cetons quad cablecard tuner for media center available for pre order - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 07:56 AM
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I see that Ceton showed off a 6 tuner card at CES, I e-mailed ceton and I received an e-mail from ceton stating no release date, no pricing info as of yet.....

I'm wondering what the max number of tuners with the 4 tuner card? I thought I heard you could have a number of 5 extenders, but maybe need more, I may have to just accept using 4...

Also, if you have one ceton 4 tuner card and your using 4 extenders, and let's just say you would like to record a show or two, can you switch independantly from one tuner to record if your not using one of the extenders, or do you have to have a dedicated tuner that's only reserved to recording for dvr?, which I don't really record much, but I would start recording if I could, I have two terabites to use for storage....
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post #542 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post
I see that Ceton showed off a 6 tuner card at CES, I e-mailed ceton and I received an e-mail from ceton stating no release date, no pricing info as of yet.....

I'm wondering what the max number of tuners with the 4 tuner card? I thought I heard you could have a number of 5 extenders, but maybe need more, I may have to just accept using 4...

Also, if you have one ceton 4 tuner card and your using 4 extenders, and let's just say you would like to record a show or two, can you switch independantly from one tuner to record if your not using one of the extenders, or do you have to have a dedicated tuner that's only reserved to recording for dvr?, which I don't really record much, but I would start recording if I could, I have two terabites to use for storage....
The max number of tuners with a 4 tuner card is 4. However, the maximum number of extenders (which is what I suspect you meant to ask) has nothing to do with how many tuners are installed because the extenders can do more than just watch live TV. In addition to live TV, extenders can watch previously recorded shows and other media that's available on the media center box.

If you have 4 extenders currently watching live TV, then you won't be able to record anything in your current configuration as no tuners will be available. Windows Media Center figures out what's available - there's no notion of assigning tuners to specific tasks like recording. What you can do is add a 2nd Ceton card and install the Tuner Salad hack which will allow you to have 8 cable card tuners available. Or you could install a couple of OTA or Clear QAM tuners which would give access to a subset of the channels you get with the Ceton tuners. If you set the tuners up with the right priority (basically, you tell WMC to use the OTA and Clear QAM tuners first for channels they receive so the cable card tuners will be available for other channels), you'll be able to maximize utilization of the tuners.
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post #543 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 08:36 AM
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I thought that anything over 4 tuners was only to be sold to OEMs. So waiting for the 6 tuner model just means you'll have to buy a pre-built HTPC with a 6 tuner card installed.

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post #544 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bryansj View Post
I thought that anything over 4 tuners was only to be sold to OEMs. So waiting for the 6 tuner model just means you'll have to buy a pre-built HTPC with a 6 tuner card installed.
I suspect we won't know for sure until they're closer to shipping the product. However, with some of the rules having changed in the ways that tuners can be shared with other PC's, they may be able to sell the 6 tuner card to "regular" consumers like us. Once the firmware fully supports it, you could assign 4 tuners to the host PC and 2 tuners to other PC's in the house with no need for any hacks like Tuner Salad. The obvious downside to that is you wouldn't be able to use all 6 tuners on the host PC if you had more than 4 shows being watched / recorded at the same time on that PC (and any connected extenders).
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post #545 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

The max number of tuners with a 4 tuner card is 4. However, the maximum number of extenders (which is what I suspect you meant to ask) has nothing to do with how many tuners are installed because the extenders can do more than just watch live TV. In addition to live TV, extenders can watch previously recorded shows and other media that's available on the media center box.

If you have 4 extenders currently watching live TV, then you won't be able to record anything in your current configuration as no tuners will be available. Windows Media Center figures out what's available - there's no notion of assigning tuners to specific tasks like recording. What you can do is add a 2nd Ceton card and install the Tuner Salad hack which will allow you to have 8 cable card tuners available. Or you could install a couple of OTA or Clear QAM tuners which would give access to a subset of the channels you get with the Ceton tuners. If you set the tuners up with the right priority (basically, you tell WMC to use the OTA and Clear QAM tuners first for channels they receive so the cable card tuners will be available for other channels), you'll be able to maximize utilization of the tuners.

Thanks GSR!

I was making sure you have to have at least one tuner dedicated for recording / dvr functions, but I did not know that you could have unlimited number of extenders..

I'm getting my M card this week, I have my htpc with everything installed and working great, but when I read about the ceton 6 tuner card, I was going to wait before opening up my ceton 4 tuner, cause the 6 tuner will use only 1 M card, so I thought maybe I could wait for this but figured no info right now, probably several months or more before this, but two ceton 4 tuners are better option, having 2 tuners dedicated for recording, like that better...

I will have two seperate co-ax feeds, one with 8x amplified splitter for OTA and another 8x amplified splitter for cable tv ( just for future owners ) and use the HTPC for the extenders... Thanks.
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post #546 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

I was making sure you have to have at least one tuner dedicated for recording / dvr functions, but I did not know that you could have unlimited number of extenders..

I didn't say you can have an unlimited number of extenders - the limit is 5 with an active connection at a time, IIRC. My understanding is that you can have more than 5 linked to the WMC box, but only 5 can be connected at a time. What I said is that the number of tuners you have in the system has absolutely nothing to do with how many extenders you can have.

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cause the 6 tuner will use only 1 M card,

Yeah, 6 tuners for 1 cable card is the perfect match because a single M card can support up to 6 tuners.

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Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

so I thought maybe I could wait for this but figured no info right now, probably several months or more before this,

I wouldn't expect to see the 6 tuner card ship until they've gotten the supply taken care of for their first product.

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Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

having 2 tuners dedicated for recording, like that better...

Like I said, there's no notion of assigning tuners to any given task (such as extender use only or recording use only) in Windows Media Center. You tell Windows Media Center what tuners it should use (selected from the tuners you have installed) and IT decides how to use them. The only other control you have is assigning the tuner priority for individual channels so that your less capable tuners (OTA and/or Clear QAM) will be used for the channels they're capable of tuning before the more capable tuners (Cable Card) get used so the more capable tuners are more likely to be available for channels the less capable tuners can't receive.
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post #547 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 12:17 PM
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I ordered my infinitv4 card 6 weeks ago and just got the email that they will be charging my card and shipping within 10 days. Looks like they are starting to "ketchup."

Ill have my card before I have my new h67 board lol
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post #548 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I didn't say you can have an unlimited number of extenders - the limit is 5 with an active connection at a time, IIRC. My understanding is that you can have more than 5 linked to the WMC box, but only 5 can be connected at a time. What I said is that the number of tuners you have in the system has absolutely nothing to do with how many extenders you can have.


Yeah, 6 tuners for 1 cable card is the perfect match because a single M card can support up to 6 tuners.


I wouldn't expect to see the 6 tuner card ship until they've gotten the supply taken care of for their first product.


Like I said, there's no notion of assigning tuners to any given task (such as extender use only or recording use only) in Windows Media Center. You tell Windows Media Center what tuners it should use (selected from the tuners you have installed) and IT decides how to use them. The only other control you have is assigning the tuner priority for individual channels so that your less capable tuners (OTA and/or Clear QAM) will be used for the channels they're capable of tuning before the more capable tuners (Cable Card) get used so the more capable tuners are more likely to be available for channels the less capable tuners can't receive.

Thanks for the info, sounds like I will be playing around with the 4 tuners, then if it is needed, will buy another ceton card... Thanks again for your help.
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post #549 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by westerndigital81 View Post

I ordered my infinitv4 card 6 weeks ago and just got the email that they will be charging my card and shipping within 10 days.

Wow, is the turn around on orders still that long, 7-8 weeks until in hand? I have been wanting to order one of these for awhile but I can't wait that long for anything...
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post #550 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

Also, if you have one ceton 4 tuner card and your using 4 extenders, and let's just say you would like to record a show or two, can you switch independantly from one tuner to record if your not using one of the extenders, or do you have to have a dedicated tuner that's only reserved to recording for dvr?, which I don't really record much, but I would start recording if I could, I have two terabites to use for storage....

GSR's answered your questions, but I just wanted to clarify to be sure.

(1) The tuners are for use by WMC, either for (a) active viewing or recording on the HTPC of a currently live program, or (b) use by an extender to view a currently live program.

And, with proper setup, you can even network-share (i.e. "borrow") that tuner physically located in the primary HTPC where the Ceton card lives, with another PC on the network. Obviously if a given tuner is assigned for use by a second WMC running in a second PC then it can't simultaneously be used by the primary WMC in the primary HTPC. But the physical tuners can actually be network-shared like this.

(2) The current MS-determined limit for max number of tuners of a given "type" in a single HTPC is 4. There is a MS-provided OEM/commercial non-consumer option for 8 tuners per type.

Encrypted cablecard-enabled QAM cable channels is one type, clear QAM (does not require a cablecard) cable channels is another type, and OTA ATSC (e.g. ATI TV Wonder cards) is another type. Again, a max of 4 tuners dedicated to each type of tuning.

(3) The extenders are independent network-connected outboard devices that connect to WMC on the HTPC via ethernet cables and which facilitate viewing WMC-provided live or recorded content at remote TV/AVR "nodes" (both SD and HDTV, through either analog or digital audio/video connections depending on model).

WMC supports a max of 5 simultaneously active extenders actually turned on and "connected" (even if not doing something but just sitting idle at the main menu).

Theoretically you can have more than 5 physical extenders connected by ethernet cable on the LAN, but only 5 can be "on and connected to WMC" at one time.

(4) Through the extender you can watch either (a) live TV programs, or (b) previously recorded TV programs. The extender can also facilitate other capabilities of WMC (e.g. viewing videos and movies, etc.) but this discussion is limited to its use with TV tuner functionality.

If an extender is used to watch live TV, then an available tuner on the HTPC is required right at that moment. If all tuners are currently being used for either recording programs, or feeding other extenders which are watching live TV, then the newly requested live TV capability is not available at this next extender which wanted a tuner since no free tuner is currently available at that moment.

(5) Once a tuner is allocated by WMC to the extender watching live TV, it is temporarily no longer available to WMC itself for use in timer-recording some other program.

Of course the same tuner can be used for both (a) watching live TV of that program on that extender, and (b) WMC simultaneously recording that same program on the HTPC, triggered manually by pushing the RECORD button on the extender's remote. In this special case the tuner might be considered to be simultaneously supporting both the extender and recording (of the same program), so one tuner can do both jobs at once. But this is a special situation and the recording control was done manually at that extender.

In other words, timer-recording by WMC requires a truly free and available separate tuner (not being used by any other recording or by any extender watching live TV) at that moment, to get started. Even if a connected extender happens to be watching live TV on the very same channel whose program timer-scheduled for timer-recording by WMC, this is not sufficient to allocate that same tuner to the timer-recording function of WMC.

As long as an extender is using a tuner for watching/recording live TV using that tuner, the tuner is temporarily not available for allocation by WMC for a totally independent timer-scheduled recording (although by coincidence it might have been for the very same program currently being viewed at some extender).

(6) In other words, active and connected extenders are considered by WMC to be TV's being used by humans.

If a previously recorded program is being viewed at that extender/TV, then no tuner on the HTPC is needed. All tuners on the HTPC remain available to WMC for timer-recording use.

If live TV is being watched at an extender/TV, then one free tuner on the HTPC is required and if available is allocated by WMC to that extender for the duration of that live TV session. That tuner is thus temporarily removed from the "free-tuner pool" and is temporarily not available to WMC for user in its own timer-recording needs or for allocation to another extender's live TV needs.

If an extender/TV changes from live TV viewing mode to instead watching a previously recorded program, the tuner which was previously allocated to that extender for live TV use is immediately returned to WMC and goes back into the "free-tuner pool" for use by either timer-recording needs or for allocation to another extender's live TV needs.

(7) To summarize:

(a) max of 4 tuners of each given tuner type supported by WMC in standard consumer setups

(b) max of 5 simultaneously active extenders

(c) each active extender uses 1 tuner if "live TV" is being watched at that extender, which causes WMC to remove that tuner from the 4-tuner pool and allocate it to the extender for as long as needed

(d) when viewing a previously recorded program at an extender, no tuner is required

(e) when WMC is timer-recording, a free tuner usable for that type of recording must be available for exclusive allocation for that purpose from the 4-tuner pool.

(8) NOTE: if multiple tuner cards are installed in one HTPC so that the combined Guide information covering the tuners shows that the same program is actually available on multiple channels available through the multiple tuners, WMC is sophisticated enough to resolve scheduling conflicts to re-allocate a second tuner to satisfy the timer-recording needs of the channel/program, if the primary tuner for that channel/program is already in use.

For example, an ATI TV Wonder 1-tuner card for OTA ATSC use can pick up local LA digital network channels like 2.1 (CBSDT), 4.1 (NBCDT), 5.1 (CWDT), 7.1 (ABCDT), 11.1 (FOXDT), etc.. The very same local network channels are carried on TWC/LA as 402, 404, 405, 407, 411, etc.

If on Wednesday night at 8PM you wanted to record "Survivor" and "American Idol" which are both on at the same time, you could schedule them in multiple different ways: (a) Survivor on 402 and American Idol on 411, (b) Survivor on 2.1 and American Idol on 411, or (c) Survivor on 402 and American Idol on 11.1.

Personally, I use the OTA ATSC channel whenever possible for local network viewing/recording because there is no bitrate compression from the OTA local networks, whereas TWC/LA re-compresses its channels including these local networks. The video quality thus suffers from re-compression and lower bitrates on TWC/LA whereas watching them OTA ATSC is at least "pristine" at the original network-provided compression quality and bitrate.

Nevertheless, thanks to the Zapit2-provided Guide data, WMC tuner scheduling will also successfully resolve conflicts when it knows a channel's content is available through multiple tuner sources. So, for example, if you first scheduled Survivor at 8PM on channel 2.1, and then you also tried to schedule American Idol at 8PM on channel 11.1, WMC would recognize that the 1-tuner ATI TV Wonder single tuner was no longer available for the second request. But, seeing that very same American Idol program was also available on 411, it would actually schedule the recording for channel 411 on the Ceton 4-tuner card even though you asked for it on channel 11.1 of the ATI 1-tuner card. You are advised of this when you set the recording.

If you later go back and look at the Guide matrix, you will see a red dot (recording) icon in the Survivor cell on channel 2.1, and an exclamation mark icon in the American Idol cell on channel 11.1. If you push the INFO button on the American Idol cell, you will see a message that "this program will be recorded on channel KTTV-DT 411", reminding you that you'd asked for it on 11.1 but it's being satisfied on 411 due to conflict resolution.

==> If you want to be sure your "favorite" program goes to the OTA ATSC 1-tuner card (to get the best video quality), just set that timer recording first. Then, any subsequent "conflicting" programs that you want to record at the same time will automatically be re-assigned over to the 4-tuner Ceton cable channel equivalent if you try to schedule it on the 1-tuner OTA ATSC channel.

Also note that this holds for both one-off as well as series recordings. The exact same discussion above for AI and Survivor would apply if I was trying to set a "series" recording for both, and wanted Survivor to always be on 2.1 thus always forcing AI to 411, I would set the series recording for Survivor first (on 2.1), and then set the series recording for AI second (with 11.1 rolling over into 411 by WMC, or I could set 411 directly myself).


I know... long and verbose. But I hope this was useful info.
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post #551 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 04:15 PM
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Yikes - that was a LOT longer than my posts .

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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

(2) The current MS-determined limit for max number of tuners of a given "type" in a single HTPC is 4. There is a MS-provided OEM/commercial non-consumer option for 8 tuners per type.

Just 1 clarification... Tuner Salad and Big Screen EPG will get around the 4 tuner per type limit for those of us without access to the special version of WMC.
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post #552 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 06:00 PM
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either way, I would still need two M cards if I'm going to run 2 ceton4's....

This tells me I'm all-in for this as long as I have cable, I don't think this works with satellite, so...

I believe I have 6 Linksys DMA 2100's, and I got my Ceton card running today, just have to give comcast a call, hopefully I'm not too bummed with how all the recording of all the shows is on comcast....

Thanks for giving me the rundown there, this will help, media center is a new bag to learn, thanks again for the helpful info!
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post #553 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

either way, I would still need two M cards if I'm going to run 2 ceton4's...

Yes. One M-Card per Ceton.


Quote:


media center is a new bag to learn, thanks again for the helpful info!

Just for additional support, there are several other online forums largely populated by very knowledgeable WMC users and Ceton users willing to share their insights and answer your questions, as well as help solve any problems you might run into.

In particular, you should check out TheGreenButton forum and in particular (a) the hardware sub-forum, and (b) the extenders sub-forum. These will be the most useful for any questions you might have on (a) the Ceton card, and (b) the Linksys DMA2100.

WMC is really a very elegant interface, and I'm completely satisfied. I'd used BeyondTV with my ATI TV Wonder cards for many years and was very positive on the product. But honestly I'm perfectly satisfied with WMC as its replacement, not to mention its new capabilities along with the Ceton card.

To make the WMC Guide look "prettier", you should install the My Channel Logos package. Very nice.


Also, my own feeling is that I suggest you NOT install the Show Analyzer add-in for WMC, which provides an automatic commercial-free playback experience. Aside from the issues about how accurate it is on detecting commercial pods (and in my opinion during my own experimenting with the product it was never ever as good as the similar SmartSkip feature in BeyondTV), it consumes essentially 100% of your CPU horsepower as it scans the WTV recording looking for commercials.

This takes lots of time, electricity, heat, etc., generating much fan noise, and all of which purportedly saves you the trouble of manually hitting the 30-second skip forward button on the remote a few times, followed by one or two 12-second (I've changed it from the default 7-second) skip back button pushes if you overshoot, to accomplish the identical commercial-skip but manually.

Furthermore, Show Analyzer assumes you've got a second product running 24/7 that constantly (or at least every few minutes) watches your Recorded TV folder looking for new drop-offs (i.e. new recordings), in order to trigger the Show Analyzer process for that recording. This constant examination of the drive prevents it from ever spinning down, if you've got your power save scheme set to spin down drives if not in use for an extended period.

Finally, WTV files that are for copy-protected recordings can't even be read by Show Analyzer in the first place! They are encrypted and can only be decrypted by WMC itself at playback time. They can't be read, edited, or used by an software other than WMC. This means Show Analyzer can only be used for copy-freely WTV files, meaning essentially local TV networks. For example, here in TWC/LA all channels other than local OTA TV networks are marked copy-once, and thus cannot be processed by any other software than WMC itself.

That's right... EVERY channel (not just the premium movie channels) are marked copy-once by TWC/LA. So I can't make an AVI clip from a cable show, etc. VideoReDo cannot read these encrypted WTV files.


Anyway, welcome to the WMC/Ceton club, with a huge hard drive for recording programs!

I think you and your family are going to like it... very very much.
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post #554 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

This tells me I'm all-in for this as long as I have cable, I don't think this works with satellite,

Correct. Only via M-Card, from cable systems.


Quote:


I believe I have 6 Linksys DMA 2100's, and I got my Ceton card running today

Just one more comment here...

1080i HDTV via TCPIP on your home network takes about 25Mb/sec bandwidth... per extender that's active and in use. My strongest suggestion is that you utilize wired connections to the DMA2100's, not wireless.

So if you plan to be using several at a time (and even up to 5 at once), you're probably going to need not just a 10/100 router, but rather a gigabit router. You don't want to choke the HDTV extenders, and you still want high-speed access to the Internet from your computers.

I'm of course assuming that your HTPC has a built-in gigabit NIC. Cat6 cable to the router?
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post #555 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 09:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dsperber View Post

(8) NOTE: if multiple tuner cards are installed in one HTPC so that the combined Guide information covering the tuners shows that the same program is actually available on multiple channels available through the multiple tuners, WMC is sophisticated enough to resolve scheduling conflicts to re-allocate a second tuner to satisfy the timer-recording needs of the channel/program, if the primary tuner for that channel/program is already in use.

As a note, Windows is NOT smart enough to use two different tuners if you are recording two shows back to back...you WILL lose part of the second show on the end of the first show. It does not matter if you have three unused tuners...

There is a work around.

You have to set each series to record 10 minutes after the show...not the "if possibe" but the one which does it no matter what. You cannot do this from the default recorder settings as that only sets the "if possible" flag. This will force the InfinTV to use a different tuner for the second program.

This is not Ceton's fault, but rather how Windows works.
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post #556 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 10:00 PM
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As a note, Windows is NOT smart enough to use two different tuners if you are recording two shows back to back...you WILL lose part of the second show on the end of the first show. It does not matter if you have three unused tuners...

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying exactly, but if I do then it might explain a mysterious anomaly I've never been able to understand until now.

I'm not actually losing part of the second show on the end of the first show. I'm not getting the extra time at the end of the first show I would expect. Instead, the first show ends on time (though it might not actually be the true end of the show, if it's running long) and the second show also starts right on time (so that maybe the running long first show really occupies the first minute or two of the second show's recording).

Of course this isn't really awful, since at least I have lost none of the sum of the two shows, even though the physical beginning of show two is the tail end of show one.

Are you saying that if you have two consecutive shows on the same channel, that the same tuner will always be used to record both shows? So even if I have "+1 minute if possible" specified as my global recording default settings the first show will NOT be the extra minute in length, but rather will be stopped as per schedule and the second show started right then... on the same tuner?

And that this can be overcome by changing the "if possible" to the "always forced" option (don't recall at the moment if this is available for all additional time values, but I'll check), so that it now is mandatory for WMC to use a second tuner for the second show, since they would now overlap "forced" if the first show MUST be recorded for the extra minute?

Or is this only possible with an extra 10 minutes tacked on "forced" to the end of the first show?

Actually, this may be a fine workaround for recordings destined for the Ceton 4-tuner card (assuming you really do want those extra minutes at the tail end of the first show's recording instead of buried at the beginning of the second show's recording where they would otherwise be found if only 1 tuner was used consecutively to record both programs), but it's NOT really what I would want if I truly wanted local network programs to strictly use my ATI TV Wonder OTA ATSC 1-tuner card.

In other words, I'd actually be quite satisfied to have 2+ hours consecutively recorded on a single OTA ATSC channel from that tuner card (with the first program ending on the hour instead of extending a bit, and the second program starting on the hour and extending a bit) instead of causing the second program to go over to the Ceton card as it would have to otherwise in order to start on time (if the first program is still recording the extra minutes on the ATI card).

Yes, I'd have the extra minutes from program one at the start of program two's recording, but I can live with that. My higher-level priority is to have BOTH programs recorded on the ATI tuner.


However I think I understand what you're saying. And if I only had the 4-tuner Ceton card it probably WOULD be a good thing to set up properly (although having the extra 10 minutes on every show, need it or not, might get annoying after a while).

In any event, your explanation certainly gives me the answer to that mystery I've been looking for... namely why back-to-back programs on the same channel never seem to exhibit the "1 extra minute if possible" feature at the end of the first show. They're clearly using the same tuner (easily confirmed by looking at the History) instead of using two separate tuners as one would expect.

Thanks for this insight.
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post #557 of 560 Old 03-14-2011, 10:05 PM
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Also, my own feeling is that I suggest you NOT install the Show Analyzer add-in for WMC, which provides an automatic commercial-free playback experience. Aside from the issues about how accurate it is on detecting commercial pods (and in my opinion during my own experimenting with the product it was never ever as good as the similar SmartSkip feature in BeyondTV), it consumes essentially 100% of your CPU horsepower as it scans the WTV recording looking for commercials.

Show Analyzer + DVRMSToolbox is great IMO.

Of any addon for WMC, this one gave me the most SAF points of any by far.

I use a combination of Ben Drawbaugh's Guide and tweak SA using this method with the help of a custom config file mentioned in this post. I let DVRMSTool Box (not SA) watch my TV Directory and use 2 workers, but never have seen my CPU jump past 70%. (i5 750 + SSD for OS and recorded TV on a Caviar Black)
IMO, this is what my HTPC is for - maximum entertainment value.

Watching commercial free TV without touching the remote is a real treat.
You can start watching a 1 hour recorded TV show 15 minutes in, SA + DTB will scan and skip as you watch and you'll end the 1 hour show 45 minutes later without watching any commercials (hands free).

But, if your provider marks your content as (you mentioned) mostly copy once - you're SOL. My provider is almost all copy freely, so it works for me.
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post #558 of 560 Old 03-15-2011, 06:32 AM
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I'm not sure I follow what you're saying exactly, but if I do then it might explain a mysterious anomaly I've never been able to understand until now.



Or is this only possible with an extra 10 minutes tacked on "forced" to the end of the first show?


The workaround for back to back recordings on the same channel ONLY works if you force 10 or more minutes extra. Even if you force 5 minutes extra, the workaround doesn't work in the way you would expect. If you "force" less than 10 minutes extra, the first show will record the extra minutes and the 2nd show will start recording that number of minutes late. If you choose the "when possible" options, the first recording will end on time and the 2nd recording will start on time when you have back to back recordings on the same channel.

This was the one really frustrating issue I ran into when I first started using WMC as I (reasonably, I think) expected the force extra times to give me the extra time at the end of recordings and use another tuner for the show that follows. If they wanted to get smart about it, they could also use the same tuner and write the data out to both files during the overlap.
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post #559 of 560 Old 03-15-2011, 07:55 AM
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Correct. Only via M-Card, from cable systems.


Just one more comment here...

1080i HDTV via TCPIP on your home network takes about 25Mb/sec bandwidth... per extender that's active and in use. My strongest suggestion is that you utilize wired connections to the DMA2100's, not wireless.

So if you plan to be using several at a time (and even up to 5 at once), you're probably going to need not just a 10/100 router, but rather a gigabit router. You don't want to choke the HDTV extenders, and you still want high-speed access to the Internet from your computers.

I'm of course assuming that your HTPC has a built-in gigabit NIC. Cat6 cable to the router?

I installede a gigabit router, and yes the HTPC has gigabit as well, I ran 2 sheilded cat6 runs to every room in the house, my basement br / workour room, bar, etc, I was going to buy a 24 port gigabit L2 managed switch to manage speed, but I ended up with a regular 24 port gigabit smart switch ( D-Link DGS-1024D ) but I was worried about bandwidth if using multiple extenders. I've only believed in hard wired connections with regards to best possible speeds given with utilizing 1080i/p, so I hope this will still work. Using 5 extenders at once will not happen that often maybe during a party where people are upstairs and downstairs, mostly only 3 would be used at once, mostly live tv ( cable tv ) but it would be nice to show the world series / superbowl / etc live, or some recorded shows, or play a concert over the extenders at once, not not regularly...
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post #560 of 560 Old 03-15-2011, 11:47 AM
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DSperber the true problem isn't that MC won't use a new tuner but how it handles starting recordings in general. It also won't add what's in the live TV buffer if you start a recording in the middle of a show(that's probably the thing I've always been the most unhappy w/), if/when they ever make it do that like most other DVRs then when you have a back to back recordings it will be likely that they'd make so we could even get the start/end X min when possible over lapping times on back to back recordings. As it is now it appears that it stops recording on first show then starts recording the next which leaves X sec of missed recording(this is not a real issue most of the time if shows start/end on time as you'd likely be in commercial still but for those shows that run a bit late or those that go straight to the next w/o commercials you usually end up missing the punch line to the last joke).

Another work around that will just use you default start/end X min when possible for channels that are also in clearQAM, is to put the clearQAM tuners lower in priority on the cable providers channel number, I'll use my FiOS channel numbers for CBS as an example set first show to record of 502(it will use cable card tuner unless they're all in use or will be needed for encrypted channel's recording before this recording ends) then set the next show to record on channel 2.1 (clearQAM only channel) or vice versa.

As for commercial skip software I can't comment on the the copy once issues as I'm all copy freely but I'd probably still use it as we watch a lot of locals prime time TV. As for the other issues you can adjust how much load it puts on you system on CPU, RAM and HDD I/O, if you have one of those just good enough play BD HTPC you'll need to adjust these along w/ the number of streams you process at once. For how well it scans, I had loaded a custom config file but I have since re-installed SA so I'm not sure if it over write that file or not but it scans pretty much ever channel except for ESPN2HD(on the 1 show we normally record on it) and CBS(on some shows) perfectly w/ whatever settings are in that profile, I haven't bothered yet but I'm sure I can get it to scan these 2 channel better and since I'm using SAV1 beta w/ profiles I can make a profile/s for these channels and any others that don't that well w/ the default profile. Also the file watcher not allowing my drives to shut down isn't an issue as they're normally in use when ever the HTPC is anyways (sure we might be watching something off the server while nothing is recording every once in awhile but far more often there will be a recording being played/recorded and/or live TV if the HTPC is awake), they shut down just fine when it goes to sleep.

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