EDID Overrides to solve bitstreaming issues for ATI 5xxx's - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4081 Old 02-24-2010, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BigZAJ View Post

Driver Provider:
ATI Technologies, Inc.

Driver Date:
2/2/2010

Driver Version:
8.702.0.0

Oops that is the video driver, I reinstalled 10.2 but it did not replace the realtek driver. I manually removed it and re-installed the ATI audio driver, it is now working.
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post #272 of 4081 Old 02-24-2010, 10:25 PM
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Ah, I was starting to think I had the wrong driver loaded.
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post #273 of 4081 Old 02-24-2010, 10:45 PM
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Probably a stupid question but what does the display device have to do with the AVR? Maybe I am misunderstanding what this mod is supposed to accomplish.

I am getting an 5450 tomorrow and will be trying to play truehd movies through HDMI to my Denon 2310CI. What does it matter what display you have?

Edit: Video will be output through my 4870x2 and audio through the 5450 btw.
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post #274 of 4081 Old 02-24-2010, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

Probably a stupid question but what does the display device have to do with the AVR? Maybe I am misunderstanding what this mod is supposed to accomplish.

I am getting an 5450 tomorrow and will be trying to play truehd movies through HDMI to my Denon 2310CI. What does it matter what display you have?

Edit: Video will be output through my 4870x2 and audio through the 5450 btw.

The mod is to fix an issue where Windows is not able to tell that your AVR can decode HD audio so you can bitstream. The issue is that the EDID contains data about the video capabilities of your monitor as well as the audio capabilites.

The computer will "see" the AVR as a monitor with really good audio support since HDMI audio is piggybacked onto a video carrier signal. When you have a TV/Monitor connected to the AVR, the video support information of the TV gets passed and the AVR injects the audio support information. So the mods for various TVs have been to preserve the modes and timing information for those TVs.

Since you are connecting your TV to your 4870x2 and not to the AVR, you don't need to worry about the video timings and any Denon combination would work for you. All you will care about is the audio portion of the EDID. Your Denon will show up as a second monitor on your computer but you can just ignore it (ie: don't clone or extend the desktop).

You should attempt to bitstream without an override first to determine if you really need one (most likely you do though).
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post #275 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post
@Beamer

Can you capture and post your AVP A1 EDID? It is most likely that the last firmware update fixed the "192Khz/TrueHD non supported" issue with DENONs.
Tulli: Here you go. I can see that you already have an updated sample but mine is a European model and uses a different firmware.

BTW I tested that I could play both formats before capturing

 

Denon AVP A1HD-A Europe.zip 1.26953125k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip Denon AVP A1HD-A Europe.zip (1.3 KB, 7 views)
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post #276 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 04:42 AM
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I need help too

Hope i did the Getedid thing right.

 

Denon2310-Pio5080.zip 0.6484375k . file

 

GetEDID.zip 0.4970703125k . file
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File Type: zip GetEDID.zip (509 Bytes, 9 views)
File Type: zip Denon2310-Pio5080.zip (664 Bytes, 6 views)
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post #277 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

Tulli: Here you go. I can see that you already have an updated sample but mine is a European model and uses a different firmware.

BTW I tested that I could play both formats before capturing

Thx Beamer. You're not gonna believe this but that capture EDID is the override!!! The audio block is exactly the same I've been using for these mods.

Can you capture the real-time EDID again with latest Moninfo. Trapo got it right on the the other thread using moninfo and I'm begiining to suspect that getEDID is not capturing the real time EDID. But let's wait for your moninfo capture to jump to conclusions.

EDID Overrides (capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #278 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 06:25 AM
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Tulli (and others)-

I hoped it wouldn't come to this, but I just cannot get my new 5450 to work. When I look under the "supported formats" tab I see only the basic three windows options. DTS, Dolby, and WMA; none of the ones I want to see!

So here's my setup:

HTPC with PowerColor 5450 -> HDMI 1.3a cable from monoprice -> DENON3310CI -> HDMI to DVI cable from monoprice -> SONY KF50XBR800 720p rear projection HDTV

This TV is rather old and I'm wondering if it is the source of all these problems as it has been rather poor in the past in regard to timings and HDCP on some older NVIDIA cards.

I've done multiple installs and uninstalls of 10.2 Catalyst and Realtek HDMI 2.42 mixed with driversweeps in safe mode. The current state is a fresh install of Vista SP2 with Catalyst 10.2 and pretty much nothing else but windows updates installed. Still no go.

I have two guesses as to the problem:
1 - don't know if this makes sense, but could that HDMI->DVI cable be a problem? Does it make sense to have a HDMI1.3a HDMI->DVI cable? I don't think so, but...
2 - That Sony's EDID is blocking almost everything from getting past along.

Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

DENON3310 to SonyKF50XBR800.zip 2.298828125k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip DENON3310 to SonyKF50XBR800.zip (2.3 KB, 9 views)
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post #279 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theisw View Post
I need help too

Hope i did the Getedid thing right.
Your mod.

 

Pioneer PDP 5080XA - DENON 2310_MOD.zip 1.2587890625k . file
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File Type: zip Pioneer PDP 5080XA - DENON 2310_MOD.zip (1.3 KB, 6 views)

EDID Overrides (capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #280 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Thx Beamer. You're not gonna believe this but that capture EDID is the override!!! The audio block is exactly the same I've been using for these mods.

Can you capture the real-time EDID again with latest Moninfo. Trapo got it right on the the other thread using moninfo and I'm begiining to suspect that getEDID is not capturing the real time EDID. But let's wait for your moninfo capture to jump to conclusions.

OMG This is getting surreal

Will version 2.4 of asset manager work with the 5000 series?
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post #281 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcell View Post

Agreed. Just was curious if a further mod was necessary on those rare files with 192Khz. In my line of work, "working" versus "working properly" can be two entirely different matters .

Understood, but, with bitstreaming it's pretty binary. It either works or it doesn't.
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post #282 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

OMG This is getting surreal

Will version 2.4 of asset manager work with the 5000 series?

Yup. Version 2.44.0.825 works fine here.

EDID Overrides (capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #283 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jplant View Post
Tulli (and others)-

I hoped it wouldn't come to this, but I just cannot get my new 5450 to work. When I look under the "supported formats" tab I see only the basic three windows options. DTS, Dolby, and WMA; none of the ones I want to see!

So here's my setup:

HTPC with PowerColor 5450 -> HDMI 1.3a cable from monoprice -> DENON3310CI -> HDMI to DVI cable from monoprice -> SONY KF50XBR800 720p rear projection HDTV

This TV is rather old and I'm wondering if it is the source of all these problems as it has been rather poor in the past in regard to timings and HDCP on some older NVIDIA cards.

I've done multiple installs and uninstalls of 10.2 Catalyst and Realtek HDMI 2.42 mixed with driversweeps in safe mode. The current state is a fresh install of Vista SP2 with Catalyst 10.2 and pretty much nothing else but windows updates installed. Still no go.

I have two guesses as to the problem:
1 - don't know if this makes sense, but could that HDMI->DVI cable be a problem? Does it make sense to have a HDMI1.3a HDMI->DVI cable? I don't think so, but...
2 - That Sony's EDID is blocking almost everything from getting past along.

Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.
HDCP could be an issue indeed, for which AnyDVDHD is the cure.

I don't think the cable is any problem.

I attach the mod anyway.

 

SONY KF50XBR800 - DENON 3310_MOD.zip 1.201171875k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip SONY KF50XBR800 - DENON 3310_MOD.zip (1.2 KB, 5 views)

EDID Overrides (capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #284 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Samuri, IT WORKS!!!

Just replaced one byte in my DENON 988 EDID to enable 192khz support for TrueHD and that DID IT!

Thanks a bunch to rasmusb and to you for pinpointing the EXACT problem.

So, ladies and gents, mystery solved: ATI is INNOCENT!, or too picky?, for taking too literally (is that a bug?) a FAULTY AVR EDID value.

Now, what about other failing AVRs? Took a look at the failing ONKYO TX-SR875 EDID, and sure enough TrueHD/192Khz is marked as not supported there.

Can't find a couple of SONY AVR EDIDs that I had but this is the issue. OTH Checked one Yamaha and Pioneer AVRs EDID and TrueHD/192khz is marked supported in both.

Ehhh...ok, what does this mean? Will we need to continue to use the existing override? A new override is needed/better? Different workaround? Still, all the set-top boxes work fine, so I vote that ATI is way too picky...

Thanks for your help
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post #285 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Ehhh...ok, what does this mean? Will we need to continue to use the existing override? A new override is needed/better? Different workaround? Still, all the set-top boxes work fine, so I vote that ATI is way too picky...

Thanks for your help

Yeah it's a different, simpler and exact workaround. But no need of an "upgrade", you can keep using the existing mod with no issues.

EDID Overrides (capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #286 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post
Thx Beamer. You're not gonna believe this but that capture EDID is the override!!! The audio block is exactly the same I've been using for these mods.

Can you capture the real-time EDID again with latest Moninfo. Trapo got it right on the the other thread using moninfo and I'm begiining to suspect that getEDID is not capturing the real time EDID. But let's wait for your moninfo capture to jump to conclusions.
OK Lets try again

Here is a realtime capture with moninfo. Hope fully the bin file is ok for your to work with.

 

Denon AVP.zip 0.3251953125k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip Denon AVP.zip (333 Bytes, 7 views)
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post #287 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

OK Lets try again

Here is a realtime capture with moninfo. Hope fully the bin file is ok for your to work with.

OK, Beamer, that EDID has the TrueHD 192khz option marked as not supported for 8 channels, and has the 2 tipical TrueHD audio descriptors of DENON EDIDs. Your DENON has the "standard", faulty, DENON EDID.

So there's no doubt now that you are really still running the override from a registry (or system) leftover! (so getEDID is not reading the realtime EDID ... time for vladd to have a look a it.)

EDID Overrides (capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #288 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

The mod is to fix an issue where Windows is not able to tell that your AVR can decode HD audio so you can bitstream. The issue is that the EDID contains data about the video capabilities of your monitor as well as the audio capabilites.

The computer will "see" the AVR as a monitor with really good audio support since HDMI audio is piggybacked onto a video carrier signal. When you have a TV/Monitor connected to the AVR, the video support information of the TV gets passed and the AVR injects the audio support information. So the mods for various TVs have been to preserve the modes and timing information for those TVs.

Since you are connecting your TV to your 4870x2 and not to the AVR, you don't need to worry about the video timings and any Denon combination would work for you. All you will care about is the audio portion of the EDID. Your Denon will show up as a second monitor on your computer but you can just ignore it (ie: don't clone or extend the desktop).

You should attempt to bitstream without an override first to determine if you really need one (most likely you do though).

Ok, very good explanation!

You answer raised an eyebrow for me though. The reason I don't have my 4870x2 connected to the receiver (it's connected directly to the TV) is because when I connect it to the receiver I get very noticeable mouse lag. In CCC, the Denon IS recognized as a monitor and so maybe this thread also pertains to the 4xxx line (since it's been determined this is a receiver problem actually).

Do you think the EDID override might help the mouse lag? If so, should I just try the (*) Samsung LN-S4095D - DENON AVR988 override first?
Edit: Or should I just capture the EDID and post it here?

Btw, I am using a Samsung LN52A750 and Denon 2310CI.

Sorry for all the questions, this is all new to me.

I really appreciate all the help that is being volunteered here!

Edit: Also, I am not getting the third option in PowerDVD9.
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post #289 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

OK, Beamer, that EDID has the TrueHD 192khz option marked as not supported for 8 channels, and has the 2 tipical TrueHD audio descriptors of DENON EDIDs. Your DENON has the "standard", faulty, DENON EDID.

So there's no doubt now that you are really still running the override from a registry (or system) leftover! (so getEDID is not reading the realtime EDID ... time for vladd to have a look a it.)

If we can replicate my registry settings for everyone, this might be a nicer solution to fixing the problem! I can pretty much guarantee that the actual inf file is no longer present.
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post #290 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Thx Beamer. You're not gonna believe this but that capture EDID is the override!!! The audio block is exactly the same I've been using for these mods.

Can you capture the real-time EDID again with latest Moninfo. Trapo got it right on the the other thread using moninfo and I'm begiining to suspect that getEDID is not capturing the real time EDID. But let's wait for your moninfo capture to jump to conclusions.

I don't know if I'm happy to hear this or not. On one hand, it means that the ATI driver API is returning the EDID override if it exist and reading it realtime if it doesn't. This means that GetEDID will show exactly what the driver is seeing and processing. On the other hand, it means that there is no method in the driver to capture the realtime EDID if there is an override present.

I'll look into this further but it may have to be after I get back from vacation.
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post #291 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

Ok, very good explanation!

You answer raised an eyebrow for me though. The reason I don't have my 4870x2 connected to the receiver (it's connected directly to the TV) is because when I connect it to the receiver I get very noticeable mouse lag. In CCC, the Denon IS recognized as a monitor and so maybe this thread also pertains to the 4xxx line (since it's been determined this is a receiver problem actually).

Do you think the EDID override might help the mouse lag? If so, should I just try the (*) Samsung LN-S4095D - DENON AVR988 override first?
Edit: Or should I just capture the EDID and post it here?

Btw, I am using a Samsung LN52A750 and Denon 2310CI.

Sorry for all the questions, this is all new to me.

I really appreciate all the help that is being volunteered here!

Edit: Also, I am not getting the third option in PowerDVD9.

The Samsung LN-S4095D - DENON AVR988 should work, but rather post the Samsung LN52A750 EDID, so that the exact timings of your display device are detected by the ATI driver.

I think I have the 2310 EDID in my DB but post that one too just in case.

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post #292 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

I don't know if I'm happy to hear this or not. On one hand, it means that the ATI driver API is returning the EDID override if it exist and reading it realtime if it doesn't. This means that GetEDID will show exactly what the driver is seeing and processing. On the other hand, it means that there is no method in the driver to capture the realtime EDID if there is an override present.

I'll look into this further but it may have to be after I get back from vacation.

The status of my system is even more interesting than it first appears.

With Tulli's override in place, I could play the various HD audio formats fine. Unfortunately it played havoc with my two screens Kuro / JVC PJ

The EDID was taken from the Kuro and forced upon the JVS due to being unable to load two different display overrides. After removing the override & performing a complete driver clean up, I now have full HD audio capability and my displays are now recognised independently of each other

I have no idea how it's fixed but I am a happy camper
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post #293 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

If we can replicate my registry settings for everyone, this might be a nicer solution to fixing the problem! I can pretty much guarantee that the actual inf file is no longer present.

Well, you're not able to uninstall the override right now, and that could be a problem when changing display device or even getting an AVR that does not require an override to bitstreaam.

I´m not at home now but overrides are stored in the registry under the key

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Enum\\DISPLAY

Will check it out when I get home ...

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post #294 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:09 AM
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Beamer, can you export the following key for me and zip and attach the reg file:
Code:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Enum\\DISPLAY\\
Edit: Tulli is ahead of me.
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post #295 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

The Samsung LN-S4095D - DENON AVR988 should work, but rather post the Samsung LN52A750 EDID, so that the exact timings of your display device are detected by the ATI driver.

I think I have the 2310 EDID in my DB but post that one too just in case.

Ok, will do as soon as I get back home.

Does it matter if I generate them using the 4870x2? The reason being, if this display timing fix works, then I won't bother opening the 5450. If it doesn't work, I will install the 5450 and the override will already be in place.

With that said, is there a proper way to undo the override to test the 5450 clean or should I just plug it in with the override already in place?
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post #296 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

I don't know if I'm happy to hear this or not. On one hand, it means that the ATI driver API is returning the EDID override if it exist and reading it realtime if it doesn't. This means that GetEDID will show exactly what the driver is seeing and processing. On the other hand, it means that there is no method in the driver to capture the realtime EDID if there is an override present.

I'll look into this further but it may have to be after I get back from vacation.

Right, looks like it´s a layer above windows, and so not possible to capture the real EDID with the ATI driver API. Anyway I like it very much to have a tool that gives me what EDID is actually being seen by the system.

EDID Overrides (capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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post #297 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Right, looks like it´s a layer above windows, and so not possible to capture the real EDID with the ATI driver API.

There is another function in the API that will grab the DDC info which may be what I need to use. I'm going to look into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Anyway I like it very much to have a tool that gives me what EDID is actually being seen by the system.

I agree. This is still pretty useful so I'm not going to scrap that function.
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post #298 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post
Beamer, can you export the following key for me and zip and attach the reg file:
Code:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Enum\\DISPLAY\\
Edit: Tulli is ahead of me.
Tulli / Vladd

Here you go, attached registry entries

 

Display.zip 1.96484375k . file
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File Type: zip Display.zip (2.0 KB, 10 views)
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post #299 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

Ok, will do as soon as I get back home.

Does it matter if I generate them using the 4870x2? The reason being, if this display timing fix works, then I won't bother opening the 5450. If it doesn't work, I will install the 5450 and the override will already be in place.

The 4870x2 will be fine. The data captured will be the same regardless of which card you use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

With that said, is there a proper way to undo the override to test the 5450 clean or should I just plug it in with the override already in place?

I can't remember if the override stays in place if you switch video cards. It's pretty painless to uninstall the override though. Beamer's case seems to be the exception but we can easily clear his override too. We're just not doing it at this time since it's working for him.
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post #300 of 4081 Old 02-25-2010, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

Tulli / Vladd

Here you go, attached registry entries

This is it:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Enum\\DISPLAY \\DON0009\\5&206f7bc7&0&UID259\\Device Parameters\\EDID_OVERRIDE]
"0"=hex:00,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,00,11,ee,09,00,01,01,01,01,00,11,0 1,03,80,6e,3e,\\
78,2a,d7,b3,ae,51,50,94,23,0c,4a,47,21,08,00,81,80,01,01,01, 01,01,01,01,01,\\
01,01,01,01,01,01,02,3a,80,d0,72,38,2d,40,10,2c,45,80,4e,6c, 42,00,00,1e,02,\\
3a,80,18,71,38,2d,40,58,2c,45,00,4e,6c,42,00,00,1e,00,00,00, fd,00,17,3d,0f,\\
45,0f,00,0a,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,fc,00,44,45,4e,4f,4e, 2d,41,56,41,4d,\\
50,0a,20,01,6c
"1"=hex:02,03,4b,f1,5c,14,05,9f,10,12,03,13,04,11,02,16,07,15,0 6,20,01,0e,23,\\
0f,24,1d,25,1e,26,0a,0b,19,1a,38,09,7f,07,0f,7f,07,17,07,50,3f,06,c0,4d,02,\\
00,57,06,00,5f,7e,01,67,5e,00
,83,5f,00,00,6c,03,0c,00,11,00,b8,2d,c0,11,11,\\
22,22,01,1d,80,d0,72,1c,16,20,10,2c,25,80,4e,6c,42,00,00,9e, 01,1d,80,18,71,\\
1c,16,20,58,2c,25,00,4e,6c,42,00,00,9e,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,\\
00,00,00,00,d1

Mod Audio block in bold ...

EDID Overrides (capture, install/uninstall, troubleshooting)
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