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post #121 of 1533 Old 10-17-2010, 08:33 AM
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I know someone asked about this and I mentioned it wasn't possible, but I succeeded in getting 3D checkerboard output out of PowerDVD without having HDMI 1.4.

It might be because I have AnyDVD installed and removing protection, I'm not sure on that one.

However, I was just able to watch the Monsters vs Aliens Blu-ray in 3D using the checkerboard selection in the PowerDVD options, and then turning on checkerboard mode on my Samsung 3DTV.

As for that beta quad buffer driver, I wonder if it'd work on my ATI 4850. I assume not, but I might give it a try at some point.

I prefer ATI to Nvidia, so I probably won't switch to a 460, so hopefully the new 6000 series will have better support for 3D (though of course, my receiver only has HDMI 1.3a switching, unfortunately. I know there's a specific passthrough mode, but don't think that will pass the signal intact.).

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post #122 of 1533 Old 10-18-2010, 05:52 PM
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1.3 works fine with checkerboard. If you have a sufficiently brawny CPU and ATI GPU it should work fine. I have an i3 with a lowly HD5450 and while it delivers checkboard fine to my DLP, the movie stutters every 5-10 seconds. This is of course better than the 5450 did with an E4500 but I assume a quad core intel is required with such a lowly ATI GPU or perhaps any current ATI GPU. I have a GT430 coming but I am loathe to install it as everything else seems to be working and I hate the idea of teething trough all the new issues a new GPU will bring to see the didly squat content I currently have access to. The PS3 is 1.3 and I am using it with the Mits adapater, it work fine with the PS3..

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post #123 of 1533 Old 10-19-2010, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

1.3 works fine with checkerboard. If you have a sufficiently brawny CPU and ATI GPU it should work fine. I have an i3 with a lowly HD5450 and while it delivers checkboard fine to my DLP, the movie stutters every 5-10 seconds. This is of course better than the 5450 did with an E4500 but I assume a quad core intel is required with such a lowly ATI GPU or perhaps any current ATI GPU. I have a GT430 coming but I am loathe to install it as everything else seems to be working and I hate the idea of teething trough all the new issues a new GPU will bring to see the didly squat content I currently have access to. The PS3 is 1.3 and I am using it with the Mits adapater, it work fine with the PS3..

GT430 does exactly what the Radeon does.. Cyberlink 2113. GT430 has the 260.89 WHQL drivers.

The Nvidia does not bitstream, levels are correct color is completely aborted... bad experience so far with Nvidia, I expect some transition woes but I have gained nothing so far, just went one step back with the bitstreaming and ended up with an unacceptable HTPC with the color issues. The Radeon was visually identical to my CE devices and measure very close to my Pioneer BD-320 with a C5, ChromPure and AVSHD709 patterns.

Other than the lack of cable card tuner, and 3d functionality I was ready to go to a single device.. I should have backed up the PC before I did the unistall of the Radeon.. oh well. I know what tweaks I made to get the levels right on the 5450.

If anyone has any insight on the Nvidia I am all ears.

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post #124 of 1533 Old 10-21-2010, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post

Yes, the max bandwidth of the HDMI standard is 340MHz, but AFAIK chips with bandwidth greater than 225Mhz are not available today.

All formats, 2D and 3D, are well within the 225Mhz limit, except 1080p@120Hz, which requires 297Mhz, within the standard limit, but beyond the limit of today chips.

This is the reason why 1080p@120Hz requires a dual link DVI or VGA and why PS3, with its HDMI-only ouput, can't support 3D games Full HD at 60Hz per eye.


Damn, this complicates my buying decisions once again...
I was on the verge of building a HTPC/Gaming rig hybrid (I can locate this in another room so no noise-considerations), buying the new Denon AVR-4311 receiver and somewhere down the line buying a 3D PJ that would also be usable for 3D gaming as part of a major HT overhaul.
From what I understand of the above, the Denon 4311, while perfectly suited for 3D Blu-ray, would fall short for 3D gaming...

My question then is, what are my options?

- Wait for yet another year until the new receivers come out with HDMI chip updated to +300MHz instead of the currently used 225MHz chips? Not really looking forward to that honestly...

- Or is it possible that a 3D PJ will come out with Displayport support? This way I could use the ATI HD6870 I'm intending to put in the HTPC connected via HDMI to the Denon (which is in turn connected to the HDMI port of the projector) for everything Blu-ray (including 3D) while still being able to game in 3D @60Hz/eye with a displayport connection directly to the PJ and use the HDMI connection that is already there to the 4311 for audio.

- Or maybe the DVI on the HD6870 is dual-link DVI and 3D Pj's exist with dual link DVI as well??
I'll have to check in to that as that seems more plausible


@Renethx: might I suggest updating your first post with the new ATI HD6000 range now that more details have been revealed?
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post #125 of 1533 Old 10-21-2010, 05:35 AM
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3D PJ: which do you mean by this, the upcoming 1080p 3D PJs, or the existing 720p 120Hz DLP 3D PJs?

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post #126 of 1533 Old 10-21-2010, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisTreSs View Post

@Renethx: might I suggest updating your first post with the new ATI HD6000 range now that more details have been revealed?

Which thread? The thread starter is 8:13 and I can't update it.

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post #127 of 1533 Old 10-21-2010, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

3D PJ: which do you mean by this, the upcoming 1080p 3D PJs, or the existing 720p 120Hz DLP 3D PJs?

I meant 1080p 3D PJ's, preferably of the LCOS kind.
This year's PJ's won't cut it, but it would be great to see something like that on future PJ's.
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post #128 of 1533 Old 10-21-2010, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Which thread? The thread starter is 8:13 and I can't update it.

My bad, you've been such a contributor to this thread that for some reason I assumed that you were the OP
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post #129 of 1533 Old 10-22-2010, 01:21 AM
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The only HDMI 1.4a 3D format for games is 3D Frame Packing 720p@60Hz (per eye). In this case there is no problem. If you want stereoscopic 3D gaming at 1080p@60Hz (per eye), then even HDMI ports of the current graphics cards (e.g. HD 6870) can't handle that, let alone those of AV receivers/PJs. In this case you have to use dual-link DVI (or DP?, I am not sure of this) and you will bypass the receiver at all, hence you don't have to worry about the compatibility of your receiver (even a HDMI 1.3 receiver is enough; use the extended desktop mode, one for the projector via DVI, the other for the receiver via HDMI).

It is another issue if 1080p 3D projectors with dual-link DVI will be released. AFAIK SHARP XV-Z17000 is the only 3D projector released in the next year having DVI ports (dual-link?).

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post #130 of 1533 Old 10-22-2010, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The only HDMI 1.4a 3D format for games is 3D Frame Packing 720p@60Hz (per eye). In this case there is no problem. If you want stereoscopic 3D gaming at 1080p@60Hz (per eye), then even HDMI ports of the current graphics cards (e.g. HD 6870) can't handle that, let alone those of AV receivers/PJs. In this case you have to use dual-link DVI (or DP?, I am not sure of this) and you will bypass the receiver at all, hence you don't have to worry about the compatibility of your receiver (even a HDMI 1.3 receiver is enough; use the extended desktop mode, one for the projector via DVI, the other for the receiver via HDMI).

It is another issue if 1080p 3D projectors with dual-link DVI will be released. AFAIK SHARP XV-Z17000 is the only 3D projector released in the next year having DVI ports (dual-link?).

Hi renethx and thx 4 the reply!

When building a HTPC, I build it in the knowledge that a future upgrade is always a possibility but in contrast to other devices, you don't have to replace the entire thing all the time. So if a new graph card comes out with HDMI 1.5 so to speak, the cost of upgrading is negligible compared to having to upgrade a receiver or PJ...

In this particular case my problem would be with the receiver since it is what I would buy before a PJ. Seeing as how I have to spread my purchases, the PJ would come last and if by that time it were to support FullHD 3D@60Hz/eye I wouldn't mind replacing the graph card but the receiver on the other hand...... :-S

That being said, I don't really see anything of the sort on the horizon in the relatively short to midlong term PJ-wise, so you are right and I might as well take the jump now.
It's not as if 3D 720p@60Hz/eye will be a bad thing compared to 3D 1080p@60Hz/eye either

With regards to DP, the latest 1.2 version does enable FullHD 3D streams @ 120Hz and the HD6870 is equipped with two of those
The standard does lack native support for the xvYCC color space though...

If a PJ with a DP1.2 connection or Dual-link DVI should by some miracle happen to come out in the not too distant future, you raise another valid point worthy of consideration that I might as wel buy one of last years receivers with HDMI1.3 (no need to upgrade the graph card or the receiver anymore either. Unless ofcourse by that time there are receivers with DP connectors but I highly doubt that)... hmmmm.. food for thought...
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post #131 of 1533 Old 10-22-2010, 07:38 AM
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DP is basically PC industry's standards. It won't be supported by CE products (including 3D PJs and AVR), at least in the next couple of years. On the other hand, it looks like AMD is interested only in HDMI 1.4a (now) and DP 1.2 (in future) in S3D gaming support. So stereoscopic 3D gaming in a 1080p 3D projector at full resolution may be possible if a projector with dual-link DVI is released and supported by *NVIDIA* 3D Vision and you are willing to buy NVIDIA.

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post #132 of 1533 Old 10-22-2010, 12:36 PM
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To understand AMD HD3D Technology, this white paper is a must read.

AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series Graphics Display Technologies

I found this:


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post #133 of 1533 Old 10-22-2010, 05:05 PM
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Would I be right in sum up AMD's solution as follows?

Blu-ray 3D: Requires HDMI 1.4 and a 6800 series video card.

3D Gaming: Requires 5000 series or newer, and a third party driver, whether it's TriDef or iZ3d, and (finally) utilizes Quad Buffering.

3D videos: Assuming the above is correct, seems to me that Stereoscopic Player's quad buffer output would work best with one of the 5000 and newer cards and Catalyst 10.10?

Edit: It appears Stereoscopic player 1.6.5 adds an AMD Stereo Driver option, though I have no idea if that means that you need the third party driver as well.

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post #134 of 1533 Old 10-22-2010, 06:32 PM
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Stupid question,

3D gaming can display in 3d because of how it is drawn on the monitor. 3D blu's are the same way correct?


You can't emulate a regular blu or any video with 3d vision correct? I am not looking for the stuff that pops out at you just more depth in the screen.


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post #135 of 1533 Old 10-22-2010, 11:24 PM
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As always, it sounds like trying to get stuff to work is way more complicated than it should be with HTPCs. Anyway, I have a few questions which sort of have been answered, but things change with driver and software updates so much with these sort of things and I need just a little clarification. I'm getting ready to get a new display in the very near future and was thinking of a 46"+ LED LCD to replace my tiny 3 year old 37" LCD. I noticed that the 3D LED LCDs have come down to almost the same price so I just may bite on one of them (I really need to check some out better to decide exactly what looks good and has little input lag though). Anywho, down to business now. I already knew that my Sony receiver (also 3 years old) needs to be updated to a newer model with HDMI 1.4 which I wanted to do for some time now anyway. I have a low profile HD 5570 which I just bought within the last 6 months. Are you guys saying that this card is not capable of delivering HD audio and 3D video. It wont break my heart if I had to upgrade that card to a 6XXX series card (I would like something with just a little more ass anyway), but when will decent ones hit the streets though in low profile fan cooled flavors, a year? On the software side, Arcsoft's TMT doesn't do the trick for 3D bluray playback? If that's the case, then what is their 3D plug-in really for then, converting 2D content to a psudo 3D picture. If I'm not mistaken, these newer 3D TVs have that built in I believe. If that's the case, that's going to suck since TMT has been my go-to player for more than the last 2 years for it's ability play just about everything that I throw at it including movie files, video folders, and HD DVDs. Has PowerDVD gotten a lot better since version 7. I had loads of problems with it back then. Now the for final question regarding pc gaming. From how I understand what you guys are saying, 3D PC gaming as of now is exclusively for Nvidia based systems mentioned in the very first post which use the dual DVI set up, or can they be adapted to work somehow with the mainstream 1.4 HDMI displays out now? If they can't, I wont worry too much about it, but would've certainly welcomed it. Sorry for the long rant, but I just want to have all of my ducks in a row if I grab a 3D display. A 3D capable display would be a moot point without a 3D source. TIA.
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post #136 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 07:12 AM
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3D video with HD audio bitstreaming without an HDMI 1.4 AVR?

Guys i don't want to invest to a new generation 1.4a AVR but on the other hand i want to have a look to 3D anyway
The only investment i want to make in the near feature is a 24 inch 3D monitor. (most probably it's gonna be an ACER 23.6" GD245HQ 3D )

I have a 1.3a DENON AVR, it will go on decoding bitstreamed HD audio content over HDMI 1.3.

So i must seperate video and audio.

Video must be streamed via HDMI 1.4a over my nVidia 460 to my future 3D monitor while audio is being streamed over iGPU. (i3/H55)

And in this case i must use a mobo which has support for dual monitor?

And the cabling:

nVidia 460's HDMI 1.4a out > 3D monitor's HDMI 1.4 in,

iGPU's HDMI 1.3 out > AVR's 1.3a input (no AVR HDMI out will be used.)

And setup will be similar to this:





Any other ideas?

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post #137 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 08:09 AM
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@ricabullah

A minor (or major) correction: Those 120Hz 3D Vision-certified PC monitors such as Acer GD245HQ do not comply with HDMI 1.4a. BR 3D playback in the framework of HDMI 1.4a sends frame packing 1920x2160 video signals @24Hz to a HDMI 1.4a display, then the display encodes video to 120Hz frame sequential (or whatever format the display's 3D technology supports) internally and displays 3D. On the other hand Acer GD245HQ accepts 120Hz frame sequential 3D video signals directly from PC over dual-link DVI (as HDMI does not have enough bandwidth for 1920x1080@120Hz; why).

You can use the extended desktop mode for BR 3D in GD245HQ + HD audio bitstreaming in a HDMI 1.3 AVR using PowerDVD with no problem. As GTX 460 supports hardware decoding MPEG-4 MVC, CPU can be virtually anything, so is the motherboard (the only requirement is a PCI Express x16 slot). A member did exactly the same successfully.


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post #138 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 09:34 AM
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Rene, thx for the response.

That is what i suspected since i've never found any HDMI 1.4 spec anywhere for Acer monitor.

Then i think investing to a 3D HDMI 1.4 compliant low-budged (relativaly) 200 Hz TV would be a better choice?

And without an 1.4a AVR (for the time being) i will start with extended desktop mode as i pointed in my previous post.

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post #139 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 09:47 AM
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Of course HDMI 1.4a HDTV is better for a home theater (much larger display area), and you can use any GPU (Intel Sandy Bridge in January 2011, AMD HD 6000 Series, or NVIDIA). But you have to pay a lot more. You should be able to use a HDMI 1.3 ARV for HD audio bitstreaming in the extended desktop mode (at least with NVIDIA).

Another cheaper choice is a 720p 120Hz DLP projector such as Acer H5360. The screen size can be much larger, say 100". NVIDIA (with 3D Vision Kit) and AMD HD 5xxx/6xxx (with DLP-Link glasses) work. Use the extended desktop mode for HD audio bitstreaming. The same member's experience

and Acer H5360 thread.
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post #140 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 10:15 AM
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Thanks for the valuable recommendations again.

But i suppose this dual display solution seems to me better:

1) HD audio bitstreaming over iGPU to 1.3 AVR (HDMI > HDMI),
3D video streaming over nVidia HDMI1.4 to HDMI 1.4 compliant TV/PJJ

Comparing with:

2) HD audio streaming over nVidia HDMI 1.4 to 1.3 AVR (HDMI > HDMI)
nVidia's DVI to HDMI 1.3 compliant monitor. (DVI to HDMI)

What's your opinion on seperating GPUs as well?

nVidia's GPU will be busy with 3D video only while onboard iGPU is interested with only audio bitstreaming?

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post #141 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 10:20 AM
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In my experience, PowerDVD does not support dual display with two different GPUs, one GPU for video, the other for audio. (You can try 2D case.)

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post #142 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

In my experience, PowerDVD does not support dual display with two different GPUs, one GPU for video, the other for audio. (You can try 2D case.)

Yeah, bad news is even 2D doesn't bitstream HD over PDVD 10 with two different GPUs selected. (no third option at all.) Thanks.

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post #143 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 02:10 PM
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2D over multiple displays using the same GPU. (nVidia 460)





And i can get HD audio bitstreaming with PDVD 10:



nVidia 460's DVI output to TV's HDMI input via a DVI to HDMI cable,
nVidia 460's HDMI output to AVR's HDMI input via an HDMI to HDMI cable. (DENON 1910)


rene, have you had any experience with different GPUs in extended mode over WDVD 10?

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post #144 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

have you had any experience with different GPUs in extended mode over WDVD 10?

No. But I would be extremely surprised if WinDVD or TMT supported two GPUs, one for video only, the other for audio only. (Yup, TMT did not support it last time I tried.)

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post #145 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

No. But I would be extremely surprised if WinDVD or TMT supported two GPUs, one for video only, the other for audio only. (Yup, TMT did not support it last time I tried.)

And so; here is the good news: (2D for now)







BTW, Corel WinDVD 10 version is 10.0.5.544.14934.

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post #146 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 06:36 PM
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WinDVD 2010 has many surprises.

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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post #147 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx
No. But I would be extremely surprised if WinDVD or TMT supported two GPUs, one for video only, the other for audio only. (Yup, TMT did not support it last time I tried.)

I doubt TMT does either, but couldn't you just select which HDMI audio device to use from their drop down menu instead of trying to do the whole extended desktop thing?
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post #148 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 07:27 PM
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Separate video and audio have been done for some time. If you mean audio out and video out separate gpu's ( display 1 to AVR and display 2 to TV) while both displayed, then you have extended mode and should easily work.

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post #149 of 1533 Old 10-23-2010, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

To understand AMD HD3D Technology, this white paper is a must read.

AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series Graphics Display Technologies

I found this:



I wonder why the Mitsubishi 638 series is not supported. I could get a good deal on the 73" at the moment.
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post #150 of 1533 Old 10-24-2010, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

(yup, tmt did not support it last time i tried.)

confirmed

Finally the only player which has passed the multiple GPU streaming test is WinDVD 10.

Chronical Tester
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