ATI Radeon HD 57xx Audio Glithces / DPC Latency Problems & More - Test - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 63 Old 02-05-2010, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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As some of you already know, The 57XX series is plagued with problems.


For all those Experiencing Audio Clicks etc, Download This : http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml
Please test your DPC latencies playing a video in SW mode, NOT using DXVA, & MAKE SURE your VIDEO WINDOW IS ON TOP,
Like So, Have a look, this is on XP, but many reported problems on windows 7 as well.

*******
AVS Users: PLEASE RUN THE TEST DESCRIBED IN THE FIRST POST & POST YOUR FINDINGS IF YOU GET SIMILAR PROBLEMS

Note: You MUST use Software non DXVA playback & have the VIDEO WINDOW ON TOP when you test the DPC latency,
otherwise you will not get a true (ie as horrible) DPC reading !


I have been looking into these cards for a while now.
I am very disappointed with almost every PC review site I have read,
& it seems like almost no one is professional & unbiased enough to stop marketing these cards & start testing them.


The related problems I have found are NOT all the same, Here are a few MAJOR problems, but not all:

Problem 1:

ATI Powerplay changing the clock rates, causing this problem.
With Some Older 5XXX BIOSES that did not alter the clock rates,
Windows 7 did not have the DPC & Audio Clicks issues , while XP Still Did.

Problem 2:
Audio glitches Happen even when PowerPlay Disabled, when Playing in Software Mode, I think Mainly on XP with VMR9, Even with Older non PowerPlay Bioses,
& with ATI Overdrive Forcing stable clocks

Problem 3:
2D performance plain SUCKS on these cards, & horrible on Windows 7/Vista .
This may/ not mean much to HTPC users, but everything to a regular PC user.

If You do any sort of regular graphics (ignore the IF..)
its all 2D ..

After looking hopelessly for ANY solution or even recognition to this problem from professionals, so I can share it, I found there is only one Site with staff professional & unbiased enough to Note the problem.

Not only did they notice it, they published 2 giant articles about it.

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...mE80SocVJvS1PA

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...D41tSF7uYG3fwg


Problem 4:
DXVA Playback can lead to anything from Green/Pink Bars screen corruption, to total system lockups, depending on content played.

Some test files that may cause problems:

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1907430/t..._high_l5.1.mp4

http://www.bigandfree.com/12026035

http://www.bigandfree.com/12025128

more test files & more links & info can be found in http://nunnally.ahmygoddess.net/watc...os-using-dxva/

If these are not enough for you, There are more issues here
http://forums.amd.com/game/messagevi...&enterthread=y

I am wondering how many of you have this problem but not aware of it yet, please post your findings.

Have a Look in this screen capture on how to reproduce:





*******

UPDATE:

It seems like Gigabyte decided they stand behind the ATI hardware, Despite their own findings - Must Read - Read from the BOTTOM Up


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post #2 of 63 Old 02-05-2010, 10:13 PM
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What happens when you use a different audio device? I'm not familiar with Ati but I do know drivers affect DPC latency. Is it possible to use different HDMI audio(older?) drivers?
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post #3 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 12:37 AM
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Try the Realtek HDMI drivers.

But my question would be why even bother with a 5xxx series on XP?? You don't get HD audio bitstreaming with XP so you may as well use the 4xxx series.
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post #4 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Try the Realtek HDMI drivers.

But my question would be why even bother with a 5xxx series on XP?? You don't get HD audio bitstreaming with XP so you may as well use the 4xxx series.

I was wondering the same thing.. I haven't had any audio issues on Win7...

ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
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post #5 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the 5xxx series was more future proof for me, & gave me better UVD peformance/formats then any 4xxx series (& I did try all others as well),
,DXVA worked better for me with the 5xxx.

Using a different audio device does not help.
The Realtek HDMI makes no difference, still the same problems.

I have noticed the 5xxx problem reports ,where many reported they get the audio problems & some pointed at Ati powerplay, but in this case this is not the issue, I did check for it.

I have done XP reinstalls just to check for that issue, but it is always there on XP, regardless of driver version (tried many).

Although I read many reported this problem on Windows 7,
I have only encountered this specific problem on XP.

(The miserable 2d performance problem of these cards exists both on XP & windows 7, but that is a whole new can of worms.. nm).

Did/Can anyone Check his DPC performance with a 5XXX on XP when playing a video in SW mode, NOT using DXVA ?
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post #6 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 04:32 PM
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You try http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownloa...fessional/Home

The UAA Microsoft driver?

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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post #7 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply.
the UAA driver is needed for SP2 only right ? cause This is SP3.
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post #8 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 05:01 PM
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With both the Realtek 2.39 HDMI and ATI HDMI drivers I can not get AC3 to stream properly over HDMI for media file playback. With both ffdshow and AC3Filter I get audio dropouts. If I open a menu and do "something", like scrolling, while playing, the audio glitches out continuously. I noticed clicks while playing PCM over HDMI also, but thought they were in my source material.

This is with my new 5670 card, so I think the problem applies to both 56xx and 57xx cards.
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post #9 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the reply, can you please do the DPC test suggested earlier, I bet it has nothing to do with your specific card, or setup ..

Actually I can verify the problems exists in both the 5770 & 5750 I have,
so now that you verified the 5670, I guess it is pretty safe to assume all the 5XXX series is plagued with this problem.
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post #10 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 06:02 PM
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Indeed, once I turned off h/w acceleration in PowerDVD 9, it started glitching horribly over HDMI, and the DPC latency checker shows bad problems.

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post #11 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 06:09 PM
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No DPC or glitching problems over SPDIF whatsoever!
Pretty disappointing HDMI performance.
Now I have to switch audio device to HDMI to watch a Blu-Ray with HD bitstreaming, and back to SPDIF for all other content
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post #12 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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There you go .... absolutely horrible DPC spikes you get there,
The card is useless in this state.
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post #13 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 08:23 PM
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I found out about ATI PowerPlay and managed to disable it on my card. Now I can play without continuous glitches, but I have not yet tested it extensively. I am running Win7, using the EVR renderer.
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post #14 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I am not sure I understand.


Your DPC screenshot was taken After you disabled powerplay ?
Or you disabled powerplay right after we had this chat ?
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post #15 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 10:12 PM
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DPC screenshot was with PowerPlay running, before I knew about the PowerPlay bug.
With PowerPlay disabled, the DPC latency app showed nice low values.
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post #16 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh OK, that makes sense now, should be OK on WIN7 with EVR,
Try testing more software playback with VMR9 &/OR XP if possible.
as for 2D behavior, Performance will still suck on 7 regardless of the powerplay fix.
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post #17 of 63 Old 02-06-2010, 11:27 PM
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What do you mean about horrible 2D performance?
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post #18 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

What do you mean about horrible 2D performance?

2d problems

Quote:


Update (1/26/2010): With preliminary research into our 2D performance analysis, AMD reports back with the following:

Tom's Hardware has tripped over a workload area (2D lines, etc.) that we have not optimized yet.
Until this new benchmark, we have not seen any other applications that are bottlenecked by this path, and hence have not focused on it until now.
Our initial analysis has shown that we have no hardware limitations in this area.
We now have our driver team engaged to optimize this path and will release a new driver to address this workload as soon as possible.
We have already found an easy way of increasing our performance greatly, and are now going to try and schedule this in a future Catalyst (need to code in production, validate, ensure it doesn't break anything else, etc.).

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post #19 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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andy o, I will edit my first post & include the links I posted later.
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post #20 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 06:32 AM
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I'm reading hellokeith's link because the ones you posted were a little heavy cause of the translation.

BTW, the XP problem seems to be a problem with the OS, and not with just these cards.
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post #21 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

I'm reading hellokeith's link because the ones you posted were a little heavy cause of the translation.

BTW, the XP problem seems to be a problem with the OS, and not with just these cards.

? , please elaborate.
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post #22 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 06:50 AM
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From this page:

Quote:


Say what you want about Windows XP, but the hardware acceleration of GDI works flawlessly to this very day, and is more than enough for many types of applications. What XP cannot do, however, is convey 2.5D layer techniques onto modern 3D graphics cards.

They mention a problem with 780G, but don't mention the 5000 cards in particular.
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post #23 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Huh ?
Were we reading the same articles ? you seem to be a touch on the forgiving side of the fence .
There is a reason I posted the links I did, as they are the only ones available to describe the problems in details, you might wanna read them.

I can tell you I own many cards, & have been a pro for many years, & I have never seen the software video playback problems I posted in the first post with extreme DPC on any cards,
including a GT220 I recently had. in fact even the 780G & 785G do not have any of these problems regarding software video playback.

These problems are definitely unique to the 5XXX series, No way to dance around these issues. sorry.
yet Another problem is that with the 5XXX, regardless of drivers, no software can control the Overlay Mixers Color Controls.
With Nvidia for example, I have None of the above problems. (although I do have many gripes about video playback features, but that's out of this discussion).

Fact is, currently the problems are just too many for anyone to consider these products seriously, & I advise anyone considering them to take a long hard look at the issues,
berfore they decide to buy, & ignore almost everything they read in the fanboy review sites.
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post #24 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 07:40 AM
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I was talking about the Tom's hardware article. I read the one linked by hellokeith because it's the English Tom's Hardware version, but it has the same content. I can't read such a long article all google-translated. The other article you linked seems to be a game issue, which I don't know much about (and it's not super relevant in this forum especially with cards like 5670 and lower), but even then it doesn't seem like such a big problem. There's always such problems with games with all cards/drivers. Nvidia also fixes a lot of bugs with games with their drivers.

The DPC latency problem is something else, which can be worked around satisfactorily in Windows 7 (and I presume Vista). I don't know if XP also works, but if you can disable Powerplay there, then it should work as well.

I'm not sure I'm being overly forgiving here. I think you're being too harsh. The 2D problem does seem to be an issue, but ATI has responded that they're working on it, and most of us (in the HTPC forum) aren't using CAD or CorelDraw, and even if we did, it's no problem whatsoever to disable desktop composition just for one or two programs. In fact, we're used to PowerDVD and WinDVD disabling Aero all the time!
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post #25 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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in that case I guess our tolerance bar for what we as consumers consider acceptable products malnfunctions is set miles apart.

Paying for a product with so many issues is out range even in the forgiving buggy world of PC hardware.

The XP problems cannot be overlooked as it is still the dominating OS,
nothing we can do about that.

Not many users have yours or my technical background, & even less have the time to invest to get the products they paid for Work as advertised,
not to mention prevent them bringing their entire system to it's knees.

You should not even be asked to accept the fate of constant aero en/dis-abling
which for some unknown reason you seem pretty happy to do.

Would you agree to cycle the power of Your TV every time you want to switch a channel ? I assume your answer will be no (making a risky bet here).

We as users should never accept these kind of products, as we never accept them in any other industry.
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post #26 of 63 Old 02-07-2010, 11:58 AM
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Losing connection is a crappy problem, but it's one that I don't have, and I haven't heard too many people complain about it (though some have). I'm not sure how common it is, but I think it's the same with previous ATI cards.
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post #27 of 63 Old 02-08-2010, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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@ all,

please tell me if the following is a problem you have noticed on your setup.

When playing a 1080i MPEG2 or 1080i H264 File in DXVA Mode with hardware De-interlacing, Any sharpening over 15 causes major video breakups/arifacts/stutter.
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post #28 of 63 Old 02-08-2010, 07:21 PM
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Which player(s) are you using?
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post #29 of 63 Old 02-08-2010, 07:45 PM
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I just tested some bluray m2ts files from the Dolby 2008 demo disc (1080i H.264 TrueHD) and there's no problem with edge enhancement even up to 100.
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post #30 of 63 Old 02-08-2010, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks andy, What DXVA Filter were you using ?
Maybe its another XP only bug, will check on win 7 as well.
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