FAQ for the 3D HTPC - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1533 Old 11-09-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

NVIDIA 3DTV Play (a $40 software piece) does:


- Play back 3D movie files with "NVIDIA 3D Vision Video Player" software (available for free download).

- Convert standard PC games to stereoscopic 3D.

- View 3D pictures with "NVIDIA Photo Viewer" built in 3DTV Play.


To play back BR 3D with TMT/PowerDVD and a HDMI 1.4a 3D display, you won't need it.
Is this confirmed somewhere?

Why does the Nvidia 3DTV Play page say this:
Quote:
WATCH FULL HD BLU-RAY 3D PLAYBACK
Create your own personal 3D theatre experience and surround yourself in the latest Blu-ray 3D movies.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html
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post #1172 of 1533 Old 11-09-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Thoresen View Post

Is this confirmed somewhere?
Why does the Nvidia 3DTV Play page say this:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html

No idea. Believing the manufacturer's website is often a mistake. smile.gif

If you want to play Blu-ray 3D, you will need:

- Hardware: Latest AMD/NVIDIA/Intel (no Celeron/Pentium) graphics card and a 3D display with matched 3D glasses
- Software: PowerDVD or TMT

and nothing more (confirmed by a lot of people).

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post #1173 of 1533 Old 11-09-2012, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

No idea. Believing the manufacturer's website is often a mistake. smile.gif
If you want to play Blu-ray 3D, you will need:
- Hardware: Latest AMD/NVIDIA/Intel (no Celeron/Pentium) graphics card and a 3D display with matched 3D glasses
- Software: PowerDVD or TMT
and nothing more (confirmed by a lot of people).
Yeah, I got it to work now. Without 3DTV Play. Thanks!
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post #1174 of 1533 Old 11-10-2012, 08:43 PM
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I'm thinking about upgrading my video card, it seems it doesn't support 3D blu ray playback but it's listed as supporting 3D gaming. My current cards (2x) are Radeon HD3850 512 MB 256-bit GDDR 3 in crossover. I'm looking at 6xxx or 7xxx series but was wondering if I needed to keep 256-bit or save the money and get 128-bit. I know GDDR 5 should basically double the memory speed and I don't really game anymore. All the games I have are easily handled with my current setup.
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post #1175 of 1533 Old 11-11-2012, 05:38 AM
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Memory bandwidth is not important in 3D video playback. Even HD 6450 (64-bit DDR3) can play BR 3D just fine.

Nevertheless I recommend 128-bit DDR3 or higher for better post-processing in 2D video playback. E.g. HD 6570, GT 430, GT 440 = GT 630. (Or HD 7770 / GTX 650 Ti for madVR Jinc.)

64-bit DDR3 cards are HD 6450, GT 520 = GT 610, GT 620 (the same core as GT 430, but the memory is 64-bit).

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post #1176 of 1533 Old 11-11-2012, 09:12 PM
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Thanks renethx. I changed my AMD drivers to 11.4 and my playback in TMT5 is way better than any of the 12.x drivers I tried. I've read the HD3850 is supposed to support 3D, but I'll have to try some more things to see if it can do 3D blu ray.
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post #1177 of 1533 Old 11-11-2012, 09:23 PM
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HD 3xxx does not support HDMI 1.4a 3D video format (frame packing), it supports the other 3D formats (side-by-side, top-and-bottom, checkerboard) as these formats are within the HDMI 1.3 (or lower) specifications. (OK, I only tested some HD 4xxx, none of them supported frame packing under PowerDVD/TMT.) Of course you will need a good CPU to decode MVC (BR 3D codec). Only UVD in HD 6xxx/7xxx supports MVC.

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post #1178 of 1533 Old 11-11-2012, 09:44 PM
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I've been looking at HD7750 but still haven't decided on 256-bit or not. My CPU is an Intel E8400, I expect it to handle 3D without any problems, though I haven't looked into it specifically. Compared to Assassin's HTPC guide with an i3 with integrated graphics, I think computer should be sufficient. I know my graphics card is a little dated, but the rest is slightly newer. wink.gif
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post #1179 of 1533 Old 11-11-2012, 10:13 PM
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The performance of E8400 is roughly equivalent to the current Celeron G5xx (~$50). smile.gif And they are enough to decode MVC.

If you are going to spend more than $100, then I recommend HD 7770 (as it supports madVR's Jinc). With a newer graphics card supporting MVC decode, CPU is of little importance.

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post #1180 of 1533 Old 11-11-2012, 10:59 PM
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I think that's what I'll be getting. I'm also excited that it will have an HDMI port. For once I won't have to use an adapter off the back of my video card!
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post #1181 of 1533 Old 11-11-2012, 11:05 PM
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Had a plan to get an i3 Ivy Bridge setup for 3d use, but am now questioning how much ill use 3d, so the i3 might be overkill. So might go a much cheaper route and go Amd A6 llano. Will the lowest a6 handle 3d?

The only things i know I really want from this build are 1080p and hd audio (not now, but for future use) and emulators. Should I stay away from the A6 and stick to my original i3 plan?

Also, do I need to specifically find a mobo which has 1.4a hdmi if I do want 3d?
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post #1182 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 02:14 AM
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All Llano APUs (Socket FM1) support 3D (MVC decode + HDMI 1.4a 3D frame packing output), that includes A4-3300 and A4-3400.

All Trinity APUs (Socket FM2) support 3D (MVC decode + HDMI 1.4a 3D frame packing output), except for A4-3400 and A6-5400K. Precisely speaking, A4-5300 and A6-5400K support HDMI 1.4a 3D frame packing output, but do not support MVC decode. Unfortunately CPU part of A4-3400 and A6-5400K (2 core) are not powerful enough to decode MVC.

Any FM1 (for Llano) / FM2 (for Trinity) mb is OK.

Emulators usually require some CPU power. A6-3650 (4 core) or higher (FM1), or A8-5500 (4 core) or higher (FM2) is recommended.

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post #1183 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 07:41 AM
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Thank you. So LLano's are preferred over the Trinity ?
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post #1184 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petes457 View Post

@renethx @roknrol
Thanks for your replies to my post. I have decided to go the easy (and less expensive) approach first. I had a Galaxy 512MB GT 440 card in another computer and decided to do some testing using that and disabled my onboard nVidia 9300 graphics. (Installed latest nVidia drivers 306.xx.) After some initial problems getting the graphics card to work with my Ceton infiniTV tuner, I have it all working now. So I set out to test a couple 3D scenarios - playback of Bluray 3D disk and playback of high quality 3D mkvs. Just to make the testing less complex, I took my Denon AVR out of the testing and just hooked up my upgraded HTPC directly to my Samsung 3D TV (65ES8000).
1. 3D Bluray disk playback. I only have one 3D bluray disk, so my testing is limited. I have the sttings of TMT5 to automatically play Bluray 3D in 3D, straightforward, simple (I think). TMT5 fires up the disk, the top menu starts, I choose play 3D movie - and it plays in perfect 2D. Since this is my first experience with 3D Bluray disks, I really don't know what to expect, but it's not playing 3D, just the 2D movie even though I chose to play the 3D movie. I even chose playing the 2D movie to see if maybe the disk was mastered incorrectly, but it also played the 2D movie. So that experience was just a bust.
2. 3D MKVs. I have several of these now in a section under Media Browser of my Media Center setup. I've always been able to play them directly from Media Center (even with my previous onboard nVidia 9300 graphics), but have to hit the TV 3D button (even though it's set on Auto-detect) and then turn the 3D off when I stop it. So I put two identical copies of one of my MKVs on a USB flash drive: XYZ3DMovie.mkv and XYZ3DMovie.3DSBS.mkv. When I play these directly from the TV USB port, the Samsung TV properly detects they are 3D movies and automatically goes into 3D mode. However, when I put the flash drive into my HTPC USB port and play them through either Media Center or TMT5, they are not detected automatically by the Samsung TV and I have to manually start 3D on the TV and stop it (as before I installed the GT 440 card). Any ideas on why the TV would automatically detect 3D from it's own USB port, but not detect it when played from Media Center directly connected to the TV? I find it strange also that TMT5 doesn't automatically detect that they are 3D, even though I have the settings set to auto detect.
Any help of course would be appreciated.

@renethx @roknrol

SO.......

Thanks very much guys for your help and suggestions on this problem. I was about to try your suggestions and see if PDVD would do any better, but I had pretty much wasted two days and the GT 440 card had to go back to work in it's original computer. When I did that, I noticed a strange anomaly in the nVidia Control Panel. All of a sudden the "Enable 3D Stereoscopic" session was back. When I had installed it for testing in my HTPC, the section wasn't there (the other 3D settings section was there - I just thought it had been removed from the 306.97 driver). I'm thinking what happened is that the nVidia 306.97 drivers were originally installed when I just had the onboard 9300 graphics and didn't completely install all the components (e.g. 3D Stereoscopic) - and when I installed the GT 440, I didn't re-install the driver. Ugghhh.... Anyway, I went back and re-installed the GT 440 card in my HTPC, re-installed the 306.97 drivers - and lo and behold, there was 3D Stereoscopic section to enable. At that point, everything went smoothly and I'm happy to report that TMT5 played my Bluray 3D disk superbly, my Samsung TV automatically did the 3D switching and back to 2D when I stopped the disk. (The TV did NOT recognize my 3D MKVs and do automatic switching when I played them natively through WMC, but I'm guessing if I played them through TMT5, it would.) Not happy I wasted several hours on a problem like this, but such is the way with testing new technologies you're not familiar with.

Anyway, I am now convinced the GT 440 will play Bluray 3D content in my current setup without upgrading to a new i3/mobo combination. However, now the final test is for gaming. As I indicated before, I'm not a gamer, but I'm entralled with 3D graphics and I want to test it and see. I know gaming typically takes a lot more juice and this setup is probably borderline usable, but I want to test and see. So my question is, I now have a new Galaxy 2GB GDDR3 GT 620 card and I have the same Galaxy 512 MB GDDR5 GT 440 card I've been testing with previously. I can't find much info on the GT 620, but I do know enough about nVidia's numbering systen that I just shouldn't conclude that the 620 is more powerful than the 440 for gaming. I'm sure that both cards would meet my basic HTPC needs (including Bluray 3D playback), but which of these cards would be the best for gaming - and gaming in 3D if possible? I'll be testing with Black Ops, Dirt 3, Batman Arkham. Are there any "decent" gaming cards for under $100 (or maybe $150)? I admit I'm a bit biased towards nVidia although I'd like to be open-minded if that's wrong-headed these days.

Thanks for your help. I'm getting there, albeit slowly.
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post #1185 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

Thank you. So Llano's are preferred over the Trinity ?

Well, Llano is AMD's first APUs released in June 2011. Trinity is the successor to Llano (in October 2012). Llano supports 3D in its entire lineup, while only A8/A10 of Trinity supports 3D. There is no big difference between them in 2D/3D video playback. Some advantages of Trinity are

- Socket FM2 will continue to be used in the third generation of APU (Richland) in 2013. So there is an upgrade path in FM2. (FM1 is limited to Llano.)
- New features of Trinity GPU include:
1. Multi-display support (up to 4 displays when using DisplayPort hub), while Llano is limited to dual display. Not every FM2 mb supports triple display, however.
2. Multiple audio stream (up to 4). You have to use DisplayPort to get dual or more, however.
3. Better memory management, that improves, for example, 720p60 and 1080p60 video playback under madVR.

Llano/FM1 mb is now very cheap. So there is no straightforward answer...

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post #1186 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petes457 View Post

Anyway, I am now convinced the GT 440 will play Bluray 3D content in my current setup without upgrading to a new i3/mobo combination. However, now the final test is for gaming. As I indicated before, I'm not a gamer, but I'm entralled with 3D graphics and I want to test it and see. I know gaming typically takes a lot more juice and this setup is probably borderline usable, but I want to test and see. So my question is, I now have a new Galaxy 2GB GDDR3 GT 620 card and I have the same Galaxy 512 MB GDDR5 GT 440 card I've been testing with previously. I can't find much info on the GT 620, but I do know enough about nVidia's numbering systen that I just shouldn't conclude that the 620 is more powerful than the 440 for gaming. I'm sure that both cards would meet my basic HTPC needs (including Bluray 3D playback), but which of these cards would be the best for gaming - and gaming in 3D if possible? I'll be testing with Black Ops, Dirt 3, Batman Arkham. Are there any "decent" gaming cards for under $100 (or maybe $150)? I admit I'm a bit biased towards nVidia although I'd like to be open-minded if that's wrong-headed these days.
Thanks for your help. I'm getting there, albeit slowly.

- GT 610 = GT 520
- GT 620: Core = GT 430 / Memory bit width = half of GT 430 = 64 bit
- GT 630 DDR3/GDDR5 = GT 440 DDR3/GDDR5

So these low-end cards are Fermi-based. Only GT 640 and higher are Kepler-based (the latest GPU architecture). Under $150, GT 650 Ti is the best NVIDIA gaming card. (But if you add $30 more, you can buy much better Radeon HD 7850.)

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post #1187 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- GT 610 = GT 520
- GT 620: Core = GT 430 / Memory bit width = half of GT 430 = 64 bit
- GT 630 DDR3/GDDR5 = GT 440 DDR3/GDDR5
So these low-end cards are Fermi-based. Only GT 640 and higher are Kepler-based (the latest GPU architecture). Under $150, GT 650 Ti is the best NVIDIA gaming card. (But if you add $30 more, you can buy much better Radeon HD 7850.)



So thanks renethx for the excellent information. So from what you're telling me, I should expect the old Galaxy 512MB GDDR5 128-bit GT 440 card to outperform the new Galaxy 2GB GDDR3 64-bit GT 620 card in a gaming environment. Either way, I can tell by your response I'm probably going to be underwhelmed by either card (which I was kind of expecting as a response).

So, if I was to bite the bullet and spend the extra money, it seems from what I read (not only from you) that AMD is ahead of nVidia in price/preformance these days. (Sigh...I just find it hard to support and spend money on a company whose stock price is trading down to $2/share.) But if the card is recognized as superior price/performance technology and will give a good gaming experience for $100 extra over the next 2-3 years, why not. However, as you may recall, I started out thinking I was going to upgrade my current setup to an i3/Z77 mobo. Now, I'm seriously considering spending that money on a good graphics card and keeping my current 3 year old system which is 4GB RAM/Core 2 Duo E8400/ASUS LGA 775 PCI Express 2.0. I notice all the Radeon HD 7850 cards are PCIe 3.0-based. Will this card be "too much" for my current architecture? Should I add RAM? Also, I want to reiterate that the HTPC is 95% used as a Windows Media Center with extenders that provides content throughout the house. I'm intrigued by gaming, but it will be far from the primary app for this computer.

At some point I know you don't know all the answers off the top of your head - it will have to be determined by testing. But I am trying to keep hardware returns to a minimum. Thanks once again - you're a great help.
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post #1188 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 10:34 AM
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A good gaming card is also good for madVR. It depends entirely on the level of madVR algorithm / gaming performance which card to choose. 7850 (dual fan is recommended) is a good choice. 7770 is also a good option if you want to save money. GTX 650 Ti comes between them.

If you are not interested in gaming nor madVR (Jinc algorithm), then just add Radeon HD 6570 or GT 430/GT 630.

Your system is not bad. PCI Express 3.0 is supported only by the latest IVB processor, but it is hardly important in video playback and gaming. 4GB system RAM is enough.

Another point of consideration is AVR: if it is HDMI 1.4a, there is no problem; if it is HDMI 1.3, then you won't get HD audio bitstreaming with Radeon unless you add a "HDMI sound card" (= a cheap Radeon card such as HD 5450).

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post #1189 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Another point of consideration is AVR: if it is HDMI 1.4a, there is no problem; if it is HDMI 1.3, then you won't get HD audio bitstreaming with Radeon unless you add a "HDMI sound card" (= a cheap Radeon card such as HD 5450).

renethx -

Can you please clarify why an HD 7850 won't do proper bitsreaming vs. older Radeon cards? I have an HD 6850 that does bitstream, but was thinking of upgrading the card to a 7850. Does this mean that if I wanted to bitstream, both cards would still have to be in the system?

Also, on a slightly related note, I have an HD 5670 in another system with an E5400 cpu built off one of your older guides. It does fine in every regard except for playing 3d BluRays where it stutters badly with both TMT5 or PowerDVD. Will upgrading to a 7770 beef up the system sufficiently to play 3D? Or am I stuck with having to upgrade the mobo and CPU?

Thanks for your assistance!
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post #1190 of 1533 Old 11-12-2012, 12:13 PM
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Here.

HD 5670 supports Frame packing 3D output, but does not support MVC decode, hence you will see stuttering with a weak CPU. Every HD 6xxx / 7xxx (except for Trinity A4/A6) supports both Frame packing and MVC decode, so that it can play BR 3D just fine with any weak CPU.

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post #1191 of 1533 Old 11-13-2012, 09:38 AM
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I was looking at HD 6870 and comparing to HD 7770 and wondering why they're about the based on specs. If the 6870 is 256-bit (vs 128-bit) with a core lock slightly slower (90MHz) than the 7770 (1000 MHz), yet the 7770 has a listed effective speed of 4.5 GHz and the 6870 is 4.2 GHz. I would expect benchmarks to show the 6870 to be the better card, though.
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post #1192 of 1533 Old 11-13-2012, 10:17 AM
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"Effective" speed is the "effective memory" speed = 4 x (memory clock).

Memory bandwidth = (memory bit depth) x (effective memory speed).

For example,

- Memory bandwidth of HD 6870 = (256 bit) x (4.2 GT/s) = 1075.2 Gb/s = 134.4 GB/s
- Memory bandwidth of HD 7770 = (128 bit) x (4.5 GT/s) = 576.0 Gb/s = 72 GB/s

So the memory subsystem of HD 6870 is nearly twice better than HD 7770. (But actual performance, depending also on Radeon cores, is not that better.)

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post #1193 of 1533 Old 11-15-2012, 06:03 PM
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hello renethx! i am a big disapointed for this reason..

i have epson 9000-onkyo 807-nvidia gtx 660.pc with i7 920-win 7 64 with the latest updates..

my big problem is the power dvd ultra 12,canot play 3d bd-iso.play but canon turn the epson to 3d mode.if press the 3d button to power dvd 12 the image blank for 2-3 sec and turn to 3d mode but the image still to 2d,and the epson dont wake up to 3d.of course the 3d option in epson is on.
the conection is hdmi to hdmi to epson and dvi-hdmi to onkyo because is 1.3

try with cable 1.3 10metter nothing.

try wih cable 1.4 10metter nothing.

try a single output(only hdmi to epson)nothing.

change 306.97 nvidia drivers to 310. nothing.

try wi tmt 5 nothing..

try with core win dvd pro 11 still nothing.

OMG!!FREAK OUT..

if turn on the stereoscopic 3d option to nvidia panel the epson is turn to 3d mode....but this option is must be off.

i try another scenario...i take ps3 slim from my friend,and conected to the epson with my 10meter 1.3.

i try with avatar-avenger-nemo-thi is it,and the epson play 3d immediately with any problem..so the cable is good and they dont have problem.


my opinion is the pc cant send the frame packing,and the epson dont turn in 3d mode...

the second problem is,if play 2d,my onkyo with dvi-hdmi conenect have problem with dts master audio-dolby true hd,and dont lock it.lock and after 3-4 sec is lost.and lock again.....

if conect dvi-hdmi to onkyo,and from onkyo hdmi output send to epson,then wokr perfectly.but this way dont have 3d.

if the dont have the solution to the problem,i think to buy the egreat r6s,and a hdmi spliter 1-2.one hdmi to epson second hdmi to onkyo.this option will work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-Splitter-Amplifier-Multiplier-1-x-2-Female-/370690643477?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item564ee25615
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post #1194 of 1533 Old 11-15-2012, 06:16 PM
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1x2 HDMI splitter wont' work (why). A couple of suggestions:

- Clean install Windows, driver, powerDVD and try.
- Try AMD.

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post #1195 of 1533 Old 11-15-2012, 06:19 PM
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try amd card?i have a 5450 ati.maby try this card for a audio only.

spliiter for egreat not for the pc.
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post #1196 of 1533 Old 11-15-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
if turn on the stereoscopic 3d option to nvidia panel the epson is turn to 3d mode....but this option is must be off.

What does this mean? You MUST turn on Stereoscopic 3D in NVIDIA Control Panel, otherwise you will never be able to send Frame packing. Why must it be turned off?

HD 5450 supports:

- Frame packing
- No MVC decode

But your processor is good enough to decode MVC.

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post #1197 of 1533 Old 11-15-2012, 07:00 PM
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omg!! I thought this option is only for nvidia 3d vision!!!

if turn on this opion, the projector turns to 3d mode.but i dont remember good something is wrong with the movie...i thin turned the resoluton to 720p....i test again and you have news tomorow.thank you reneth!
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post #1198 of 1533 Old 11-15-2012, 07:30 PM
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Yet another "why doesn't it work?" post. smile.gif

Setup:
Computer:
AMD Phenom II X4 925
4 GB Memory
Windows 7 Prof. 32 bit
HIS AMD Radeon HD6450 graphics card, 2 gb ram.

HDMI 1.4a cable out to:

Display: Panasonic Viera TC-P65GT50 (65" 2012 Plasma 3DTV)
Players: TMT 5, MPC-HC or ZoomPlayer 8 (last 2 with MadVR renderer and Lav Filters)

Audio: SPDIF to Onkyo Receiver.

I just upgraded the graphics card from a Radeon 4670, which played blu-rays, DVD's, and MKV HD backups, 720p or 1080P, just fine for a couple of years now. The only reason for upgrading was to enable the playing of BluRay 3D disks, or ISO's of them, from the PC. From reading this thread, I thought the Radeon 6450 would do the job. However, TMT5 is still stuttering badly on 3D blurays, just as it did with the 4670 GPU. The 3DTV detects and switches into 3D mode correctly, but the video stutters very badly as soon as it goes into 3D mode. I downloaded the PowerDVD 12 trial, but it wouldn't try to play my 3D blurays without "hardware acceleration", which seems odd. What am I doing wrong?

Any tips would be appreciated. This has become a challenge. biggrin.gif
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post #1199 of 1533 Old 11-15-2012, 07:53 PM
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TMT5: Are hardware decode acceleration working? Phenom II X4 is fast enough to decode MVC, though. Check CPU usage by launching Performance Monitor.
PDVD: Hardware acceleration always works when you play BD 2D/3D (by PDVD's design) whether you turn on or off it in PDVD's settings.

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post #1200 of 1533 Old 11-15-2012, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

TMT5: Are hardware decode acceleration working? Phenom II X4 is fast enough to decode MVC, though. Check CPU usage by launching Performance Monitor.

I don't really know if it's working or not. CPU usage runs around 50% when TMT5 goes into 3D mode. I can't find a choice in TMT5's settings. Where would I check on GPU usage?
Quote:
PDVD: Hardware acceleration always works when you play BD 2D/3D (by PDVD's design) whether you turn on or off it in PDVD's settings.
PDVD wouldn't even start to play the movie from my BD3D ISO. The message pops up as soon as I try to start the movie from the menu, saying the trial won't play 3D without hardware acceleration. The only button is OK, and PDVD closes. I didn't see anyplace in the settings to turn it on or off.
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