FAQ for the 3D HTPC - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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post #421 of 1526 Old 12-26-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post

Stereoscopic player has a dual screen output option, and a "dual screen stereobright" option, not sure what the latter is. Sounds like one of those will do what you want though. It's a free trial.

Unfortunately, it won't let you play 3d Blu-rays though.


On another note, I'm trying to figure out if it's my new AVR3600 or something with the ATI 6850 that's the issue here. Basically, it supports HDMI 1.4a, but when running through the receiver, it switches the TV into 3D mode and then doesn't display anything. Connected directly to the display works, so sounds to me like it's the receiver, though maybe the card is doing something abnormal too, I'm not sure.

Similar problem here. Still no solution yet.
Hardware is: AMD 6870 + Pioneer VSX-2020 + Samsung PN50C8000
With the TV directly attached to the HTPC there is no problem with 3D Blurays. But via the AVR, PowerDVD starts the 3D Mode but the TV is losing Signal. Have to double click so that PowerDVD changes to Windows Mode (2D) to get back to my HTPC Desktop.
Anyone else with this "problems" and perhaps a solution?
Could this be related to non HDMI 1.4 cabling. I have only HDMI 1.3 cables but tested all combinations.
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post #422 of 1526 Old 12-27-2010, 10:50 AM
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So I'm just trying to get all this straight. I've read this forum and this is what seems to be the conclusion.

To play 3dBluray I simply need a 1.4 hdmi gfx card and external software like powerdvd or totalmedia.

To play 3d games, I need to purchase nvidia's emitter and have it plugged in, even though my computer will still use my tv's emitter and glasses.

My question is that last part mainly, can anyone for sure confirm that I have to have the 3d vision kit emitter to game in 3d, even though it uses my tv's emitter?
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post #423 of 1526 Old 12-27-2010, 02:57 PM
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Right now you have 2 choices for 3D gaming:
1. NVidia Graphics Card - NVidia released there own Drivers and Tools (3DTVPlay) which work with the frame packing formats for flatpanel 3D TVs
2. ATI/AMD Graphics Card - AMD released the Drivers which can output frame packing formats. 3rd party Tools are still required to feed the special interface of the graphics driver. i.e. "DDD (Tridef)" or "IZ3D". Personally I use the Tridef version with an AMD Card and I'm very pleased with the results.
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post #424 of 1526 Old 12-27-2010, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

Already done:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=159

EDIT:Confirmed later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by balky View Post

I did this with my GTX460 while waiting for my HDMI1.4 AVR to arrive.

It worked quite well except in a few instances with lip sync issues when playing MKV files.
Lip sync issue was gone when I put in the new AVR

thanks for the advice! picked up a EVGA GT430

but it seems the TMT3 3d plugin is broken with current Nvidia drivers. ...waiting on a refund

TMT5 trial works perfectly, bitstreaming HD audio (DVI to HDMI on AVR) and 3D (HDMI on TV) are both good.
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post #425 of 1526 Old 12-27-2010, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelan View Post

thanks for the advice! picked up a EVGA GT430

but it seems the TMT3 3d plugin is broken with current Nvidia drivers. ...waiting on a refund

TMT5 trial works perfectly, bitstreaming HD audio (DVI to HDMI on AVR) and 3D (HDMI on TV) are both good.

It must work with TMT3+3D plug-in too.

Open your TV/PJ first.
Boot your HTPC.
Switch on your 1.3 AVR after booting PC.
Select "blabla AVR" as your default player and setup.

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post #426 of 1526 Old 12-27-2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtualizer View Post

Right now you have 2 choices for 3D gaming:
1. NVidia Graphics Card - NVidia released there own Drivers and Tools (3DTVPlay) which work with the frame packing formats for flatpanel 3D TVs
2. ATI/AMD Graphics Card - AMD released the Drivers which can output frame packing formats. 3rd party Tools are still required to feed the special interface of the graphics driver. i.e. "DDD (Tridef)" or "IZ3D". Personally I use the Tridef version with an AMD Card and I'm very pleased with the results.

As far as 1 goes, after playing with it for a bit, I think you MUST have the NVidia 3D kit, you can't just use the glasses that came with your TV. I'm not seeing any release of the 3DTV Play software as a standalone item, and the 3D stuff in the driver requires you to plug in the NVidia emitter.

So those of us with the PC and the TV with the TV's glasses - out of luck, near as I can tell.
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post #427 of 1526 Old 12-27-2010, 06:12 PM
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I think we need more feedback from Ati users.
This thread seems to be open for only nVidia owners.
Anyone who has any AMD card with his/her own experience results?

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post #428 of 1526 Old 12-28-2010, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

It must work with TMT3+3D plug-in too.

Open your TV/PJ first.
Boot your HTPC.
Switch on your 1.3 AVR after booting PC.
Select "blabla AVR" as your default player and setup.

thought it should as well, but:

from arcsoft forums
"You know what... I think I may have been misleading before. TMT3 should work fine with the NV 3D Vision hardware, but regarding HDMI 1.4 support, I think they made a change to their drivers just before release that broke our initialization of the 3D mode and a fix for it has not been publicly released for TMT3.

Sorry for the confusion. I've been so preoccupied with TMT5 which has worked fine all along that it slipped my mind this has not been addressed in TMT3 yet"

"TMT3 works with NV 3D Vision emitter and glasses on monitors/sets/projectors that support 3D Vision.

TMT3 does not work with glasses provided with HDMI 1.4 support TVs (with the BETA and RC drivers from NV, but it did work with pre-release drivers from them that you won't be able to get most likely.)

TMT5 does work on HDMI 1.4 TVs with the provided glasses and current NV drivers...."
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post #429 of 1526 Old 12-28-2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelan View Post

"TMT3 works with NV 3D Vision emitter and glasses on monitors/sets/projectors that support 3D Vision.

TMT3 does not work with glasses provided with HDMI 1.4 support TVs (with the BETA and RC drivers from NV, but it did work with pre-release drivers from them that you won't be able to get most likely.)

TMT5 does work on HDMI 1.4 TVs with the provided glasses and current NV drivers...."

Thanks for the feedback.

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post #430 of 1526 Old 12-28-2010, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtualizer View Post

Similar problem here. Still no solution yet.
Hardware is: AMD 6870 + Pioneer VSX-2020 + Samsung PN50C8000
With the TV directly attached to the HTPC there is no problem with 3D Blurays. But via the AVR, PowerDVD starts the 3D Mode but the TV is losing Signal. Have to double click so that PowerDVD changes to Windows Mode (2D) to get back to my HTPC Desktop.
Anyone else with this "problems" and perhaps a solution?
Could this be related to non HDMI 1.4 cabling. I have only HDMI 1.3 cables but tested all combinations.


Well there's no specific HDMI 1.4 cable, as long as you use high speed cable then it should work.

I've got an HK receiver, and they suggested that it was the cable length that was causing a handshaking issue, as I had two 10 foot long HDMI high speed cables, but I just received shorter ones (6 feet total run from PC to receiver to TV), and it still does the same thing.

I do have a Samsung TV as well, so that and the ATI hardware sound like the common denominator, but it sounds like we get the exact same issue.

I did discover if I turn on GPU scaling, that it'll display 720p 60Hz content (in Stereoscopic Player, not in TMT5), but for some reason 1080p 24Hz seems to be an issue.

I also see that there's another post on an AMD forum where someone doesn't have it working passing through their receiver.

So, I have to ask... is there anyone with an AMD 6xxx card who has 3D working via HDMI 1.4a by passing it through a receiver?

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post #431 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

I think we need more feedback from Ati users.
This thread seems to be open for only nVidia owners.
Anyone who has any AMD card with his/her own experience results?

Well, I can now report on both...
I added an HD 5450 in a second slot in my HTPC (in addition to a gt430) in order to get 3d through an Optoma GT720 projector without the 3d Vision emitter.

To my surprise, the two cards went along nicely. Win 7-64, latest drivers on both (did not install the amd hdmi sound), Samsung 720p 3d to HDMI on the Nvidia card, the Optoma to HDMI on the AMD card; display management through Windows.

However, when I tried to play a BR3D disk, experienced a lot of erratic behavior - PDVD (latest build) refusing to play at all, with messages of incompatible driver, or playing only DVD's and not BRD's; tried different things - installing IZ3D, installing TMT5 trial, changing primary displays, installing AnyDVD, eventually uninstalling iz3d - no luck: crashes, errors, hang-ups. Eventually, both PDVD and TMT started consistently crashing without an error message on attempt to play any disk format.

Finally, I disabled the gt430 in Device Manager, and - miracle - PDVD worked flawlessly on the projector, showing gorgious, smooth 3d 120Hz frame-flipped through DLP-link (ironically, the PDVD 3d output setting is "Nvidia 3d vision"). TMT5 worked, too (I do not remember setting the output format). Again, no IZ3d installed. No crosstalk, no grainy checkerboard, nice 3d effect (projecting 30" diagonally on a whitish wall). Had to swap views a few times, the easiest way was through PDVD's menu.

I activated the gt 430, and tested again. IIRC (this was late into the night), PDVD worked initially once (yay!), but then started consistently throwing an 0116 error, "incompatible driver". TMT5 played with the wrong resolution/size, or froze - I do not quite remember.

But still - working full-res dlp 3d!

Planning to contact PDVD support, and to look into using hardware profiles, if there is still such a thing in Win7, in order to switch between cards.

Did not try the hdmi1.4 3d on the tv while both cards are active.
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post #432 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larsoncc View Post

As far as 1 goes, after playing with it for a bit, I think you MUST have the NVidia 3D kit, you can't just use the glasses that came with your TV. I'm not seeing any release of the 3DTV Play software as a standalone item, and the 3D stuff in the driver requires you to plug in the NVidia emitter.

So those of us with the PC and the TV with the TV's glasses - out of luck, near as I can tell.

Ok. Then I misunderstood the NVidia Driver Release Notes. Is there no 3D TV Mode or similar which you can activate without the emitter?
Here is a statement from the NVidia 3D Vision Sys Req Page:
NOTE:When using 3DTV Play software to connect to a 3D TV, 3D Vision active shutter glasses are not used. Instead the 3D TV manufacturer's 3D glasses are used
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post #433 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 12:55 PM
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Thanks for the feedback Roussi.

But pls uninstall nVidia drivers and take-off nVidia card.

(As for now, we have feedbacks and we know:

nVidia works with or without 3d vision emitter with compatible PJs.

nVidia works with or without compatible 1.4 AVR's with compatible 3dTVs.

So leave your PC just with Catalist drivers and PDVD, uninstall IZ3D.

And please check out:

1) Your Ati card is working with your PJ with DLP Link glasses

and

2)Your Ati card is working with your TV with its own glasses?


Happy new year to you all.

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post #434 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtualizer View Post

Ok. Then I misunderstood the NVidia Driver Release Notes. Is there no 3D TV Mode or similar which you can activate without the emitter?
Here is a statement from the NVidia 3D Vision Sys Req Page:
NOTE:When using 3DTV Play™ software to connect to a 3D TV, 3D Vision active shutter glasses are not used. Instead the 3D TV manufacturer's 3D glasses are used

This is stated on the first post:

Quote:


I don't have nVidia 3D Vision glasses and 3D TV Play SW but i have a 3DTV supported GPU by nVidia. Can i watch 3DBD or 3D video or play 3D games?
Yes you can; if you have any 3D commercial player like Corel WinDVD 10, Arcsoft TMT 5 or Cyberlink PDVD 10.

If you have nVidia kit you will have nVidia 3D vision player SW for free. You will find the SW on nVidia kit CD or GeForce site.
This is an old version of Stereoscopic Player. If you don't have nVidia kit and nVidia 3D Vision SW, just give it a go with Stereoscopic Player's trial version for just playing games.
But neither nVidia3DVision nor Stereoscopic Player will play your 3D BDs.
You will need commercial players in this case.

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post #435 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post

Well there's no specific HDMI 1.4 cable, as long as you use high speed cable then it should work.

I've got an HK receiver, and they suggested that it was the cable length that was causing a handshaking issue, as I had two 10 foot long HDMI high speed cables, but I just received shorter ones (6 feet total run from PC to receiver to TV), and it still does the same thing.

I do have a Samsung TV as well, so that and the ATI hardware sound like the common denominator, but it sounds like we get the exact same issue.

I did discover if I turn on GPU scaling, that it'll display 720p 60Hz content (in Stereoscopic Player, not in TMT5), but for some reason 1080p 24Hz seems to be an issue.

I also see that there's another post on an AMD forum where someone doesn't have it working passing through their receiver.

So, I have to ask... is there anyone with an AMD 6xxx card who has 3D working via HDMI 1.4a by passing it through a receiver?

Yes for me the 720p 3D modes do function properly too. Only the 1080p24 mode has problems regardless which player I use. That also means that the problem is the AMD/ATI driver in combination with the AV receiver.
I have an open support call with Pioneer. Perhaps they get it right ;-)
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post #436 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

This is stated on the first post:

Oh yes. The question from the user was especially about 3D Gaming. I also have a NVidia card in one System but since I got a HTPC with an AMD card I did not test the newest NVidia drivers.
A few months ago the emitter was a must have to activate 3D Vision (for gaming). As AMD/ATI released a solution without the need for a special emitter I thought that NVidia extended there actual drivers.
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post #437 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtualizer View Post

Oh yes. The question from the user was especially about 3D Gaming. I also have a NVidia card in one System but since I got a HTPC with an AMD card I did not test the newest NVidia drivers.
A few months ago the emitter was a must have to activate 3D Vision (for gaming). As AMD/ATI released a solution without the need for a special emitter I thought that NVidia extended there actual drivers.

I can not test it personally since i never play games but you may test.
nVidia says it's gonna work.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-pl...nts.html#3dtvs

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post #438 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

[...]
(As for now, we have feedbacks and we know:

nVidia works [...] without 3d vision emitter with compatible PJs.

I must have missed this part. I am pretty sure all reports were that Nvidia cards would not provide 120Hz sequential *without* the emitter. I did try (before putting in the AMD card), and could not get a 3d output in the 3d stereoscopic section of the Nvidia control panel other than the HDMI 1.4.

May you point to at least one report with successful NVidia DLP 120Hz sequential without the emitter?


Quote:


[...]
So leave your PC just with Catalist drivers and PDVD, uninstall IZ3D.

And please check out:

1) Your Ati card is working with your PJ with DLP Link glasses

and

2)Your Ati card is working with your TV with its own glasses?


Happy new year to you all.

Time permitting, will try. However, again I believe all reports were that the 5xxx cards would not output hdmi1.4 BR. This is why I decided to go this way, with the two cards, allowed by the fact that I have two slots and don't game.

Happy new year to you too! May it bring more technological wonders for us to have hard and good times.
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post #439 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roussi View Post

May you point to at least one report with successful NVidia DLP 120Hz sequential without the emitter?

There must be more but for now:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=317


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roussi View Post

Time permitting, will try. However, again I believe all reports were that the 5xxx cards would not output hdmi1.4 BR. This is why I decided to go this way, with the two cards, allowed by the fact that I have two slots and don't game.

This is what i expected.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roussi View Post

May it bring more technological wonders for us to have hard and good times.

The new year?
Hope yes, hope no (Just last four years: )

Mid-late 2007s: i was busy with HDTV DVB-S2 broadcasting. (the first DXVA consumer VGA cards appeared.)

Mid-late 2008s: i was busy with 2D BluRay playing, re-encoding and bitperfect HD audio streaming (PCM-decoded) over analog or HDMI 1.1 via ReClock+TMT decoders,

Late 2009s: i was busy with free HD audio bitstreaming (non_decoded bitstream) over ffdshow (remember @albain),

Late 2010s i'm still busy with playing true 3D BDs over HTPCs and...

Who knows what's the next?

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post #440 of 1526 Old 12-29-2010, 07:31 PM
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I too am having issues playing 3d blurays... setup is as follows

htpc(ati 6950)>Reciever(Pio VSX-1325)>LG 60PX950

When trying to play 3d bluray through the reciever it says no signal have to double click to get back to desktop. When i connect HTPC to the TV directly it works perfectly. I was using a ATI5770 up till today and i had the exact same issues with that card as well. Called pioneer canada and they told me HDCP issue. Nothing they could do. So i went out and got the new video card thinking it had to be a 1.4a issue with the ati card. Nothing same issue. I have tried both PDVD10 and TMT5. Hope we can get this sorted out.
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post #441 of 1526 Old 12-30-2010, 07:51 AM
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The issues is that your Receiver is not passing the EDID data for your TV to your PC so your PC has no idea that a TV is connected to the receiver.
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post #442 of 1526 Old 12-30-2010, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The issues is that your Receiver is not passing the EDID data for your TV to your PC so your PC has no idea that a TV is connected to the receiver.

I'm highly doubtful of this. I've already compared the EDID data when connected through the receiver and when connected directly to the monitor via moninfo, and it's identical.

The growing pattern seems to be that the AMD cards aren't working with a receiver passthrough, as I've seen posts now with 4 different HDMI 1.4a capable receivers with 4 different TVs, and even different cards within the 6xxx series that just aren't working.

If I had to guess, personally I'd say it's more of an issue with HDCP than the EDID data though.

Edit: Also, forgot to mention that with the receiver in the chain, Cyberlink BD Advisor shows that HDCP fails in its 3D test mode.

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post #443 of 1526 Old 12-30-2010, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

There must be more but for now:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=317


(in response to my request for a report for successful 120Hz sequential from an Nvidia card without a 3d vision emitter)

In both references in post 317 referenced above, I could not find use of projectors (or other 120Hz 3d display), only hdmi1.4 to 3dtv's. What did I miss?

Thanks
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post #444 of 1526 Old 12-31-2010, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
I'm highly doubtful of this. I've already compared the EDID data when connected through the receiver and when connected directly to the monitor via moninfo, and it's identical.

The growing pattern seems to be that the AMD cards aren't working with a receiver passthrough, as I've seen posts now with 4 different HDMI 1.4a capable receivers with 4 different TVs, and even different cards within the 6xxx series that just aren't working.

If I had to guess, personally I'd say it's more of an issue with HDCP than the EDID data though.

Edit: Also, forgot to mention that with the receiver in the chain, Cyberlink BD Advisor shows that HDCP fails in its 3D test mode.
I also had a support ticket with Pioneer Germany for 3D Passthrough problems.
My components are: AMD 6870 -> Pioneer VSX-2020 -> Samsung PS50C7790
They told me also it's a HDCP issue and advised me to reset to factory and rejoin all the components.
In 2D mode HDCP works flawlessly (??!?).
Additionally they told me that the source is the problem (Graphics driver?).
The Pioneer AVR sends the right EDID Infos ("all mandatory 3D formats").
So it should be OK here. 720p 3D does work too. The "only" problem is 1080p24. I've also done an EDID override with the EDID from the TV directly and the problem is still there.
I hope AMD/ATI can fix this problem soon as the AVRs are most likely not the problem.
At NVidia AVRs are already on the supported devices list
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post #445 of 1526 Old 12-31-2010, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtualizer View Post

I also had a support ticket with Pioneer Germany for 3D Passthrough problems.
My components are: AMD 6870 -> Pioneer VSX-2020 -> Samsung PS50C7790
They told me also it's a HDCP issue and advised me to reset to factory and rejoin all the components.
In 2D mode HDCP works flawlessly (??!?).
Additionally they told me that the source is the problem (Graphics driver?).
The Pioneer AVR sends the right EDID Infos ("all mandatory 3D formats").
So it should be OK here. 720p 3D does work too. The "only" problem is 1080p24. I've also done an EDID override with the EDID from the TV directly and the problem is still there.
I hope AMD/ATI can fix this problem soon as the AVRs are most likely not the problem.
At NVidia AVRs are already on the supported devices list

My suspicion tilts towards the ATI card...
I have a Pioneer VSX-32 that works flawlessly with all the 3D stuff I've thrown at it. (Using both TMT5 and PDVD10)
My GPU is a GTX460... a wonderful GPU by the way...
I read somewhere that most ATI cards have issues with 3D...
Hope you get a fix real soon...
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post #446 of 1526 Old 12-31-2010, 10:40 AM
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Are you trying to send it the packed frame 3D format(2 1080p/24 fields in on 1920x2205 frame from 3D BR disk as described in the following link:

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/
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post #447 of 1526 Old 12-31-2010, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

Are you trying to send it the packed frame 3D format(2 1080p/24 fields in on 1920x2205 frame from 3D BR disk as described in the following link:

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/

Yes, via frame packing format.
That was introduced by AMD/ATI with Catalyst 10.10.
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post #448 of 1526 Old 01-01-2011, 12:21 PM
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Sadly it looks as though its an ati driver issue as to why i cannot pass 3d bluray to my tv through my pioneer vsx-1325. I was trying to use a 6950 but it just would not work. I'm happy to say that i picked up an nvidia gtx460 and it works flawlessly with 3d bluray and my reiciver. Able to play 3d blurays and bitstream audio over hdmi to my reciver with no issues. I really wanted to keep my 6950 as i've had ati cards since the 1xxx days but i only have 3 days to return the card. Hopeflly ati realizes its a driver issue and they fix it sooner rather than later.
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post #449 of 1526 Old 01-01-2011, 02:16 PM
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Sadly it looks as though its an ati driver issue as to why i cannot pass 3d bluray to my tv through my pioneer vsx-1325. I was trying to use a 6950 but it just would not work. I'm happy to say that i picked up an nvidia gtx460 and it works flawlessly with 3d bluray and my reiciver. Able to play 3d blurays and bitstream audio over hdmi to my reciver with no issues. I really wanted to keep my 6950 as i've had ati cards since the 1xxx days but i only have 3 days to return the card. Hopeflly ati realizes its a driver issue and they fix it sooner rather than later.

Congrats that you have a working setup now.
I want to keep my AMD/ATI card because of HD Audio bitstreaming.
I really hope that AMD/ATI get a fix soon and I really hope they take this topic serious enough. There should be several users who ran into this problem
as 2010 was the 3DTV year, at least in Germany
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post #450 of 1526 Old 01-01-2011, 02:21 PM
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I was considering going with Nvidia, but didn't want to have to deal with games needing the dongle for 3D play when it wouldn't be used by my TV.

Kind of regretting that choice now though...

XBL/Steam: JHoff80
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