FAQ for the 3D HTPC - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 1526 Old 08-13-2010, 06:09 AM
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Hi guys,

Quick question. I have a Dell U2711 ultrasharp monitor. It has a dual-link DVI cable and is capable of displaying 2560x1440. If it has this capability, why wouldn't the panel be capable of displaying 3d using a lower resolution? I can't seem to find the answer.

Do you think in the future there may be hacked firmware updates or that sort of thing to support 3D vision?

Thanks,

Nolie
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post #62 of 1526 Old 08-13-2010, 08:07 AM
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3D video with a "3D Vision ready" display works this way: The player/graphics card sends left- and right-eye pictures in an alternating sequence at a refresh rate of 120Hz (60Hz for each eye) to the display. (Why 120Hz?: To avoid flicker.) The 120Hz 3D display displays a full resolution frame for one eye for a 120th of a second, followed by a full resolution frame for the other eye for the next 120th of a second. A viewer wears active shutter glasses, that are synchronized with the display so that left eye is blocked when a frame of video is being displayed for the right eye, and vice versa.

Unfortunately, Dell U2711 is a 60Hz display natively.
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post #63 of 1526 Old 08-17-2010, 02:36 PM
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Thanks for the response renethx. I guess what I was wondering was since it's capable of 2560 x 1440 @ 60Hz, why can the panel not do a 120Hz at a lower resolution. The issue isn't bandwidth because it's already dual-link DVI and can display such a high resolution.
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post #64 of 1526 Old 09-12-2010, 08:24 PM
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LCD displays have a fixed resolution, and a separate refresh-rate limit, so unlike old CRTs you can't trade off (in most cases, if it were a bandwidth limit you could). You aren't going to be able to drive that Dell above 60 Hz no matter what (to best of my knowledge).
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post #65 of 1526 Old 09-21-2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you want to connect a HTPC to AVR, then AVR to a HDMI 1.4a display, you will need a HTPC 1.4a AVR (to pass HDMI 1.4a video signals and decode TrueHD/DTS-HD).

renthx: thanks for all this great information. I have a scenario i'm sure others are in. I have an older Pioneer SC-07 AVR and don't want to replace it at this time to upgrade to 3D. One of the solutions is the Samsung 7900 BD player with 2 HDMI outputs. 1 for audio, the other for the 3D display.

Is there a feasible option if I want to upgrade my MCE7 system to playback 3DBD and still keep the Pioneer AVR?
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post #66 of 1526 Old 09-21-2010, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Is there a feasible option if I want to upgrade my MCE7 system to playback 3DBD and still keep the Pioneer AVR?

You might be able to demux the 3DBD into two separate video streams, and then use Stereoscopic Player to output them to another format (top/bottom, for example) which doesn't need HDMI 1.4a, though I doubt that's what you mean. I haven't tried this myself, for the record, it just seems like it'd be possible.

But that's not the same as just playing a 3DBD.

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post #67 of 1526 Old 09-21-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

renthx: thanks for all this great information. I have a scenario i'm sure others are in. I have an older Pioneer SC-07 AVR and don't want to replace it at this time to upgrade to 3D. One of the solutions is the Samsung 7900 BD player with 2 HDMI outputs. 1 for audio, the other for the 3D display.

Is there a feasible option if I want to upgrade my MCE7 system to playback 3DBD and still keep the Pioneer AVR?

- Buy a DLP 3D display.
- Wish PowerDVD support converting Fame packing 1920x2160p to Top-and-Bottom 1920x1080p (or try jhoff80's suggestion).
- Wish PowerDVD support a similar option to the Samsung 7900.
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post #68 of 1526 Old 09-26-2010, 06:32 AM
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Just installed new LG drive and PowerDVD9 3D .......

Setup:

ATI 5870-> Onkyo 608 (HDMI 1.4a)
Onkyo -> Mits "converter" for 2009 73" DLP

FYI: PS3 playback is fine

FIrst I can see is that ATI is seeing the tv as the "onkyo".... not sure if thatis OK. Never had a problem
Regular BD playback fine
However 3D crashes

In 3D mode I have chosen "3D ready TV with shutter glasses" (whichi have)

Suggestions??
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post #69 of 1526 Old 09-26-2010, 07:54 AM
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HD 5870/driver does not support HDMI 1.4a 3D video formats.
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post #70 of 1526 Old 09-26-2010, 01:05 PM
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Fix:

Leep the oEM PowerDVD9 3D installed
install the PowerDVD10 Trial
Reboot.
All is fine

The PS3 is 1.3a also. The only time this would matter (with checkerboard too) is if you wanted 1920x1080p 120hz with 7.1.

1.3a has enough bandwish for ANY 3D format EXCEPT when you add uncompressed audio. With the DLP checkerboard you have the same bandwish used as 1920x1080p.
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post #71 of 1526 Old 09-27-2010, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

Fix.

Glad to hear that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

1.3a has enough bandwish for ANY 3D format EXCEPT when you add uncompressed audio. With the DLP checkerboard you have the same bandwish used as 1920x1080p.

Precisely speaking, 1.3 has enough bandwidth for any 1.4a 3D video formats with uncompressed audio (8 ch/192 kHz/24 bits LPCM is only 36.9 Mb/s; that's tiny compared with video bandwidth ~10000 Mb/s). Firmware and/or driver update is still necessary and not every 1.3 hardware allows that. PS3(limited audio not due to bandwidth issue)/NVIDIA(full support) did that. ATI/Intel has not done it yet.

Checkerboard by Texas Instruments is a completely different story. It cuts the resolution of frame packing 1920x2160 in half in a checkerboard format 1920x1080 (so you lose half the resolution) and sends it over HDMI 1.3a devices. TI's checkerboard is not compliant with HDMI 1.4a. It's a pre-HDMI 1.4a method (hence you need a "converter" to use it with HDMI 1.4a player/receiver: converts HDMI 1.4a 3D video signals to checkerboard; PowerDVD directly outputs checkerboard, so you don't need it, of course). HDMI 1.4a transmits the full resolution 1920x2160 = 1920x1080 (Left) + 1920x1080 (Right) without loss.

Frame packing 1920x2160 over HDMI 1.4a devices (lossless)

Checkerboard 1920x1080 over HDMI 1.3 devices (lossy)


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post #72 of 1526 Old 09-27-2010, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

Fix:

Leep the oEM PowerDVD9 3D installed
install the PowerDVD10 Trial
Reboot.
All is fine

The PS3 is 1.3a also. The only time this would matter (with checkerboard too) is if you wanted 1920x1080p 120hz with 7.1.

1.3a has enough bandwish for ANY 3D format EXCEPT when you add uncompressed audio. With the DLP checkerboard you have the same bandwish used as 1920x1080p.

Checkerboard should pass through a 1.3 receiver just fine.. what am I missing here. Does PDVD 10 do the checkerboard formatting itself?

Are you saying you are running PowerDVD 10 with an ATI card in checkboard mode going to a Mits DLP? Am I missing something here. I thought Nvidia was required. Checkerboard should not require the Mits adapter. Fill me in on the exact menu selections.. is this only selectable if you have launched a 3d bluRay from the drive in the HTPC?

Just another blank signature.
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post #73 of 1526 Old 09-27-2010, 02:48 AM
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PowerDVD 10 Mark II supports the checkerboard format: select "3D Ready HDTV". It looks like the latest build supports not only NVIDIA with 3D Vision Kit but ATI (as sjchmura confirmed) and Intel with 3D DLP. This page does not mention the latest implementation of HDMI 1.4a in PowerDVD, however (it works only with NVIDIA as none of AMD and Intel supports HDMI 1.4a yet).

Surely Mits adapter is unnecessary, but if the input signal is already checkerboard, it just passes it through? sjchmura can explain it better.
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post #74 of 1526 Old 09-27-2010, 05:59 AM
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Yes the Mits adapter will just pass through Checkerboard see the following specs:

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/3DA...heet060810.pdf

Some receivers only support with their EDID data and therefore only pass through HDMI 1.4a 3d formats and Checkerboard is not a HDMI 1.4a 3D format.
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post #75 of 1526 Old 09-27-2010, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Yes the Mits adapter will just pass through Checkerboard see the following specs:

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/3DA...heet060810.pdf

Some receivers only support with their EDID data and therefore only pass through HDMI 1.4a 3d formats and Checkerboard is not a HDMI 1.4a 3D format.

I completely get what the Mits adapter does. At this point 1.4x gives me no utility at all. What has me thrown is that PDVD10 with ATI cards will do checkerboard. In other threads they are having trouble getting Nvidia to work let alone ATI. Not that I don't intend to buy a better graphics card but that is a can I would rather kick down the road a few months as we should see very inexpensive Nvidia 4xx and ATI 6xxx cards. I am bitstreaming fine now with a 5450.

I did not see that option in the menus when I was poking around yesterday. I think I have the latest build. No glasses or content until tomorrow, but I guess I need to look a lot harder than I am. I don't really want to buy an Nvidia card or and adpater. I do have a PS3, but an adpater is another $100 that could be better used elsewhere as Comcast in Houston does not yet do 3d and no ETA.

Just another blank signature.
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post #76 of 1526 Old 09-27-2010, 07:11 PM
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This was new info. for me regarding AMD 3-D.
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/14393-...e-3d-standard/
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post #77 of 1526 Old 09-27-2010, 07:28 PM
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Well you can say that build 2113 will do 3d on a 3d ready DLP with an ATI graphics card in checkerboard... sort of.

I have a modest HTPC HD5450 and an E4400 at 2.2 Gigahertz. It does the checkerboard fine.. so 3d as noted above with no adapter. But it absolutely pegs both cores and is jerky as hell. I don't know how much if anythng is happening at GPU, but on the 5450 at least it probably an intel quad core.

sjchmura - can you describe your HTPC? I wonder if just a more powerful AMD GPU will get the job done or do I need to wait for a GT 430?

Just another blank signature.
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post #78 of 1526 Old 09-27-2010, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I have a modest HTPC HD5450 and an E4400 at 2.2 Gigahertz. It does the checkerboard fine.. so 3d as noted above with no adapter. But it absolutely pegs both cores and is jerky as hell. I don't know how much if anythng is happening at GPU, but on the 5450 at least it probably an intel quad core.

Naturally... Radeon HD 5xxx does not support MPEG-4 MVC hardware decoding. Decoding MVC relies on the CPU and E4400 dual-core 2.00GHz can't handle that.

You will need Core 2 Duo E7xxx or higher. Or buy

- UVD 3.0: AMD Radeon HD 6xxx (October-)
- VP4: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460, GTS 450, GT 440 (October), GT 430 (October). GT 240 also supports VP4, but no HD audio bitstreaming.

But if you want to do 2D-3D conversion in PC (of HD contents; SD is easy), you still need a powerful processor (E7xxx or higher) anyway.
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post #79 of 1526 Old 09-28-2010, 07:58 AM
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Going to upgrade my existing Bluray playback HTPC with this simple low-profile GT 240 card from sparkle, at less than $70. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814187103

Because I am using an OrigenAE low profile case, my options were limited, but this card is low-profile, single slot, and cheap. Ideally it would be passively cooled, but I'll just slow the fan down if it is a problem with noise.

So all I have to do is pop the top, slap her in, and reboot. For BD playback, it uses the NVidia chip, so no extra CPU juice is needed.
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post #80 of 1526 Old 09-28-2010, 10:21 AM
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What about the 3D plug-in for TMT3 Platinum? Has anybody had any luck testing this? It supposedly converts standard DVD files to 3D (checkerboard) with the use of red and blue glasses on 2D displays with 1.3 HDMI. I wonder if there is still enough bandwidth to bitstream as well. I was interested in buying the plug-in but just wanted to get some feedback first. I just hat the idea of using TMT as a player in lieu of MPC-HC.
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post #81 of 1526 Old 09-30-2010, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated the first post sections: " Which GPUs will support 3D TVs? I checked the NVIDIA website and the GeForce GPUs do not say they support HDMI 1.4a.", CPU, Various bits of misc info.


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post #82 of 1526 Old 10-03-2010, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 View Post

I updated the first post sections: " Which GPUs will support 3D TVs? I checked the NVIDIA website and the GeForce GPUs do not say they support HDMI 1.4a.", CPU, Various bits of misc info.

Am I to understand from that section that the GT 240 does NOT support bitstreaming of HD audio formats over the HDMI port??

I thought this was pretty much guaranteed over HDMI 1.4? Is there no audio device on the card or something?
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post #83 of 1526 Old 10-06-2010, 11:32 AM
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Hoping someone can help me out with my 3D HTPC setup.

I have a Panasonic TC-P58VT25 3D plasma set hooked to my HTPC which has an ATI 4550 video card. I have TMT with the 3D plugin but it will not play Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs in 3D. I get a message on screen that I need a 3D capable player and TV. Since I know the TV is 3D, I'm guessing it's my video card or playback software.

I have now purchased an NVIDIA Geforce GTX 460 768MB card, and a Pioneer VSX-1120-K receiver (thanks Newegg) in hopes that I will be able to watch this movie in 3D. Well the receiver was something I had been wanting anyway and has 3D support. The only other piece I think I might need to change would be TMT over to PowerDVD 10. Any ideas? Am I on the right track?
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post #84 of 1526 Old 10-06-2010, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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rdjam,

The 240 doesn't have hdmi 1.4. On the PS3 the HD audio is blocked while playing 3D blu ray due to the HDMI being only 1.3, so the 240 only having HDMI 1.3 is also limited.

I'm interested to know if the more expensive cards that only have HDMI 1.3 can play 3D Blu Ray and HD audio. Maybe they can with less than full 1080p resolution but not with 1080p 3D.

S1DIMMER,

ATI hasn't made the patch available for the 4550 to be used for 3D Blu Ray yet.
They say in different articles it may be able to do 3D but no word yet if it can.
So you need a Nvidia or Intel solution for now, or the PS3 or stand alone.

It may be better to wait for HDMI 1.4 video cards so you can play full 1080p 3D and have HD audio.


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post #85 of 1526 Old 10-06-2010, 12:54 PM
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Actually GeForce 210/220/240 etc. support HDMI 1.4a 3D video signals. Nimo and babgvant succeeded in 3D with these cards + PowerDVD/WinDVD + Panasonic VT20/25 HDMI 1.4a HDTV (e.g. read this post).
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post #86 of 1526 Old 10-06-2010, 04:31 PM
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Any graphics card with an HDMI 1.3 transmitter chip output HDMI 1.4a 3D video content othewise cable STBs, Satellite STBs, and the PS3 could not be outputing HDMI 1.4a 3D video.
The question is what Graphic cards have built in firmware (hardware acceleration) to decode the new 3D Blu-ray disks to increase system performance. Currently the GT240 and the GT4xx chips can. I understand that the next generation of ATI chips will also have this ability.
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post #87 of 1526 Old 10-06-2010, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Any graphics card with an HDMI 1.3 transmitter chip output HDMI 1.4a 3D video content othewise cable STBs, Satellite STBs, and the PS3 could not be outputing HDMI 1.4a 3D video.
The question is what Graphic cards have built in firmware (hardware acceleration) to decode the new 3D Blu-ray disks to increase system performance. Currently the GT240 and the GT4xx chips can. I understand that the next generation of ATI chips will also have this ability.

I don't think the GT240 has MVC acceleration. Only the GT4xx can do it.

However, PDVD can do some software tricks to make any ATI 5xxx or nV GT2xx (not sure whether all but definitely 240 and higher) decode MVC streams, albeit with a small CPU usage overhead.

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post #88 of 1526 Old 10-06-2010, 05:35 PM
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so my radeon 4350 isnt going to cut it for 3d is it?

What is a good inexpensive card that will work with my mits and 2.6 Core 2 Duo?

I want to keep the price under that of a PS3 or 3d BRP
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post #89 of 1526 Old 10-06-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowCVL View Post

so my radeon 4350 isnt going to cut it for 3d is it?

What is a good inexpensive card that will work with my mits and 2.6 Core 2 Duo?

I want to keep the price under that of a PS3 or 3d BRP

The cheapest card which will do all that you want (with a little bit of future proofing) will be introduced next week (Look for rumors on the GT 430).

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post #90 of 1526 Old 10-06-2010, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

I don't think the GT240 has MVC acceleration. Only the GT4xx can do it.

According to NVIDIA('s Beaulieu), VP4 can decode MVC. But not every card with VP4 is enough; memory bandwidth is another factor for smooth playback, i.e. NVIDIA recommends GT 240 or higher.

The difference between VP3 (GTX 260) and VP4 (GT 240) is very clear:


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