse replacement. A trackpad, trackball, or optical pad would be needed. Thanks, though.
 
#64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 /forum/post/18254836


Have to admit, this one and the Motorola Nyxboard look great. I like the track pad and back light on the one above.


I own a BoxeeBox and it's a terrific device. For just streaming movies and TV from a PC it's the best device I've ever used. The remote works from over 100 feet which is wild. I also love using it to skip tracks while hosting house parties.


Getting a BoxeeBox remote for my HTPC is very tempting but there will always be limitations. My AVR is in a closet at the back of my theater and I'm addicted to bitstreaming so volume control is only possible through the receiver.


None of these remotes can deal with that.
 
#65 ·
So here we are, over a year later, and still looking for the same thing. It baffles the mind that all the pieces are there to make the perfect HTPC remote, and not 1 company has successfully implemented them. I figured I'd review the ones I've used since this thread began and offer my input.


Lenovo N5902 Keyboard/Mouse combo

If you're ok with having a separate remote for tv viewing and one for keyboard/mouse input, the N5902 is by far the best option I've tested. After having my order cancelled initially, they finally started carrying it and I'm relatively impressed. Lenovo made it a point to address some of the gripes with the original N5901's design, adding a backlight to the keyboard and changing the round trackball to an optical one that can be depressed to left-click (feels like a Blackberry optical trackball). Although the range is just ok (sometimes key presses don't register), the mouse control is much more precise than the ball, trackpad or d-pad options I've used. The touch sensitive scroll area is also pretty handy. My only issue with this remote is that it won't work alone. You'll still want something to control your PC eyes-off, single handedly and that can control certain aspects of your TV (like power or volume). This thing only functions as a mouse/keyboard, but it does it well.


Rii I13 wireless HTPC remote/mouse/keyboard
http://www.amazon.com/Rii-Wireless-Multifunction-Keyboard-Interface/dp/B00BQU9NVK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369843645&sr=8-1&keywords=rii+htpc

This was a recent purchase. Aside from the frustrating exclusion of a backlight (seriously??), it seemed to check all the right boxes. It includes a gyroscopic mouse (which controls the mouse cursor much like a Wii-mote), a QWERTY keyboard, and a learning (yay) remote on the other side. I purchased a white model to compensate for the lack of a backlight, since I figured it would be easier to see. It also works as a speaker/mic, but don't get too excited. Here are my impressions:

Keyboard - It does the job. You won't be typing a document with it, but it works well enough for entering web addresses and quick searches. That's all you can expect from a device like this, and this aspect of the remote won't disappoint.

Mouse - It has 3 drift/speed settings. Anything above "low" is too erratic to control with any respectable degree of precision, but the lowest setting works fine. I would have preferred the precise control of an optical trackpad, but this thing is usable.

Remote - Here's where it gets a bit disappointing. I was looking forward to the remote's learning functions, but it's cheaply made and has a few operational headaches. The entire remote side of the device needs to be programmed key-by-key, and operates solely on IR. This means you'll need an IR receiver for your PC and will have to spend a few minutes programming each button on the remote's face. I didn't mind programming the buttons (since I could also assign certain ones to control different devices, like volume for my receiver, power for my TV and the rest to my PC). However, the remote is a bit flaky, particularly the directional arrows. Pressing up or down to fast in succession will register as if you pressed the button 20 times, flying through pages in the guide far too quickly. It's also heavily reliant on direct line-of-sight, so pointing it right at the receiver will be necessary. The button layout could be better, but it's workable.

Integrated speaker/microphone - This is perhaps the only truly disappointing feature in this remote. I don't need it, so how craptastic it is will have no effect on my opinion of the remote. However, if you are interested in this feature, look elsewhere. The sound coming out of the remote is not only tiny, but reminiscent of the white noise you hear when a ghost is trying to communicate with you through an electronic device. You won't understand anything coming out of the speaker. As far as the mic, I haven't tested it. The speaker sound quality was enough to get me to overlook the remote's audio features entirely.


The Unicorn - Logitech Harmony 800 QWERTY
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1398964/logitech-harmony-800-qwerty

This remote seems absolutely perfect, if it weren't for the problem that it doesn't seem to exist. It has a slide-out qwerty keyboard, a full learning IR remote, and a touchscreen that can double as a trackpad. It's also backlit (!). The only problem it has is that it was announced over a year ago and has not come to fruition. Instead, Logitech released the useless Harmony Touch remote. I've signed up with several sites that claim to have this on backorder, but none of them actually deliver. If anyone hears of a seller that can deliver this remote, please let me know.
 
#66 ·
Not to necro an old thread...but I'm gonna necro this thread...


Caveat: I've only been searching for my dream remote for about 2 days, so if someone can point me to it...will love you long time.


Where are these devices put forward by the OP? What are manufacturers doing?


All the remotes I see are basically crap. What a HT setup needs is one remote to rule them all, and it's just not out there.

http://pdfs.icecat.biz/pdf/33475765-5018.pdf is the best I have been able to find...and it doesn't exist.


Surely some of these manufacturers understand that:


a) We want buttons, INCLUDING a numpad. Not many people want to look at their remote while they enter commands on a touchscreen

b) we need a keyboard

c) Activity based icons and mouse functionality on a touchscreen are the only "good" uses for a touchscreen

d) RF/IR/Bluetooth are highly desirable in a modern HT remote


I'll pay $300 for that remote.


What I DON"T want is a qwerty touchpad/air mouse remote to add to the collection.


Oh, and HI! First time poster
 
#67 ·
Welcome. That would certainly be the holy grail for most of us in this forum. But sadly, I do not think such a remote will ever exist because of the tiny market (mostly HTPC users). The best we can do today is a good universal remote for most controls plus a real keyboard/mouse or app for the rest. That combo does everything you need and does it all without the compromises or expense of an all-in-one solution.
 
#68 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej  /t/1196532/htpc-remote-manifesto-no-real-products-just-wishful-thinking/60#post_23661155


Welcome. That would certainly be the holy grail for most of us in this forum. But sadly, I do not think such a remote will ever exist because of the tiny market (mostly HTPC users). The best we can do today is a good universal remote for most controls plus a real keyboard/mouse or app for the rest. That combo does everything you need and does it all without the compromises or expense of an all-in-one solution.

My wife would love that remote for the Roku and the Samsung TV in the bedroom to make searching movies easier than virtual keyboards. I think the market is there, but logitech simply doesn't want a large line of remotes anymore.
 
#70 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej  /t/1196532/htpc-remote-manifesto-no-real-products-just-wishful-thinking/60#post_23661155


Welcome. That would certainly be the holy grail for most of us in this forum. But sadly, I do not think such a remote will ever exist because of the tiny market (mostly HTPC users). The best we can do today is a good universal remote for most controls plus a real keyboard/mouse or app for the rest. That combo does everything you need and does it all without the compromises or expense of an all-in-one solution.

Hi madavej, thanks for the reply, and for the welcome.


I know I'm new, but I think I'll have to respectfully disagree with you here. A simple google of "HTPC remote" in Google images will show just what a plethora of remote options are out there. Unfortunately, manufacturers seem to simply be missing the mark in a good number of instances (from my perspective at least).


I have sort of resigned myself to compromising on a two remote solution, Google and I are still goign to keep on eye out though



A touchscreen phone can be had for $50, and that has a lot more power and functionality than I would ever require in a HTPC remote. Essentially a Blackberry-esque touch screen/qwerty device with Tivo buttons on the back is the design....maybe some programming and super glue can resolve this!
 
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