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post #31 of 1526 Old 07-08-2010, 05:13 PM
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sorry for my bad English,

i want to build my HTPC using for i5-661 intel which have gpu card inside and H55 mobo, is it possible for viewing 3D or not? especially combine with nvidia 3d vision.

Because the nvidia gpu card stand alone is not support for HDMI audio such as dtshdma or dolby true hd. It only transfer for dd/dts capable only.
I need a HTPC solution that using hdmi output to transfer either video 3D HD and audio HD
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post #32 of 1526 Old 07-12-2010, 07:17 PM
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Ok so im reading on all these 120hz lcd's and 3d tv's and im wondering the following:

Lets say i decide i want to buy a 120Hz TV, im actually looking at the Sony KDL-60EX700, it is a 120Hz LCD, will i be able to connect my desktop with my GTX 295 GPU and use it for 3D Gaming/Movies using the Nvidia Vision Kit/PowerDVD 10 Ultra?

Nvidia indicates it just requires a 120Hz LCD, i'll be using such an LCD with that TV.

I would like to buy a 3D TV but for the same price of a 55" Sammy, i can get a 60" Sony, im sure those extra 5" are worthy but will it work? Anyone else tried this?
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post #33 of 1526 Old 07-13-2010, 01:18 AM
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For NVIDIA 3D Vision, the display must support 1080p@120Hz video input via dual-link DVI or VGA (HDMI does not support 1080p@120Hz) (or checkerboard 60Hz over HDMI for Samsung/Mitsubishi DLP 3D by TI). If the display is not on the list, it won't work (I don't know why Samsung DLP 3D are not included).

NVIDIA 3DTV Play (driver) supports every HDMI 1.4 3D HDTV (with compatible eyeglasses), of course.
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post #34 of 1526 Old 07-13-2010, 01:09 PM
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If you get the new nvidia gtx460 it has a certified HDMI 1.4a out so it will support all of the 3D tv's and as an added plus it has bitstreaming capabilities, but if you want to use your gtx295 it has to have a dual link DVI or be one of the DLP tvs with the checkerboard 3d
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post #35 of 1526 Old 07-13-2010, 01:48 PM
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BTW stereoscopic gaming over HDMI 1.4a is limited to 720p. For 1080p, you need a 3D Vision ready display...
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post #36 of 1526 Old 07-15-2010, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated the first post with a new section called "Misc Info".


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post #37 of 1526 Old 07-15-2010, 11:26 PM
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The following information would be helpful.

- Among the cards you mentioned (GTX 460 is forgotten; what about Core i3-5xx?), which support hardware decode acceleration for MPEG-4 MVC and which not (VP4: Yes, VP3: No).

- Apparently the CPU selection depends on the above heavily. If GPU offloads MPEG-4 MVC decode from CPU, any desktop dual-core processor should be good for Blu-ray 3D. Otherwise, only Core i5-661? I guess Core i5-530 is enough, with CPU usage ~50%.
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post #38 of 1526 Old 07-15-2010, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought about including the i3, but the cpu is running the graphics in the i5 and i3. So the power of the cpu affects the performance a lot.

I read a page of a article: link. here it says the i3 is slower than the i5's igp.

So while technically the i3 can be included, it's not met my approval until I see some reviews that say it works fine.
I will include the 460.


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post #39 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 12:26 AM
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Graphics core clock: 733MHz vs 900MHz, but that rarely affects decoding. It's 20% fast at best in various benchmarks: compare. So $196 is terribly overpriced vs $113. But let's wait to see...

If you are going to use GT 240 or GTX 4xxx (equipped with VP4 that offloads 100% from CPU), a cheap Celeron E3xxx/Athlon (II) X2 is enough anyway. There is absolutely no need of spending $196 on CPU. From Tom's Hardware:

Pentium G6950 is roughly equivalent to the older Core 2 Duo E7xxx.
LL
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post #40 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 12:40 AM - Thread Starter
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The i5 has Intel® Turbo Boost Technology and a faster Graphics Base Frequency than the i3.

link to turbo boost video showing what it does. What Turbo boost does is it increases the cpu's power so it can run applications that need more power. The i3 doesn't have this and depends on it's stock speed being good enough.


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post #41 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 View Post

The i5 has Intel® Turbo Boost Technology and a faster Graphics Base Frequency than the i3.

link to turbo boost video showing what it does. What Turbo boost does is it increases the cpu's power so it can run applications that need more power. The i3 doesn't have this and depends on it's stock speed being good enough.

Anand's verdict on Core i5-6xx and Turbo Boost technology:

Quote:
The Clarkdale lineup is honestly made up of CPUs that are too expensive. The Core i5 670, 661/660 and 650 are all priced above $170 and aren’t worth the money.

Quote:
Turbo just isn't as interesting with only two cores. With four cores you used to have to make a tradeoff between good 4 and 2 threaded performance, but Lynnfield fixed that. No one really debates single vs. dual core anymore. The single core turbo modes are great, but aren't worth the money. Pay attention to the i3s.

I (and perhaps many people) agree with that.

Of course this is a very general consideration...
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post #42 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 03:07 AM
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FYI CyberLink tells us that Core i3 can decode MVC fine, and the minimum CPU requirement is much lower than Core i5-661 if hardware acceleration is working with a proper discrete graphics card.

From Principles of 3D Video and Blu-ray 3D by Tom Vaughan from CyberLink:

Quote:
Decoding Blu-ray 3D on a PC

While quad-core CPUs can support software decoding of 3D Blu-ray, the optimal solution includes a graphics card or integrated graphics capable of decoding Blu-ray 3D in the GPU. The latest generation graphics processors, including Nvidia’s GeForce GT240, GT340, GT330, GT320, GTX470, GTX480 graphics cards and GeForce 300M series mobile graphics, and systems with Intel Core processors with Intel HD graphics (Core i3, Core i5, and Core i7 mobile) support dual HD video stream decoding. Blu-ray 3D video decoding solutions can be expected for ATI Radeon 5000 series graphics in the future.

Blu-ray player software utilizes these modern graphics processors to decode Blu-ray 3D MVC, resulting in very low CPU utilization and flawless video performance.

You can buy GeForce GT 240 (the best card [in price/performance] for Blu-ray 3D is also forgotten in OP!!) at $60 and a decent dual core processor at $60 (Celeron, Pentium, Athlon II X2), $120 in total. Recommending Core i5-661 $196 as if it is the minimum requirement does not sound right.
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post #43 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't say the parts were the cheapest that would work. For a inexpensive HTPC I would recommend the lowest price Dell Inspiron (Inspiron 560) $449.00, and buying a Blu Ray drive for 70.00 and a Zotak ZT-20404-20L Video card for 98.00. Which is about 620.00 Canadian and includes Windows 7 OEM.


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post #44 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 08:58 AM
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Yup, you didn't say something, but without good explanation, your FAQ would be another source of confusion, unfortunately. FAQ on Blu-ray 3D of a HTPC Forum sticky should include:

- What GPU supports full hardware acceleration for MPEG-4 MVC;
- What's the minimum/recommended CPU in each of the cases: hardware decoding and software decoding.

If you have no hand-on experience, you should cite the authority, just don't write based on your speculation (speculation is OK, but say so, along with the real data).

For example,

Quote:


Which cpu is recommended?
________________________

Intel Core i5 661, AMD Athlon II X3 440 or better models for sw decode, sometimes called "NO GPU, uses the CPU for graphics processing".

Where does "Intel Core i5 661" come from? Is there any reliable data backing up this claim? What about HW mode?
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post #45 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I have included the official specifications with links.

The Tomshardware 3D article mentions the AMD Athlon II X3 440, but no Intel equivalent, so I looked up some charts online and found one saying the Clarksdale 661 is about equivalent to the forementioned AMD CPU.


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post #46 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 10:19 AM
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OK, now I see your reasoning, at least.

Tom's Hardware article, as well as the CyberLink white paper I cited tells which NVIDIA GPUs support hardware decode acceleration for MPEG-4 MVC.

- GT 240, GT 320/330/340 (all OEM), GTX 460/465/470/480: Yes. The keyword is VP4 (PureVideo HD Gen 4), according to Patrick Beaulieu from NVIDIA (this person). 210 and GT 220 also support VP4, but are not good for Blu-ray 3D because of memory bandwidth issue.

- All the other GPUs (GTX 260 up to 295, and whatever else): No.

Currently GeForce GT 240 (< $100) is the best choice for Blu-ray 3D; you can pair it with any desktop dual-core processor for smooth playback. The only issue is non-support for HD audio bitstreaming. A cheaper Fermi card supporting it will come later as well as Radeon HD 6xxx (a new UVD supporting MPEG-4 MVC, and HDMI 1.4a) this fall-winter...

I am sorry for my harsh tone.
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post #47 of 1526 Old 07-16-2010, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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renethx,

Thank you for pointing out VP4. I have updated the first post.


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post #48 of 1526 Old 07-23-2010, 01:10 AM
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Soooeee....

Since Powerdvd Mark II supports hardware acceleration of 3DBD on Intel HD graphics too.

Will I then be able to buy an Acer H5360 projector and DLP Link glasses, to view frame sequential 3D material on the setup ?

Right now I have it hooked up to my Samsung plasma using checkerboard 3D, works like a charm.


\\H8Redv2
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post #49 of 1526 Old 07-23-2010, 02:34 AM
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These DLP 720p 120Hz projectors do not support checkerboard 3D signals; instead they use

- 120Hz frame sequential over HDMI

and work with:

- Either NVIDIA graphics card+3D Vision glasses+emitter+PowerDVD 10 Mark II/TMT3 3D plugin for BR 3D
- Or any graphics card+DLP-Link glasses+a stereoscopic 3D player for HQFS files/DVDs
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post #50 of 1526 Old 07-23-2010, 04:38 AM
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Thougt so..
Think not having nvidia hardware will be a showstopper. Seems like powerdvd looks for nvidia hardware, if you choose 120Hz tme sequential display in the 3D dropdown box.
Can´t remember where I read that...
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post #51 of 1526 Old 07-23-2010, 05:54 AM
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A "120Hz Frame-sequential 3D Display" is a display that takes 120Hz frame sequential video *input* over dual-link DVI or VGA or HDMI (only 720p or lower). This is exactly NVIDIA 3D Vision (-ready display) and this works only with NVIDIA graphics and NVIDIA 3D Vision Kit.

MPEG-4 MVC
-> frame packing 1920x2160 @23.976Hz (decoded by GPU or CPU/PowerDVD)
-> frame sequential 1920x1080 @120Hz for certain PC monitors or 1280x720@120Hz for certain non-full HD DLP projectors (converted from frame packing, with 2:3 pulldown)
-> over

dual-link DVI or VGA for 1080p@120 or HDMI or VGA for 720p@120 (output by a 3D Vision ready NVIDIA graphics card)
-> frame sequential 1920x1080 @120Hz displayed. DLP 3D Technology by TI (checkerboard) is different. You have to select "3D Ready HDTV" in PowerDVD in this case. You can use DLP-Link glasses, NVIDIA 3D Vision glasses (with its own emitter) or any other 3D active shutter glasses (with the matching emitter).

MPEG-4 MVC
-> frame packing 1920x2160 @23.976Hz (decoded by GPU or CPU/PowerDVD or TMT)
-> checkerboard 1920x1080 @60Hz (encoded by PowerDVD or TMT). Note that half of the resolution is lost in this process.
-> over

HDMI 1.x/single-link DVI connection (output by a HDMI 1.x graphics card)
-> frame sequential 1920x1080 @120Hz (decoded by the DLP 3D TV)
-> frame sequential 1920x1080 @120Hz displayed. Interlaced (Interleaved) Polarized 3D Display is another 3D display technology, seen in some Zalman, Hyundai, notebook PC displays. Select "Micro-Polarizer LCD 3D" in PowerDVD.

MPEG-4 MVC
-> frame packing 1920x2160 @23.976Hz (decoded by GPU or CPU/PowerDVD)
-> row-interleaved 1920x1080 @60Hz (encoded by PowerDVD). Note that half of the resolution is lost in this process.
-> over

HDMI 1.x/single-link DVI connection (output by a HDMI 1.x graphics card)
-> row-interleaved 1920x1080 @60Hz displayed. The upcoming HDMI 1.4a 3D HDTV is different from the above two.

MPEG-4 MVC
-> frame packing 1920x2160 @23.976Hz (decoded by GPU or CPU/PowerDVD)
-> over

HDMI 1.4a connection (output by a HDMI 1.4a graphics card)
-> frame sequential 1920x1080 @120Hz (converted by the HDMI 1.4a 3D TV, with 2:3 pulldown)
-> frame sequential 1920x1080 @120Hz displayed. To support frame packing 1920x2160 @23.976Hz video signals over HDMI, the graphics card (GeForce GT 240, GTX 4xx, Radeon HD 5xxx, or Intel HD Graphics) will require a driver update (3DTV Play for GeForce in August, AMD and Intel soon?) as well as a patch to PowerDVD 10 Mark II (obviously).

From a display viewpoint, NVIDIA 3D Vision is the simplest because it does not require extra IC (hence there are several cheaper 3D Vision-ready displays). It requires dual-link DVI however (the reason is unclear as HDMI 1.3 must have enough bandwidth for 1080p@120Hz?), hence does not support HDMI audio at all (use S/PDIF instead ).
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post #52 of 1526 Old 07-28-2010, 07:34 PM
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Interesting stuff, thanks for the info.
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post #53 of 1526 Old 08-05-2010, 01:44 PM
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my current HTPC has a C2Duo E6700 and an ATI 4550.

I currently get pure bitstreaming through reclock over HDMI (per threads here).

Just bought a Panny 58VT25 and stereo clips sometimes play ok, other times they stutter a bit (maybe 720P SbS ok vs 1080P SbS not)

Is the only Nvidia alternative to do better a 460? I don't really want to go back to Optical or analog audio...
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post #54 of 1526 Old 08-05-2010, 03:25 PM
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Every NVIDIA card with VP4 (and sufficient memory bandwidth) supports hardware decode acceleration for MPEG-4 MVC:

- GT 240
- GTX 460/465/470/480
- GTS 440/445/450/455 (September)

All of these support multichannel LPCM, and 460/440/445/450/455 support HD audio bitstreaming. GT(S) 440 is the Fermi replacement of GT 240.
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post #55 of 1526 Old 08-06-2010, 01:58 PM
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This rig is to be build primarily for a dedicated HTPC to be used in conjunction with the rest of my HT.
I play mostly FPS and Flight Sims stuffs.
The display is Mits DLP 73837 with 3dc-1000 kit in coupling with Nividia 3d vision kit.
The listed parts are being shipped as i wrote this.

Mobo=GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU = Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor

Memory =G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ

SSD = Kingston 64gb SSDNow V series (OS & drivers only)

HDD = Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

PSU = CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ...

Video= GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

DVD/BD = LG WH10LS30K 10X Blu-ray Burner.

Case = LIAN LI Black Aluminum PC-C33B ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

OS = Window 7 Ultimate 64

Gen Coupe 3.8 Track w/ bolts-on tune: SRI , CBE

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post #56 of 1526 Old 08-06-2010, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Every NVIDIA card with VP4 (and sufficient memory bandwidth) supports hardware decode acceleration for MPEG-4 MVC:

- GT 240
- GTX 460/465/470/480
- GTS 440/445/450/455 (September)

All of these support multichannel LPCM, and 460/440/445/450/455 support HD audio bitstreaming. GT(S) 440 is the Fermi replacement of GT 240.

I think I will be waiting for the 440s to come out...I can't see moving my watercooled 480GTX to my HTPC anytime soon.

By that time I might have purchased a 1.4 spec AVR as well.
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post #57 of 1526 Old 08-08-2010, 07:35 PM
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A review of a 3-D monitor that has some good info.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3842/a...ook-at-120hz/1
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post #58 of 1526 Old 08-12-2010, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The upcoming HDMI 1.4a 3D HDTV is different from the above two.

MPEG-4 MVC
-> frame packing 1920x2160 @23.976Hz (decoded by GPU or CPU/PowerDVD)
-> over

HDMI 1.4a connection (output by a HDMI 1.4a graphics card)
-> frame sequential 1920x1080 @120Hz (converted by the HDMI 1.4a 3D TV, with 2:3 pulldown)
-> frame sequential 1920x1080 @120Hz displayed. To support frame packing 1920x2160 @23.976Hz video signals over HDMI, the graphics card (GeForce GT 240, GTX 4xx, Radeon HD 5xxx, or Intel HD Graphics) will require a driver update (3DTV Play for GeForce in August, AMD and Intel soon?) as well as a patch to PowerDVD 10 Mark II (obviously).

So do I understand correctly that if I were to wait for a 1.4a display, I could choose between:

- Instant gratification by going with the above solution (with the driver update for the hardware that is available right now). As a downside I would probably be losing out on HDaudio bitstreaming as the above mentioned cards do not have a 1.4a HDMI port and as such are not compatible to run both the HDAudio and 3D signal even if a 1.4a cable is used?

- waiting so I can keep my old system (it's no slouch but no spring chicken either...) and plugging in an ATI HD6000 series card when it gets here (I suppose this will have 1.4a??)

- doing the same but with the nVidia counterpart (when will they have 1.4a cards on their roster?)

- upgrading my system to an i3 cpu/mainboard combo but then my question is: which chipset is slated to have a 1.4a HDMI output?

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post #59 of 1526 Old 08-12-2010, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisTreSs View Post

So do I understand correctly that if I were to wait for a 1.4a display, I could choose between:

- Instant gratification by going with the above solution (with the driver update for the hardware that is available right now). As a downside I would probably be losing out on HDaudio bitstreaming as the above mentioned cards do not have a 1.4a HDMI port and as such are not compatible to run both the HDAudio and 3D signal even if a 1.4a cable is used?

- waiting so I can keep my old system (it's no slouch but no spring chicken either...) and plugging in an ATI HD6000 series card when it gets here (I suppose this will have 1.4a??)

- doing the same but with the nVidia counterpart (when will they have 1.4a cards on their roster?)

- upgrading my system to an i3 cpu/mainboard combo but then my question is: which chipset is slated to have a 1.4a HDMI output?


If you want to connect a HTPC to AVR, then AVR to a HDMI 1.4a display, you will need a HTPC 1.4a AVR (to pass HDMI 1.4a video signals and decode TrueHD/DTS-HD).

HDMI 1.4a + MVC decoding + HD audio bitstreaming solution: GTX 460 (with the upcoming 3DTV Play driver) is the only choice right now. GT(S) 440, the replacement of GT 240, is coming in September (as well as GTS 450). HD 6xxx in November. Intel HD Graphics (Core i3-5xx/Core i5-6xx) is supposed to support HDMI 1.4a video formats with a driver update.
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post #60 of 1526 Old 08-13-2010, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you want to connect a HTPC to AVR, then AVR to a HDMI 1.4a display, you will need a HTPC 1.4a AVR (to pass HDMI 1.4a video signals and decode TrueHD/DTS-HD).

HDMI 1.4a + MVC decoding + HD audio bitstreaming solution: GTX 460 (with the upcoming 3DTV Play driver) is the only choice right now. GT(S) 440, the replacement of GT 240, is coming in September (as well as GTS 450). HD 6xxx in November. Intel HD Graphics (Core i3-5xx/Core i5-6xx) is supposed to support HDMI 1.4a video formats with a driver update.

Thx renethx.
Hmmm so a simple driver update is all that is needed for the H55/H57 chipset to support HDMI 1.4a on currently existing boards. That sounds tempting...
As long as it's no Bios update that is required: I don't trust mobo manufacturers to give you that Bios. Most of the time they just release another board
But from this thread, it doesn't look like Intel is delivering on its promise either...

I think I'll build myself a small new htpc for the living room for a future 3D display there... All I would need is a processor, mobo, some ram and a case (still have a spare ps and hdd lying around)

And for the HT I can simply wait until there is some movement on the 3D projection front and then plunk in a new graph card in my aging htpc
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